Just close Graal.

[WaDaFack]

Just close Graal, its going on a HUGE downfall. There isn't anything you can do about anymore.

WHOs fault is this?
The globals and Stefan FAILED to cooperate, and did not listen to anyones opinion. Bell the Player World Administrator had a GREAT idea of downsizing Graal so it would be more like 5 servers, unstead of a million. But nope, globals thought they can handle things on there own, guess not.

WHAT is causing this?
Stefan, and unixmad. Stefan for not being loyal enough to Graal, and unixmad for everything being overpriced. I got a bajillion PMs from my friends on Zone, and Graal Kingdoms saying that they WASTED money on garbage when they could have been paying for other games, for cheaper and offer more. I mean, it cost 40$, 40 freaking dollars for Zone, or GK. Everyday you log on, your just doing the same thing you did yesterday, pulling out a gun and shooting everyone. There is NO variety what so ever, Graal is just getting dull and boring.

WHERE is this happening?
No were else, but Graal.

WHEN is this happening?
Right now, Graal is just going on a huge downfall. There is nothing you can do about it, but just wait. Just watch, soon the message will appear on the forums when Stefan announces Graal shutdown.

WHY is this happening?
No one cares. For example, I sent in my ticket a month ago and still hasn't been replied. If you guys did care, you would actually take the money we gave you to advertise, to hire professional developers and to improve on your firewall. Right now, as I see it, you just don't give a crap and just letting Graal die, so you have an excuse to just walk away with our money.


HOW is this happening?
The population is decreasing, and is not going up at all. I don't think anymore P2Ps are being bought, nor is gold. The only people who are probaly buying are the people who bought before, because they are what we call ADDICTS and never played any other game BUT Graal. The ADDICTS are the ones keeping Graal alive, at the moment.

*Note, this post has nothing to do with anti-graal,anti-unixmad or a threat to hack Graal Online,cyberjouers in anyway.*




What do you think?

[Elizabeth]

'just close graal now. we might as well add on to the downfall.'

maybe if they hired people that cared, you'd get a response faster.


but anyways, i don't know what you guys are talking about, because i've never gotten a response that took over 4 days.

[CharlieM]

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

What do you think?

That you should give up. Graal isn't going on a downfall. Its average.

[zephirot]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

That you should give up. Graal isn't going on a downfall. Its average.

wat

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Right now there are 102 players on Era, 82 on Zodiac and 72 on Unholy Nation. That's fantastic. Just last weekend there were over 100 people on Era, 100+ people on Zodiac and about 80 people on UN.

How can you honestly call that "denial?"

You obviously were not here when UN itself had approx 190-240 players on during the week.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by zephirot

You obviously were not here when UN itself had approx 190-240 players on during the week.

I've been here pretty much the whole time. I NEVER remember 240 players on UN. Sometimes 220 or so. 220/2 (2 since 1 is UN and 1 is Zodiac, 1+1 = 2) = 110 + all of the other private servers that have gone up since then = What??? Same playercount, different servers.

[zephirot]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I've been here pretty much the whole time. I NEVER remember 240 players on UN. Sometimes 220 or so. 220/2 (2 since 1 is UN and 1 is Zodiac, 1+1 = 2) = 110 + all of the other private servers that have gone up since then = What??? Same playercount, different servers.

I'm going to repeat myself, but obviously you were not here, Zodiac did not even exist back then.
And UN easily reached the 220 players itself.

[WaDaFack]

Have you not noticed the drop in the playercount?
Take UN for example, in the summer of 2005 it had about 200+players, the summer of 2006 it had 190-200players, after 2007 it had 150-180players, now in 2008-2009 it has 100players in the summer.
You'll probaly say "Oh people, got bored of Graal and just quit" well, thats the globals duty, to make Graal entertaining and not dull, and boring.

