Penalty for dying

[Admins]

Currently you lose money and items depending on your level. The idea is to change it, and make it so that you lose your readied weapon instead, and make reading of weapons and putting it back into the bag quite slow (5-10 seconds). So when you pull out your sword or axe you show that you want to fight and might lose it if you die. On the other hand when you are peaceful and don't use weapons you wouldn't need to fear to lose stuff.

[Neoreno]

Eh..I don't particularly like that idea.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Stefan
Currently you lose money and items depending on your level. The idea is to change it, and make it so that you lose your readied weapon instead, and make reading of weapons and putting it back into the bag quite slow (5-10 seconds). So when you pull out your sword or axe you show that you want to fight and might lose it if you die. On the other hand when you are peaceful and don't use weapons you wouldn't need to fear to lose stuff.

That would annoy so many people, considering they spend 10k-ish on a weapon, so if they die they just lost alot of money rather than less 200 plat. I don't mind the idea being implemented (because I don't use weapons, go brigid! ), alot of people would protest, but it may cut down on the number of PKers around. Also would that mean if you had a wand equipped you would lose that? If yes, then the cure is carrying around a cheap wand, if not, then you're fine. Myself, I would sell any weapons from PKers, I don't care if they hate me for it, it would be their fault from attempting to kill me (although if it's really good I may use it as an animated weapon )

[-Albus]

The penalty you should get for dying should stay as is, and possibly add a chance of stat loss. To get your stats back you should have to pay a healer in town.

[Satrek2000]

Losing the weapon you use would (sorry) suck IMHO - you spend all your money on a wespon, improve it, get it blessed to whoever +4, then go battle, enter the dungeon, hunt down a lord, kill him in a fierce battle, then some Newbie comes, casts lightning or whatever and kills you as you're at low HP and takes your weapon. I agree with the others that I'd rather lose 200 plats than lose a weapon...
Longer equipment times wouldn't hurt though.

[MasterNuke]

I think it shoud be temporary level loss that can be restored by waiting a really long time or using a potion of life... or praying

Example... Jumbo Jim, a Priest, dies at level 20 to three bosses that just happen to be there to team up on him... he loses 1/4 exp equilivent in levels temporary... he decides to wait for it and waits 3x his level in minutes... 60 minutes/1 hour... after the hour... somehow the monster that killed him returns and kills him again... instead of stacking on level loss... it adds 1.5x the origional level in minutes to how long he must wait... in this case... 30 minutes... he gets sick of waiting outside because of the dangers and waits inside for the rest of the boring time... after the time is up... he regains the levels lost and is returned to his maximum potential... he then walks outside and gets PKed by Capt. Crunch and dies again... but because he was PKed instead of being killed by a monster... he only has to wait half the time as opposed to being killed by monster... after PKed and only being PKed... he gets 3 seconds of temporary invulnerability... he then gets stalked by a group of "cereal killers" and gets PKed like mad... but it doesn't add to the time he must wait to be restored... his g/f Venilde somehow kills them all the PKers and then traps Jim on a bed... he is restored 2x faster and they run off happy and whatever.

Review:
All deaths have 1/4 exp equiv loss in levels...
Killed by monster: (level x 3) in minutes
Each additional death until restored: +(level x 1.5) in minutes

Killed by player(PvP non-arena): (level x 1.5) in minutes
Each additional PvP death until restored: None.

Resting in bed: 2x faster restore
Sitting(including /sit): 1.5 faster restore
Resting in bed in a player built house: 3x faster restore
Drinking potion of life: Instant restore
Praying: Varies
Swimming: Pauses the timer
Poison, Disease, Confusion, Slow, etc.: 3x SLOWER restore


Just my few sudgestions from myself =)

[Satrek2000]

That sounds better - costs less money. And maybe you should make it so that deaths suffered from rabbits, mushrooms bomys and potatos don't cound, as you'd either have to be very weak or very stupid to get killed by one of those.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by MasterNuke
stuff

I agree with the waiting thing, but i think if you use /sleep it should recover faster, and be an instant restore if someone casts restoration on you

[zell12]

I still want the dead corpses added when you die so you can:
a) as a ghost find your corpse where you died.
b) someone can use ressurection and bring you back from the dead.

No more losing any items or money. =/
This would be better for rping anyway.

[Wonderboy_13]

Stefan the penatly for dying should be:

1. partial money loss
2. you get the Death Penalty, death penalty would be in %, lets say I die, I would get 1% death penalty max is 5%, the 1% would make u lose 1 stat of each statistic, but not permanent, it would make you gain 500 exp to lose 1% so when u earn all ur % back to 0 by gaining the exact ammount of EXP that it says
for the max of 15% it wold be like 5,000XP depending on level

3. the item your wielding, if its prepared then you cant drop it, only unprepared weapons would be lost.

and thats all

prepared weapons should not fall...

[Kaimetsu]

I like the idea of applying the penalties only if the person is wielding his/her weapon at the time, but:

1) What about pickaxes etc? Tools and weapons - do they count? Probably shouldn't - who'd fight with a pickaxe anyway?

