this needs to be discussed

[Loriel]

Perhaps CJ is not responding to threads like this because, apart from having the most meaningless title imaginable (It needs to be discussed? Seriously? Why would it have been posted on the forum otherwise), it could not even go through two pages before you jerks went for each other's throat instead of contributing~

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Yes, it was getting rapidly derailed.

I'd rather discuss it privately with you (you're not currently logged into your AIM SN...). Long and short of my response to your suggestion is that you have to consider a hierarchy of long term goals, and the scope of your suggestion ignores some greater priorities (or atleast from my perspective they're greater).

i'd be more than happy to discuss it with you on AIM (my computer likes to randomly restart because of some hardware issue than i'm too poor to fix, so i don't realize when it happens sometimes, and forget to log back onto AIM)

Originally Posted by Clockwork

I would love to work on a server where a great bunch of developers worked, and would be honored to work with them, but it's not so much starting it as it is getting people away from what they are already doing.

I would love to invite everyone to work on Symphonia with me and the people there, but I'm sure Ziro would rather like it if people came and helped him on Maloria, and jerret (maybe... xD ) would love if people came and helped him on zodiac v2...

Aside from that though, if I had the money I would get another server and make it available for everyone to work upon.

Though, I don't really like the idea of another classic server XD there's only so many ways you can spar when you get bored of finding hearts.

Rpg = win. Get bored of grinding? Go do some quests, do some work for money, go pk, go level up your fishing or your mining... go explore area's, search for new holes, look for hidden items...RP....

yes it is a problem to pull players away from what they are working for, and i understand that people already have prior projects and promises. but not everyone is working on something, and i think others would be able to either pull away from their current projects to work on a graal revival, or multitask both. as for a server, i could post up the money for one if things looked like it was really happening (and for whatever reason people didn't want to pony up the cash) but that really isn't the important part. testbed is already basically a server like that, but strictly for scripting. it has to be specific, and it has to be well thought-out

as for RPG vs classic servers...it's not that all there is to do is find hearts and what-not, it's that people have not made good enough quests for it. the fun part of zelda was the multiple quests to acquire more items, not hearts. people are forced to have quests on their server (which i dislike sometimes) and so it's easiest just to throw up some mazes and boss-NPCs and put a heart at the end of the road. UN is a stellar example of this, where the quests have no actual meaning other than making you do stuff at the beginning, which is useless and boring, and has no replay value

for classic quests to work, they have to enable to let the player do more afterwords or before doing the actual quest. a quest shouldn't end once you get the heart piece - it should give you the heart while in addition pulling you into another quest, job, mini-game, etc. sure a few quests can be single-minded loot acquiring missions, but they should be at the start of the server to help give newbies a feel for the system; not the entire way through. it's sad that you find classic playerworlds so typical and boring - it's disappointing that the current classic players are typical and boring

Originally Posted by Loriel

Perhaps CJ is not responding to threads like this because, apart from having the most meaningless title imaginable (It needs to be discussed? Seriously? Why would it have been posted on the forum otherwise), it could not even go through two pages before you jerks went for each other's throat instead of contributing~

i made the title that way because i have tried to make this thread before and it was closed, and others have made this type of thread before, and it was closed. and this is a touchy topic - of course we are going to argue over things, it's natural. it shouldn't dissuade you from contributing to the topic though. as for people from CJ not posting - i highly doubt it's because we are arguing

[Crono1508]

Want to make a new movement? What to get their attention? Stop logging on Graal, everyone.

[Switch]

Originally Posted by Crono1508

Want to make a new movement? What to get their attention? Stop logging on Graal, everyone.

THE APOCALYPSE! IT IS NEAR!

Boycott/Revolt = Instant win. Now learn math.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Crono1508

Want to make a new movement? What to get their attention? Stop logging on Graal, everyone.

how do we even organize that, or get the people who don't post or view the forums to get in on it, or understand why we're doing it in the first place?

the very lack of seriousness by certain members of the forum also adds to this problem. it discredits the rest of us who can take it seriously, since then the "thread is ruined"

[Darklux]

Originally Posted by Hiro

how do we even organize that, or get the people who don't post or view the forums to get in on it, or understand why we're doing it in the first place?

the very lack of seriousness by certain members of the forum also adds to this problem. it discredits the rest of us who can take it seriously, since then the "thread is ruined"

They will laugh that we wasted a day of our gold subscription.

