Scamming

Tigairius · #1 12-31-2007, 11:01 PM

Because of an increased amount of players lately (due to updates and activity) there has also been an increasing amount of thieves. Scamming has increased lately and due to the fact that there is no rule enforcing scamming to cease, it'll continue unless something gets done early. So I was thinking we should have a thread in which people can report scammers and after staff check logs, it can be confirmed that that person is a scammer. This can provide a list of people that are more safe to trust, but you shouldn't trust anyone with your items anyways.
Tell me your opinions.

Ziro_of_the_Turks · #2 01-01-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Because of an increased amount of players lately (due to updates and activity) there has also been an increasing amount of thieves. Scamming has increased lately and due to the fact that there is no rule enforcing scamming to cease, it'll continue unless something gets done early. So I was thinking we should have a thread in which people can report scammers and after staff check logs, it can be confirmed that that person is a scammer. This can provide a list of people that are more safe to trust, but you shouldn't trust anyone with your items anyways.
Tell me your opinions.

I'd like to see a good reason as to why someone can get scammed on trade tables. It's never happened to me and never will. I've had people I could trust with my housekey and rare items. People I can't trust... I won't.

But trading with trials does pose a potential threat of scamming. If you're "logs" can do more than trade tables, and actually log the trial who trades in Misty Mug Tavern, and has another person hiding under a vase jump out and steal items, then I agree with this idea. Those people should be announced as scammers- and I suppose it would only make sense to announce the trade-table scammers as well. But if this only works for trade tables, I suggest just taking a stronger general approach to it.

Give some basic guidelines:
-If you need someone to EA something for you, only trust a member of your kingdom (preferably a high-ranking officer)
-If you need someone to bless a weapon, try to get a member of your kingdom first, and if you can't, make sure the other person is in a kingdom. Try to have a third-party witness the exchangement (trade tables?). And to the one blessing: try to have a third-party witness the return of the item (trade tables again?) so there's no false accusations.
-All kings should enforce no-scamming and remove/ban members who do. And work with other kings to see that these scammers don't get into a kingdom, and are given a horrible reputation so noone will want to trade with them (this will better the chances of them giving back a rare item, or not taking it in the first place). I still go back-and-forth on whether or not this should apply pirates. But for now, I have to agree that it should apply to the Pirates as well. (just keep it OOC...)
-NEVER give ANYONE items to "try them on". There's no reasonable purpose for this. Don't know what your HP increase will be from 29 con to 30 con? Ask around to get a better idea.

Just make a better list than I did.

(Edit: Also, I won't vote untill you answer my question about how the logs will work)

pooper200000 · #3 01-01-2008, 12:00 AM

Or the staff could just make it so you have to be so incredibly stupid and deserve to lose your weapons if you do something like that. If they just added no fishing rods and a on and off of 3 seconds for all of the trade tables (Meaning if you hit decline you have to wait 3 seconds before entering the table again)
if they also added a confirmation but they could just solve most of the problems so then scamming wouldn't really be a problem. Then it would just be you chose to place it on the ground then you chose to lose it.

It would be easier if they just fixed it so it can't be a problem than to create lists.

DustyPorViva · #4 01-01-2008, 12:10 AM

I don't play GK often, but I don't see how anyone can get scammed while there is a build-in feature for trading. Just pay attention.
But if there are ways to trick someone and there's no way the person can easily detect the scam... then there's a problem.

cbk1994 · #5 01-01-2008, 12:38 AM

Start by removing /dropall (or was this already done?)

Googi · #6 01-01-2008, 01:05 AM

Just make trade room logs publically viewable. Then people can see what prices people are getting for stuff, etc.

cyan3 · #7 01-01-2008, 01:26 AM

I think listing known scammers is a great idea people will be more careful with items and it will be easier to update the CP blacklist with scammers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Start by removing /dropall (or was this already done?)

/dropall is not really a problem you must be dumb or stupid to get scammed from that.

Tracker180 · #8 01-01-2008, 02:24 AM

you get scammed, it's not our ****ing problem, you shouldn't be that stupid, just use common sen- oh wait, never mind, common sense is rare these days, silly me

Googi · #9 01-01-2008, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracker180

you get scammed, it's not our ****ing problem, you shouldn't be that stupid, just use common sen- oh wait, never mind, common sense is rare these days, silly me

Not true. There are cases where people click the red flag, take back the table and click the green flag and you get scammed due to lag.

Gothika · #10 01-01-2008, 03:10 AM

Posting the scammers will be a good idea. But I doubt it's necessary because people know who the scammers are.

Tigairius · #11 01-01-2008, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tracker180

you get scammed, it's not our ****ing problem, you shouldn't be that stupid, just use common sen- oh wait, never mind, common sense is rare these days, silly me

Some people were actually raised in nice house holds and don't have to deal with problems with thieves (especially younger players)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

Posting the scammers will be a good idea. But I doubt it's necessary because people know who the scammers are.

New players don't; this is for the protection of returning oldbies as well as new players.

pooper200000 · #12 01-01-2008, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

But if there are ways to trick someone and there's no way the person can easily detect the scam... then there's a problem.

I'm pretty sure it falls under that one.
Fishing rods are somewhat undetectable and the lag trade got me once.

jonnyrocks2 · #13 01-01-2008, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooper200000

I'm pretty sure it falls under that one.
Fishing rods are somewhat undetectable and the lag trade got me once.

Uh, right click the item to verify?

Stephen · #14 01-01-2008, 04:07 AM

I like Googi's idea.

Gothika · #15 01-01-2008, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

I like Googi's idea.

