Decline and effects

[Draenin]

Over the past few months, I've seen a lot of people quitting Kingdoms. A lot of really awesome people, and a lot of not-so awesome people, too. But regardless of what I may think of each, people are leaving, and I think that soon, if the population shift on Graal's servers doesn't wind up settling, there may be one of two different futures for Kingdoms.

Kingdoms: Dark Future
The first future would be the darker of the two. Eventually, due to a lack of updates and fixes, Kingdoms may eventually die in terms of playercount. I am not saying this as a statement made toward administration, but more as a concrete fact. Newer, better servers with the same basic principles as another that actually recieve frequent updates quickly overshadow old ones, (as has been seen with 2k1) and there is nothing to keep the older server's community intact. Right now, from my knowledge, 2k2 is in control of an administrator who does not have the full capability to fix major problems that may arise, as well as creating minor changes to things as well, such as archetypes and other things of the sort. Unless something is changed in that respect, Kingdoms may not have much of a future left.

Kingdoms: Light Future
The second future could possibly be the better of the two, but that all depends on just how much the entire playerbase of Graal cares about Kingdoms within the next few months or so. As I've said, older players keep quitting, but that doesn't necessarily stop newer players from joining. What may happen is that the inequality between players will begin to shrink, as long as no abusable bugs arise. A former GST once told me, the number of individual players may steadily fall, but the playercount will continue to rise, and that phenomenon might happen sooner than we think. But again, it really depends on how the reaction to something new will drive things.



The point I am trying to make is this, and I'm mainly addressing Stefan:

Kingdoms can be dealt with in one of two ways; either keep things as they are and let nothing but fortune have its way with the fate of the server, or give it guidance by bestowing permissions on the people who have been put in the position that is supposed to make a difference with the server, but instead cannot at the moment. I know that things were sort of like that in the past, and that there were some issues, but it just might be the thing that boosts the number of people who decide that maybe (just maybe) the Gold servers are actually worth upgrading for.

[Googi]

I don't think the rate of players quitting has increased significantly (although more updates or some other change could certainly decrease it.) The new drop in playercount is caused mainly by no new players joining, which has nothing to do with updates, but rather a drop in gold subscriptions (Zone seems to be having the same problem), though I don't know why such a drop is occuring.

[Draenin]

Well, players aren't quitting suddenly, because there's nothing that would make them want to quickly do so, but there's not anything to attract them, either, and I sort of feel bad for the management sometimes, because some changes just can't be made without Stefan.

[sage_scooby]

Bleah, the new Classic server is whats causing the drop in players. When the buzz is over GK will gain some back.

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by Googi

though I don't know why such a drop is occuring.

Because people are getting tired of PAYING for Graalonline's bull****. Why pay to play Graal Kingdoms when administration doesn't give one damn about it? They won't release new items, or monsters, or fix any of the old incomplete stuff. Not to mention the total incompetance of the staff. Look at this guy, MechEagle. He spend over a year earning stuff on his account, and he lost his pass, so he bought a new account. How ****ing hard is it to move his hard earned stats over, its not like he's getting to use it twice. He's just getting what he spent hours achieving.



Well done, Graalonline. This is our $44 at work.

Originally Posted by sage_scooby

Bleah, the new Classic server is whats causing the drop in players. When the buzz is over GK will gain some back.

Its nothing about a buzz. People would just rather get better gameplay, actual updates, and competent staff..... FOR FREE.


Also Drae, I Don't see the point in you making this thread. I thought of posting a thread like this, but I knew you would post and tell me it would make no difference. Chuck Norris will shed a few tears when somehthing productive is done to GK, and No, I don't mean adding a few retarted pubs, or renovating and re-renovating them.

[hampy]

Originally Posted by sage_scooby

Bleah, the new Classic server is whats causing the drop in players. When the buzz is over GK will gain some back.

Yep, zodiac sucks GKs playercount will be back soon. Its the same with Mal

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by Luigi203

Best Rant Ever

Mag, I couldn't have said it better or agree with you any more.

Originally Posted by hampy

Yep, zodiac sucks GKs playercount will be back soon. Its the same with Mal

And that explains why people are quitting and not reupgrading?

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by luigi203

Also Drae, I Don't see the point in you making this thread. I thought of posting a thread like this, but I knew you would post and tell me it would make no difference.

