To: Current 2k1 staff

Brad · #1 05-05-2005, 06:17 PM

I have a proposal. Lance, you've asked us to name a suitable candidate for the new manager of 2k1. Thats what you said our problem was, we couldn't think of anyone better than you. Well, I have one. Konidias. Make him the manager. Allow him to hire a new group of staff members and the current staff may be aloud to stay if they wish to. I know for a fact Koni can bring back the glory of 2k1.

Hiro · #2 05-05-2005, 06:57 PM

I second that.

Waltz5 · #3 05-05-2005, 06:59 PM

If Koni was manager I would definately work on 2k1 again.

maximus_asinus · #4 05-05-2005, 08:02 PM

Obviously this thread won't accomplish anything. Lance will either ignore the thread, or the more likely possibility, refuse to step down. Koni would probably make for a better Manager though.

DeathChill · #5 05-05-2005, 09:02 PM

I would have to say Koni WOULDN'T be a better manager. Nothing personally wrong with him, but when he started Oasis he said that he'd finish it within 6 months after complaining to Shadrock about how long Faheria was taking, and then that turned into a year, and now Oasis is dead and Konidias is basically gone.

Snakeandy7 · #6 05-05-2005, 09:12 PM

I vote rabid, but I think Lance is still good. He's still developing.

Nappa · #7 05-05-2005, 09:58 PM

I disagree with the nomination.

Lance · #8 05-05-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I have a proposal. Lance, you've asked us to name a suitable candidate for the new manager of 2k1. Thats what you said our problem was, we couldn't think of anyone better than you.

Actually, that was Kaimetsu who said that.

Quote:

Well, I have one. Konidias.

I will, however, take a guess as to the next request Kaimetsu will have - prove that Konidias is or would be better than me.

Quote:

Make him the manager. Allow him to hire a new group of staff members and the current staff may be aloud to stay if they wish to. I know for a fact Koni can bring back the glory of 2k1.

It's cool that you think so, but it's just a claim, and you could just as easily say the same thing about anyone if you don't back it up.

Lance · #9 05-05-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz5

If Koni was manager I would definately work on 2k1 again.

Proving once again that you do not care about the server as much as you do the manager!

Lance · #10 05-05-2005, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiro

I second that.

You don't/didn't even play Graal2001.

Brad · #11 05-05-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

Actually, that was Kaimetsu who said that.

I will, however, take a guess as to the next request Kaimetsu will have - prove that Konidias is or would be better than me.

It's cool that you think so, but it's just a claim, and you could just as easily say the same thing about anyone if you don't back it up.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=58816

12th post down is YOU saying that we need a suitable replacement and a reason why.

Konidias developed so much for 2k1 when he was an administrator. He has a passion to complete the project which you are lacking. Lance, honestly if nothing is being done why wont you hand the project down to him? You aren't losing anything but a dead server. Konidias is one of the best developers in graal and I truly believe he has more graphic/leveling/scripting knowledge than yourself. This is a personal opinion however, and I can only prove it by showing what Koni has accomplished.

Please Lance, I am begging you if Koni will accept please hand it to him.

Googi · #12 05-05-2005, 10:48 PM

Konidias made the marketplace, but he also wants to get rid of player bomys because it doesn't fit into this concept of "realism".

It doesn't matter though. Like I said in my other thread, 2K1 can't possibly come back in any form resembling old 2K1 and be successful.

You shouldn't expect Koni to be anymore likely to actually finish 2K1 than you should expect Lance to (See: Oasis).

Kaimetsu · #13 05-05-2005, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Konidias developed so much for 2k1 when he was an administrator

Like what?

Hell, I wrote most of his 'Konquence' thing, though he never saw fit to credit me.

Quote:

He has a passion to complete the project which you are lacking

Why did he quit the first time?
Why was Oasis never completed?

Quote:

Konidias is one of the best developers in graal and I truly believe he has more graphic/leveling/scripting knowledge than yourself

Graphics, probably. Not scripting. Unless he's drastically improved since the last time I saw one of his scripts, his abilities have been grossly overrated.

Quote:

I can only prove it by showing what Koni has accomplished

Like what?

Brad · #14 05-05-2005, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Like what?

Hell, I wrote most of his 'Konquence' thing, though he never saw fit to credit me.

Why did he quit the first time?
Why was Oasis never completed?

Graphics, probably. Not scripting. Unless he's drastically improved since the last time I saw one of his scripts, his abilities have been grossly overrated.

Like what?

to counter all of that please show me some of lance's good work.

konidias · #15 05-05-2005, 11:25 PM

I can only post once a day here, so don't expect a quick reply or anything...