It won't warn people about who the scammers are which is the main point of this thread.

Googi · #16 01-01-2008, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

It won't warn people about who the scammers are which is the main point of this thread.

If there's a scamming accusation, everyone can just go look at the logs. If it's having a "list" you're worried about, anybody can make one (such lists exist for Pokemon trading on GameFAQs). I would trust a credible player-made list over a staff-made one.

Ziro_of_the_Turks · #17 01-01-2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

If there's a scamming accusation, everyone can just go look at the logs. If it's having a "list" you're worried about, anybody can make one (such lists exist for Pokemon trading on GameFAQs). I would trust a credible player-made list over a staff-made one.

There's a pokemon online now? :O
Is it just like playing the original red/blue pokemon with other people, but now you can play with the whole world?
This sounds badass.

DustyPorViva · #18 01-01-2008, 08:24 AM

lol... Pokemon Diamond/Pearl :P Been out for a LOOOONG time. Online battles, trading, and other stuff like that.

Sky · #19 01-01-2008, 07:48 PM

Oops, I put no by an accident I ment to say this is a good idea. D:

BigBear3 · #20 01-01-2008, 10:02 PM

There should be a confirmation on trade tables.

Gothika · #21 01-01-2008, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBear3

There should be a confirmation on trade tables.

What? Where something pops up and says "Are you sure?"

OasaTor_PK · #22 01-02-2008, 12:09 AM

Heres a way to solve scamming.

DTA - "Dont Trust Anyone"
Even your E-Boyfriends, or E-Girlfriends.

cbk1994 · #23 01-02-2008, 02:14 AM

It wouldn't hurt to have a "Are you sure you want to trade" on the trade tables.

BigBear3 · #24 01-02-2008, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

What? Where something pops up and says "Are you sure?"

Precisely. Maybe make it so it says. "Are you sure you want to trade [your items] for [their items] so newbs will know if people are faking an item on a table via hotkeys or fishing rod.

Gothika · #25 01-02-2008, 02:40 AM

Since when do poeple fall for the fishing rod trick anyway? I mean theres a dude with a rod and a clearly visable line going from his rod to the item WHICH you cannot left click on. You have to pretty damn stupid to fall for that one.

pooper200000 · #26 01-02-2008, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

You have to pretty damn stupid to fall for that one.

This is Graal... You would be suprised.

cbk1994 · #27 01-02-2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooper200000

This is Graal... You would be suprised.

Graal doesn't surprise.

Tigairius · #28 01-02-2008, 07:06 AM

I guess it should make you click the green flag once and wait 3-5 seconds and click it again.

ViperZakuto · #29 01-02-2008, 07:09 AM

that is an awsome idea. you could make it say some text over the flags. Like, are you sure? not too big. Just something small and to the point.

Gothika · #30 01-02-2008, 01:23 PM

Just making people aware of the methods used by scammers over regular PMs should be enough right? Basicly just tell them to always left click the item before they trade.

cbk1994 · #31 01-02-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

Just making people aware of the methods used by scammers over regular PMs should be enough right? Basicly just tell them to always left click the item before they trade.

But if they lag trade this wouldn't help unless they knew who was going to use that trick.

dNeonb · #32 01-02-2008, 06:31 PM

One thing that was completly missing in this thread is the following.

If a person scammed another person and this was reported and really proven that this was a scamm (USD trades don't count as one) the scammer is going to be banned.

But if he is banned he can not scamm another person. - But only those people should be on this list and no others!
I know of enough "scamms" which were no scamms just some USD traders who wanted their items back because they didn't get the money and we should not support this at all.

ViperZakuto · #33 01-02-2008, 09:02 PM

agreed

Googi · #34 01-02-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dNeonb

One thing that was completly missing in this thread is the following.

If a person scammed another person and this was reported and really proven that this was a scamm (USD trades don't count as one) the scammer is going to be banned.

But if he is banned he can not scamm another person. - But only those people should be on this list and no others!
I know of enough "scamms" which were no scamms just some USD traders who wanted their items back because they didn't get the money and we should not support this at all.

Still no reason not to make trade table logs publicly viewable.

dNeonb · #35 01-02-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Still no reason not to make trade table logs publicly viewable.

I don't see a good enough reason to make these logs available for players.

Edit:
I just talked to Stefan about it and he said that the logs should not be visible for players, too.

cbk1994 · #36 01-03-2008, 01:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dNeonb

I don't see a good enough reason to make these logs available for players.

Edit:
I just talked to Stefan about it and he said that the logs should not be visible for players, too.

I think it'd just be easier to ban anyone who USDs, and then add a confirmation to trading.

Tracker180 · #37 01-03-2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dNeonb

I don't see a good enough reason to make these logs available for players.

I don't see a good reason to not make them available to players

Gothika · #38 01-03-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

I think it'd just be easier to ban anyone who USDs, and then add a confirmation to trading.

They can't bann people who USD, only if they advertise it over graal.
Otherwise they don't have any hardcore proof. Thats the way it's been im afraid.

Tracker180 · #39 01-03-2008, 03:04 AM

that's probably why i see so many people massing "trading multiple items over AIM, MSn, etc.," they are probably usding

ViperZakuto · #40 01-03-2008, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

They can't bann people who USD, only if they advertise it over graal.
Otherwise they don't have any hardcore proof. Thats the way it's been im afraid.

they could make it illegal to advertise trading over any instant messanger. =O

View Poll Results: Is this a good idea?
Yes, it's a good idea.	27	65.85%
It's an ok idea, but it jeopardizes people's privacy or... (state below)	5	12.20%
No, I don't like this idea.	9	21.95%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll