Its Time We Take A Stand

[Gambet]

SCAMMING

I am honestly 100% tired of this. Do you know what it is to be on a server and having to be scared to even drop some dias to prep one of your weapons with the thought that someone might come by and sweep them from you?, or the thought of a very good friend scamming you? It really sucks.

Scamming...I'M TIRED OF IT!

Does anyone know what was scammed today?

THE LIGHTNING SABER

That weapon is like 1 or 2 of a kind, and some poor girl got scammed today. The staff do absolutely nothing about scamming, except sit back and say its legal to scam. Legal to scam...what type of rule is that? The lightning saber doesnt even belong to me but I'm helping this girl as hard as I would if the sword were mines to try to get it back. I know that it wont be returned, but it really ticks me off. Something REALLY has to be done. What good are the GK Police f they will allow scamming?

Scamming is causing players to quit!

The account that scammed the lightning saber is:

littlerichie2

his partner in crime:

GenTso420

DO NOT TRUST THESE ACCOUNTS AT ALL!


Look, I see people getting scammed everyday, and it really saddens me to see that those scammed have nothing to do but to quit, and quit is what they end up doing. So many players are leaving because of scammers, and its really ridiculous.

Too many things are ruining GK right now, and nothing is being done about it.

My two favorite servers:

Zone
Graal Kingdoms

Zone is perfect, and GK use to be, but now, it seems that all staff have lost interest, and scammers are ruling the place. Something....ANYTHING....has to be done.

A WAY TO END SCAMMING

I think this will definately end all scamming between friends. Ok, this is how it works. There will be two sides of the table (like there is now), but the difference is, one side of the table will have a special symbol in the center of it, and the other side wont. This special symbol indicates the trade table leader. Now, this is how it works, when one person puts an item on the table, and both players accept, a new menu will show, where the table leader will set the following setting:

Time Before TradeBack:

Basically, the table leader sets a time, and after that time passes, whatever has been traded is traded back. So, if I want to show my friend my Ice Dagger, and I want to make sure he doesnt scam me, I would take him to this special trading room, I would set the time to like 3 minutes, and let him see it. When the 3 minutes are over, the items are traded back automatically.

NOTE: IF ONE OF THE TWO PLAYERS THAT TRADED IN THESE SPECIAL TRADING ROOMS LOGS OFF, THEN THE ITEMS WILL BE TRADED BACK INSTANTLY TO PREVENT THOSE LOGGING OFF SCAMMERS.

Now, after the table leader sets the time, a new window will appear for both players, and both players will either choose to accept or to decline the trade. If both users accept the trade, then the items are traded and the timer begins. If one of the traders accepts and the other declines, then the trade is ended and both players items are returned.

NOTE: THESE SPECIAL TRADE ROOMS ARE NOT TO BE USED FOR NORMAL TRADES.

EDIT: LETS SAY YOUR FRIEND LETS YOU BORROW ONE OF HIS/HER ITEM(S), IN ORDER TO PREVENT YOU FROM SELLING IT, MAKE IT SO THAT YOU CANNOT SELL ANY ITEMS THAT YOU GOT WHILE INSIDE THIS SPECIAL TRADING ROOM, SINCE ITS NOT REALLY YOURS, ONLY TEMPORARILY (UNTIL THE TIMER RUNS OUT).

This is the BEST way to prevent scamming that I can think of.


I really hope you all like this idea, I would really like to see it put into effect (that is, if its possible to make).

[Damix2]

Just like to add, making it very clear that this is not to be used for normal trades so new players, won't go in there and trade their items.

[GoldSri]

Another good idea is one i know from another game. apart from being able to trade items there is the option of "lend"

Lend means you can give your item to anybody but you have the option to retrieve it back to your inventory at any point.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by GoldSri

Another good idea is one i know from another game. apart from being able to trade items there is the option of "lend"

Lend means you can give your item to anybody but you have the option to retrieve it back to your inventory at any point.

This new trade table would pretty much cover for this. I just really hope the GK staff see this thread, because something has to be done.


If this is decided to be made, then I think its best if Stefan makes it, to prevent bugs/glitches/loop holes.

[Lance]

The new mudlib should fix any 'bugs' remaining with the trade tables.

And server-coordinated loans? Man, just don't loan stuff to untrustworthy people. It isn't that hard.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Lance

And server-coordinated loans? Man, just don't loan stuff to untrustworthy people. It isn't that hard.

Honestly.

[XGoLink]

Scamming rocks... thats my oppinion

[Jaquet]

Why? Do you scam? You prolly wouldnt think it would rock if you got scammed, you just prolly enjoy seeing others scammed

[Kaimetsu]

I would say that scamming should be illegal, but it's a difficult thing to enforce.

Would be interesting if trades could be reversed until a finite time has passed (the length of which is probably relative to the value of the items being traded). Neither party can drop or trade their side of the bargain until that time has been cleared. Then scammed users have a chance to instantly fix things if they realise that they were fooled.

Of course, it'd probably require major modification to some systems, and that just ain't gonna happen.

[XGoLink]

Originally Posted by Jaquet

Why? Do you scam?

I do, indeed..

[Malinko]

Originally Posted by Lance

It isn't that hard.

So some people, it is, sadly.

[Evil_Lord_Sparda]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Zone is perfect, and GK use to be..

Hardly. There has always been scamming on 2k2, right from the very start with Porky and others.

[Googi]

There isn't any 2K2 police, but there should be. Also, all of the taxes on trading (both table trading and plat trading) should be gotten rid of. The don't accomplish anything and just encourage scamming.

[XGoLink]

No, Police for 2K2 would suck

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by XGoLink

No, Police for 2K2 would suck

because they'd stop you from scamming?

I view scamming as a sort of theft, it goes against the Rules of Conduct.
Punishment for scamming should be inforced.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Googi

There isn't any 2K2 police, but there should be. Also, all of the taxes on trading (both table trading and plat trading) should be gotten rid of. The don't accomplish anything and just encourage scamming.

Googi, I will hold your head under water. IF there's something I actually remember doing, it's this - everytime you say "There are no G2K2 police!" I come running behind you like a lap dog saying "Yes, there is! Bjorn, and Malinko, and Vlad, and me!"

So give it up.

[Malinko]

There are police on G2K2 >_O.

[MasterNuke]

You can't stop scamming. You can only make it less worthwhile. Right now it is only a major problem because there are so few worthwhile items around that cannot be obtainable through normal(non-event) means and most likely they won't ever be evented again.

[Aethorpe]

There are police, and there are events teams, but none of them actually DO anything.

I don't scam, but scamming shot me legal IMO, it takes cunning to trick someone into handing over thier stuff, and if someone has that cunning, more power to them, they pay the price wether to believe it or not, thier names are tainted, and they lose friends, quick.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

There are police, and there are events teams, but none of them actually DO anything.

An excellent observation, I hope it doesn't reflect how intelligent you are!

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Lance

The new mudlib should fix any 'bugs' remaining with the trade tables.

And server-coordinated loans? Man, just don't loan stuff to untrustworthy people. It isn't that hard.

Lance...this is exactly what I meant when I said that staff are loosing interest. You dont play GK anymore, so you wouldnt know how things have changed player wise. You're saying that you should loan stuff to untrustworthy people? Dude....those whom people consider 'trustworthy' are the ones scamming.

Why is it that you staff must take the easy way out and say stuff like "dont loan stuff to untrustworthy people." Did you even read my suggestion? I dont see how scamming would be possible if you used my method.

You cant tell who can be trusted and who cant be trusted anymore, and thats sad....real sad. Your best friend one day can be the one who scams you the next....its just how it is man, and if something isnt done, it will make everyone quit.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Bliss

How is it that I can tell who can be trusted, and have the record of never being scammed to prove it?

How is it that those whom I've trusted have always returned my gear?

I think it's your ideal of trust which needs to be fixed.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

How is it that I can tell who can be trusted, and have the record of never being scammed to prove it?