[CharlieM]

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Have you not noticed the drop in the playercount?
Take UN for example, in the summer of 2005 it had about 200+players, the summer of 2006 it had 190-200players, after 2007 it had 150-180players, now in 2008-2009 it has 100players in the summer.
You'll probaly say "Oh people, got bored of Graal and just quit" well, thats the globals duty, to make Graal entertaining and not dull, and boring.

No I am not going to say that..What happend to UN was Zodiac. When Zodiac players realized what they could do on there own server/other server players. They set out to make there own servers/play other servers. The playercount hasn't changed it has just spread out

[gravator]

I would also like to see a downsize of graal servers, there are many playerworlds that are under construction because nearly everyone wanted to make their own server, and that isn't good because it causes people that do the work to get spread out too much and very little actual work gets taken care of.



There are some servers that were started maybe once or twice but didn't really work out, but STILL people cling to them and try their own "revival project" and should just let those servers go already.


And the tileset or item rights deal going on, why are certain works and tilesets not allowed to be used in another server, i've seen some very good tiles on multiple servers and thought they would go pretty good together in one massive new age server, just an example would be classic, you have all those wonderful and fun quests from before the reset, just give them a makeover! New look, new scripting, but the same stuff the older playerbase loved when they first started.


But no, people are so darn set on keeping "their" tileset and if even ONE sprite looks like theirs and it's on another server........holy cow does all kinds of crap hit the fan and it turns into a big mess on who owns what and where, I could be mistaken but shouldn't all graphics, music, scripts and all that belong to Cyberjoueurs? I would think that allowed people to use any tileset or graphic they needed for their server without someone complaining about it.

[Tigairius]

I was trying to decide whether or not I had the energy to respond to this thread. I think I will.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Just close Graal, its going on a HUGE downfall. There isn't anything you can do about anymore.

People who don't think they can change anything usually don't. Remember that.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

WHOs fault is this?
The globals and Stefan FAILED to cooperate, and did not listen to anyones opinion. Bell the Player World Administrator had a GREAT idea of downsizing Graal so it would be more like 5 servers, unstead of a million. But nope, globals thought they can handle things on there own, guess not.

"The globals and Stefan?" We are constantly listening to your opinions. What gives you any right to tell us how to do our jobs? What gives you any right to tell Stefan and unixmad how to run their game? You are a customer. You are a player. They are business owners. They can run their business however they want to.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. "Globals thought they can handle things on their own," when we haven't even had a "sit down" discussion about that plan yet. Please, before you go on and start denouncing all globals maybe you should consider that these decisions take time, and making big decisions like this requires a "go ahead" from everyone. It's not something that can be done over night.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

WHAT is causing this?
Stefan, and unixmad. Stefan for not being loyal enough to Graal, and unixmad for everything being overpriced. I got a bajillion PMs from my friends on Zone, and Graal Kingdoms saying that they WASTED money on garbage when they could have been paying for other games, for cheaper and offer more. I mean, it cost 40$, 40 freaking dollars for Zone, or GK. Everyday you log on, your just doing the same thing you did yesterday, pulling out a gun and shooting everyone. There is NO variety what so ever, Graal is just getting dull and boring.

$40 is not a lot of money. Stefan and unixmad are still doing things for Graal, but like any business, they are concentrating on what is generating the most money right now: iPhone. Do you honestly blame them? So what? So they're trying to make money? Maybe if they make a lot of good money from iPhone they can bring that positive energy back to Graal and bring it up. So, let's NOT give up and continue playing Graal, like we all know you're going to do anyways.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

WHERE is this happening?
No were else, but Graal.

Cite this please. For some reason I don't think Graal can be the only potentially failing business in the world right now.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

WHEN is this happening?
Right now, Graal is just going on a huge downfall. There is nothing you can do about it, but just wait. Just watch, soon the message will appear on the forums when Stefan announces Graal shutdown.

You can watch all you want, but while you're watching, I'm going to actually be taking initiative and trying to improve the current situation.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

WHY is this happening?
No one cares. For example, I sent in my ticket a month ago and still hasn't been replied. If you guys did care, you would actually take the money we gave you to advertise, to hire professional developers and to improve on your firewall. Right now, as I see it, you just don't give a crap and just letting Graal die, so you have an excuse to just walk away with our money.