No, I would post and tell you that posts like this make no difference:

Originally Posted by luigi203

Because people are getting tired of PAYING for Graalonline's bull****. Why pay to play Graal Kingdoms when administration doesn't give one damn about it? They won't release new items, or monsters, or fix any of the old incomplete stuff. Not to mention the total incompetance of the staff. Look at this guy, MechEagle. He spend over a year earning stuff on his account, and he lost his pass, so he bought a new account. How ****ing hard is it to move his hard earned stats over, its not like he's getting to use it twice. He's just getting what he spent hours achieving.

Well done, Graalonline. This is our $44 at work.

Its nothing about a buzz. People would just rather get better gameplay, actual updates, and competent staff..... FOR FREE.

You pay to play, and so you also simultaneously agree to deal with whatever the game may be like. But you also gain the opportunity to make the game better, too. That's why you put forth the money in the first place. Otherwise, you come to the decision that you are dissatisfied, and choose not to renew, which is what seems to be going on now.

A lot of the people in this thread have also not been paying attention to the possibility of greater player equality that may arise, nor to the fact that the manager's ability to update is limited. So before you go off and spam up the thread with STAFF DOESN'T DO ANYTHING, actually take heed to what I'm saying, rather than blurting out whatever frustrations you have.

I didn't make this thread to make any stupid spam bandwagon statements like DOWN WITH STAFF LOL, it's more like 'up with staff.' It seems that not a lot of people realize that the manager really doesn't have all that much control over fixing or updating things like they should be. Kingdoms is essentially run and updated by Stefan, and the same goes for Zone. That's why the updates aren't that frequent. Managers chip in to work on the major projects and fixes, but major projects take a long time to do, so the updates don't happen as often as players might like.

[hampy]

Originally Posted by Waltz5

And that explains why people are quitting and not reupgrading?

Yes because crappy playerworlds who shouldnt even be on the hosted list, and deffinatley not on the classic list get approved because we have corrupt globals helping friends out by approving their crappy servers

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by hampy

Yes because crappy playerworlds who shouldnt even be on the hosted list, and deffinatley not on the classic list get approved because we have corrupt globals helping friends out by approving their crappy servers

Most of the servers on the classic list are on the list for a reason. There's a bit more to the process of getting a playerworld to classic or hosted than you may realize.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Luigi203

Because people are getting tired of PAYING for Graalonline's bull****. Why pay to play Graal Kingdoms when administration doesn't give one damn about it? They won't release new items, or monsters, or fix any of the old incomplete stuff.

This doesn't matter to new players. For a new player, everything on the server is new whether it was added last week or added four years ago.

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by Draenin

You pay to play, and so you also simultaneously agree to deal with whatever the game may be like. That's why you put forth the money in the first place. Otherwise, you come to the decision that you are dissatisfied, and choose not to renew, which is what seems to be going on now. A lot of the people in this thread have also not been paying attention to the possibility of greater player equality that may arise, nor to the fact that the manager's ability to update is limited. So before you go off and spam up the thread with STAFF DOESN'T DO ANYTHING, actually take heed to what I'm saying, rather than blurting out whatever frustrations you have. I didn't make this thread to make any stupid spam bandwagon statements like DOWN WITH STAFF LOL, it's more like 'up with staff.' It seems that not a lot of people realize that the manager really doesn't have all that much control over fixing or updating things like they should be. Kingdoms is essentially run and updated by Stefan, and the same goes for Zone. That's why the updates aren't that frequent. Managers chip in to work on the major projects and fixes, but major projects take a long time to do, so the updates don't happen as often as players might like.

First off, I read and paid attention to what you wrote, the least you could do is do the same to me. Go back to my post, notice how I addressed the administration and Graalonline itself, rather than the Management -- Bjorn. I'm not making "bandwagon statements" like "DOWN WITH THE STAFF", rather, I'm educating the oblivious as to why Graal Kingdoms is dying, because they think that Zodiac killed GK, and they're right about that, but Zodiac is only a fraction of the problem.

[hampy]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Most of the servers on the classic list are on the list for a reason. There's a bit more to the process of getting a playerworld to classic or hosted than you may realize.