2) I don't think that losing the weapon is the way to go, since people put so much effort into improving them. But there should definitely be some penalty. Perhaps one based around time? The player needs to recover their corpse to get their items back (they could still be in the inventory, but flagged as hidden until the corpse has been recovered or a certain period of time has passed - that way they don't lose their stuff if the corpse NPC dies).

3) Perhaps instead of making sheathing/unsheathing take large amounts of time, it could work like this: The player can draw their weapon instantly, as is currently the case. However, he/she can only sheathe it if they have not used it in the last twenty seconds. This way they can't quickly opt out of fights (they must run and not fight for at least twenty seconds), but it doesn't inconvenience those who aren't engaging in PvP fighting.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
I like the idea of applying the penalties only if the person is wielding his/her weapon at the time, but:

1) What about pickaxes etc? Tools and weapons - do they count? Probably shouldn't - who'd fight with a pickaxe anyway?

I would, if it was blessed and prepared.. can it be prepared anymore? Dunno, but it would work since its the only weapon-like thing i can use

2) I don't think that losing the weapon is the way to go, since people put so much effort into improving them. But there should definitely be some penalty.

how about you can't use that weapon for 10 minutes? same effect, no weapon loss.

Originally posted by zell12
I still want the dead corpses added when you die so you can:
a) as a ghost find your corpse where you died.
b) someone can use ressurection and bring you back from the dead.

No more losing any items or money. =/
This would be better for rping anyway.

This would be a good idea if RESURECTION DIDN'T REQUIRE 150 GRACE!!!! Stefan, change some of the grace values needed to get medium and high spells/artifacts, 150 is just obsurd.

[konidias]

So wait, are you saying you go in and out of peaceful mode based on whether your weapon is weilded or not? If that's not what you're saying, the idea would totally not be good.

If there would still be the same battle mode peaceful mode thing, people that are sitting down with their weapon put away, could get attacked. They would have no choice but to fight or run, and usually the person is fast or faster than you so running isn't an option. You just let them beat you? I think that would be pretty annoying. I think the death thing is okay as it is right now, although I think you should make penalties on the killers, instead of those being killed.

All you're doing by making the money loss thing and all these penalties for death, is encouraging playerkilling. If it becomes even more annoying to be killed, pkers will find pure joy in doing it as often as they can.

[zell12]

I like one thing now that you explained it Koni; however, not as you see it. I think the peaceful/battle mode could be changed like that. So in order to attack (draw your weapon or staff), you must be on battle mode. When you unequip your weapon or staff, you go on peaceful mode. It's a nice idea, but then comes the issue of players abusing it. :o

Mabey you can make a few tweaks in the system to change this around, such as:

When the player is attacked by someone, (if on battle mode) he will have to stay on battle mode until he dies, or unless he flees for 20 seconds or more, (meaning he musn't get hit again in 20 seconds) that would be an almost sure way of stoping the abuse.


About the grace stuff, how medium and high, it should be changed soon, after all the artifact weapons are completed, and alchemy is finished. Then low would be 50(100 at alter), medium 75(150 at alter), and high 100(200 at alter).

The reason it is so high on the mudlib is because the game that uses this mudlib made it easy to obtain weapons and level up.

[Satrek2000]

I don't like the idea that you're in battlemode whenever you use a weapon - imagine you kill bomys for fun or exp, and someone high-leveled runs by, slashes at you twice and you're dead - no chance to run. I wouldn't touch the system as it is...

[zell12]

I think it is a good system, however, HP really needs to be increased. ;x

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by konidias
If there would still be the same battle mode peaceful mode thing, people that are sitting down with their weapon put away, could get attacked.

If you have your weapon drawn, you are in battle mode. If you do not, you are in peaceful mode. You can't be PKed in peaceful mode so Joe SittingDownWithWeaponPutAway could not be attacked.

[graaliholic]

YAY, that means I'll NEVER be in battle mode because I can't weild a weapon. So therefore I don't think it would work, and it would make spells 52% useless.

[zell12]

Weapon OR a staff. Mabey it would be like Diablo then, with the little buttion thing

[Admins]

Yes it would be a replacement for the current battle mode. When you have a weapon or staff in your hands then you are in battle mode, you need to wait 10-20 seconds before being able to put it back in the inventory. That everything is based so much on a few single items is a problem though, when an item is so valuable that no one wants to risk to lose it then it shouldnt be so easy to use it? I mean in real life no one wears a 10-million-dollar-hat since it could easily be stolen. Normally the skill to fight good depends more on the warrior than on the sharpness of the sword, it should be more balanced somehow?

[DragonX]

Originally posted by Stefan
I mean in real life no one wears a 10-million-dollar-hat since it could easily be stolen.

You never know, some people might, but they also have bodyguards to protect them wherever they go. So maybe in some place, you can hire bodyguards to protect you when you are walking around without a weapon/wand in hand? lol

[zell12]

Losing your improved weapon is stupid. Period.