We care. Submit a ticket to the playerworld section. I guarantee you that you will receive a response within 2 days. Most likely within 24 hours. I usually respond to tickets within 3 hours or so after they're submitted.

Just because one section of the support center isn't very active doesn't mean we're all just sitting around on our hands.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

HOW is this happening?
The population is decreasing, and is not going up at all. I don't think anymore P2Ps are being bought, nor is gold. The only people who are probaly buying are the people who bought before, because they are what we call ADDICTS and never played any other game BUT Graal. The ADDICTS are the ones keeping Graal alive, at the moment.

Again, I'm going to have to ask you to cite this information. To me, this sounds like some more opinionated nonsense. As far as I know, unixmad and Stefan don't disclose any of their financial information about Graal.

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Have you not noticed the drop in the playercount?

Ever heard of school?

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

You'll probaly say "Oh people, got bored of Graal and just quit" well, thats the globals duty, to make Graal entertaining and not dull, and boring.

It is not our duty to "make Graal entertaining."

All of this, on top of the fact that several years ago when UN had 180+ players, there was no Zodiac. Now if you do the math, which just division, you can see that the playercount has been cut in half from UN and has gone to Zodiac.

Thanks.

[salesman]

There's a lot of factors contributing to the low playercount, but you cannot pin it solely on school and Zodiac...that's just denial, and will get us nowhere.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by salesman

There's a lot of factors contributing to the low playercount, but you cannot pin it solely on school and Zodiac...that's just denial, and will get us nowhere.

Right now there are 102 players on Era, 82 on Zodiac and 72 on Unholy Nation. That's fantastic. Just last weekend there were over 100 people on Era, 100+ people on Zodiac and about 80 people on UN.

How can you honestly call that "denial?"

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Right now there are 102 players on Era, 82 on Zodiac and 72 on Unholy Nation. That's fantastic. Just last weekend there were over 100 people on Era, 100+ people on Zodiac and about 80 people on UN.

Is this sarcasm? I really hope it is, but I can't tell.

[MysticX2X]

Tig's Post:

"The globals and Stefan?" We are constantly listening to your opinions. What gives you any right to tell us how to do our jobs? What gives you any right to tell Stefan and unixmad how to run their game? You are a customer. You are a player. They are business owners. They can run their business however they want to.
You don't have any idea what you're talking about. "Globals thought they can handle things on their own," when we haven't even had a "sit down" discussion about that plan yet. Please, before you go on and start denouncing all globals maybe you should consider that these decisions take time, and making big decisions like this requires a "go ahead" from everyone. It's not something that can be done over night.

We as players should give our constructive criticism in regards to a Game's condition. We as players should give our constructive criticism towards a Game's management. A complaint is what any customer is entitled to because it shows dissatisfaction towards the product. Most companies offer satisfaction policies while we are on the aspect of how they run their business. No one can deny the game's quality has been deteriorating within the recent years, and it surely isn't because some people are getting older and quit. It's because there's nothing to satisfy people anymore.

[Elizabeth]

'playercount is dropping so lets just give up'.

[Pimmeh]

So, why are you still here?!
Get out, we dont need you...

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Pimmeh

So, why are you still here?!
Get out, we dont need you...

you're just the players, it's not like you support graal or anything! we don't need you!

[Nataxo]

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

The ADDICTS are the ones keeping Graal alive, at the moment.



What do you think?

Player-Staff are the ones keeping Graal Alive, mostly.

Though, School might affect too...=P

[Matt]

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Just close Graal, its going on a HUGE downfall. There isn't anything you can do about anymore?

You sound a bit too sure of your statements within your first post. What happens when your proved wrong? o.o

[DarkRenji]

Why are you comparing summer player counts, to these school day player counts? :x

[Darugo]

Summer is when players are more active as School playtime players usually go to sleep earlier and are gone for school half of the day.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

Why are you comparing summer player counts, to these school day player counts? :x

Right now in February there is school.
Last year in February there was school.

