What makes a good manager?

[Kaimetsu]

Opinions. Before answering, please try to think objectively. The answer's in the question, people.

[Darlene159]

Someone who does their job to the best of their ability, follows rules and guidelines as they are set (you cant expect others to follow them if you dont), someone who is honest, someone who treats people with respect, someone with patience to deal with problems as they arise (and in a calm manor)

I am sure there is more, but that's off the top of my head

[ETD]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Opinions. Before answering, please try to think objectively. The answer's in the question, people.

By 'in the question' I suppose you mean the obviouse answer 'They need to manage well'?

Well, I agree, but it can be broken down:

they need to be able to:
1. Manage their own time, as well as the time used on PW projects well
2. Have at least a very basic understanding of graphics, scripting, and level making...
3. To be patient
4. Be a natural leader
5. Understand a bit about human nature
6. Be organized

I can't really think of anything else, though I am probably missing something... and I know this is probably going to start some big argument, but I don't agree that a manager is good, simply because they "do their job to the best of their ability" or follow the rules. I agree with the honesty to a point, and I obviously agree that they need to be patient... but I think a manager can try as hard as they want... they could be online every second of their free time... but that, in no way, makes them a good manager.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by ETD
By 'in the question' I suppose you mean the obviouse answer 'They need to manage well'?

Correct. 20 K-Points.

A person is a competent manager if they competently fulfil the purpose of the role. The real question is this: What is the purpose of a manager? Once that has been established, it's easier to identify qualities that are beneficial.

I don't agree that a manager is good, simply because they "do their job to the best of their ability" or follow the rules.

...

I think a manager can try as hard as they want... they could be online every second of their free time... but that, in no way, makes them a good manager.

Make that 40 K-Points ^_^

Undoubtedly this hinges as much on skills as attitude. I'm sure you can recognise the trend amongst those who place higher importance on the latter.

[Darlene159]

but I don't agree that a manager is good, simply because they "do their job to the best of their ability" or follow the rules. I agree with the honesty to a point, and I obviously agree that they need to be patient... but I think a manager can try as hard as they want... they could be online every second of their free time... but that, in no way, makes them a good manager.

Obviously I dont believe that those two things combined make a good manager either, as that is not all I said....Obviously, there are alot of things that go into being a good manager, but these are still needed qualities

It is true that it is extremely helpful for the manager to know some scripting, as well as other things in making a PW....but I do not believe that a person cant manage well without them, but it is really hard on Graal because staff is so limited, so chances of a PW manager failing if they cant do these things, are likely if they arent well know, well liked, or has an awesome PW in the making (or already made)....the staff just wont be there to do the things that you cannot do
But, that in no way means that the manager is a bad manager

[Androk]

What makes a good manager?

A Hardworking person. Frankly speaking only 1 person tends to do smething on the server: Manager. Simply because that one person is the only one who has true vision of his server.

Charismatic person. If a person is charismatic, he/she can hold on to staff better.

Inspiring Person. If person does not inspire everyone else to work, forget it.

Thank You.

[deman1171]

There aren't many good managers however, i mean just go to any playerworld and see a bunch of staff and the manager saying
::omg rpaz j00!!111::

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by deman1171
There aren't many good managers however, i mean just go to any playerworld and see a bunch of staff and the manager saying
::omg rpaz j00!!111::

The ones who act like that, aren't interested in managing a server, or making it the best they can...they only want something to "own", the toys to abuse people with to make them feel all powerful, their own little playground......

[osrs]

I don't think the manager should be scripter or level maker as someone said, all he has do to is control the server.
The greatest manager for me was Kamuii. (Only an opinion though, no need to judge.)

[syltburk]

Simple, doing there work,

managing the server, it can get no harder.

[mhermher]

Originally posted by syltburk
Simple, doing there work,

managing the server, it can get no harder.

Hah, what a foolish comment... you don't manage a server, you don't know what you're talking about... if you were in my positision right now, you'd know what a real manager should do and should not do... and it is not "simple"....

[ETD]

Originally posted by Darlene159
but these are still needed qualities

If someone is able to do the things I stated... and not even try their hardest, then they could still be a great manager...

I see no link between trying your hardest, and being a good manager. You could do a 1/2 azz job, and still be a good manager, if you were a good enough leader, organizer, and good at managing your time.