How is it that those whom I've trusted have always returned my gear?

I think it's your ideal of trust which needs to be fixed.

Forget it...with this attitude from the staff im tired of trying to improve things. When GK dies, it will be your fault (the staff of GK).

Its nice to see how user friendly they are.


Just so you could know ZH..

I explained what I said from what I've seen and from personal experience.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Forget it...with this attitude from the staff im tired of trying to improve things. When GK dies, it will be your fault (the staff of GK).

Its nice to see how user friendly they are.


Just so you could know ZH..

I explained what I said from what I've seen and from personal experience.

Would you like fries with that?

[busyrobot]

If you really want to get rid of scamming you need:

1) make a table like player to player trade.
2) trade tables are being fixed I hear, but they have to be bug free.

3) make a 'service trade' option
This would be complex but would solve almost all the remaining scam problems. There is a finite number of services a player can provide, EAing, and blessing. So, you open a trade window, you drag your item onto it, you click service, click 'EA' or 'Bless' - for bless, if the item is unblessed, it may require you to type the god name. Then you enter a number, which is the value it will be EAed up to, or blessed up to. Then, you click up and down arrows for days and hours for service to expire, and finally, add the items or plat that are in trade for that service.

When the blesser/EAer gets the item, it is flagged with a 'Loaned' flag. The player cannot trade it, destroy it, drop it, or clean it (if it is prepped). They can only arm it, bless it, ea it etc, or 'target' it and do /cancel_service or /complete_service.

If the time limit expires, the player gets the item back in their inventory, and the items/plat what were traded for payment. Just to note, the payment for that service, would not be in any player's inventory, but in 'limbo' (staff script generated container of sorts) until it is cancelled or completed.

If the time expires and the item does not have the pluses agreed to in the trade, the service is deemed cancelled. The player who asked for the service, cannot cancel it (as they could get it back with one less plus than complete right as the servicer is doing it and not pay).

It is complex - yes. It would take a lot of time to make it bug free and used. However, when you consider that if the staff took a full week or two to hammer it out soundly, it would mean no more staff time wasted on every little scam.

It would mean an end to people quitting over getting scammed, which would mean it would pay off financially.

You could even use the service interface, to show another player an item, have no service or payment defined and you know you will get it back in exactly an hour, and no risk of it being dropped, scammed by a third person, or cleaned or glitched.

And the one other thing, we really need it so you can type in the plat value on traded items, the arrows are too slow for items that are of high value, that you are trading for free. Its why people give up and drop the item and it gets stolen by some guy who runs up.

To end scamming, we need an interface that is not based on trust, but on forced game mechanics without bugs and loop holes. When people don't use the safety features, it is usually due to problems with the interface, and right now, a lot of scamming is done by 'showing' items and getting items blessed/EAed. The only way to solve that is to account for it in the game mechanics, which would save a ton of time for the staff of trying to police scammers, and make it a lot more fun for the players.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Would you like fries with that?

The worst mistake the GK management has done was giving you your job back.


Padren, from the looks of it, nothing is going to be done to end this scamming problem.

[Arnack]

Yeah,lol. I got scamm-ed and Thats why I quit o=

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Gambet

The worst mistake the GK management has done was giving you your job back.

I sincerely doubt it was their worst. I just have a pension for being very sarcastic [:

[Lance]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Lance...this is exactly what I meant when I said that staff are loosing interest. You dont play GK anymore, so you wouldnt know how things have changed player wise. You're saying that you should loan stuff to untrustworthy people? Dude....those whom people consider 'trustworthy' are the ones scamming.

Do I have to know how "things have changed player wise"? Don't loan stuff to untrustworthy people. It's simple. I can't help it if people fail to make appropriate judgements of others.

Why is it that you staff must take the easy way out and say stuff like "dont loan stuff to untrustworthy people."

It certainly is not GraalOnline's business to control what people do with their items (as long as they are following the rules).

Did you even read my suggestion?

Yes, I did. I thought I made that blatantly obvious when I noted that the idea of server-controlled loans is reasonably laughable.