If you look at the graph, February of last year had a higher player count than February of this year, which proves that school has nothing to do with the current drop in player count.

[salesman]

Heh, maybe UN's playercount has spread, but the rest of the servers' have not -- they have DROPPED.

Zone, GK, Era, Valikorlia, Classic, etc ALL have a lower playercount than previously, and you cannot blame it on school...especially with the statistics right in front of you.

Every game eventually loses players over time when it's not recieving any attention or updates. If you think Graal is somehow different, you're just being naive.

[Ravenblade1979]

Originally Posted by salesman

Heh, maybe UN's playercount has spread, but the rest of the servers' have not -- they have DROPPED.

Zone, GK, Era, Valikorlia, Classic, etc ALL have a lower playercount than previously, and you cannot blame it on school...especially with the statistics right in front of you.

Every game eventually loses players over time when it's not recieving any attention or updates. If you think Graal is somehow different, you're just being naive.

I also think the subscription price really killed people actually paying for an account or wanting to play anymore.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

I also think the subscription price really killed people actually paying for an account or wanting to play anymore.

lol, the server is aimed at children, and they somehow expect to have children pay money, and develop it for them.

I dunno how it worked in the first place...oh wait...Stefan made things back then.

Maybe I'm just spamming...Zz.z.

[SwimChao]

I haven't been on Graal long, so it's hard for me to say what things were like when other things weren't here -- or what things were like in older days.

However, I do know that a majority of UN's players have spread out to other servers. I know that we used to get a majority of the classic server list's players, but who can blame them for spreading out to other servers? We've gone through so many Managers in the past month so we really haven't had a consistent development plan. That being said:

People certainly are spreading across the server list. However, we're still losing players and I often look at the list and do the math and notice it's at an all time low for the time I've been on Graal.

I have a theory as to why it's so low as it is (though it doesn't account for all of the drop in players). Know that a majority of the people who play Graal are in the 13-18 age group. School is going on and I think that alot of people are just focusing their time on school, rather than Graal. I predict it'll balance back out to a steady flow during the summertime, which isn't all that far away.

I can't really account for much else, and I skipped a few of the posts so I could write this up before I left. Hope it made sense. :P

[FaLLChiLD]

I don't see how anyone could say that is isn't the fault of the higher-ups.

What have we seen from them? A more "kid" friendly website that I actually find harder to navigate. Minimal updates to the actual client, game play, or development tools (that player-developers use to make the game with). Failure to accept player opinions.

I never got into the whole games server. I don't understand why they keep popping out half ass projects instead of improving what we have or want. Graal iPhone was not there when the playercount was higher. The games server was not there. This kind of stuff isn't what drew players in originally and it doesn't seem to be helping that much.

And Tig - Zodiac wasn't there. UN had well over 200 players. Maloria, Atlantis, Delteria, N-Pulse, Valikorlia; All servers actually had a steady fan base ranging anywhere from 30-70 players everyday. How you can diminish all these into two servers hardly equal to what UN had itself is beyond me.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by zephirot

I'm going to repeat myself, but obviously you were not here, Zodiac did not even exist back then.

Originally Posted by FaLLChiLD

And Tig - Zodiac wasn't there.

That's what I've been trying to say this entire time.

Zodiac wasn't around back when UN had that playercount. Once Zodiac was released, half of UN's players went to Zodiac. ~200 people from UN *divided by* 2 = 100 people. There are 100 people on each server now. This is because 200/2 = 100. Plus there are other new servers that have come up on the private world list. The playercount has just shifted, not decreased.

[Pimmeh]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

That's what I've been trying to say this entire time.

I was screaming this in my head the entire time, haha.

Yes, you guys. The playerbase has spread.
Go on RC during peak time and look at the playerlist, add it all up and see what happens, its still fairly decent.