Also, I said BASIC knowlege... like, they don't need to be able to script NPC's, and stuff... just have a basic understanding of how scripting works, and level making, and stuff... because, how would you know if your staff is doing a lot of work, or doing a good job, if you know nothing about these things?

Originally posted by Androk
A Hardworking person. Frankly speaking only 1 person tends to do smething on the server: Manager. Simply because that one person is the only one who has true vision of his server.

I can think of at least 5 staff members that do more work on EoA than I do, and I am the manager... I don't think that makes me a bad manager... I mean, I manage, and they develope... and I view development as being harder work than management. Management is just the kind of thing you are either good at, or bad at... there is little room for improvement.

I also thought of something else that is needed. They must be a friend, as well as a boss to their staff. they must also be respected by their staff.. if a staff losses it's respect for it's manager... well, that's bad
:P

Originally posted by mhermher

Hah, what a foolish comment... you don't manage a server, you don't know what you're talking about... if you were in my positision right now, you'd know what a real manager should do and should not do... and it is not "simple"....

He said it can get NO harder... as in, there is no harder job, than to manage a PW...

Though, I think my developers have a harder job than I have... since my job is just mental work, and theirs is more laborous (sp?)

[Deek2]

I don't think what makes a good manager lies in what that manager can do, but rather how well he can do it. Anyone can manage a server, but do you think that all of them can do it proficiently?

[syltburk]

Originally posted by mhermher


Hah, what a foolish comment... you don't manage a server, you don't know what you're talking about... if you were in my positision right now, you'd know what a real manager should do and should not do... and it is not "simple"....

lol thats pretty funny you know, read again and again and again untill you anderstand, then post okay?

[zell12]

In order to Manage your server properly, you need to have good organization skills, be able to motivate your staff, motivate yourself, and you also need to have good attitude towards yourself, others, and the work your staff do, conciderating it was done on time and to the best of their ability.

Expect nothing less than their best effort.

[Milkdude99]

Someone said if you had the skills you could do a half-arse job and be a good Manager, bah humbug I really disagree with that statement. As in life you will only get out of it what you put into it, if you do a half-arse job you will have a half-arse server. Having a general knowledge of all aspects of a server is a plus BUT if you don't then you need to have the wisdom of at least surround yourself with those who do know quite a bit in what you are lacking. People skills and being able to deal with people as well as others have said, keeping things organized.

Have an overall plan of what you are striving for your PW. Be able to be somewhat flexible with your plans to include new ideas that fit your basic theme of what you are doing. Be open and honest with all your dealings not just the Staff. Don't make promises you can't keep; people are quick to pick up on things you promise and don't get done. Be the example to Staff on how things should be done, don't wait on someone else to do it. NEVER ask someone to do something you would not do yourself. Don't blow people off when they ask something of you even if you really don't think it is worth the time and effort. It is the small things you do with Players and Staff alike that will stand out the most.

Talk to your players and Staff, too many times Managers think they are above the players and they are not worth their time to answer a PM, answer all of them no matter how trivial they are. Sure a Manager is busy but if you are too busy to answer PMs then get offline, don't ignore the players, this will bring a quick bad judgment of you and your PW. If you are working online make sure all the players know this before you start and is also reflected by your nick. But most of all when your done make yourself for at least a little while available to the players who feel the need they want or have to talk to you. This is just a few things I feel will aid someone in managing a server better.

[davidpsy]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
stuff

I just wish I could shout that I have all these things without looking stupid, because I do. I talk to the players and I answer all their questions I give anyone the time of day no matter who they are and forgive anyone who asks for forgiveness. I put my self in their shoes and walk a mile and back. I wish more people would do this.

Sure newbies and just players in general get annoying sometimes "Can I be faq cheif can I be gp cheif?" But they are people too and should be answered, though they should have more common sence.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by davidpsy


I just wish I could shout that I have all these things without looking stupid, because I do. I talk to the players and I answer all their questions I give anyone the time of day no matter who they are and forgive anyone who asks for forgiveness. I put my self in their shoes and walk a mile and back. I wish more people would do this.

Sure newbies and just players in general get annoying sometimes "Can I be faq cheif can I be gp cheif?" But they are people too and should be answered, though they should have more common sence.

Thats good to hear and it's a shame that nowadays many Managers don't; the exception are those that do.

[Gambet]

SkyBlazer's Opinion On A Good Manager

A good manager is someone who can mamage the server well. Someone who doesnt hesitate to make decisions and someone that is always there when needed. Someone who cares greatly for there server and give respect to everyone.