Nah my playerworld has been on the hosted list before, i was told by PWA at the time that i would need to secure some scripts and then i should be able to go classic later on that month but my family had to move house so i quit graal and the playerworld died

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by luigi203

First off, I read and paid attention to what you wrote, the least you could do is do the same to me. Go back to my post, notice how I addressed the administration and Graalonline itself, rather than the Management -- Bjorn. I'm not making "bandwagon statements" like "DOWN WITH THE STAFF", rather, I'm educating the oblivious as to why Graal Kingdoms is dying, because they think that Zodiac killed GK, and they're right about that, but Zodiac is only a fraction of the problem.

But you brought up the issue of money, which is usually the very first thing mentioned from people with anti-graal sentiments, and it really doesn't help the point you are trying to get across. Even if you are trying to address Stefan or otherwise directly, please also realize that Stefan often has a lot of other things to do. Stefan does most of the fixes, (And I've seen him doing them.) but he is usually the only one doing the fixes, because he is the only one capable of correcting things. Even though it might seem risky, there needs to be someone who can do the fixes and updates (namely dNeonb, the manager) besides Stefan himself.

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by Draenin

But you brought up the issue of money, which is usually the very first thing mentioned from people with anti-graal sentiments, and it really doesn't help the point you are trying to get across. Even if you are trying to address Stefan or otherwise directly, please also realize that Stefan often has a lot of other things to do. Stefan does most of the fixes, (And I've seen him doing them.) but he is usually the only one doing the fixes, because he is the only one capable of correcting things. Even though it might seem risky, there needs to be someone who can do the fixes and updates (namely dNeonb, the manager) besides Stefan himself.

Yea, I brought up the money, because it DOES bring the point across. Here it is in a nutshell: Why pay money to be bored on a virtually inactive playerworld when you. If it common players realize that Kingdoms is dying due to the fact that only Stefan can really add content, then Stefan himself should realize its time to employ productive staff, who, get this -- actually have power to make a difference and stop with the bone-headed GP's. The playercount is so low, there isn't even a need for them.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by luigi203

Yea, I brought up the money, because it DOES bring the point across.

Much as you might think it does, it really doesn't.

Originally Posted by luigi203

If it common players realize that Kingdoms is dying due to the fact that only Stefan can really add content, then Stefan himself should realize its time to employ productive staff, who, get this -- actually have power to make a difference and stop with the bone-headed GP's.

I've known a lot of staff that can be productive on Kingdoms Debug, but it's kind of hard to produce content when you're not allowed to.

Originally Posted by luigi203

The playercount is so low, there isn't even a need for them.

Low playercount doesn't mean that rules will not be broken.

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Much as you might think it does, it really doesn't.

What you're saying is, money is irrelevant. I guess if GK went classic today, nobody would play it

Originally Posted by Draenin

I've known a lot of staff that can be productive on Kingdoms Debug, but it's kind of hard to produce content when you're not allowed to.

Hey, this brings us right back to Stefan. Scripters, Level makers, Graphic designers are (or were, maybe they got tired of thier work being wastd) at the ready. All it takes is Stefan to get up and say "Hey, lets do something about this." We all know he's a busy man. If he can't handle the task, he needs to trust his Management with enough rights to do so.

Originally Posted by Draenin

Low playercount doesn't mean that rules will not be broken.

Low playercount does't MEAN anything. As you said, Some Awesome people quit, and some not-so-awesome. You didn't notice the decline in crime as the playercount dwindled?


Once again, I'm not trying to be anti-graal, or any of that. Its more of a cry for help, if anything. Seeing my favorate server, the server I've put the most effort into go down the drain like this.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by luigi203

What you're saying is, money is irrelevant.

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by luigi203

I guess if GK went classic today, nobody would play it

Haha, are you kidding me?

Originally Posted by luigi203

If he can't handle the task

Oh, Stefan can handle it alright, but it might not be as much as people would like.

Originally Posted by luigi203

he needs to trust his Management with enough rights to do so.

Yeah, that's sort of what I've been getting at.

Originally Posted by luigi203

You didn't notice the decline in crime as the playercount dwindled?

The correlation between population and illegal activity doesn't match up quite as much as the correlation between illegal activity and abusable bugs or game mechanics.

Originally Posted by luigi203

Once again, I'm not trying to be anti-graal, or any of that.

Yeah, I know. I was just saying to not bother aiming at the money aspect of things. that's such an unimportant aspect of the game itself it's not even funny.