Also: Graal isn't dying because of the lack of players.
The only reason graal would die is because of a lack in people paying for development space.


EDIT: Tig, I love you man. I love you.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

The playercount has just shifted, not decreased.

http://statistics.graal.us/server/graphs/year

[thesmoothcriminal]

Originally Posted by Rufus

http://statistics.graal.us/server/graphs/year

Where does that pull its data from?

If its from the same place that the player counter on the website gets its data from then its way off.

Right now it says there is 536 players when in reality theres less then 150

[Crono]

Originally Posted by thesmoothcriminal

If its from the same place that the player counter on the website gets its data from then its way off.

It doesn't.

[FaLLChiLD]

Then where did the rest go lozlz!?!

Edit to reshow my biggest point which isn't that zodiac wasn't there
UN had well over 200 players. Maloria, Atlantis, Delteria, N-Pulse, Valikorlia; All servers actually had a steady fan base ranging anywhere from 30-70 players everyday.


Double edit:
We should just close this thread until Summer and then talk about it once the school thing is out of the way and we have an actual idea of how many are playing during "peak" season.

[SwimChao]

Originally Posted by FaLLChiLD

Then where did the rest go lozlz!?!

Edit to reshow my biggest point which isn't that zodiac wasn't there
UN had well over 200 players. Maloria, Atlantis, Delteria, N-Pulse, Valikorlia; All servers actually had a steady fan base ranging anywhere from 30-70 players everyday.

I don't know exactly how big of a ball it plays, but school certainly has an effect in it.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by FaLLChiLD

Then where did the rest go lozlz!?!

Edit to reshow my biggest point which isn't that zodiac wasn't there
UN had well over 200 players. Maloria, Atlantis, Delteria, N-Pulse, Valikorlia; All servers actually had a steady fan base ranging anywhere from 30-70 players everyday.

A few years ago:

• UN had a good 180 people or so.
• Era had about 90
• Maloria usually had around 40
• Atlantis = 0
• Delteria = 0
• N-Pulse = 20
• Valikorlia = 20

Today:

• UN = 85
• Era = 105
• Zodiac = 105
• Atlantis = 0
• Delteria = 0
• N-Pulse = 20
• Valikorlia = 30

Does anyone disagree with this estimate? I think it's pretty accurate. Now add it up.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

A few years ago:

• UN had a good 180 people or so.
• Era had about 90
• Maloria usually had around 40
• Atlantis = 0
• Delteria = 0
• N-Pulse = 20
• Valikorlia = 20

Today:

• UN = 85
• Era = 105
• Zodiac = 105
• Atlantis = 0
• Delteria = 0
• N-Pulse = 20
• Valikorlia = 30

Does anyone disagree with this estimate? I think it's pretty accurate. Now add it up.

that seem more accurate than every server with 40-70 players -_-

[Darugo]

has atlantis/delteria even had more than 10 players ever? I'm sure they didn't break 20 when they opened

[FaLLChiLD]

Originally Posted by Darugo

has atlantis/delteria even had more than 10 players ever? I'm sure they didn't break 20 when they opened

Sorry but this is ignorant enough to devalue your opinion completely.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

A few years ago:

• Maloria usually had around 40

That'd be quite inaccurate. Maloria was always ~65 on normal days, and sometimes peaking at ~90-105 (usually nation wars). Those numbers didn't drop until the later stages of Maloria being Classic, and that only lasted for about two months before the server vanished from Classic list.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Darugo

has atlantis/delteria even had more than 10 players ever? I'm sure they didn't break 20 when they opened

Your terribly wrong...

Both have had good playercounts a few years back, especially Delteria . I can't speak for Atlantis much, but i know they did better years back also, playercount-wise. Graal's overall population is dropping, which is obviously an issue. As it's been stated in this thread already, school is an issue, not the complete issues at all though, because years back, even during school hours/days it wasn't dead as it is today. I visit various gaming sites daily for all different genre's/types. I have yet to see more than 1-3 Graal advertisements, which i'm not sure why to tell you the truth..