Work in Progress Level...

Kittah · #1 12-08-2006, 05:39 AM

It's been a while since I've pulled out the Level Editor (or indeed, played Graal - it took a bit of doing to actually get it installed and working even!) but I'm sufficiently bored (and have sold my gaming rig so cannot play my usual games) enough to get back to Graal. To that end I've started making this level, which I'm posting to try and get myself to finish it.

Otherwise I guess it's just to show you all 'what I've got' sort of thing. Still needs detailing, so remember it's Work in Progress and is not really remotely finished.

Anyway, err... enjoy?

Devil · #2 12-08-2006, 05:40 AM

I really like it so far. Keep it up.

zim5354 · #3 12-08-2006, 05:47 AM

its good i just dont like the bottom lower right part (idk why though) but its still pretty good.

Kittah · #4 12-08-2006, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zim5354

its good i just dont like the bottom lower right part (idk why though) but its still pretty good.

Looking at it I can understand why, I actually agree now you mention it. I think perhaps it's just too bland compared with the rest... I'll see what I can think up to try and make it look better

Thanks for the comments, last time I dropped in people were all 'OMG that sucks its so boring whats the point of showing that?!11!', though perhaps now people are just glad to see some activity

Crono · #5 12-08-2006, 03:54 PM

Circled some tile errors for you.

The level would be a bit better if you didn't make so many holes in the trees. A few are fine but you kind of overdid that.

Detail, come on. Don't be lazy.

The dirt path looks alright.

Overall 5/10, if you do some good detailing and fix the things i told you to, should be 6/10 which is good.

Kittah · #6 12-08-2006, 05:37 PM

I would argue that 80-90% of those marked as tile errors aren't (ie. the ones that join on the inside corners) as if you compare it to how most people do their joins there, it actually ends a lot nicer. I'd upload a shot to show it but my mouse has gone missing and tiling with a laptop touchpad blows, so I'll try to explain in words...

Basically if you continue the bottom tile along into the inside corner join it ends in a vertical straight line, whereas the way I do it makes it more rounded and while it doesn't look perfect I feel it looks a lot smoother and more natural than merely continuing with that one tile. Again, it's not an error as it fits as well as the alternative but is a matter of tiling taste.

Cheers for the comment and errors though, some of those I'll admit are oversights

I'll try and find my mouse and get the darn thing finished and then you'll all see, muahahaha!

Galdor · #7 12-08-2006, 08:02 PM

Looks good =)

Eagle · #8 12-08-2006, 08:21 PM

Coolio. =]

Crono · #9 12-08-2006, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittah

I would argue that 80-90% of those marked as tile errors aren't (ie. the ones that join on the inside corners) as if you compare it to how most people do their joins there, it actually ends a lot nicer.

There is a correct tile that goes there without any problems. Yours are actually tile errors because they obviously don't belong there. It just stands out too much to flow anyway. If you need help just ask.

zell12 · #10 12-08-2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Circled some tile errors for you.

The level would be a bit better if you didn't make so many holes in the trees. A few are fine but you kind of overdid that.

Detail, come on. Don't be lazy.

The dirt path looks alright.

Overall 5/10, if you do some good detailing and fix the things i told you to, should be 6/10 which is good.

Its only the start of his level, slow down Conan.

Also, some of them are tileerrors, and some arent avoidable unless you made your own tiles to fit there... But there are still shadows where they shouldn't be along the bottom of the cliffs, that infact can be fixed with the default tiles.

Crono · #11 12-09-2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

Its only the start of his level, slow down Conan.

Woops, forgot about the whole "Work in Progress" sorry Kittah. But please do the cliff things I told you to. It would look tons better.

Kittah · #12 12-09-2006, 07:10 AM

I still maintain that they're not tile errors, so I won't be changing them. I've attached a screenshot to show what I mean showing how most people tile the inside corner and how I tile the inside corner.

As you see, left is my style while right is 'other' style. The bottom shows how I feel it is more consistent. The red line indicates the sort of border of the shadow when it goes from diagonal cliffs to vertical. On the left this is consistent with the 'top' of the inside corner, while on the right this is inconsistent and in my opinion looks less correct.

