Which way now?

[Bell]

While I fully expect this to fall on empty ears I will say it anyway. Enough is enough, this infernal bickering is to end here and now. (Too bad thats actually an impossible feat to accomplish.) For the sake of Classic's future, I have put it as Under Construction and will remain in full control of the server until such time as its ready to be rereleased. This was done so that focus will remain solely on development alone and we stop wasting time worrying about GC's, GP's, FAQ's and Managers. I have made myself deadly clear to everyone involved in the restoration of Classic that nobody is beneath my removal of them. I have flat out said "If you don't have the time, willpower or energy to contribute then get out so someone else can."

While Thor and Storm are still the official managers they are still both having to answer to me. If they don't produce one or both of them will be gone. I will not micromanage but their sole purpose is to formulate a plan and implement it. I will not be manipulated by well thought out but empty promises. There will be no current administrators kept in their positions due to their time on the server. Each and every one of them have agreed to step aside if they were holding back any progress and not contributing to the server moving forward. If I have to, or if they feel there is a need, I will make the server staff only in order to keep things moving in a forward pace so the development staff is not having to respond to complaints of no visible changes.

Its already been decided that the server needs to be smaller to start out. That those areas first reintroduced should be devoid of empty space with nothing to do but wander aimlessly hacking bushes. Do not expect to see Classic restored in some miraculous timeframe of 2 weeks. Its not going to happen and instant gratification is not going to benefit the server in the long term anyway. Terezal pretty much hit it on the head when he said

Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin

A few of us foresaw this turn of events (ie: Classic as a server beyond fixing/redeeming). It's something of a vicious cycle. Lack of desirable content and/or player connections cause players to migrate to another server or leave Graal altogether, which in turn feeds that same fire. Classic itself didn't evolve disasterously; it was neglected as far as shaping where it should have headed. In my opinion, it was a cancer. It grew and grew with no beneficial or positive guidance and direction. The whole "too many chiefs and not enough indians" consistency also had a vastly negative impact on the server, as well as people who wanted to be the Jesus of Classic in its slump for the personal recognition. If those negative factors can be gutted out and avoided completely, the server itself, no matter where it's headed, has a chance of coming back strong.

Its time to put aside personal grievances and work toward a common goal. Bring back the server that was the flagship of Graal. One that included exploration, quests, guild rivalries and community.

One last thing, you cannot have a pre npc server. Its not going to happen, it won't be supported by Stefan so forget it. Those days are gone.

[MysticX2X]

I love how people think being a manager of a server like Classic is such an easy case. There is soooo many differing thoughts/arguments of where Classic should go, and in the end, I'm scared Classic might fall in the wrong hands of corruption.

Thor has been Manager for 3 months, and dev for a good while before then. Instead of placing the blame on Thor, why don't you place it on Master Storm? He is currently not at the necessary qualities to be a manager, and should step down to developer considering he is 85 percent responsible for where Classic is now. As for Thor, I'd still give him a chance. Thor has had quite a few ideas including this one, since he started being Manager, which no one really wants to fathom about. He's been busy temporarily for the last bit, but still manages to come on almost every night. I think DC was overexaggerating both the managers not helping in the quest. Usually it's Master Storm I have to wait on to finish something. I don't think replacing Thor would be the best solution for now. UC is probably the best time to turn Classic around completely since it was Master Storm who is currently the person who arbitrates what can happen on his dev server, and now big changes can happen on the server itself, then the dev server. This is also the chance to revive GC and change it around, so no it should not only be for the development purposes as GC was entirely ****ed before. Why am I this mad at storm? He hasnt logged on in a week for ****s sake.

Also, I want to see where these "fresh new set of developers" fall from. That's such a flawed logic because you won't even find a this new set of developers looking at Classic's condition.

This is

[jorollychu]

all us skilled developers decided **** off we aren't helping if you dont let us LOL and also i've got a restraining order against me on classic. i'm gonna commit my dev skills to vampiro.

[BlackSolider]

We're never going to have a large, super-brilliant dev team. What we need is a committed, efficient dev team that actually gets work done in a decent amount of time. I don't expect miracles or monuments, but I do expect assembly line-like production that keeps churning out decent work.