I dont see how scamming would be possible if you used my method.

There are several possibilities; I shall note the simplest - if your system was implemented but not used, it would actually be quite likely.

You cant tell who can be trusted and who cant be trusted anymore, and thats sad....real sad.

Then you suck at judging people. And you're right, it is quite sad.

Your best friend one day can be the one who scams you the next....

That person was not really your best friend, now were they?

its just how it is man,

Perhaps in your circle of people who suck at judging others and picking friends, but this is hardly an epidemic.

and if something isnt done, it will make everyone quit.

They should perhaps instead revise their criteria for selecting friends.

[Gambet]

Lance, stop saying the same thing over and over again. Thats all you did, repeat yourself.

Look...

The fact that scamming is possible is enough reason to create a non scammable way of trading.

If these trading tables were made, then I am 100% sure that those who know about it will in fact use it while lending items. Those who dont, well, its their faults if anything happens.

Currently, theres no way to prevent it, which should be more then enough reason to create something that does prevent it.

Stop calling people idiots for getting scammed, you just dont understand.

Heres an example:

Bob and Henry have been friends for 3 years on Graal now. Bob and Henry do everything together on Graal, and both have clean records and are not known for doing anything wrong. One day, Bob gets a lot of good items on GK, and Henry is jealous. Henry asks Bob to lend him some items, and well, they have been friends for 3 years and are very good friends, so Bob trusts Henry and gives him some items. Next thing you know, Bob never sees those items again....Henry has just scammed him.

Stop calling those who are getting scammed idiots and take it as a way to create something to prevent these things.

You staff really amaze me....honestly....

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Stuff

I just wish I could justify banning him, only so we wouldn't have to see him repeatedly be ignorant.

Everytime someone repeats theirself it seems that you turn to that cursed quote of yours. Just because they're repeating themself doesn't mean they have nothing to say, infact - if they're repeating theirself they likely have something very important to say, and you're just missing it. It's a shame those people have to suffer to repeat themself to ignorant eyes.

The point is very clear, Gambet. If Bob, or Evan, or whatever his stupid name is, gets jealous THAT easily than you haven't discussed each other's opinions, and ideals enough to see that, and he is not your friend. Use your own methods to test trust. When you go swimming do you put a toe or a finger in the water, first, or do you cannon ball in? If you cannon ball in, and find flesh-melting tempratures too hot it's not the water's fault... it's yours.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

I just wish I could justify banning him, only so we wouldn't have to see him repeatedly be ignorant.

Everytime someone repeats theirself it seems that you turn to that cursed quote of yours. Just because they're repeating themself doesn't mean they have nothing to say, infact - if they're repeating theirself they likely have something very important to say, and you're just missing it. It's a shame those people have to suffer to repeat themself to ignorant eyes.

The point is very clear, Gambet. If Bob, or Evan, or whatever his stupid name is, gets jealous THAT easily than you haven't discussed each other's opinions, and ideals enough to see that, and he is not your friend. Use your own methods to test trust. When you go swimming do you put a toe or a finger in the water, first, or do you cannon ball in? If you cannon ball in, and find flesh-melting tempratures too hot it's not the water's fault... it's yours.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ALL FAIL TO UNDERSTAND..


All you say is "Its your fault"...well...yes, its there fault, BUT CREATING SOMETHING LIKE I SUGGESTED WOULD END SCAMMING.

Give the players a way to lend items without worrying about being scammed, and the problems will be solved.

All you're doing now is sitting back, ridiculing the players, and saying its their fault. I agree, it is their fault, but why is it so hard to do something like I have suggested?

[Lance]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Lance, stop saying the same thing over and over again. Thats all you did, repeat yourself.

I elaborated since you did not care to refute them. Alas.

The fact that scamming is possible is enough reason to create a non scammable way of trading.

1) There is no such thing
2) No matter what system you utilize, as long as people have any amount of control, there will be scamming, stealing, and betrayals.

