The Fine Line - The Limit of Roleplaying

MasterNuke · #1 06-21-2005, 10:50 PM

I'm concerned that with all this RP enforcement. Will we be going overboard on RPing? There is a point where RPing isn't enjoyable. Along with enforcement on RPing, there should be a good amount of non-RP things to do as well. As a main server, shouldn't we be trying to please everyone instead of just the RPers?

Gambet · #2 06-21-2005, 11:22 PM

Is it really that hard to use OOC brackets whenever you speak and you are not in character?

I mean if you speak out of OOC brackets, then you are obviously in character, so you SHOULD be RPing.

It's a matter of laziness.

Zero Hour · #3 06-21-2005, 11:27 PM

Yea, I wouldn't want to see GK turn into a Valikloria, or however you spell it.

Debaglio · #4 06-21-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

Is it really that hard to use OOC brackets whenever you speak and you are not in character?

I mean if you speak out of OOC brackets, then you are obviously in character, so you SHOULD be RPing.

It's a matter of laziness.

I am glad I finally got into your skull.

Curt1zzle · #5 06-21-2005, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

I'm concerned that with all this RP enforcement. Will we be going overboard on RPing? There is a point where RPing isn't enjoyable. Along with enforcement on RPing, there should be a good amount of non-RP things to do as well. As a main server, shouldn't we be trying to please everyone instead of just the RPers?

I don't think we are. RP is the only thing keeping Kingdoms alive right now.

We all know we don't play it for its stunning maps and ongoing additions to gameplay.

Kaimetsu · #6 06-21-2005, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

Is it really that hard to use OOC brackets whenever you speak and you are not in character?

Equally: Is it really that important?

Curt1zzle · #7 06-21-2005, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Equally: Is it really that important?

Yes. Or some other type of hint to distinguish between the two states.

Kaimetsu · #8 06-21-2005, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

Yes. Or some other type of hint to distinguish between the two states.

Isn't it usually obvious from context and content?

zell12 · #9 06-21-2005, 11:45 PM

Haha who made up the stupid rule forcing people to roleplay? You have to make them want to do it themselves; you just can't force everyone to roleplay. GK just isn't enjoyable anymore, and I don't think this is going to help.

Curt1zzle · #10 06-21-2005, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Isn't it usually obvious from context and content?

Usually.

But in the case of a common question or inquiry such as "What are you doing?" , "Who are you talking about?", "Who is that?", or "When did that happen?"...it's not so blatant.

(Those are just a few scenarios I can think up at the moment.)

Kaimetsu · #11 06-21-2005, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

Usually.

But in the case of a common question or inquiry such as "What are you doing?" , "Who are you talking about?", "Who is that?", or "When did that happen?"...it's not so blatant

Agreed. But:

1) People could reserve the parentheses for those few instances where their text would otherwise be ambiguous.
2) What difference would it make in those examples? It seems to me that the answers would be the same regardless of whether or not the speaker is roleplaying.

Zurkiba · #12 06-21-2005, 11:52 PM

No, 2k1 had Roleplaying enforcement and it wasn't as strict as Val. However, it is nessicary to enforce roleplaying because the kingdom leaders wont do it because they're just plain horrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

Is it really that hard to use OOC brackets whenever you speak and you are not in character?

I mean if you speak out of OOC brackets, then you are obviously in character, so you SHOULD be RPing.

It's a matter of laziness.

And that is where 2k2 fails in the roleplaying department. Roleplaying mis -much- more then just using OOC Brackets to talk. It fails because every one thinks that.

Gambet · #13 06-21-2005, 11:53 PM

Kai:

We did not make these rules. These have been the role playing rules since like the dawn of role playing on Graal. OOC brackets have been around for quite some time. This should not be new to you.

Curt1zzle · #14 06-22-2005, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Agreed. But:

1) People could reserve the parentheses for those few instances where their text would otherwise be ambiguous.
2) What difference would it make in those examples? It seems to me that the answers would be the same regardless of whether or not the speaker is roleplaying.