Someone who doesnt ignore everyone and controls any problems or conflicts in the server, between staff, between graalians, or between staff and graalians. A good manager should be able to handle there staff and let them know that hes boss, in other words, a good manager wont let his staff members or the fellow graalian members step all over him and take advantage of him.

A good manager is someone who is on for most of the week and someone who can take responsibility. Someone who can be trusted by everyone and someone that some graalians and/or staff may even admire. Someone that if he/she quit the server, they will be missed very greatly and will be known as manager for the rest of the time that the server is up. A manager should never ignore graalians or there staff, unless he/she is really irritating and they constantly just pm them to bother, and even if that where the case, they should still check to see what they want for it may be important.

A good manager should know how to handle any problems in the server and should be able to know what to do if a staff has gone corrupt and is deleting everything. A good manager shouldnt be someone who paniks because of corrupt staff or hackers, they should be able to deal with the problems themselves in a calm manner.

A good manager doesnt have to be someone who can scripts/make levels/ make ganis/ make gfx, no, a good manager should be able to manage there server and they should gain the honor of saying that they own that server.

Thats just some things, but i think i mainly hit the point.

[davidpsy]

Originally posted by Gambet
SkyBlazer's Opinion On A Good Manager
*snip*

Please use paragraphs next time.

[Gambet]

This isnt an essay so i have no intends on indenting and making paragraphs, if its to long for your knowledge then dont read it.

[Kaimetsu]

Lemme break this down. The purpose of the manager differs between perspectives, but it's generally defined as: the maximisation of the playerworld's quality and popularity.

Procuring Staff: The ability to persuade people to work for the server. This is obviously easier if the server is already good.

Managing Staff: Inspiring them, giving them work that they are happy and able to complete, keeping them focused and interested in developing.

At the same time, regulating their behaviour, preventing them from slipping into corruption. Making sure their rights are suitably restrictive, monitoring their actions, ensuring that they're deserving of their jobs.

Creative Direction: Very few people mentioned this, but it's extremely important. The manager should be the designer for the whole world, not the developers. It's his job to make sure that the world is consistent and balanced.

Too many playerworlds suffer from creative stagnation. Nothing new, nothing interesting. That's why places like Oasis are always so enticing - they offer the Graalian something that they've never seen before.

Development: Managers should develop, or at least have the ability to develop. A good knowledge of scripting is extremely valuable for two reasons:

1) It makes planning easier - you know what is possible and what isn't. You can place your ideas firmly on the edge of feasibility, where they belong.
2) You can build the core systems, and know for sure that they're operating how you want them to. These are things that are going to come into effect wherever the player is, and also attract new players to the server (a nice combat system is more intriguing than a nice level or whatever).

Public Relations: Representing the playerworld, both on the forums and ingame. Putting it in a good light (hopefully where it belongs). Making sure the players are happy, and addressing their problems.

Note that I haven't mentioned anything even related to attitude. Why? Because it doesn't matter. If you do all of the above, you're a good manager. If you don't, you're not. Attitude can contribute, but it can't substitute.

[davidpsy]

Originally posted by Gambet
This isnt an essay so i have no intends on indenting and making paragraphs, if its to long for your knowledge then dont read it.

But its easyer to read and if you want people to read your post which is the reason you posted it for people to read then you should do all in your power so people can read it. As long as its not too much of a hassle.


Dont quote me on this later and make me look like a hypocrite.

[Gambet]

ok then......i edited it, better now? x_X

[davidpsy]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
*snip*

A good knowledge of scriptings is a nice thing to have but having the ability to tell your staff how you want something done can be just as important if not a great deal more important then being able to do the scripting your self. Some managers cannot do everything so their ability to explain how they want things should be good. Lets say you have a manager who can script very well better then the allmighty kaimetsu, but his ability to explain things to his staff is poor. The server will have systems and be played out as he wants as far as systems and coding goes but the graphical covering and wireframe levels may not be what he ogrinally intended. Thus his ability to explain things would indeed be of greater value then his ability to script. A good manager in my mind would be alot like how you invisioned one.

[edit]attitude does matter to an extent, assuming that the basic manager has a strong will and strives to make a great playerworld and treats his fellow staff with love and respect then yes as far as the rest goes it simply does not matter. But this is not always the case I am afraid, a manager could have all the qualitys that you stated but if he does not have the will and or drive to complete his playerworld and keep it in a ship shape aka still be treating the staff with love and respect then the playerworld will come crashing down. [/edit]

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by davidpsy
A good knowledge of scriptings is a nice thing to have but having the ability to tell your staff how you want something done can be just as important if not a great deal more important then being able to do the scripting your self.