If these trading tables were made, then I am 100% sure that those who know about it will in fact use it while lending items. Those who dont, well, its their faults if anything happens.

I am curious! Under any system, does the one who foolishly trusts the other and is scammed possess any responsibility for being scammed?

Currently, theres no way to prevent it,

I have pointed out a couple!

which should be more then enough reason to create something that does prevent it.

Except you have failed to demonstrate that it will, indeed, prevent it. In fact, you have even granted that people will still not take advantage of such a system. I am curious - how can you find them at fault for being scammed but not find the current folks at fault for the same?

Stop calling people idiots for getting scammed, you just dont understand.

I called noone an idiot. I implore you to stop putting words in my mouth.

Heres an example:

Bob and Henry have been friends for 3 years on Graal now. Bob and Henry do everything together on Graal, and both have clean records and are not known for doing anything wrong. One day, Bob gets a lot of good items on GK, and Henry is jealous. Henry asks Bob to lend him some items, and well, they have been friends for 3 years and are very good friends, so Bob trusts Henry and gives him some items. Next thing you know, Bob never sees those items again....Henry has just scammed him.

Then Bob has failed to properly identify Henry as being capable of such jealousy/thievery.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Gambet

More Stuff

We don't have a magical wand we can wave to enstate these measures, and even if we did - what gurantees they would work? I haven't actually read them, but I doubt they would work because you don't have much experience in the matters... and I somehow doubt you're another Confucius.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

We don't have a magical wand we can wave to enstate these measures, and even if we did - what gurantees they would work? I haven't actually read them, but I doubt they would work because you don't have much experience in the matters... and I somehow doubt you're another Confucius.

You havnt even read my suggestion and you're here rambling about things you have no clue of? How very wise of you.

Its amazing how someone could talk so much smack in a thread and not even know what has been said in the thread. This would be considered bashing, would it not? Either way, you are not doing a very good job at it


Lance...

Just read what I wrote in the post right above yours...it says everything.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Even More Stuff

I'm very aware of how scamming works, which is what I'm discussing. I'm not discussing your method of prevention. Watch your wee little tongue, or I will pry it from your mouth and wear is as a neck tie.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

I'm very aware of how scamming works, which is what I'm discussing. I'm not discussing your method of prevention. Watch your wee little tongue, or I will pry it from your mouth and wear is as a neck tie.

Now you make threats? What type of role model are you exactly? Its amazing how some of the staff, which represent the server, act.

ZH, this has nothing to do with how scamming works, it has to do with a method to prevent it, which is what we people want.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Now you make threats?

Threats? Eek, where? I simply said I would borrow your (wee) tongue for an undefined period of time and wear it as a neck tie!

What type of role model are you exactly?

I wasn't aware that I was one, but if I am one; I am a poor role model! (just ask my parents)

Its amazing how some of the staff, which represent the server, act.

Honestly, I know... just look at that mean Vlad.

ZH, this has nothing to do with how scamming works, it has to do with a method to prevent it, which is what we people want.

Ah, my appologies, I was under the impression that this thread was about scamming.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Threats? Eek, where? I simply said I would borrow your (wee) tongue for an undefined period of time and wear it as a neck tie!

I wasn't aware that I was one, but if I am one; I am a poor role model! (just ask my parents)

Honestly, I know... just look at that mean Vlad.

Ah, my appologies, I was under the impression that this thread was about scamming.

The top portion describes the scamming situation, the bottom portion is an idea on how to prevent it, which is what the players want.

Give us a way to be able to lend items without having to be worried about being scammed, and we wouldnt have all of these problems.

Is it so much to ask for something like this? Geez. Do you guys even care about the players happiness/comfort on the server?

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Googi, I will hold your head under water. IF there's something I actually remember doing, it's this - everytime you say "There are no G2K2 police!" I come running behind you like a lap dog saying "Yes, there is! Bjorn, and Malinko, and Vlad, and me!"

So give it up.

I mean Police as in real police like on 2K1 and other servers. Not four guys who do other stuff but will pillory someone if they happen to see them do illegal stuff.