If this goes on.....

[Majin_Mush]

I see people get scammed all the time...Argo got scammed His Dwarfen Hammer and something else.. Know by who?? Silent (Silent_P2P). Also Alaru (Sorig) Scammed someones armor +6.. He said the guy he scammed form had his RoC and he didn't..
If this called legal I don't like graal anymore..
Silent_P2P should be banned. He scams people all the time.. And know what he does? Laugh Laugh and Laugh.. He sells the things he scammed.
If he can't be banned for this I do not know if I still like graal....
If he won't be banned then atleast give the stuff back to the victims.

Like I said I don't like graal anymore if this will go on..

Argo.. Ill help to get your DwarfenHammer back.. I think it will take a while but ill do my best =/.
And I heard about Wren too.. She got scammed her Shield and Gauntlets. You have got the shield back already but I will also help you get back the Gauntlets.

[zell12]

Why are there trading tables and trading menus. You people are lazy or just dumb.

[narkotic]

I agree, this is becoming a greater problem.

I think one of the best things to do would be utilizing something already practiced by some of the Kingdoms in graal.

What I am talking about is 'black listing.' Got scammed by someone? Submit their name. More people getting scammed by that person? Black list them and spread the word. It's just like what some volunteer organizations do to SPAMmers. Finding out who provides the tools for the people, and then setup the road blocks.

While it's sad to say, part of trading should involve checking this black list. That way you avoid some of this scamming as much as possible.

This trade black list shouldn't be based on the current black lists in use. This would be unfair to them as some of these lists are unrelated to scamming incidents, but might also be due to personal vendettas.

I would suggest a council be formed from members within kingdoms and without. Perhaps manned by six or seven members, and voted in by the community. These people would review the list, review submissions, hold votes and maintain the black list. They would also listen to challenges, and remove people when they turn a new leaf. One of the things I am big on is forgiveness, and even the biggest scammer can turn legit if they are promptly banned from all trade from informed players.

[GoZelda]

Dumb probably. Everybody uses the tables. x.x It isn't bannable and it probably won't be, unless a bug is used. Ofcourse, if you had a little RP sense - which you don't - you could RP that this Silent was a thief, and everything that comes along with it.

[zell12]

You can't be banned for stealing something, but abusing a bug to get someones stuff is banable, not because of stealing, but because of bug abuse.

If you guys just used the Trading tables like you're supposed to, none of this would happen.

[narkotic]

I have no problems with 'scammers' or using the tables or trade window properly.

What I am seeing, however, is players who are taking advantage of others' ignorance, or their trust. It's not bannable to do something like this. It's not against the rules to grief. It is against the rules to harass, and in some ways such a situation could be borderline on that.

Also, I'm sure a lot of people could roleplay him as a thief. The problem is, these thieves take it out of roleplay context. It's hard to roleplay to a brick wall, or to the air. I doubt these griefers would roleplay back if someone bothered.

This is a social problem, and should be resolved via social means. It's obviously not an offense that warrants the usage of a ban, so the players who are against this form of griefing need to ban together and work to increase the public knowledge and shut these people down with their scam organizations. My earlier post lists one solution, a civilized one at that. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if vigilante justice might arise because of this. The roleplay possibilities there are endless, but so would be a council of law enforcement.

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by zell12
If you guys just used the Trading tables like you're supposed to, none of this would happen.

Yes it would, people are stupid and give away stuff x.x

[zell12]

It is their own fault if they don't ask a friend what something is worth. It is their own fault if they are scammed when they do not use a trading table or trading menu. It is their own fault.

[GoZelda]

That's your opinion - and i'm certain Majin's is different

narkotic boy, it can be fairly easily be RPed. Say person X scammed Lord Yly Yson of (Y), then ofcourse whole kingdom Y will hunt after X, and it is quite RPly

[zell12]

It is also the opinion of the Administrators.

[Majin_Mush]

No you can't be banned for this.
And GOzelda stop ur nonsense about RPing...
Scamming is RP-ing? Well if you say yes then go to hell.

And Zell most of people still get scammed on some way by the tables..
I do not know how this is happening but.....

GOzelde you really can't send any Respectable messages do you?
Is that RPing?

[narkotic]

Heh, you call them stupid for losing their stuff. You call them stupid because they don't know the value for an item (which seems to drastically change, you cannot argue that. The economy in this game stinks). The fact is, this is all ignorance on the part of the players who become victims. Ignorance isn't the same as being stupid. Thinking that way is actually being stupid.

Yah I agree, players should ask around before they sell or pay for something to find the value. The trade tables and trade menu should also be used. A newbie player, however, does not know of all these things. They are ignorant to what you expect them to already know.

Still, everything you've said zell12, doesn't justify that these people should be scamming others. Just because of their ignorance they deserve to be scammed? Nope, scamming is still wrong. Maybe rather than telling people they are stupid and it's all their fault for losing their stuff, we should try to tell them what they need to do and perhaps help them out in recovering their stuff like Majin_Mush is doing for his friends. That or blacklist those scammers and punish them for taking advantage of others.

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by Majin_Mush
Scamming is RP-ing? Well if you say yes then go to hell.

I'm already there :grin:

I didn't said scamming is RPing, but that you can have an RPly reaction on scamming.

Same person
GOzelde you really can't send any Respectable messages do you?
Is that RPing?

It has nothing to do with RPing because the forums are ooc.

Do you know what ooc means?

[narkotic]

You have to admit, though, that the first reaction of a player who has been scammed isn't going to be 'Oh boy, this looks like an opportunity for me to express myself in an in character manner. I will get all of my friends involved in a roleplay manner, and we will go after this ole chap and confront him as he sells my stolen equipment to the highest bidder.' Read the post about the council, this can be completely justified as a roleplaying situation. A scammer case brought before the council, a council composed of members of all kingdoms and non kingdoms (like from significant clans like TBC) who condemn thieves and announce that they are marked.

All the Kingdoms in this game are against scamming. Part of the recruitment policy is that you give your word to not be a scammer and bring dishonor to your kingdom. With all the alliances currently in place, you'd think that the combined might of these large organizations would be able to inform the public, in a roleplaying manner, that this person is condemned as a thief, that they are not to be trusted, and should be banned from all means of trade. Their goods are tainted, and could possibly be gained from unjust means. Would you really want to buy items from these people if they ruthlessly tricked another player who unknowingly trusted this person? Are you supporting scamming with these statements by putting the blame completely onto the victim of the crime?

Cyrin, kiddo, I'd appreciate it if you showed a bit more respect as well and not call me boy again. If anything, the name is Norm, don't forget.

Oh, and you are right about the forums being OOC and such. Yes, very true on that. Although, a great number of influential people read these forums. The reputation you create on it does become noted. It's best to remain respectful to the people you speak to despite how they respond to you. You become the bigger man that way, as they sometimes say.

[Majin_Mush]

I could maybe give a RPly reaction but it drives me crazy see all the people getting scammed..