@ Stephen:
People are moaning that their favorite game is being ruined by the management.
Of couse: We can develop better servers, we can tell friends about it, we can play it. But we can do nothing about the outside marketing and about graal shrinking every day.
There is no roadmap, no announced upcoming features, no real development on client, server and especially the devtools.

If the management is not willing to invest more time or time at all: close it down or lower gold subscriptions, so that it only covers hosting costs - because:
Are we men't to pay for our own work, while the mgmt relaxes in their seats and laugh? They are certainly doing no noticeable work at the moment.

I understand that most parts of graal are developed by the community, but they should atleast work on their turf, too: Client updates, upcoming features, new concepts to fetch more players, better devtools - and no scam, as it seems to be at the moment.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Darklux

They will laugh that we wasted a day of our gold subscription.

@ Stephen:
People are moaning that their favorite game is being ruined by the management.
Of couse: We can develop better servers, we can tell friends about it, we can play it. But we can do nothing about the outside marketing and about graal shrinking every day.
There is no roadmap, no announced upcoming features, no real development on client, server and especially the devtools.

If the management is not willing to invest more time or time at all: close it down or lower gold subscriptions, so that it only covers hosting costs - because:
Are we men't to pay for our own work, while the mgmt relaxes in their seats and laugh? They are certainly doing no noticeable work at the moment.

I understand that most parts of graal are developed by the community, but they should atleast work on their turf, too: Client updates, upcoming features, new concepts to fetch more players, better devtools - and no scam, as it seems to be at the moment.

completely agree. having rights to the playerworld you made is not comparable to how much money the owners are making off it. not that it's a terrible deal, it's just not fair. the people upstairs have to keep up their end of the bargain - advertisements, updates, information announcements, and help to the players that need it. this may not be the real motivation, but it seems that they want to work on other aspects of their business as we keep the core of their business operating - and we get practically nothing in return

[Darklux]

Originally Posted by Crono1508

Want to make a new movement? What to get their attention? Stop logging on Graal, everyone.

I think having a signature picture helps a better way.
Just copy it! If someone could help me with a better version of it, youre welcome

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Darklux

I think having a signature picture helps a better way.
Just copy it! If someone could help me with a better version of it, youre welcome

i'll try it out, whats the harm of a signature?

even still, i think the answer needs to come from us, because we are more reliable

[Draenin]

You guys are the cancer that is killing Graal. How about inviting more people to it instead of driving them away?

Do something constructive, not destructive. You think your idiotic signatures are going to suddenly usher in change? Get real.


Instead of griping about how there's nothing good about Graal, you could be making things that are good. For example, Mallard (Drakilor_P2P) made a particle editor that anyone can use to instantly generate code for particle effects. That's a tool that's good for the community. What have you contributed, lately?

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Draenin

You guys are the cancer that is killing Graal. How about inviting more people to it instead of driving them away?

the people i have invited told me the game sucks, and that they would rather play WoW or some other 3D MMO. i showed them every single server. the only interesting part they liked about it was the customization, and they liked watching me spar - they weren't very good at it themselves

honestly, it's developers not doing anything, and the upper tier of graal staff that are killing graal

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Hiro

honestly, it's developers not doing anything, and the upper tier of graal staff that are killing graal

You need to realize that that the higher-ups have left it mostly in our hands. They can't swoop down and make miracles every day for every server.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Draenin

You need to realize that that the higher-ups have left it mostly in our hands. They can't swoop down and make miracles every day for every server.

hence the purpose of this thread?

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Hiro

hence the purpose of this thread?

Yeah, see, that's the problem. You spend your days waiting for miracles to happen, and it's not their job to do your work for you.

You need to realize that, despite the fact that you pay to play, Graal Staff owes you nothing. People pay for development space (servers) and to be able to interact with the work of others. That, if you ask me, should be enough. Updates will come when they can. The best anyone can do is make good use of what they've got.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Yeah, see, that's the problem. You spend your days waiting for miracles to happen, and it's not their job to do your work for you.

You need to realize that, despite the fact that you pay to play, Graal Staff owes you nothing. People pay for development space (servers) and to be able to interact with the work of others. That, if you ask me, should be enough. Updates will come when they can. The best anyone can do is make good use of what they've got.

I wonder why successful games don't adopt such a foolproof system.