Graals plan for disaster?

[centauriongod]

Id like people's comment on this, to see if they agree or disagree with me.

When stefan introduced www.graal.net and the possibility to buy yourself a server things went wrong for me, before this moment servers would get attention because 600 people played 8 servers wich of 200 people knew how to develop, so every server got full attention and lots of updates because every server whas rare and valuable.
Nowadays we can buy servers for an awfull amount (I understand that this has to cover alot of costs tho... but I think that 40~70 USD would be more reasonable) but funny enough people are prepared to buy a server, they end up not finding staff and being to inexperienced and unmotivated to actually make it work out.
Imagine, when you want to buy a server first you need classic, in order to get classic you also have to buy gold with it wich I find so unbelievably stupid, next you need to have VIP and then buy a server, this comes to a total of $140~$160 and this is what kids of 14 pay for with their paperboy jobs. The only good thing about this is that there wont be any more useless empty servers as there already are.

Next thing is that all people that want to help out have to buy the exact same things except for the server ofcourse, so it is really hard to find staff for your server, stand alone EXPERIENCED STAFF. Seen to the fact that a server needs atleast 10 developpers that are motivated, experienced and serious about their jobs.

I would say that when graal wants more players they should get their server quality up, only way to do such things is to make it easier for people to become staff on other servers, take out the need to be VIP to go to hosted and private servers to become staff, and take out the classic+gold packages or make it atleast classic+FREE GOLD or classic WITHOUT GOLD AT ALL!

At the start this will earn stefan and unixmad less, but if graal's gameplay quality will become better, and also graphics ofcourse.. more people will tend to play graal.

Leave comments please

[haro41]

At the start this will earn stefan and unixmad less

thats pretty much all that matters. why risk a good thing? hell it might not be what it could be, but its better than nothing.

developing a graal playerworld is a hobby to people. In the beginning they are obsessed with it. but like all hobbies, they get tired of it and move on. They move on to WOW.

[Mogwai]

Originally Posted by haro41

thats pretty much all that matters. why risk a good thing? hell it might not be what it could be, but its better than nothing.

Eventually it will go up, way up if quality continues.

[Crono]

The server buying system ****ed up Graal's server community. No one cares if a server is being developed anymore, no one cares if a server makes it to "private". Graal lacks developers, motivated people, and fun. In my opinion the only fun server is Zone because its not like the other ****ty PW's and the only server I feel worth developing for is Babylon because its run by a motivated manager + actually has things planned.

[SilentOne1988]

Originally Posted by Gerami

The server buying system ****ed up Graal's server community. No one cares if a server is being developed anymore, no one cares if a server makes it to "private". Graal lacks developers, motivated people, and fun. In my opinion the only fun server is Zone because its not like the other ****ty PW's and the only server I feel worth developing for is Babylon because its run by a motivated manager + actually has things planned.

Did you expect people to be motivated by giving Stefan and Unix money?

[Elk]

Lol Dude you don't understand the concept centaurion.
"It should be easier to become Staff on other servers" You know, there is MSN and you can talk over all at MSN with the Manager, what to do and stuff.
Or do you just want rights?
If you take away the Graal Gold system. With what money would you pay the traffic for the Servers?
Omg...

[centauriongod]

Originally Posted by Elk

You know, there is MSN and you can talk over all at MSN with the Manager, what to do and stuff.
Or do you just want rights?
If you take away the Graal Gold system. With what money would you pay the traffic for the Servers?
Omg...

Ok first of all, when you dont even have to ability to see who is online or even ask an MSN, because thats how it is then how would you be able to talk over MSN.
Second, even if you can get everyone on MSN you have 200 other contacts constantly bothering you (wich is the case for me personally).
Third, yes, i think that giving staff rights after several periods works out as a motivation for them, rights DO matter and make working for a server easier.
Fourth, when your able to go online on the server you can actually test your scripts and levels and fix them and enjoy that you actually developped something and be proud of the result, developping goes faster this way at it motivates the staff.
And last, you dont have to depend on other people to be online on MSN AND willing to transfer data over MSN (wich goes TERRIBLY SLOWLY by the way) and then put it online on RC.