In response to point #2:

If the person said "Who is that?" , the answer could be "My Sister" in out of character, but in character...the answer would be "Queen Kaimetsu".

Get my drift?

Draenin · #15 06-22-2005, 12:11 AM

I don't see why the RP team is a big deal. It's not like you're going to get punished for not being in character. If you don't want to be in character, don't. We just encourage the use of double-parinthetical notation in those instances if you choose to RP heavily. The RP team was made to try and kick-start active roleplaying back to itself, not to say something along the lines of, "OMG yuo is nat RPing so yu gets the jail!"

Think of us as a group of folks who like to have our own unique personas and would like to encourage others to do so as well so that GK can get a bit more interesting.

Kaimetsu · #16 06-22-2005, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

We did not make these rules

You are advocating them. Why?

Quote:

This should not be new to you

...

So we should enforce this rule because it's really old? That's your argument?

Kaimetsu · #17 06-22-2005, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

If the person said "Who is that?" , the answer could be "My Sister" in out of character, but in character...the answer would be "Queen Kaimetsu"

And you would have difficulty distinguishing between them? That's kind of tragic, but I don't think rules should be drafted just to compensate for your ineptitude.

Draenin · #18 06-22-2005, 12:25 AM

Nice double post. You are missing his point.

Gambet · #19 06-22-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

You are advocating them. Why?

...

So we should enforce this rule because it's really old? That's your argument?

We will enforce them because they make sense and they are quite fair rules. When you are OOC, you use OOC brackets (()). When you are IC, you don't use OOC brackets. It's a perfect way of indicating if you are OOC or IC. It's also very useful.

Kaimetsu · #20 06-22-2005, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

Nice double post

Is there anything inherently wrong with double-posting?

Quote:

You are missing his point.

No, you're missing mine! Checkmate!

Kaimetsu · #21 06-22-2005, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

We will enforce them because they make sense

Right, but you're just substituting arguments for assertions again. I'll agree that the brackets can sometimes be useful, but how is it beneficial to force people into using them at all times?

Gambet · #22 06-22-2005, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Right, but you're just substituting arguments for assertions again. I'll agree that the brackets can sometimes be useful, but how is it beneficial to force people into using them at all times?

How is it beneficial? Have you been around GK at all anytime soon? I'm assuming you have not. Players speak IC when they should be using OOC brackets (meaning what they are saying is not part of their character). OOC brackets is a good way to teach players how to learn how to properly role play. It's a method of teaching. Not using OOC brackets would rather be a more advanced form of role playing.

Kaimetsu · #23 06-22-2005, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

Players speak IC when they should be using OOC brackets

...

Your role in this debate is to show that they should be using OOC brackets. You cannot simply assume it!

Quote:

OOC brackets is a good way to teach players how to learn how to properly role play

Justify your statement. How does the use of those brackets aid learning?

Gambet · #24 06-22-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

...
Justify your statement. How does the use of those brackets aid learning?

Because it shows players the difference between IC words/phrases/sentences/conversations to OOC words/phrases/sentences/conversations.

Kaimetsu · #25 06-22-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

Because it shows players the difference between IC [...] to OOC [...]

Is it really something that needs extensive explanation? I didn't think it was possible, but you seem to be underestimating Graalians.

Gambet · #26 06-22-2005, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Is it really something that needs extensive explanation? I didn't think it was possible, but you seem to be underestimating Graalians.

It's helpful and is a quick way of learning for those new to role playing. We don't want to confuse the newer players (or rather those new to role playing).

Zurkiba · #27 06-22-2005, 12:42 AM

Roleplaying rules are established so that there is a constant in the game. Otherwise roleplaying would not be fun. When there are no constants in roleplaying, then it ruins the entire game for everyone. Need examples? Look at the Zormite Republic and Astri. The Zormite Republic could not roleplay yet Astri could. Thusly the game was ruined as there could be no interactions between the two.