[Satrek2000]

YOu draw a weapon, you're in battlemode? That's the most abuseable thing I heard in a while, sorry to say that. A few days ago I animated a flaming sword of ogma +3 - someone with lv22 killed the weapon, took it and claimed it was his - just to point out the way some people play. Now say you're just having fun killing bomys - or dievils, if you want. The same guy runs by, slashes you twice and you die - what's the fun in that?

[zell12]

Gah, I just explained a way so this system is not abused and you completly ignore it. Go read it again.

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by zell12
When the player is attacked by someone, (if on battle mode) he will have to stay on battle mode until he dies, or unless he flees for 20 seconds or more, (meaning he musn't get hit again in 20 seconds) that would be an almost sure way of stoping the abuse.

I did.. if I'm right to guess that this is what you referr to. So... if I get you right... A attacks B while both are in battle mode. B's only choice (apart from fighting back) is to run and not get hit in 20 seconds, and by doing so get back to peaceful mode. Okay, but seeing that stronger people are faster, too, this seems to be a little counter-productive - weak B can't run as fast nor fight back a strong A with his improved weapon, and can't avoid being PKed. Also, there still remains the drawback that you can't do anything about being PKed while your HP is low after fighting monsters - if one hit can kill you, you don't even get the chance to run.

[Locke_boy]

Originally posted by zell12
About the grace stuff, how medium and high, it should be changed soon, after all the artifact weapons are completed, and alchemy is finished. Then low would be 50(100 at alter), medium 75(150 at alter), and high 100(200 at alter).

The reason it is so high on the mudlib is because the game that uses this mudlib made it easy to obtain weapons and level up.

Yeah, someone change this soon ..

I want Gloves of the Sun.

.. oh .. this reminds me. I heard a while back that there are going to be whip-type weapons, and that the vine-whips might be usable by Brigid followers .. is this true? I hope so, that'd be very nice ..

.. and the thing with animated weapon, where the sword is dropped to the ground if it's killed .. that's incredibly unfair .. you spend 1000's on a great sword, animate it (say you can't use weapons), and then someone kills it and runs away with it. Oh, that's grand .. that should be changed ..


.. and about death. There needs to be a bigger penalty for death. I really think that corpses should be implemented (along with another reasonable form of punishment). The implementing of corpses would give a use to the prayer "resurrection" .. and perhaps even, you could use a potion of life on a dead body to revive it somehow ..

.. well that's all from me for now.

[zell12]

There are whips in the mudlib, would be nice to see them on GK. >:]

[Tyhm]

Battle mode should trigger when you swing at a player, not when you have a weapon drawn. But then, it's never easy to tell intention - I might be hacking at a bomy innocently and get killed by a PKer, and Thanatos might go around casting storm a little to the left of his targets to kill them without going into battle mode...if an area effect hits a player, are you in battle mode by default?

[Com013]

Switching to battle mode when you hit someone ... hmm...
Imagine you are fighting a lord using magic bullets. Someone wants to help you, attacks it with a melee weapon and gets hit by your bulllet. You are in battle mode.

I think the peacefull/battlemode system should stay the way it is.
But to stop players from using improved weapons for PKing, you could add a "blood" flag to a weapon when you hit a player with it (in battle mode). The flag disapears after one minute.
In each town there is a guard. When a guard can see you with a weapon or spell that has the flag set, he tells you to stop and takes the weapon (or spell) away from you.
If you run away before the guard can do that, you will get an "outlaw" flag, which means that the next guard seeing you would catch you and put you in prison.
You have to stay (online) in the prison for one minute each level you have. You can also pay 10 plats to get a minute less.

To avoid losing your weapon or spell you have to fight in an arena or you have to avoid the towns when you are carrying a bloody weapon or spell.

The removed weapons could fly around animated in the dungeons (but with a lot of hitpoints), the spells could be in strong elementals (the strength should depend on the value of the spell). When you kill them you get whatever was taken away.

I know this can sound quite radical, but:

Originally posted by Stefan
I mean in real life no one wears a 10-million-dollar-hat since it could easily be stolen. Normally the skill to fight good depends more on the warrior than on the sharpness of the sword, it should be more balanced somehow?

And my idea would hurt the killer, too, not just the victim.

[Satrek2000]

Doesn't sound too bad - but there should be a way to get rid of the blood-flag without losing anything, not even a few minutes - as in your example, your magic bullet would be flagged even without you intending to attack a player, and also people could run into your spells to get you blooded. How about this, if you hit a player you get a value 'blood' of 2^(hits). So the first hit gives blood 2, the 10th blood 1024. Killing a player adds some thousands. Till, say, 500, nothing happens. Above that value, said guards will warn you, then disable the apropriate spell for a while, and eventually jail you - killing 2 people will get you a candidate for jail automatically. Running adds points, like teo for every second that passes after you saw a guard trying to get you. The points would either cease over time, one for each second, or you could go to jail and pay them off. Another way might be praying and being blessed or something.

Edit: maybe improved weapons should give more points than normal weapons...