How much fun is it to only be on MSN and make levels offline and see them go over MSN, people dont get paid to be staff... so they do it for fun: it has to be fun to be able to work out.

Edit:
Oh and Krakken, I totally understand you but my piont is that the system cant work like this as you say later in your post.
They could make servers more expensive but just get out the need of a VIP account for people to become staff.

[Yen]

Originally Posted by centauriongod

Third, yes, i think that giving staff rights after several periods works out as a motivation for them, rights DO matter and make working for a server easier.
Fourth, when your able to go online on the server you can actually test your scripts and levels and fix them and enjoy that you actually developped something and be proud of the result, developping goes faster this way at it motivates the staff.

If you don't give a good developer the level of RC they need, they'll spit in your face.
'Rewarding' staff with rights only works for GPs and other skill-less individuals.
A good developer most likely won't care if they can see the results of their work. What matters is that the server moves along and develops at a decent rate.
The keyword here being good since there are a lot of people who pass themselves off as NATs, LATs, and GFX, with very little skill.

When I sit down to script something, I know exactly how it's going to function. I don't need to see it online to know what it will do, because I'm telling it exactly what I want it to do. What matters is that the server develops so what I created isn't going to waste.

[Krakken]

Right here is my 2 _pence_.

I don't think you understand how much Cyberjoueurs sacrifice in order to provide this service to you. Maybe, by your judgement, Cyberjoueurs should cease playerworld hosting. They have to keep everything running still, so the only obvious alternative is to increase account cover costs to approximately double what they are now, you'd prefer that?

In regards to the hosting, the price they charge is a miniscule amount for the time and service you get. From no other game would you get these sorts of amazing deals. Plus, it's down to the server owner and their team whether or not the server makes it or not so they are the ones to blame here if anyone.

Most of the best developers refuse to work on hosted projects so there is not really any drain on the game currently. The reason for the decline is that most of the early developers have grown up and moved on and there hasn't been enough of a supply of new people to take their place.

I do actually agree that hosting and spreading of servers has really impacted on the player base in a negative way. I'd much rather have one or two servers that I know everyone would be dedicated to and develop for. I mean, from what I have seen of UN, Bomy Lands (2001) blows it out the water but no-one plays it... and why?... because their communities are already established on UN and I can't see that changing any time soon.

One thing I love about Graal is the social aspect. It's much different from any other games in that you can go on and have fun and know almost everyone on the server sometimes; it's like a big family online. Graal, I believe, needs to focus on that aspect some more in order to build it's future prospects.

And one other thing... you realise that you are somewhat contradicting yourself when you say you want to reduce the number of playerworlds but also want to reduce the prices that they can be bought for...

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Krakken

Most of the best developers refuse to work on hosted projects so there is not really any drain on the game currently. The reason for the decline is that most of the early developers have grown up and moved on and there hasn't been enough of a supply of new people to take their place.

I agree with most of that. I don't agree with this. The only half-decent scripters on Classic are Master Storm, Ibonic, GrowlZ, and myself. GrowlZ more freelances around a bit, Ibo doesn't participate in staff activity. Storm's activity got a buzz for a bit when we had a try to temporarily integrate his systems with the new ones I made (and we really need a Dev server so that we can really just switch the control NPC to my systems). Storm is away for a while, so that leaves me as Classic's only mainstream scripter. DC is getting a kick out of scripting for GC, and getting a bit of good experience, such that I'd actually like to recruit him for non-GC projects if he weren't unwilling. The only other scripter on the staff list is Yen, who forgets he is staff on Classic because he's working all over the place. I keep him there, though, because he's been more qualified than anyone else who has applied. So, if I need him, I'll try to get him.