*shrugs*

I wasn't delving into which are more important than others. Generally good scripters are good at explaining ideas, anyway.

[davidpsy]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


*shrugs*

I wasn't delving into which are more important than others. Generally good scripters are good at explaining ideas, anyway.

Not always, but generally they are. Please respond to the edited part I just added.

[Gambet]

Well a manager that can script would be nice, but that doesnt really make a manager bad if they cant script. I learned how to script as one of the first things i did when i started graal so i cant really say i know how it is to be a manager that cant script cause that would be a lie.

[davidpsy]

Originally posted by Gambet
Well a manager that can script would be nice, but that doesnt really make a manager bad if they cant script. I learned how to script as one of the first things i did when i started graal so i cant really say i know how it is to be a manager that cant script cause that would be a lie.

I'm not a very good scripter, I know the basics but nothing like how to create q menus. I make great graphic's my self and I like to think I am a good at explaining my plans and I am open to my staffs ideas.

[mhermher]

Originally posted by syltburk

lol thats pretty funny you know, read again and again and again untill you anderstand, then post okay?

Thahahahaha, no i won't "anderstand". Jaffer i'm not stupid.. stop trying to change your opinion because someone who don't even understands it backs you up.

He said it can get NO harder... as in, there is no harder job, than to manage a PW...

Though, I think my developers have a harder job than I have... since my job is just mental work, and theirs is more laborous (sp?)

Pleaes, don't write anything you don't know off...
I know jaffer, i speak to him about every day, he's swedish, i'm swedish.. what he meant was:

It's simple, just manage!
It can't get harder than just managing..


like it's so easy.. and it won't get harder than very easy..

R3sp3ct--;

THE END.

[syltburk]

Originally posted by mhermher


Thahahahaha, no i won't "anderstand". Jaffer i'm not stupid.. stop trying to change your opinion because someone who don't even understands it backs you up.




Pleaes, don't write anything you don't know off...
I know jaffer, i speak to him about every day, he's swedish, i'm swedish.. what he meant was:

It's simple, just manage!
It can't get harder than just managing..


like it's so easy.. and it won't get harder than very easy..

R3sp3ct--;

THE END.

You dont know what i meant, i dont care if anybody backs me up.
You dont speak to me every day, in fact I dont speak to you alot anymore, there is alot of diffrent phrases in managing. And with that i meant alot of diffrent phrases,
I ment it cant be harder to anderstand, and what i said there was in english, so you obviously didnt anderstand it? right?

[Darlene159]

Note that I haven't mentioned anything even related to attitude. Why? Because it doesn't matter. If you do all of the above, you're a good manager. If you don't, you're not. Attitude can contribute, but it can't substitute.

I agree with alot of what you said, but I do not agree that a person HAS to have all those qualities to be a good manager, and, I do not agree that if they dont have every single one of them, they arent a good manager.
I agree that being able to script, make levels, ect....would be a plus, but I dont agree that it is extremely necessary to be a good manager.
I only know basic scripting, I cant make graphics at all, and I can do levels pretty good....it is true that I had a harder time as far as scripting and graphics, but I dont believe I was a bad manager because of it

also, I believe a persons attitude plays a large part in managing, if a manager has a bad attitude towards the players, they aren't going to feel as comfortable on the PW. It is a fact that alot of players like to talk to the Managers of the PW's, and a large part of players complain about Managers who have bad attitudes...they like to be treating like human beings, not something that is just an annoyence to the manager.

Some of the people who came to Npulse told me that they played there because the Managers actually had conversations with them, and didn't act like they were above them, and that is important to me.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I agree with alot of what you said, but I do not agree that a person HAS to have all those qualities to be a good manager, and, I do not agree that if they dont have every single one of them, they arent a good manager.

A clarification: They don't need to be skilled in every field I listed in order to be described as 'good', but they need to possess at least some of those abilities to a relatively high level.

also, I believe a persons attitude plays a large part in managing

Well yeah, a person's attitude plays a large part in everything they do. But the only effect it has here is to modify the extent to which the person achieves the listed criteria. It's not a factor in judging a manager's abilities.

if a manager has a bad attitude towards the players, they aren't going to feel as comfortable on the PW.

