Lending of Items

[Deophite18]

Apparently there has been some confusion between players and staff regarding the rules about lending items to other players, so I am here to clarify. Since scamming is legal, lending item's to other players is done at your own risk.

It should only be done between people whom you really trust. You should not ask a GP or an Admin to watch a lending trade because it defeats the purpose of the scamming rules, and if you end up losing an item you let someone borrow it will NOT be restored.

[DarkRenji]

So if A staff lent me a item, and I refuse to return it, then it will not be restored, correct?

[salesman]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

So if A staff lent me a item, and I refuse to return it, then it will not be restored, correct?

No, I will personally return it if you scam one of my staff members.

[DarkReaper0]

Only idiots get scammed because they don't use the trade system or fail to trade with intelligent actions.

[Deophite18]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

So if A staff lent me a item, and I refuse to return it, then it will not be restored, correct?

No, if you have read the rules on the news gui then you would know that you cannot scam a staff member. But staff can't scam players either.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

So if A staff lent me a item, and I refuse to return it, then it will not be restored, correct?

You guys don't understand that the point of "no scamming staff" is not so that staff members can be careless, but so they can do what needs to be done. If they want to lend out an item to someone to test, and that person refuses to give it back, why shouldn't they be able to remove it by force?

If an Events Team member lends you a gun in an event, of course you should be expected and forced to give it back should you refuse.

It just makes sense.

[Tigairius]

I don't see why scamming should be legal at all, it's stupid. All it does is promote a dirty community.

[DKH89]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I don't see why scamming should be legal at all, it's stupid. All it does is promote a dirty community.

Agreed.

Scamming shouldn't be legal. One of my Ex girl friends brother use to play all the time, and he would basically scam 24/7.

Scamming bing legal is stupid. There are a bunch of 12 and 13 year old kids who play this game and can easily get tricked.

[xAzerothx]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

You guys don't understand that the point of "no scamming staff" is not so that staff members can be careless, but so they can do what needs to be done. If they want to lend out an item to someone to test, and that person refuses to give it back, why shouldn't they be able to remove it by force?

If an Events Team member lends you a gun in an event, of course you should be expected and forced to give it back should you refuse.

It just makes sense.

What if a staff member gets scammed by lending out one of their personal items. Should they be reinbursted?

[DarkRenji]

Its not fair GPs and staff are immune to scamming while nobody else is, they can just lend anything out and crap...

And I agree with Tig, scamming sucks.

When you have someone who pretends to be your friend for months just so they can scam you... thats when something is wrong x.x

[TSAdmin]

/withTig

[WanDaMan]

Scamming's fun especially if you get something good out of it!

[xXziroXx]

Since every single item trade is logged (I assume, otherwise, shame on you!) it shouldn't be rocket science to revert trades, thus preventing scamming to some extent.

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Since every single item trade is logged (I assume, otherwise, shame on you!) it shouldn't be rocket science to revert trades, thus preventing scamming to some extent.

There would be WAAAY to many trades to change back, and they could keep getting worse...

player1 got a PBP, then traded it to player 2, who traded it to player 3 and it would keep going

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

There would be WAAAY to many trades to change back, and they could keep getting worse...

player1 got a PBP, then traded it to player 2, who traded it to player 3 and it would keep going

Could make a script that tracks the path of an item and then revert them plus all the other item paths it crossed on the way there. Maybe not possible with Era's system, but it is with mine, and I would expect no less on a server such as Era.

[natey_440]

Okay.. Players can scam players, but when a player scams staff..?

If scamming is legal so therefor it shouldn't be illegal to scam a staff member..

That's like calling a Honda a ricer for having a big Honda sticker on it, but when a Corvette has a "Corvette" logo on it, its not?

All of the staff are not above the players, they are just development team..

I don't see what the point is of making scamming legal, and then making it illegal if one of your 'friends/staff members' get scammed.

[salesman]

Staff members cannot scam you, therefore you cannot scam them...simple.

And to what ziro said, the problem with checking logs and reversing trades on Era is that there is just way too many ways to trade/move/hide an item, each having it's own log file.
There's the itemtrade window, the mall, drop trades, lockers, burying it in the sand, destroying it...It gets -really- messy.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by salesman

There's the itemtrade window, the mall, drop trades, lockers, burying it in the sand, destroying it...It gets -really- messy.

Of course, but if they're timestamped, an automated script should be able to trace the route of every single one of those items, and from that revert it.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by natey_440

That's like calling a Honda a ricer for having a big Honda sticker on it, but when a Corvette has a "Corvette" logo on it, its not?

bcuz the most popular ricer is the honda + a corvette is not "all show no go"

now if you put a corvette sticker on, say, a Chevrolet Corsica, thats considered rice by some...others just include anything japanese

p.s scammin should only be legal assuming trades are reversed if a staff witnesses one. this doesn't somehow "defeat the purpose of scamming rules", it means the player who ends up scammed was in a rush + really stupid

[Deophite18]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I don't see why scamming should be legal at all, it's stupid. All it does is promote a dirty community.