[Torankusu]

Originally Posted by Luigi203

Yea, I brought up the money, because it DOES bring the point across. Here it is in a nutshell: Why pay money to be bored on a virtually inactive playerworld when you. If it common players realize that Kingdoms is dying due to the fact that only Stefan can really add content, then Stefan himself should realize its time to employ productive staff, who, get this -- actually have power to make a difference and stop with the bone-headed GP's. The playercount is so low, there isn't even a need for them.

Mag, you have been around graal for a long time, I know this. I dont know if you were part of the Graal 2001 playerbase when it first came out as well, but it went into the same pattern that Graal 2002 (Kingdoms) has fallen into.

Stefan will stay interested in the playerworld for the developmental stages. Once it is running properly, he will add a few nice things he's made (2k1: Fish Quest, Bomy Moon, etc) (GK: A new Island [main island], boats to kingdom islands instead of the bells, Working Spells/Alchemy, etc).

On the other hand, he also has to worry about the game's executable files also. I.e. Graal v4 RevXX, etc. He is the only one coding them, I am assuming. This in itself is a very big task because debugging is absolutely necessary, and its almost impossible for him to focus all of his working-time on things like Kingdoms and Zone (which is also dying now).

So, Mag is right. The problem lies within a lack of able-bodied and able-minded staff to run the game properly. This is one reason that I only play (Upgrade) during the summer time. I save my 44$ and only pay 19 for the 3 months that I MIGHT play if i don't get too bored.

I agree with your points 100%. Bjorn/Sam are useless because they seem to be wasting their time with BULLSHIT. (TWO pubs who are un-supported because of the lack of playerbase, AND one of the two was renovated). Where the hell are new maps? Where the hell are the new quests we should have people creating since they are there to develop? Where the hell is anything NEW that is any kind of fun for anyone but Bjorn or Sam?

Bjorn and Sam might not have the ability to add new things, but from what I know they have most of the abilities they need to:
-Add new levels
-Add new event items
Wait, that seems like it should be enough to update the server with some good content.

So, in most professional job situations, if your employee was not doing his job as well as he should be, one would terminate him after making him aware of the lack of good ****. So, my concern is why is it that they are trying to run a business without a sense of business when it comes to WHO is working for them and WHAT they are doing (or not doing for that matter).

[UltimatheChosen]

I just started playing last month, and although the game is a lot of fun, I am disheartened at the lack of updates. When I open up the graalonline.com webpage and see as the most recent update "Graal Staff wishes players a Merry Christmas", part of me wants to laugh and the other part wants to cry. And I agree that very few people care too much about the taverns. All right, so they're novel. It's a player run thing (woohoo?). But honestly, they sell food. Great. For new players like myself, what is far more important than food (I bake a lot of bread whenever I get low on food) is an active staff who responds to comments and does things for those who pay for a GOLD subscription. When I pay 44 dollars, I expect more than two or three taverns. If the owners want to redesign, fine. But it is hardly a major update. I consider that along the same lines as fixing typos or maybe a few bugs. By no means is it a huge accomplishment.

[Craigus]

It takes regular updates to keep players intrested, Graal kingdoms of course lacks this and is why i no longer pay for it. If i buy a game from a shop i pay for all the content on the disc i complete it put the game back on the shelf probably never open it again, if i pay a monthly/yearly fee for a game i am paying for the content to be updated often. I will probably never renew my graal subscription because of this.

[UltimatheChosen]

As much as it saddens me to say this, he is right. Now, very few people, if any, will renew a gold subscription. Why should they, when they don't receive any benefit from it? As the higher paying customers, we expect more, NOT less.

[Waltz5]

If I was Unix or Stefan, this would concern me:

[smirt362]

I've played GK before, and honestly, I wasn't that impressed.

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by UltimatheChosen

As much as it saddens me to say this, he is right. Now, very few people, if any, will renew a gold subscription. Why should they, when they don't receive any benefit from it? As the higher paying customers, we expect more, NOT less.

Originally Posted by Craigus

It takes regular updates to keep players intrested, Graal kingdoms of course lacks this and is why i no longer pay for it. If i buy a game from a shop i pay for all the content on the disc i complete it put the game back on the shelf probably never open it again, if i pay a monthly/yearly fee for a game i am paying for the content to be updated often. I will probably never renew my graal subscription because of this.

