Actual "Races"

[kia345]

We already have a lot of races on Kingdoms. We have our elves, we have Chris's brief flight of restarting a Dwarfish movement, there's been Orcs here and there, along with Zorbis and humans and what not. But actually "playing" a race hasn't ever meant, well, anything. Sure, you could "RP" it, but who really RPs anymore? Why not actually implement races as a real, stat affecting part of game-play? It wouldn't really be anything big, and, honestly, we already have kingdoms 'devoted' to playing those races. It could even put a better use to that useless "/title" thing we have. Whole races, heads and bodies dedicated to them, newer skills, etc etc. It would be a small change that could break up a bit of GK's monotony.

Elves would have more speed when using bows or something "elfy" like that, maybe a poison resist and a 10percent chance to dodge an attack or something for pvp.

Dwarves with their superior craftsmanship, let them produce more equipment than usual when crafting (5 more nails than usual or something), let them have better mining rates, and a buff when they drink beer or rum, and swing hammers and axes as they would swords.

Zorbis from the ocean can swim in the deeper waters without being bounced back to shore, maybe an increased mana regain while swimming (Zormite's shields imply they're mages), prevent fish from attacking them while swimming.

Humans could be what everyone is by default, like they are now. If that's the case, a downside should be added to each race.

idk about Orcs or any of the other groups that may have existed, however briefly, but there's races that could be added as well. Bomies could become playable for a nostalgic burst, Lizardons with some stronger unarmed attacks and fire, etc etc.

[Seeya]

Second.

[DustyPorViva]

If races were to be introduced, I think it's a concept that would need to be looked at in much depth and detailed down to the smallest pro/con for balance. These are the kind of changes that you can think of on a whim and throw in, as they're make or break.

[Craigus]

Is a major deal and would take alot of time to do and i don't see it as a big deal, people would pick thier race for the bonuses anyway (zorbi's is OP), i see more scope in many other things such as events, kingdoms, leveling system.

[Rufus]

I think races would be nice, and it would be fun to be a Lizardon on Graal Kingdoms.

[CABAL49]

Zorbis should be stronger than your average human since they live in the water. I guess a downside should be that they are slower, but I doubt anyone would appreciate that.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by CABAL49

Zorbis should be stronger than your average human since they live in the water. I guess a downside should be that they are slower, but I doubt anyone would appreciate that.

More damage from lightning, less accuracy with bows (fins!), maybe a slight nerf to their top speed with speed items. There's tons of tweaks that could be made for each race.

[DeathOfRa]

Originally Posted by kia345

More damage from lightning, less accuracy with bows (fins!), maybe a slight nerf to their top speed with speed items. There's tons of tweaks that could be made for each race.

Fishes are dexterous. Maybe an extra dex boost when it rains? (Putting weather to use won't hurt...)

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by DeathOfRa

Fishes are dexterous. Maybe an extra dex boost when it rains? (Putting weather to use won't hurt...)

Could also have them gain a good speed boost while swimming and start with a diving skill. Could open up whole new dungeon/rp posibilites with the introduction of underwater life/levels.

[Rufus]

I think that Graal Kingdoms is more equipped for the implementation of races than most servers are because of the body setup it uses. I'm really unsure if they should have special abilities, as it could lead to heavy balancing issues, but the idea of it is really appealing to me for some reason.

[Googi]

Sounds great! This way, people can complain about the race attributes when Zormite tries to encourage them to play as Zorbi!

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Googi

This way, people can complain about the race attributes when Zormite tries to encourage them to play as Zorbi!

No problem there, Zormite doesn't encourage it!

[Googi]

Originally Posted by kia345

No problem there, Zormite doesn't encourage it!

But you realize this suggestion runs contrary to your desire that they do, right?

[Tigairius]

It could be nice, but there is a problem:
There's no one to do all of that work of creating all of those bodies.

Plus, we would have to modify several things to incorporate the new races, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but graphics is the biggest issue.

[gravator]

Yea, add races with certain bonus stats, and lets not stop there! Lets add race scrolls for 1K to the scroll shops too! Why play one when you can play them all!


Really, this was tried with classes and well........there are no classes whatsoever, just a single build that can be modified over time, why not fix that first, then think about getting the races added.

[RealDDc]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

It could be nice, but there is a problem:
There's no one to do all of that work of creating all of those bodies.

Plus, we would have to modify several things to incorporate the new races, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but graphics is the biggest issue.

Balance>Graphics

The least thing graal could be recommended for, was and will be its graphic. Those pixles are thrown together quickly, im worried about the balance, yet there is a lot problems and bad states with the current gameplay, and you are worried about the graphics?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by dennis1410

Balance>Graphics

The least thing graal could be recommended for, was and will be its graphic. Those pixles are thrown together quickly, im worried about the balance, yet there is a lot problems and bad states with the current gameplay, and you are worried about the graphics?