I tried to make it like this but was overruled in the end

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by Crono

p.s scammin should only be legal assuming trades are reversed if a staff witnesses one. this doesn't somehow "defeat the purpose of scamming rules", it means the player who ends up scammed was in a rush + really stupid

No because that leads to staff sticking up for friends, even when they didnt see it or was not there.

--

also scamming should be complety legal or illegal not with some people immune to it

So what if " Staff cant be scammed because they cant scam lululul"
A Hell of alot of kids get scamed ever other day, thats like 1 staff trying scam 1 person compard to the 15 that would of attemped to scam him..
I wouldnt be surprized if some of your staff were just hear for " the nice company car" that comes with the job z.z

blah im so sleepy im going to bed now, half of this proble isnt word right but you should get the gist of it...

[cbk1994]

" Staff cant be scammed because they cant scam lululul" is not the only reason staff can't be scammed. See my earlier post.

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

" Staff cant be scammed because they cant scam lululul" is not the only reason staff can't be scammed. See my earlier post.

In reply to that

Theres a diffrence in a staff letting someone use a gun for tests and leading a gun to a friend.

And its not a ETs job to give a player a gun, so if they get scammed for biting off more then they can chew..

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by DarkRenji

And its not a ETs job to give a player a gun, so if they get scammed for biting off more then they can chew..

And yet an ET will be criticized for not giving a player a gun, and simply kicking the weaponless player from the event.

[kia345]

I don't think they meant if the ET gave them a gun for an event. Just during casual gameplay, if a staff member is stupid and gets an item scammed off them. They shouldn't be compensated for that.

[xFuture]

You should just keep the items for yourself... Then you wont be scammed ever

[Inverness]

I'm with Tig on this, scamming is not good. We already have enough problems in society today, don't need to create more by not punishing people for stuff like this.

GS2 makes it trivial to create a system to track the progression of items from person to person.

Items in Second Life are tagged with the Owner and Creator and the current Owner can decide what the next one can do with the item, and the next owner can only do at most as much as the previous. I don't think an identical system would be right for Era but perhaps something similar.

Originally Posted by xFuture

You should just keep the items for yourself... Then you wont be scammed ever

Yea, lets not trade items ever and destroy any semblance of an economy Era has.

That sounds like something the government would do, punishing everybody instead of the people who are doing the bad because they're lazy.

[natey_440]

Scamming should be illegal, and so should cross-server trading.

/thread

[natchez416]

I get the impression that most people commenting in this thread have either never played era or are extremely new.

Let me just just say I've been playing for at least the past 3 years and having scamming legal is the best thing for era.

Making Scamming Illegal would be like the war on drugs. Yes you will catch a few scammers but you'll never stop it completely. Also a lot of staff time a resources will be wasted trying to fight scamming, which could have been spent actually developing the server.

Most of you that are against having scamming legal seem to me like you have just come from UN or some other happy go lucky, care bear atmosphere server. This is not how things are done on era, and never will be.

Scamming is so much a part of the game now too... someone can go from rags to riches in a second. and Its all about trust. and building that trust with people.

And believe it or not I am totally against scamming, and have only done it once myself... But making it illegal is just stupidity. There are enough safety precautions put in place to protect players from getting scammed. you would have to be a complete retard...

One last thing all of you people saying its unfair that you can scam players but you cant scam staff would you please ****!!!! Staff are building this flipping server for you to enjoy, and their doing it all for nothing. The least we could expect them to have is a few staff toys and immunity to scamming.

-SOrry FoR ThE RaNT

[Nataxo]

well... about the "lending items" we could do it like this:

have an option in the /itemtrade window that says "lend items" click it and then you select for how much time you want to lend it... max will be 24 hours. and when this desired time expires the item will automaticly return to the owner. (even if he/she is offline, when they login again they'll find it at their inventory)
this lended item of course, cant be traded until it returns to its owners hands. also if this item is droped it'll return to its owners inventory (even if he/she is offline) or simply it just cant be droped =P

and maybe each time you select a lending item see a small info that tells you how much time you still have with it.

what do u think?

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by natchez416

Making Scamming Illegal would be like the war on drugs. Yes you will catch a few scammers but you'll never stop it completely.

That doesn't mean you should stop doing it, at least you're making an effort of turning the place into something better.

[CharlieM]

I don't understand everyone always says "TOO BIG OF LOGS" I bet if you give me 2 accounts and what the item was and some logs I could track down what account that has the item. It's not hard for me to do I don't know about others though.

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by natchez416

Making Scamming Illegal would be like the war on drugs. Yes you will catch a few scammers but you'll never stop it completely. Also a lot of staff time a resources will be wasted trying to fight scamming, which could have been spent actually developing the server.

The hell, comparing these to each other....

If Drugs were allowed in the world, it would be a alot worse off,
since we are comparing them I guess thats why era is right?