I believe I could bring back 2k1 to be the most popular server on Graal. I'm dying to get started on the project. I talked with Stefan about what I'd like to do, and he is trying to contact you (Lance) to set up a meeting of some sort. (or already has contacted you)

I wasn't with 2k1 since the day it opened, but I was around Graal when it opened, I joined around 5-6 months later. Shortly after, I was making graphics for it, then levels and scripts, then I was a full time developer. When Stefan left, Birdbird and I became co-managers, though it didn't pan out well because there were conflicts of interest. (basically, I didn't like the direction Birdbird was wanting to take)

However, I've done a lot of things for Graal over the years. I really don't know where to start, and I don't want to look conceited by listing every single thing I've ever done. All I can say is that it was a lot. I have already been in the management position so I know what to expect. I've also been in the position of developing a server for release, so I know what to expect there as well.

Like I told Stefan, I could single-handedly remodel 2k1 (though it's foolish to do so, I'm sure I'd want staff to help). The difference between 2k1 and Oasis was that with Oasis, my eyes were bigger than my stomach, so to speak. I planned things that I couldn't do entirely on my own, and I could never find anyone to help me with. It's not as if I got bored with Oasis, or decided it wasn't worth my time or something. I simply couldn't find a good enough scripter who would actually stick around for more than a day. It put a halt on the whole project.

I don't feel there needs to be any proving of who is better than who. We've both had experience with management. I'm not sure if you managed 2k1 while it was active. I was managing it when it had around 150-200 active people daily. I know what to expect.

I can also make any graphics, levels, ganis, sounds, or scripts, as far as what is needed for 2k1... so that I can make up for any development not getting done due to lack of staff. My work is of acceptable quality, as much of it is already on the server.

I really don't want this to get ugly, I don't have any evil intentions, I simply want to try my hand at reviving 2k1. If you're not progressing as fast as I could be, then it just seems wrong for you to hold on to it. Though I'm not entirely sure of your progress... you're very vague when it comes to answering that. I've been in game development for around 10 years and I know when someone is saying "we're making progress", that the project is either at a standstill, or it's barely moving. If you were making GOOD progress, you'd gladly be letting people know. You'd even be estimating release dates.

Kaimetsu · #16 05-05-2005, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

to counter all of that please show me some of lance's good work.

Dawg, your job is to show that Konidias is the superior candidate. The burden of proof is on you. You can't ask for counterexamples until you've provided some examples.

Crono · #17 05-05-2005, 11:37 PM

Maybe lance and koni can have a shootout 8]

Brad · #18 05-05-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Dawg, your job is to show that Konidias is the superior candidate. The burden of proof is on you. You can't ask for counterexamples until you've provided some examples.

I am not gonna waste time finding things. The marketplace is pretty damn good as well as his villas on 2k1, some levels on 2k1...uhh I cant remember man. Lance really hasnt done anything spectacular on 2k1. The marketplace did revolutionize the server though.

Kaimetsu · #19 05-05-2005, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

I am not gonna waste time finding things. The marketplace is pretty damn good

Can you show that he was responsible for a significant portion of it? I seem to remember Jagen handling most of that project.

Brad · #20 05-05-2005, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Can you show that he was responsible for a significant portion of it? I seem to remember Jagen handling most of that project.

Hes gonna have to prove what hes made I am not sure of everything. I gotta ask though, why stick up for Lance if hes doing nothing? Do you want 2k1 to die? Its dead right now and we've waited over 2 years and theres nothing Kai, nothing. I can gurantee you theres nomore than 2 months of work done in those 2 years. Its pathetic and we just want the good server back.

Kaimetsu · #21 05-05-2005, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

why stick up for Lance if hes doing nothing?

Firstly, I don't know how much he's doing. I'm not going to assume that it's nothing, although I'll agree that he's probably not as active as we'd like.

Secondly, why would I support a new manager if I didn't think he'd improve the server? Or if I thought that he might damage it?

Googi · #22 05-05-2005, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

I believe I could bring back 2k1 to be the most popular server on Graal.

I stopped reading here.

Waltz5 · #23 05-06-2005, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

Proving once again that you do not care about the server as much as you do the manager!

And how many people work under you currently? And how many have left because of you being the manager or refuse to even attempt to? Hmmm... seems like I'm not the only one who has a problem with working under you as a manager. It has nothing to do with the server genius.

Kaimetsu · #24 05-06-2005, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz5

And how many people work under you currently? And how many have left because of you being the manager or refuse to even attempt to?

Yeah, because people never quit from other servers. Only 2K1!

Waltz5 · #25 05-06-2005, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Yeah, because people never quit from other servers. Only 2K1!

Did I ever say that? I was saying, how many have left because of Tseng being the manager or refuse to even attempt to help on 2k1 due to Tseng? I'm not concerned with other servers.

Kaimetsu · #26 05-06-2005, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz5

Did I ever say that? I was saying, how many have left because of Tseng being the manager

I'll explain in more detail for you.

People quit servers all the time, and it's often because they dislike other staff members. So what? What does it prove? It's usually a result of the immaturity of the workers rather than a legitimate issue with the manager.