Who said he'd dismiss balancing them? I agree with him. Just because Graal is currently 'not recommended' for high-quality graphics does not mean we should just throw in whatever crap we can come up with. That's exactly what's wrong with development on Graal, such low standards.

[RealDDc]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Who said he'd dismiss balancing them? (...)

Originally Posted by Tigairius

(...plus, we would have to modify several things to incorporate the new races, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but graphics is the biggest issue.

Sounds to me like, the balance ain't a big thing, we butcher that together in some five minutes spare time. But the graphics, that are done 9o/o of the times by bored players anyways, need to be amazing.

Doesn't make mutch of sense on a game, that has a almost decent graphic, but only if we move 10 years back of game development. Not a complaint about the graal graphics, I enjoy playing games with outdated graphics, but set theyr main focus and effort on well made balance and a enjoyable gameplay.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by dennis1410

Sounds to me like, the balance ain't a big thing, we butcher that together in some five minutes spare time. But the graphics, that are done 9o/o of the times by bored players anyways, need to be amazing.

Doesn't make mutch of sense on a game, that has a almost decent graphic, but only if we move 10 years back of game development. Not a complaint about the graal graphics, I enjoy playing games with outdated graphics, but set theyr main focus and effort on well made balance and a enjoyable gameplay.

Doesn't sound like he said graphics would be getting the highest priority, just that it'd be the hardest part.

And the whole graphics vs gameplay thing is meh. I enjoy an out-dated game as much as the next person, but Graal is a professional game, which you have to pay for. It's not selling itself as a crappy looking game with great gameplay, it does take itself seriously, and most importantly, the gameplay isn't that great. You won't find many games that take themselves seriously, costs, and look like **** -- but don't offer anything other games do for free -- that are successful.

[ViperZakuto]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

It could be nice, but there is a problem:
There's no one to do all of that work of creating all of those bodies.

Plus, we would have to modify several things to incorporate the new races, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but graphics is the biggest issue.

Are you hiring GFX Artists? Maybe you should post an opening?

[MajinDragon]

I gotta agree with dennis on this one, it's more important to the balancing, content and gameplay down solid before worrying about GFX, if this had been the main focus years ago, todays game would be alot different, although i'm discounting the number of failed staff we've had in the past too.

And i agree with whoever posted about races. It's the beauty of GK that classes are irrelivant, so why have them? I'd like to see bonuses/drawbacks to every race, like
thieves getting +2speed, stealth, start with stealing known and possibly 21dex as max natural.

Races would be nice but you'd have to be careful about including races which gods already slay well. Like giants... people would be reluctant to even become one since govannon would destroy them.

[RealDDc]

On a little sidenote, if the balance is solid, possible bugs crushed down to a minimum, and the whole logic behind it applied, im with every add to the game. Changing a temporar graphic into a solid one, is a matter of a little. But changing a unblanaced, bugged or screwing content, is a big task, especially if it already a long while.

[ViperZakuto]

Originally Posted by dennis1410

On a little sidenote, if the balance is solid, possible bugs crushed down to a minimum, and the whole logic behind it applied, im with every add to the game. Changing a temporar graphic into a solid one, is a matter of a little. But changing a unblanaced, bugged or screwing content, is a big task, especially if it already a long while.

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

I gotta agree with dennis on this one, it's more important to the balancing, content and gameplay down solid before worrying about GFX, if this had been the main focus years ago, todays game would be alot different, although i'm discounting the number of failed staff we've had in the past too.

And i agree with whoever posted about races. It's the beauty of GK that classes are irrelivant, so why have them? I'd like to see bonuses/drawbacks to every race, like
thieves getting +2speed, stealth, start with stealing known and possibly 21dex as max natural.

Races would be nice but you'd have to be careful about including races which gods already slay well. Like giants... people would be reluctant to even become one since govannon would destroy them.

I don't think Tig is trying to say work more on the GFX than the balancing or whatever. I think he is trying to say... that there is nobody to do the GFX. They have people to do the balancing, testing, and bug fixing... Just no pixel artists.

If you do a MAJOR update like this, everything should be good and ready... don't just throw crappy classic GFX on it.

I agree with adding races. That would be awsome. The current Head system would have to be totally revamped. Maybe just sort it out into races. and limit to each race??? IDK

You could start with the main races. Human, Dwarf, Elf, Orc, ect. Then after that system is all debugged, and working properly maybe start creating sub races.

Dwarf - Mountain Dwarf, Duergar
Elf - High elf, Wood Elf, Drow
ect.

These are just examples. I like the idea. Or just keep it simple and let people RP the sub races =D

[CABAL49]

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

Drow

Drows are banned from GK. Forever.

[RealDDc]

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

(...They have people to do the balancing, testing, and bug fixing... Just no pixel artists. (...)

Rly? I can't see a problem with the graphics, but the bug list is long.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by dennis1410

Rly? I can't see a problem with the graphics, but the bug list is long.

There's no one to do the graphics. Appearance is a big part of this, it shouldn't be some novel thing just for stats like Zodiac's.

[ViperZakuto]

Now that is great! as long as they don't try and chage Zormite to a drow race again... *chuckles* it should be fine =O

[saetarshadowflare]

Well, if we are to add races, they all need benefits and weaknesses, even to the god slaying powers, would make many fights more interesting.
Here's a short list of races and benefits i think are fair and balanced to all, plus who's to say there wont be potions to change your race?

Human- max 21 cha, no applied weakness/resistances

Elf - max 21 dex, +10-20 magic resist

Dwarf max 21 con +20 fire resist +10 cold resist -10 poison resist -10 sustenance(DWARF NEEDS FOOD)

Demon max 21 str +20 fire resist +10 magic resist -10 cold resist - 20 holy word resist

Angel max 21 wisdom +20 holy word resist +10 lightning resist -20 death resist -10 fear resist

orc max 21 str +20 poison resist -20 magic resist

Troll max 21 con +30 poison resist -30 fire resist

Gnome max 21 int +20 magic resist -20 cold resist

Mindflayer max 21 pow +30 magic resist unable to use weapons(idk about this one, just needed something for pow)

Classes:
Barbarian max 21 str
Warrior max 21 con
Sorceror max 21 pow
Alchemist max 21 int
Priest max 21 wis
Theif max 21 dex

idk you you would want the races and classes to both have stat maxes, or just different applied weakness/resistance, either way it would make the game 100x more fun and more diverse.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by saetarshadowflare

post

That's a pretty nice idea, but perks and constraints shouldn't be limited to stats, that would just be used for 30/30/30.

[saetarshadowflare]

yeah thats why i was adding applied weakness/resistances since there is no weapon skill...unless you mean to add bonuses to the actual skills we level, which would be nice
in that case
Barbs and warriors get +5 physique
thieves get +5 dex
sorcs get +5 magic
priests get +5 prayer
alchemists get +5 mental

or maybe they could gain an extra 25-50% exp in the skill they should be adept in.

I also tried to keep resistances to the spells that actually work, and avoiding things like acid,fear,paralyze,blind ect. since they do nothing.

classes could also benefit ac/wc/spell and prayer damage i suppose, as well as chance to be successful with alchemy
Barbs get +3 ac/wc
Warriors get +5 damage +2 ac
Thieves get +5 ac
Sorcs get increased spell points and higher spell damage
priests get increased prayer points and higher prayer damage, possibly more use of prayers even when grace is too low
alchemists get more sp and hp as well as less failing in alchemy

there are plenty of tangents, but there still should be some limitation on it all.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by saetarshadowflare

Well, if we are to add races, they all need benefits and weaknesses, even to the god slaying powers, would make many fights more interesting.
Here's a short list of races and benefits i think are fair and balanced to all, plus who's to say there wont be potions to change your race?

Human- max 21 cha, no applied weakness/resistances

Elf - max 21 dex, +10-20 magic resist

Dwarf max 21 con +20 fire resist +10 cold resist -10 poison resist -10 sustenance(DWARF NEEDS FOOD)

Demon max 21 str +20 fire resist +10 magic resist -10 cold resist - 20 holy word resist

Angel max 21 wisdom +20 holy word resist +10 lightning resist -20 death resist -10 fear resist

orc max 21 str +20 poison resist -20 magic resist

Troll max 21 con +30 poison resist -30 fire resist

Gnome max 21 int +20 magic resist -20 cold resist

Mindflayer max 21 pow +30 magic resist unable to use weapons(idk about this one, just needed something for pow)

Classes:
Barbarian max 21 str
Warrior max 21 con
Sorceror max 21 pow
Alchemist max 21 int
Priest max 21 wis
Theif max 21 dex

idk you you would want the races and classes to both have stat maxes, or just different applied weakness/resistance, either way it would make the game 100x more fun and more diverse.

Could add Fairy for Pow? I dno.
As far as classes go, there should be drawbacks to their benefits which should be more specific. For example:

Barbarian: +1max nat str, +5percent exp from physical, denied magic and prayer, +5percent damage bonus.
Warrior: +1 max nat con, +5percent exp from physical, denied magic.
Sorceror: +1max nat pow, +5percent exp from magic, denied swords and hammers, +5percent spell damage.
Alchemist: +1max nat int, +5percent exp from mental, attuned creation.
Priest: +1max nat wis, +5percent exp from wisdom, +5percent prayer damage/effect, denied melee, grace regeneration w/o prayer, bonus grace regen w/prayer.
Theif: +1max nat dex, +5speed, attuned: daggers, denied hammers, stealth, denied prayer, +5luck, +5percent agilty exp.