If a manager has a bad attitude towards the players, he/she fails the Public Relations criterion. See?

[ETD]

Originally posted by mhermher

It can't get harder than just managing..

That also means that managing is a hard job
0.0
unless he ment it sarcastically...

and I still think that management is less work, than a development job... if the developer works really hard. I think it takes more work to script 5 things, or make 10 levels in a week, than it is to manage a PW for a week... though, keep in mind, I am only managing an under construction PW, and have not experienced what it is like to manage a public one... but, when you are UC, I think the manager does less work than the developers... then when you go public, the manager probably does more work... though, I can't really know till I try it out
:P

[DarkShadows_Legend]

What makes a good manager?
Someone that has experience in all fields he manages over.
scripting, level making, policing, answering questions, holding the players attention, and I guess some graphics work.
That pretty much covers each position: NAT, LAT, GP, FAQ, ET, GAT.

In my opinion if someone doesn't have any experience in any of those then they don't deserve to be manager period. I know that will piss off most people that are managers here, but oh well.
In real life if I ever worked under a manager that didn't know didly squat about the function of my own job, then he needs me more than anything if he/she themself can't perform the duties that come along with that job.
I would most likely be a pain in that managers ass quite often.
And for real life I was in that situation once. The manager was fired after a couple months because he was unable to train his employees correctly and could not correct their mistakes.

[Kaimetsu]

Management work is mostly reactive, or based on inspiration. Dealing with different issues might take a while, but a dedicated developer is always gonna put in more hours.

As for which is more difficult? It's not really a workable question. Is running more difficult than walking? Is running a hundred metres more difficult than walking a hundred miles? S'all about scales and standards.

[Darlene159]

In my opinion if someone doesn't have any experience in any of those then they don't deserve to be manager period.

So, you are saying because I didnt have knowledge in scripting, and couldn't do graphics at all, that I didn't deserve to be a manager?
I strongly disagree...I may not know how to make a graphic, but I can look at one and tell if it is bad or good, and know if it will work on a PW.
Also, I can do basic scriptin...very basic, but if I couldn't get something fixed, I could always ask someone who knew alot about scripting.
You cant say that I didnt deserve to be a manager just because of those 2 things, or even one thing =/

Kai, I agree with your last post that was a reply to me

[konidias]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Creative Direction: Very few people mentioned this, but it's extremely important. The manager should be the designer for the whole world, not the developers. It's his job to make sure that the world is consistent and balanced.

Too many playerworlds suffer from creative stagnation. Nothing new, nothing interesting. That's why places like Oasis are always so enticing - they offer the Graalian something that they've never seen before.

I'm flattered.

I know I'm not perfect, and I have a lot to work on still. Especially noting that your enthusiam of my management skills in the past was severly small, maybe non-existant. I've a lot to learn, I know.

I can't agree with the view that a manager does not need developer skills. No matter how well you envision your perfect playerworld, it will not exist unless you can make it happen. It's not impossible to maintain a good playerworld with no real development skills of your own. But the challenge is to keep the staff that you have, and make sure they stay active, and bring your vision to life. You can't consider yourself a good manager if you say, "Well, my playerworld would be great, but we don't have many staff so we aren't getting things done".

[mhermher]

Originally posted by ETD

That also means that managing is a hard job
0.0
unless he ment it sarcastically...

It was sarcasm.

Originally posted by ETD

and I still think that management is less work, than a development job... if the developer works really hard. I think it takes more work to script 5 things, or make 10 levels in a week, than it is to manage a PW for a week... though, keep in mind, I am only managing an under construction PW, and have not experienced what it is like to manage a public one... but, when you are UC, I think the manager does less work than the developers... then when you go public, the manager probably does more work... though, I can't really know till I try it out
:P

Depens on who, i'm manager.. i do all work.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by konidias
I'm flattered.

I know I'm not perfect, and I have a lot to work on still. Especially noting that your enthusiam of my management skills in the past was severly small, maybe non-existant. I've a lot to learn, I know.

*shrugs*

We criticise one another quite often, but I think there's still a fair degree of mutual respect. I don't think you're the best debater in the world, and I disagree with some of your design decisions, but I still acknowledge that you're an intelligent, creative person. Whether or not it's apparent, I like you most of the time. I'm not going to hold a grudge and ignore all your good points just because we argued about a few things.