Honestly though, the cliff tiles are extremely poorly done and really need fixing for consistency - both styles are actually slightly wrong or 'off' because of this. As I said I don't consider either tile errors but merely a taste thing. As an aside I had to do that shot with the touchpad, I can find no damn trace of my mouse

zim5354 · #13 12-09-2006, 08:21 AM

yea kittahs looks better then the real tiles, the transition is better. well imho atleast.

Kittah · #14 12-09-2006, 09:12 AM

Here's an update - I suppose I'd call it finished though there's no doubt a million ways it could look better. For now I'm finished with it and I think I'm eyeing up ideas in my head for something to keep me occupied, perhaps a miniature overworld or something.

As for the level, I'm sure you see my style is really quite Classic-esque. I really grew up (in terms of Graal!) between 1.3-4 (started in 1.28

) so Classic is ultimately the style that governed and continues to govern the way I make levels. I'm not a huge fan of throwing in large amounts of 'marsh' tiles and as you see by my path I'm not a fan of the 'defined' (blacklined) grass-sand tiles nor their grass-grass equivalents for detail. Nice and simple is my philosophy.

I think I fixed the tile errors (at least, the ones Crono and I agree upon

) though I've probably been lazy and forgotten something

Suffice to say I'm happy with it at a glance

WanDaMan · #15 12-09-2006, 09:52 AM

Not bad at all, I like the tree formation incline with the cliffs!

WanDaMan · #16 12-09-2006, 10:01 AM

Sorry for double post

I'm not fussy when it comes to the small cliffs, they look good either way. Anyway, the big cliff, let's compare; I've attached one of mine and circled in yellow the bits you need to concentrate on. Ugh, I'm no good at explaining anything but I guess it's pretty obvious on what I'd suggest you need to be working on...

Crono · #17 12-09-2006, 05:29 PM

Wan, I don't get it.

Kittah · #18 12-09-2006, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Sorry for double post

I'm not fussy when it comes to the small cliffs, they look good either way. Anyway, the big cliff, let's compare; I've attached one of mine and circled in yellow the bits you need to concentrate on. Ugh, I'm no good at explaining anything but I guess it's pretty obvious on what I'd suggest you need to be working on...

I have to admit, it kind of makes two of us when Crono said he doesn't get it.

My only guess is how smooth the 'top layer' of the cliffs is? That's the only thing I can see, and you're right in regard to the right hand set you squared in the shot of my level - they're something I missed. Failing that, I guess you'd have to try and explain

Crono · #19 12-09-2006, 07:01 PM

The only difference I see is that wan likes to start with the "thin line" on the top layer of the cliffs while you start with the "thick line". When I say start im reading from right to left. Don't ask why.

Kittah · #20 12-09-2006, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

The only difference I see is that wan likes to start with the "thin line" on the top layer of the cliffs while you start with the "thick line". When I say start im reading from right to left. Don't ask why.

Yeah, I noticed that also but I think the important thing is alternating them (which I realised while making the level but missed where Wan had squared out on the level). On the one hand the thicker one looks correct in one place but not the other, while the thin looks correct in the other place but not the one, if you catch my meaning

*shakes fist*
Darn you pics1.png!

WanDaMan · #21 12-09-2006, 07:58 PM

I told you I'm no good at explaining stuff ^^;

Kittah · #22 12-09-2006, 08:03 PM

Ah well, perhaps you'll see it done properly on my next few levels. I threw together a very rough 5x5 map with the levelgen just for playing around with so I've got a bit of work to keep me busy. Who knows, it may even grow afterwards

WanDaMan · #23 12-09-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittah

Ah well, perhaps you'll see it done properly on my next few levels. I threw together a very rough 5x5 map with the levelgen just for playing around with so I've got a bit of work to keep me busy. Who knows, it may even grow afterwards

I can't wait! Can we have a sneek peek?

Crono · #24 12-09-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

I told you I'm no good at explaining stuff

;

Wrong. You taught me how to properly tile cliffs and did a good job explaining it.

Luda · #25 12-09-2006, 10:02 PM

Wan I like how you made those extra little cliffs on the mountain

may I use them in future levels?

btw nice level Kittah!

Kittah · #26 12-10-2006, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Can we have a sneek peek?

Oh... well, just for you then

It's 'as-generated' right now, so don't be discouraged!

First things will be to mess up those cliffs (I don't intend them to be straight but form more of a cupped bay) and that forest. I'm not sure what I'll throw in, but I think there'll be some nifty cliffwork in there and a small town. I guess I'll go for a bit of many things as a start.