I mean, people are making business scripting for developing PWs. Some of the PW owners are actually paying people to make tilesets, etc. It's not such a bad tactic. Unfortunately I don't have any money derrr... Yea, I'm absolutely not being paid for being LAT Admin.

I've spent a lot more time tiling the past week than I have scripting-- I can give you that. I also get involved in graphics a bit, but usually just cleaning up a graphic or making a prototype sprite to go by (ex. horses).

So yea, don't know anyone who can tile cliffs right except for myself. Maximus is the other person I know to do cliffs well... I think he may have quit or something. It's a shame, I respected his judgement more than he knew.

[Mafukie]

This thread is officially retarded. It was started by someone who has no basic business knowledge and Krakken's reply was the best one.

HELP I BOUGHT A PW BC I HAD AN IDEA AND NOW I CANNOT FIND ANYONE TO WORK FOR FREE ON IT ((((( THIS GAME IS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN!!!

I haven't found a server yet that appeals to me; Zone did before it was taken down for like half a year but now it dosn't anymore. So I just go on classic for 10 minuites and chat then log off.

[centauriongod]

Originally Posted by Mafukie

This thread is officially retarded. It was started by someone who has no basic business knowledge and Krakken's reply was the best one.

HELP I BOUGHT A PW BC I HAD AN IDEA AND NOW I CANNOT FIND ANYONE TO WORK FOR FREE ON IT ((((( THIS GAME IS GOING DOWN THE DRAIN!!!

I haven't found a server yet that appeals to me; Zone did before it was taken down for like half a year but now it dosn't anymore. So I just go on classic for 10 minuites and chat then log off.

Ive been playing this game since the start, and the only job I had whas NAT Admin on UN for 5 years, in the meanwhile ive helped some other servers and ran my own but thats long ago, oh and by the way keep these posts for yourself it just spoils the mood and its offtopic! thank you

[Mafukie]

Originally Posted by centauriongod

Ive been playing this game since the start, and the only job I had whas NAT Admin on UN for 5 years, in the meanwhile ive helped some other servers and ran my own but thats long ago, oh and by the way keep these posts for yourself it just spoils the mood and its offtopic! thank you

I'll post whatever I want, and I don't care what experience you have running servers; you still don't have any common business knowledge. Don't cut yourself.

[excaliber7388]

Another one of these threads? omg. Use search next time.
The growing number of playerworlds can be fustrating. I think graal should limit it by making sure they have a most of the overworld done, as well as many scripts. I made DR's overworld almost completely offline, as well as most of it's scripts. If other people had to do this, they would think twice before buying a server.

[Eagle]

They should raise the price for playerworlds... Not lower them.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Eagle

They should raise the price for playerworlds... Not lower them.

Akkkk, no!

[projectigi]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Akkkk, no!

I totally agree with him, they should raise the price, then less people open servers that will die...

[Warcaptain]

Originally Posted by projectigi

I totally agree with him, they should raise the price, then less people open servers that will die...

Raise the price of them, I totally agree.


BUT you should also allow classic accounts to access playerworlds they are staff on if you do this. Otherwise it simply becomes less and less fair. Three of my staff, the only graphics capable graphics people I could find able to do the kind of gfx I need.. dont have Gold/VIP so they cant even see their work used.

I really think that raising the price would be great BUT should make it a contract agreement.

IE:
1 Year PW - $10/month Would be $120

But you have to make sure you make it available to pay monthly.. its not easy for me, an adult just getting on my feet, to shell out that much money all at once.

PAY MONTHLY AND RAISE THE PRICE AND GIVE CLASSIC ACCCESS

is what im saying

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Eagle

They should raise the price for playerworlds... Not lower them.

I actually agree

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Eagle

They should raise the price for playerworlds... Not lower them.

I agree here. How many hosted PW's have gotten anywhere since paying for servers startd? 6? 7?