Just some thoughts, but i'd definately like to see classes have a more permanent effect on players. Some seem harsh, i show at first glance Alchemist and Thief appear to be the weakest, but if luck were alot more related to item drop %, thief would be the best for earning money, and alchemists would be the best choice for item crafting, even cooking, and also isn't denied anything. As you can see Warrior and Barbs can't use magic, so no magic exp and harder to level mental, relying on scrolls alot more. And the priest would be rewarded greatly for the no melee thing by having grace act like sp and regen w/o prayer, also can use magic.

Together with the races you showed AND gods, it'd make for interesting combinations of classes, races and gods. Eventually people pay find out what is best for what, but there'll always be a suprise element when other players work out their weaknesses.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

classes

I have an alternative idea for classes and leveling, that meshes together with the race idea.

[Seeya]

Originally Posted by kia345

I have an alternative idea for classes and leveling, that meshes together with the race idea.

Yeah - very pro.
Based off Oblivion, if that makes it easier for anyone to understand. Very good idea.

[saetarshadowflare]

Leon i like your idea, but if that were the case people would no doubt want to repick classes, since many people are priests but use melee (john, sky ect) but i like them overall, i just dont think that barbarians should be denied both magic and prayer...thats half the game...unless they were greatly compensated in terms of melee (chance to crit?)

God revamp would be nice too, just to change things up along with the classes, basically introducing a whole new gameplay style to gk which would take a lot more skill and demand much more thinking in pvp/spars

I like pojos levelling chart as well, it would definitely change the game...but its a bit too late for that now..

[kia345]

Originally Posted by saetarshadowflare

I like pojos levelling chart as well, it would definitely change the game...but its a bit too late for that now..

The idea for the leveling system would be to add it alternatively. Give people the option of having their experience points reset and re-level using the new system, not forcing everyone into resetting or just starting new people with it.

It even makes more sense for the RP aspect. You can't go and change your race, you're born with that, but your career (class) is up to you, as you level.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by kia345

I have an alternative idea for classes and leveling, that meshes together with the race idea.

I like that idea, but i also dislike it. Alot of the oddjobs and subskills that you propose and might be implimented if it were to happen are so trivial and i don't think they should affect your potential to reach the maximum level. My problem with that levelling system is it's too different from what i like.

Originally Posted by saetarshadowflare

Leon i like your idea, but if that were the case people would no doubt want to repick classes, since many people are priests but use melee (john, sky ect) but i like them overall, i just dont think that barbarians should be denied both magic and prayer...thats half the game...unless they were greatly compensated in terms of melee (chance to crit?)

God revamp would be nice too, just to change things up along with the classes, basically introducing a whole new gameplay style to gk which would take a lot more skill and demand much more thinking in pvp/spars

I understand that people would want to repick classes. There would be no problem in giving everyone that option, no reset would even be needed since classes don't mean anything except starting base stats - which i expect wouldn't change aswell. The reason why i suggested barbarians to be denied both is they're pure physical dominance, perhaps 15percent physical damage bonus would make that more evident, thinking about it, 5percent is nothing considering they have no magic and prayer. But barbarians to me, seem like a class out of touch with magic/prayer entirely and would seem the type to rely purely on their physical strength and other feats.

[ViperZakuto]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

The reason why i suggested barbarians to be denied both is they're pure physical dominance, perhaps 15percent physical damage bonus would make that more evident, thinking about it, 5percent is nothing considering they have no magic and prayer. But barbarians to me, seem like a class out of touch with magic/prayer entirely and would seem the type to rely purely on their physical strength and other feats.

yeah but the whole magic and physical system would need a revamp to be more balanced. That is why magic is not allowed in spars now.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by ViperZakuto

yeah but the whole magic and physical system would need a revamp to be more balanced. That is why magic is not allowed in spars now.

Well ofcourse but i feel the magic problem pretty much lies in spars. Bmode, magic seems pretty balanced, yea, it's damaging to RoW users but that is the risk you take when you put them on and there are ways to counter magic anyway. In spars, it's evident certain spells do too much damage, and rods shouldn't be spar legal, they're too buggy and unfair for spars imo.

In phys, all that needs to change imo is poison. We can all agree it's far too powerful. It alone decides who lives and dies. You can lose -10dex, str and con, aswell as take damage with knockback every 10 seconds and to top it off, reduced regen. What a combination that spells out L-A-M-E. Poison needs to only do damage (that varies on phys level of poisoner and resists of poisoned person) over time w/o knockback and halt/reduce regen (depending on phys level of poisoner and resists of poisoned person).

[ViperZakuto]

That is a great idea. So you are saying that Sparring and Bmode are different when fighting? I never knew this. Is there a reason why, or what is up with that?