Devil · #27 12-10-2006, 06:15 AM

Looking forward to the progress.

Kittah · #28 12-10-2006, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

Looking forward to the progress.

So am I - it currently looks horrible!

I'll probably make a new thread about it when I've got something to show

WanDaMan · #29 12-10-2006, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luda

Wan I like how you made those extra little cliffs on the mountain

may I use them in future levels?

btw nice level Kittah!

=O! Why not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kittah

It's 'as-generated' right now, so don't be discouraged!

First things will be to mess up those cliffs (I don't intend them to be straight but form more of a cupped bay) and that forest. I'm not sure what I'll throw in, but I think there'll be some nifty cliffwork in there and a small town. I guess I'll go for a bit of many things as a start.

Impressive! I love the stages of development, it show's how you work. I use the level generator as a guide for the things I want to place in the future, instead of starting with a green canvas I'd rather start with something to follow, easier and a lot faster to get things done! Don't disgard this map, try adding some of your own material too it such as pre-made tiles etc. I could show you over MSN if you're wanting to learn more about it.

Kittah · #30 12-10-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Impressive! I love the stages of development, it show's how you work. I use the level generator as a guide for the things I want to place in the future, instead of starting with a green canvas I'd rather start with something to follow, easier and a lot faster to get things done! Don't disgard this map, try adding some of your own material too it such as pre-made tiles etc. I could show you over MSN if you're wanting to learn more about it.

Thank'ee - it would be my pleasure so consider yourself PMed

I quite agree on the use of the editor too, I did consider starting with just a completely green gmap but decided against it for the same reasons you mentioned. It makes it much easier when you have a basic guide to follow and even in terms of the basic cliff and tree layout, it's easier to tidy up than create from scratch.

There's also a small update as I added the sort of fringe areas of the forest. It doesn't look quite... correct I guess? on the map, but I like the effect in the levels themselves. Anyway, it's progress - ultimately its the detailing that will take time as it's the most monotonous and dull thing to be doing.

Crono · #31 12-10-2006, 08:33 PM

Can we see some ingame shots?

Devil · #32 12-11-2006, 12:55 AM

It makes me want to get back into levelling!

Kittah · #33 12-11-2006, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Can we see some ingame shots?

Depends on progress

Maybe tonight if I start working on it more, though I've got language classes today so I'm supposed to be studying later... I'm sure we all know how that sort of thing works out

syltburk · #34 12-12-2006, 10:47 PM

Sucks.

Devil · #35 12-13-2006, 06:39 AM

Mr Happy just arrived, guys.

Kittah · #36 12-13-2006, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by syltburk

I suck.

QFT.

To everyone else, sorry for the lack of progress, it's been a buys last few days. Between filling out marriage documentation and applying for a Visa here in Japan along with language classes, free time's been sparse - there should be progress sometime though

Devil · #37 12-13-2006, 09:27 AM

So you're getting married to a Japanese person I guess :P

Kittah · #38 12-13-2006, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devil

So you're getting married to a Japanese person I guess :P

You'd guess correct - if you were to ask me, I'd tell you they're the best women in the world. Obviously I've told you even though you didn't ask

Anyway, on the topic I played around with a bit of cliff work tonight so a couple of pictures are in order I suppose. Enjoy... or not - your choice

You may notice the cliffwork is oddly a bit smoother - I edited my pics1.png slightly due to pics1's cliffs sucking.

Tom · #39 12-13-2006, 03:22 PM

Woah your really good X_x Where the heck did you appear from? lol

Kittah · #40 12-13-2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom

Woah your really good X_x Where the heck did you appear from? lol

I've been around for a while - this is a 'new' account (read: not exactly new but I'm now using it instead of my old account) and been making levels since not long after I started playing (back in 1.28 v2 I believe it was called).

Thanks for the praise though - have an update shot as my thanks

As I said I wanted to try throwing in a bit of everything into this map I'm thinking I'll build up the cliffs in the top right a lot and work in a sort of village up in some snow. It's just a matter of working it out right in my head first... perhaps I should draft up a bit of a map. As far as the left/bottom left is concerned I was thinking I'd throw in a sort of peninsula with an island off the tip of it, though I've no ideas on its contents yet.