Curt1zzle · #28 06-22-2005, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

And you would have difficulty distinguishing between them? That's kind of tragic, but I don't think rules should be drafted just to compensate for your ineptitude.

Continue the argument without attempting personal blows.

Obviosly that's just one scenario, but you make it sound like it's screamingly blatant - when it isn't.

I mean, it could be the character's sister...sure , Queen would be obvious, but if the person said "My Sister"...is it the in game sister, or out of game sister?

Think inside the box, for once.

zell12 · #29 06-22-2005, 12:49 AM

If people want to roleplay, they can go roleplay with eachother and other kingdoms. There shouldn't be a rule to force players to use these brackets when they don't want to use old english and long messages. :/

Gambet · #30 06-22-2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

If people want to roleplay, they can go roleplay with eachother and other kingdoms. There shouldn't be a rule to force players to use these brackets when they don't want to use old english and long messages. :/

And this is what killed role playing to begin with. Players who think such statements.

Crono · #31 06-22-2005, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

No, you're missing mine! Checkmate!

Is your use of checkmate a lamer version of owned or something?

Zurkiba · #32 06-22-2005, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zell12

If people want to roleplay, they can go roleplay with eachother and other kingdoms. There shouldn't be a rule to force players to use these brackets when they don't want to use old english and long messages. :/

*slap* I thought I taught you better!

Kaimetsu · #33 06-22-2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

Continue the argument without attempting personal blows

You first, dawg.

Quote:

I mean, it could be the character's sister...sure , Queen would be obvious, but if the person said "My Sister"...is it the in game sister, or out of game sister?

Context, man. In 90% of cases, they'd be talking about a real-world familial relationship. Sure, it's not always possible to be sure, but that's why I said: "Isn't it usually obvious from context and content?" How often do people ask questions like "Who is that?" How often would the response be ambiguous? And do these rare instances justify mandating use of those infernal brackets at all times?

Think. For once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Is your use of checkmate a lamer version of owned or something?

No, not really. Couldn't you taste the sarcasm?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

It's helpful and is a quick way of learning for those new to role playing

Here's a quicker way:

"When you're speaking as your character, it's IC speech. When you're speaking as yourself, it's OOC speech".

Googi · #34 06-22-2005, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

I'm concerned that with all this RP enforcement. Will we be going overboard on RPing? There is a point where RPing isn't enjoyable. Along with enforcement on RPing, there should be a good amount of non-RP things to do as well. As a main server, shouldn't we be trying to please everyone instead of just the RPers?

I don't think it'll be too strict. The biggest hardliner on the team is probably Gambet, and even then it's not too bad.

Curt1zzle · #35 06-22-2005, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

You first, dawg.

Don't go there, it's ugly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

How often would the response be ambiguous?

Enough to use brackets for OOC.

...Dog chasing his tail?

Kaimetsu · #36 06-22-2005, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

Enough to use brackets for OOC

Again and again and again: Why would it be necessary to use them in instances where there is no ambiguity?

Gambet · #37 06-22-2005, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Here's a quicker way:

"When you're speaking as your character, it's IC speech. When you're speaking as yourself, it's OOC speech".

The problem is that players can not always differentiate OOC talk from IC talk. Also, they sometimes speak IC while using OOC terms.

Curt1zzle · #38 06-22-2005, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Again and again and again: Why would it be necessary to use them in instances where there is no ambiguity?

The only reason I could suggest would be for habbit. Using them in all instances would prevent the user from forgetting to use them in essential situations.

*Shrug* I'm not a big Kingdoms fan, but if I was, I would support the use of brackets. Just makes things less confusing at times.

Kaimetsu · #39 06-22-2005, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambet

The problem is that players can not always differentiate OOC talk from IC talk

But they sometimes can, yes? Because it's sometimes blatantly obvious, yes? So why would you mandate use of the brackets in those instances?

And have you abandoned the 'learning aid' argument now?

Googi · #40 06-22-2005, 01:08 AM

You know, this wouldn't be a problem if there was actually a set of RPing rules.