How soon would it take before they got into a disagreement with Konidias and stormed out?

Brad · #27 05-06-2005, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Firstly, I don't know how much he's doing. I'm not going to assume that it's nothing, although I'll agree that he's probably not as active as we'd like.

Secondly, why would I support a new manager if I didn't think he'd improve the server? Or if I thought that he might damage it?

How can you damage a server which does not exist? You can't kill something which isn't alive. Give him a chance at resurection. Hell, give him another server so if Lance wishes he can give it a wack as well. May the better man win. I am convinced Koni would do better.

Googi · #28 05-06-2005, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

How can you damage a server which does not exist? You can't kill something which isn't alive. Give him a chance at resurection. Hell, give him another server so if Lance wishes he can give it a wack as well. May the better man win. I am convinced Koni would do better.

Sure, Koni probably has the development skills, but does he have good ideas? What does he want to add?

Lance · #29 05-06-2005, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz5

Did I ever say that? I was saying, how many have left because of Tseng being the manager

Zero legitimate ones.

Quote:

or refuse to even attempt to help on 2k1 due to Tseng?

Sounds like a personal problem.

Hiro · #30 05-06-2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

You don't/didn't even play Graal2001.

Sure, keep thinking that.

Kaimetsu · #31 05-06-2005, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

How can you damage a server which does not exist?

2K1 exists not only electronically but also spiritually. So... you're doubly wrong.

Googi · #32 05-06-2005, 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

2K1 exists not only electronically but also spiritually. So... you're doubly wrong.

Koni is going to damage 2K1 spiritually?

Kaimetsu · #33 05-06-2005, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Koni is going to damage 2K1 spiritually?

Right now the server has a favorable reputation. People remember it fondly, else we wouldn't have all this (albeit fickle) enthusiasm over a potential revival. If somebody brings up a ruined version of the world, he poisons the nostalgia.

Kinda like what people keep doing to NW.

Googi · #34 05-06-2005, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Right now the server has a favorable reputation. People remember it fondly, else we wouldn't have all this (albeit fickle) enthusiasm over a potential revival. If somebody brings up a ruined version of the world, he poisons the nostalgia.

I doubt it. 2K1 existed in a ruined state for a very long time, but it never damaged people's memories of the earlier times of 2K1. People don't talk about the server when it was dead.

Kaimetsu · #35 05-06-2005, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

I doubt it. 2K1 existed in a ruined state for a very long time, but it never damaged people's memories of the earlier times of 2K1. People don't talk about the server when it was dead.

That's pretty much the point. People didn't talk about it. They ignored it, and in doing so they preserved their nostalgia. After a couple of failed revivals, though, things start to loose their luster.

Waltz5 · #36 05-06-2005, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

It's usually a result of the immaturity of the workers rather than a legitimate issue with the manager.

Yes it can be. But if there are numerous accounts with one person involved wouldn't that make it seem there is atleast some fault on that person?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

How soon would it take before they got into a disagreement with Konidias and stormed out?

I've worked with Koni on 2k1 in the past and I've disagreed with him already. Like most normal people, he can be stubborn at times but know he has the ability to atleast listen and discuss differences in point of view. Disagreements are expected and are mere road bumps in my opinion in playerworld production.

My personal reasons for leaving 2k1 include a lack of communication on Lance's end. Maybe he was right in the end, but it's not very encouraging to not even have your ideas listened too/read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lance

Zero legitimate ones.

That's an opinion.

Googi · #37 05-06-2005, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

That's pretty much the point. People didn't talk about it. They ignored it, and in doing so they preserved their nostalgia. After a couple of failed revivals, though, things start to loose their luster.

How? It doesn't change people's memories of the server, and especially not of the people who used to play it.

Kaimetsu · #38 05-06-2005, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz5

if there are numerous accounts with one person involved wouldn't that make it seem there is atleast some fault on that person?

Potentially, but it depends on the circumstances. If lots of people are quitting at the same time then it's probably just herd instinct.

Quote:

I've worked with Koni on 2k1 in the past and I've disagreed with him already. Like most normal people, he can be stubborn at times but know he has the ability to atleast listen and discuss differences in point of view

My experiences suggest otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

How? It doesn't change people's memories of the server, and especially not of the people who used to play it.

Negative association, dawg.

Googi · #39 05-06-2005, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Negative association, dawg.

Since it hasn't happened in any widespread way even after the failures up until now, I don't see why there'd be some sort of magic number of failures at which point everyone will no longer think 2K1 was ever good.

Brad · #40 05-06-2005, 05:45 AM

just give it a wack theres nothin to lose

if it fails its just another failed attempt big deal

kai, you dont want him to try because you want OTHERS to always remember it?

I dont exactly remember you thinking of others first. You do consider Lance a friend though, and I think that might be clouding your vision in all this.