[Terazel Tenjin]

Originally Posted by Bell

Its time to put aside personal grievances and work toward a common goal. Bring back the server that was the flagship of Graal. One that included exploration, quests, guild rivalries and community.

One last thing, you cannot have a pre npc server. Its not going to happen, it won't be supported by Stefan so forget it. Those days are gone.

I'm glad that you finally took the appropriate action to push the focus of the server itself to the top. I think one of the biggest problems as far as player-wants is that there are people who want to see the past, the people who want to maintain the status quo, and the people who want the server to evolve beyond the original. Putting the server in UC status would hopefully allow each option to be explored to see what would work and what wouldn't, without excessive interference. And yes, some of us older players won't ever see the mental utopia of Classic of the Old again. It was more than just the server, as many people have pointed out before. I think it's time that management (current or future) take the server to the next level, take some chances, and throw in stuff that's out of the "Classic" norm. Tyhm took that plunge before despite criticisms and oppositions, and in the end he's remembered as one of our greatest.

What I would like to see is more focus on warfare that would become player-sustaining to a degree. Not exactly what was thought up for the original Nations and the attempted Nations revival, but something different and less complex. Territories being the incentive for groups to band together to defend and gain, while still maintaining the staple diet of quests and traditions such as movement and weapons. Gladius' idea about focus on different areas would fit right into a territories kind of gameplay; perhaps giving players more of an identity beyond guilds and into cities they occupy and call home (as Avalon was mine and Kraken's, among others).

To that end, I feel that the focus on GC in the past became detrimental to the server. As the original GC Admin, the goal I had laid out before was to use events (in coordination with LAT) to provide extra activities and GC-managed/ran interactive mini-quests to keep the population entertained, involved, and active while LAT rolled out their masterplan of NPCWs, quests, and new areas to explore piece by piece. It was never meant to be the pillar to hold up the server.

That's just what I'd personally like to see and what would bring ME back as a regular. Players really need to figure out what would retain them to the server and what they want to see/do in the long run.

[BlackSolider]

Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin

I'm glad that you finally took the appropriate action to push the focus of the server itself to the top.

I'm glad as well.

Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin

What I would like to see is more focus on warfare that would become player-sustaining to a degree. Not exactly what was thought up for the original Nations and the attempted Nations revival, but something different and less complex. Territories being the incentive for groups to band together to defend and gain, while still maintaining the staple diet of quests and traditions such as movement and weapons. Gladius' idea about focus on different areas would fit right into a territories kind of gameplay; perhaps giving players more of an identity beyond guilds and into cities they occupy and call home (as Avalon was mine and Kraken's, among others).

I like this thought, as for a while I've tried to figure out how to make guilds want to leave their protective forts and go and capture stuff. Places like MoD fort are obviously capturable, but unless a guild goes there and masses "we have mod fort," it is never used. Even then, capturing it gains you nothing; no bonus, no reward outside of some shallow sense of satisfaction. I don't know exactly what kind of reward could be offered for capturing territories, but I think it would help promote guild activity. Likewise, guild gates need to be destroyable, but only when 3 or more members of a guild are online (capturing a base with no online members is kind of lame.) A bonus for capturing enemy bases would be useful as well, though again I don't know what it could be.

[Galdor]

First of all delete the new quests they are horrible, same goes for the bosses.
Who came up with that stuff? X.x

Take back the old favorite quests (the ones people enjoyed the most) and then
make new quality quests xD come up with fun items to collect add some
secrets every here and there (some might lead to quests maybe) that could
make the game more interesting.

Also make use of the tileset make a thought out desert place, lava place ect
for variation with custom baddies and monsters, use Draenins guide if you cant
think of anything decent http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/blog.php?b=56

[Bell]

One problem I've seen is past dev admins have actually tried to make too much structure for guilds. What happened to the days where guilds took things into their own hands. They needed no incentive to take over anything. They would just decide one day that level 14 for example was theirs and destroy anyone that happened to wander into their territory.