Hey look, Drae. Maybe the money IS an important factor...!

[MasterNuke]

GK lacks stable progression, itemization, and activities as you progress levels. New players are often turned away as they will immediately encounter boring never-ending grinding within an hour of entering the game.

I've been playing on GK for maybe 4 years+. But, it feels like GK hasn't progressed much at all. A lot of things are just plain terrible now and I even see some NPCs falling apart if that is possible.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

I've been playing on GK for maybe 4 years+. But, it feels like GK hasn't progressed much at all. A lot of things are just plain terrible now and I even see some NPCs falling apart if that is possible.

Yeah, it is possible. I remember what happened to the train back on...

Oh wait, nevermind.

Originally Posted by luigi203

Hey look, Drae. Maybe the money IS an important factor...!

Hey look, Mag. Maybe it's the last sentence on the first post I made in this thread:

Originally Posted by Draenin

I know that things were sort of like that in the past, and that there were some issues, but it just might be the thing that boosts the number of people who decide that maybe (just maybe) the Gold servers are actually worth upgrading for.

I know that people not reupgrading is an issue, but it's not the only issue, and you come off sounding like a liquored-up hick when you say stuff like "I PAID MY 44 DOLLARS I DEMAND ME SOME SERVICE Y'HEAR?"

[Luigi203]

Originally Posted by Draenin

I know that people not reupgrading is an issue, but it's not the only issue, and you come off sounding like a liquored-up hick when you say stuff like "I PAID MY 44 DOLLARS I DEMAND ME SOME SERVICE Y'HEAR?"

I guess its a good thing I never said that. Y'hear.

[Craigus]

Well although i mentioned the cost its not the problem to me i now pay alot more for the game i currently play and would not come back to graal if it was free, as a gamer i now expect regular updates + new content and for quality i don't mind paying for it Graal i think now attracts a different market, seeing as it is player run and not really supported/updated it needs to be free and this is why you see such small record low playercounts. People that are prepared to pay for a game have a better deal elsewhere.

[Draenin]

You wanna pay for CJ server and bandwidth costs instead? I'm sure they'd make it free then.

[AlaricoMontario]

Wow at $80-$90 USD/6 Months

Is Greater Than (>)

Graal, $40/12 Months

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by AlaricoMontario

Wow at $80-$90 USD/6 Months

Is Greater Than (>)

Graal, $40/12 Months

But it's also produced by an entirely different industry. You have to remember that.

[Craigus]

Originally Posted by Draenin

You wanna pay for CJ server and bandwidth costs instead? I'm sure they'd make it free then.

I admit i do not know much about these cost issues but i can tell you that similar games to graal (that in general attract the younger audience) are often free, everytime i have payed a monthly/yearly fee for a game i see regular updates. Kingdoms used to get these regular updates i remember stefan sending a mass message weekly of all the new additions so it must be avaliable in thier budget.

[Draenin]

Updates don't cost a thing. Affording bandwidth charges and buying new servers to run does, though. (Which is why server rental is also not free.)

[4jordan4]

Wow , if you asked me i would think it's pretty obvious that the staff just need to get off their lazy ass and start updating the server more! Like that is most likely the problem. People are getting bored of GK , it has been egsactly the same for the 4 or 5 years it's been around . Staff need to make new levels and additions onto graal kingdoms if they want to look forward to more players coming back and playing.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by 4jordan4

if you asked me i would think it's pretty obvious that the staff just need to get off their lazy ass and start updating

egsactly

[4jordan4]

Shush lol , I've always hated spelling that dreadful word.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by 4jordan4

Wow , if you asked me i would think it's pretty obvious that the staff just need to get off their lazy ass and start updating the server more! Like that is most likely the problem.

Please take the time to actually read the thread before you post. I've already gone over the fact of why the server isn't updated often.

[Craigus]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Please take the time to actually read the thread before you post. I've already gone over the fact of why the server isn't updated often.

And i told you why the players are leaving, graal is in competition with other games and the other games give more to thier customers.

[Waltz5]

Originally Posted by Craigus

And i told you why the players are leaving, graal is in competition with other games and the other games give more to thier customers.

Yes sir.

For the first time I'm actively seeking out another game. I really only used to play Graal and console games. But now I feel the need to play another MMORPG, or whatever the abbreviations are.