Higher price = less private servers = more WOAH LOOK COOL SERVER IN DEVELPOETMNN!!1

[Emily_Cruddas]

lots of folks that buy a PW probably do it because they want power and cannot get that power by being a staff on someone elses PW, or as someone stated they have ideas and don't realize that they may not have anyone looking to help once they do make the purchase.


There should be questions asked first, like "Is anyone interested in this project? I'll need X ammount of LATS or GATS any other skilled people in certain areas and we can make a server, here's my ideas." but with all the playerworlds being made and that have been made already the number of folks actually LOOKING for work is almost nothing ,or (this is really what some folks are like now, selfish and don't care about hurting others) those ideas would be stolen and used by someone else before the project gets underway, so those players want to protect an idea or two and make their own PW and only give the info to anyone they hire.

[protagonist]

I think a higher price would be a great idea.

It would centralize the development community more than it is right now.

[Elk]

i agree with prota***nist

[lancelot9]

140-160 USD to attract more players to the game. You paying to help Stefan and Unix. What good people we all are.
How retarted.

[MegaMasterX90875]

O_o Here's my take on this. [rant]First off, playerworlds can become great experience for those developers (like myself) out there. If you're just a regular player, it's really dumb to get a PW. I myself am considering purchasing a PW, because I'm a developer. And sometimes I ask for scripting/GFX help here and there but most of the time I can figure out stuff for myself. Again, if you're not gonna use a PW, don't buy one.
[/rant]

[DARKVILLIN]

I kind of think having to submit your server to get it UC was nice back in the day. I realize for developers (especially scripters) it can be a hastle because you can't test stuff serverside =/...I think all the inactive private/UW playerworlds should be taken off the server list...I understand there would be a huge issue with what servers would be allowed to stay...so that couldnt really work =/...I will agree, that the developers of graal are so spread out...and pretty much if we all came together, geeze what a server would be made. But then again...everyone's ideas are different and there would be no competition. I'm kinda lost on this subject and a decent solution as well

[coreys]

I agree with the stricter requirements for buying a server, there should be some way to be able to develop a small amount of a server without actually buying one to test stuff. Like a revision to graal editor, except more like an integration of RC and Client and the Ccurrent graal editor. You would log into it, all players have a specific area in one single large server and can develop and test things that only they can see. Then when they decide they want to have it tested to see if it can become a UC playerworld they can submit their request and account name, and someone like Stefan, Unix, or Spark could view their accounts serverspace and see if it is worthy. Of course this couldnt just happen entirely for free, I imagine this would cause gold/vip prices to go up a little, bot nothing drastic I would think.

I also agree with the monthly payment solution. But at a different way. private UC playerworlds should cost the most, 15-20 dollars a month. While hosted servers would cost 10-15 dollars a month. And then the classic servers wouldnt cost a thing, as normal, or for the unpopular classic servers (which shouldnt be classic in the first place) would maybe pay $5-10 a month.

[napo_p2p]

Originally Posted by coreys

I agree with the stricter requirements for buying a server, there should be some way to be able to develop a small amount of a server without actually buying one to test stuff. Like a revision to graal editor, except more like an integration of RC and Client and the Ccurrent graal editor. You would log into it, all players have a specific area in one single large server and can develop and test things that only they can see. Then when they decide they want to have it tested to see if it can become a UC playerworld they can submit their request and account name, and someone like Stefan, Unix, or Spark could view their accounts serverspace and see if it is worthy. Of course this couldnt just happen entirely for free, I imagine this would cause gold/vip prices to go up a little, bot nothing drastic I would think.

I also agree with the monthly payment solution. But at a different way. private UC playerworlds should cost the most, 15-20 dollars a month. While hosted servers would cost 10-15 dollars a month. And then the classic servers wouldnt cost a thing, as normal, or for the unpopular classic servers (which shouldnt be classic in the first place) would maybe pay $5-10 a month.

That sounds good to me.