Sort of reminds me of toys, they've evolved to eliminate the use of imagination. Instead of a player using their imagination to do something, they want it all layed out for them with a set of rules. There was never an additional incentive to take over any fort. The simple fact that they could take it and hold it while constantly complaining about lamers was enough to entertain a guild or two for hours on end. The flag said who owned it last and if a guild didn't like that they would take it away from them and brag about it so they'd come try to take it back.

[MysticX2X]

Guild incentives are definitely a must. I'm sure it will be a looked at issue during the whole UC era. I was interested in brainstorming some actual ideas with guild territories. I'll post it when I sort of have a somewhat concrete idea.

Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin

To that end, I feel that the focus on GC in the past became detrimental to the server. As the original GC Admin, the goal I had laid out before was to use events (in coordination with LAT) to provide extra activities and GC-managed/ran interactive mini-quests to keep the population entertained, involved, and active while LAT rolled out their masterplan of NPCWs, quests, and new areas to explore piece by piece. It was never meant to be the pillar to hold up the server.

The problem is that there is only so much people can do until they want events. With the community low in graal, any events team can't truly just fill in the hole. I don't think GC, or any events team, can manage to be a complement to the server's enjoyment rather than just be part of the features the server has to offer. Maybe that might be possible when there is tons of new quests/miniquests.

Maybe one day that might be possible when the marketing plan of Graal actually changes.

[BlackSolider]

@ Bell.

I suppose early on in my graal "career" I would be syked to attack a fort that belong to another guild just for the hell of it. Of course, I was in my early teens at the time (I started in 02.)

Now adays I find myself less motivated to go and do stuff without there being a purpose. I'm almost 19 now (july 5th, woot,) so maybe it's due to being older. From what I've seen, most people who continue to play Classic (or at least have played during the past year or so) are 17+, not 14-17. Looking at real life, 14-17 are junior high/high school years where people randomly doing things for the hell of it is pretty common. But once you get past the age of 17, doing things for the hell of it doesn't fly as much. Personally, I like getting something out of what I do. So when I go to take MoD fort from another guild, I would like to get some kind of reward out of it other than now controlling the fort which I will now have to spend the next hour defending with a plethora of s key bashing.

Maybe that's just me, idk. But from what I've seen, Classic's (former?) playerbase is 17+ and therefor looks for a little more structure/reason than perhaps playerbases back in the day.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

@ Bell.

I suppose early on in my graal "career" I would be syked to attack a fort that belong to another guild just for the hell of it. Of course, I was in my early teens at the time (I started in 02.)

Now adays I find myself less motivated to go and do stuff without there being a purpose. I'm almost 19 now (july 5th, woot,) so maybe it's due to being older. From what I've seen, most people who continue to play Classic (or at least have played during the past year or so) are 17+, not 14-17. Looking at real life, 14-17 are junior high/high school years where people randomly doing things for the hell of it is pretty common. But once you get past the age of 17, doing things for the hell of it doesn't fly as much. Personally, I like getting something out of what I do. So when I go to take MoD fort from another guild, I would like to get some kind of reward out of it other than now controlling the fort which I will now have to spend the next hour defending with a plethora of s key bashing.

Maybe that's just me, idk. But from what I've seen, Classic's (former?) playerbase is 17+ and therefor looks for a little more structure/reason than perhaps playerbases back in the day.

True enough, I spose you're right. I'm not much for button smashing these days myself. Keep in mind though that the focus is not only to retain old players but to encourage new players when considering Classic's needs.

[BlackSolider]

Too true, but I don't think graal overall is attracting too many new players these days, especially with games like WoW and Warhammer online out.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Too true, but I don't think graal overall is attracting too many new players these days, especially with games like WoW and Warhammer online out.

Regardless, they still have to plan for it. All of you are going to continue to grow older and eventually leave.


Any comments about why I'm still here and I'm gonna slap the hell out of you.

[maximus_asinus]

Oh Bell, we know you love us too much to leave.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Bell

Regardless, they still have to plan for it. All of you are going to continue to grow older and eventually leave.


Any comments about why I'm still here and I'm gonna slap the hell out of you.

But you're still here.