Just because you dont catch them right away does not mean you give up z.z

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by natchez416

Making Scamming Illegal would be like the war on drugs. Yes you will catch a few scammers but you'll never stop it completely.

I'm sorry, but Era is not real life.

It is quite easy to use scripts to completely control items you lend to others to prevent them from trading or using the item if you want, and have an arrest warrant put on you if you don't return someone's stuff a certain amount of time after the lend expired.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by natchez416

Making Scamming Illegal would be like the war on drugs. Yes you will catch a few scammers but you'll never stop it completely.

Not sure if I'm correct here, but isn't a 'few' better than 'none'?

Originally Posted by natchez416

Also a lot of staff time a resources will be wasted trying to fight scamming, which could have been spent actually developing the server.

GPs & Player-relation type staff members don't develop anyways, I don't see how this would waste any time at all.

Originally Posted by natchez416

Most of you that are against having scamming legal seem to me like you have just come from UN or some other happy go lucky, care bear atmosphere server. This is not how things are done on era, and never will be.

Oh and why is that? This is a game, not a dog fighting ring in your neighbors basement. This is supposed to be a care-free way to relax and enjoy yourself after school, work, etc.

Originally Posted by natchez416

Scamming is so much a part of the game now too... someone can go from rags to riches in a second. and Its all about trust. and building that trust with people.

Scamming shouldn't be part of the game and it doesn't have to be if it is enforced.

Originally Posted by natchez416

And believe it or not I am totally against scamming, and have only done it once myself... But making it illegal is just stupidity. There are enough safety precautions put in place to protect players from getting scammed. you would have to be a complete retard...

I agree that there are safety precautions, but as long as scamming is legal scammers will be finding new ways to scam and improvising.

Originally Posted by natchez416

One last thing all of you people saying its unfair that you can scam players but you cant scam staff would you please ****!!!! Staff are building this flipping server for you to enjoy, and their doing it all for nothing. The least we could expect them to have is a few staff toys and immunity to scamming.

I disagree with the whole "only staff get protection" thing. I do believe in perks for staff members. For example, the LATs on Era can earn in-game money by making & uploading custom houses for people. That is a perk. Why should staff get scam protection over players? I believe that both staff AND players deserve scam protection due to the fact that most of the staff are players as well.

[DKH89]

lol!
and Tig FTW!

[Bl0nkt]

The Era staff team will not make amends for idiotic acts. However, we will do our best to fix a legitimate problem (such as the item trade close exploit). It's not so much that scamming is LEGAL, it's so much that we don't want to be hindered in more important matters because of a lack of general sense.

[salesman]

Even though it's not my call, really, making scamming illegal again would require a lot more work than just an announcement. The reason it was made illegal in the first place was because of all the problems that came out of it were just way too much to handle.

Tracking items on Era is a serious pain in the ass, so a scripted system would need to be made as a few have said in this thread. When a player scammed an item, it would then be traded several times, so not only would we have to return the item to its original owner, we would have to reverse every single trade that took place after the scam. Even trades that come out of trades from that scammed item would have to be reversed -- the chain of trades following ONE SCAM would not stay linear, and more and more trades branch off from the original trade.

That is just problem number one; problem number two comes from people taking advantage of the fact that scamming is illegal to get other people in trouble. It has happened several times when a player would give someone an item, and then pm a staff member that they got scammed. So would scamming be a punishable offence, or would we just return the lost items and leave it at that? If it is not a punishable offence, making scamming illegal would not improve the server's atmosphere at all...but I guess circumstances could be evaluated to determine how the situation would be handled, and the more offences you have, the more severe the punishment.

Finally, more GPs would need to be hired, because I don't think 3 RC GPs would be able to handle the number of scams that Era's players would attempt in a single day. Let's face it, the attitude of Era's playerbase is not the same as it is on other servers.

The problem is not that we're "too lazy" to do all of this, it is that there is NO reason one should be getting scammed...especially when there are several means in place for safe trading.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by salesman

Even though it's not my call, really, making scamming illegal again would require a lot more work than just an announcement. The reason it was made illegal in the first place was because of all the problems that came out of it were just way too much to handle.

If you could even do as much as start banning people for > month each time they scam it would make them think twice before scamming. You wouldn't even have to deal with restoring the item then.
It would still be nice if you could restore the item though.

[natey_440]

If scamming is legal then why does Era have so many GPs?

Era has 9 GPs, what do all of them do? Nothing!

Illegalize Scamming, you guys put no effort towards doing anything.

Sales, all you do is worth on that god damned event bot when you could be doing something productive for the server.. Era has loads of Event Team members.

Mange, I never see him on.. and I need to talk to him.

Deo, allows cross server trading? Great! Something that's illegal on Graal is legal on one server.

Who is it that allows usding, but when he sees people selling for usd bans them? I'm not going to name any names, because this is what I have heard..

Era is going down hill, and era is going down hill fast. You guys need some updated staff, that know what is going on.