Stefan...Unixmad...

Chronos · #1 09-21-2002, 06:20 AM

Not a flame. Not a grudge. Not even a word of profanity nor a grumbled word...

Just one question, which the answer to *should* have been answered to the Graal public weeks ago:

What is so wrong with the current system that we have to replace the system with an easily corruptible one?

Torankusu · #2 09-21-2002, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chronos
Not a flame. Not a grudge. Not even a word of profanity nor a grumbled word...

Just one question, which the answer to *should* have been answered to the Graal public weeks ago:

What is so wrong with the current system that we have to replace the system with an easily corruptible one?

i love you!@

Chronos · #3 09-21-2002, 06:24 AM

I love you tew!@

Torankusu · #4 09-21-2002, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chronos
I love you tew!@

Well, the way I saw the administration ran was:
-Unixmad was in charge of everything staff wise
-Alkaren and Nemesis handled many things relating to playerworlds and accounts
-Lyndzey was a great accounts admin

I didn't see many faults, except it got to the point where they didn't communicate well.

Chronos · #5 09-21-2002, 06:33 AM

I agree. Communication can be fixed, and simply replacing good, hard-working staff with players that...are less quality...isn't a good remedy to the situation.

konidias · #6 09-21-2002, 06:42 AM

People have been complaining about the staff organization for as long as I can remember... I don't know if it will ever be good enough for everyone to feel happy with.

Chronos · #7 09-21-2002, 06:56 AM

Considering you officially replaced 3 people with a lot of friends, who worked hard, and did not abuse their powers, I doubt you will for years to come. Sorry.

Nemesis · #8 09-21-2002, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
People have been complaining about the staff organization for as long as I can remember... I don't know if it will ever be good enough for everyone to feel happy with.

It had a lot of promise till about a month ago...Things were on the rise...now...anyways :: rolls eyes ::

konidias · #9 09-21-2002, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chronos
Considering you officially replaced 3 people with a lot of friends, who worked hard, and did not abuse their powers, I doubt you will for years to come. Sorry.

I'm sorry, but my direct actions had no affect on these people. It wasn't my decision to remove people. Don't put the blame on me please.

Chronos · #10 09-21-2002, 08:40 AM

Hey, I know exactly what it's like, I replaced Lyndzey and Hoss when they left in a very short amount of time. Everyone hated me. Sadly for your sake, you made a lot of people upset including me. sure, it may not be your fault, but you're an official scapegoat. I don't particularly blame you, but the-blaming-Stefan-&-Unix fad was sooo 2 years ago.

Googi · #11 09-21-2002, 09:42 AM

I thought Alky and Nemesis both quit...

R0b1n-NPC · #12 09-21-2002, 07:59 PM

i dunno, someone told me nem got fired

Milkdude99 · #13 09-21-2002, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by R0b1n-NPC
i dunno, someone told me nem got fired

As I know it and talked to Nem last night , no he is not fired at the moment and has not quit. This just seems to be a restructuring phase Graal is going thru , so just be patient and Unixmad will announce his plan when he is done.

konidias · #14 09-21-2002, 11:20 PM

I believe unixmad has removed Nemesis and Alkaren because they do nothing but argue with him and it's getting none of them anywhere.

archaonTCN · #15 09-21-2002, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
I believe unixmad has removed Nemesis and Alkaren because they do nothing but argue with him and it's getting none of them anywhere.

Yeah:
"You need to realize you have to change this and that, Unixmad!"

"Sorry I don't need anti-graalians as staff, you are fired!@!!"

Milkdude99 · #16 09-21-2002, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
I believe unixmad has removed Nemesis and Alkaren because they do nothing but argue with him and it's getting none of them anywhere.

ummmm well this is not good , from the stand point of arguing with Unixmad .It is one thing to express and idea or point but you still have to respect the Owners wishes whether you "agree" with it or not and do what they wish to do .I know at times Nem is hard headed and wants things his way. But to be any good at being an Admin you must be able to do not only what you would "like" to see done but what the Owner wants to be done.Since Graal is their livelyhood and it pays their bills for their Family they have the right to direct its future no matter what anyone else thinks .People who work for other people do not know all that is involved and don't have the "big picture" so to speak and should just try to do the best job at what they have been given to do to make things run smoothly.Management is not for all , you have to make some tough decisions sometimes and may not always be popular I know this for a fact because Management is something I have done often in real life for companies I have worked for like 'Bordans Dairy , Kraft General Foods and Dean Foods these companies are not small and are major players in the Dairy industry in the USA (billion dollar companies) So I have seen much in management and different ways companies do things but bottom line is "respect the job you have been given and the framework of it " work within you boundries and respect the companies direction and views on what you have to do because if you don't , you will be replaced , its business and nothing personal about it .

konidias · #17 09-21-2002, 11:56 PM

Why the staff think it's okay to insult the management and tell them they aren't doing a good job, and then expect the management not to fire them is beyond me.

You don't go to work and tell your boss that you don't like the way he is doing things and expect him to say "oh gee, thanks for telling me how to do my job! want a raise? *pat on the back*". He would fire you or you can quit, or you just live with it. That is the only option. If you don't like how things are being run, don't go arguing about it, just leave.

People think they are the only people in the world that can do their job. Unixmad could easily hire new people in a heartbeat. There are others that are qualified to fill the job.

Milkdude99 · #18 09-22-2002, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
Why the staff think it's okay to insult the management and tell them they aren't doing a good job, and then expect the management not to fire them is beyond me.

You don't go to work and tell your boss that you don't like the way he is doing things and expect him to say "oh gee, thanks for telling me how to do my job! want a raise? *pat on the back*". He would fire you or you can quit, or you just live with it. That is the only option. If you don't like how things are being run, don't go arguing about it, just leave.

People think they are the only people in the world that can do their job. Unixmad could easily hire new people in a heartbeat. There are others that are qualified to fill the job.

I agree , There are others who do play the game who are well quailfied to help "manage" the Game . The only thing I would like to see , is better communication among not only Staff but Staff to players . Its good to post things here and I applaude those efforts to get things out , but it doesn't do any good for those players who play Classic Servers who do not have Gold accounts and there are many of such players and are many times left in the Dark as to what is going on. In an effort to improve this on Npulse I post important things from Unixmad in the Npulse Forums so they can get these important messages. But we are only one PW and many players don't get the info because they play other PWs and don't use our Forums.

Chronos · #19 09-22-2002, 12:52 AM

Anyway, no reason to reply Konidias, this is directed to Stefan and Unixmad. Of course you'll defend your own job, it takes a lot of ass kissing to get where you are.

Milkdude99 · #20 09-22-2002, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chronos
Anyway, no reason to reply Konidias, this is directed to Stefan and Unixmad. Of course you'll defend your own job, it takes a lot of ass kissing to get where you are.

Ass kissing ? First off I don't kiss anyones ass in real life much less this Game , I worked to get where I am , I didn't start this Game a month ago. Maybe some of us just follow rules as they are laid out to follow and those who don't; don't get anywhere.There is a certain degree of luck in anything sometimes to get places , being in the right place at the right time but this by no means is a result of "ass kissing" and it is obvious you have little or no time in the real world in management , just someone who is jealous of others who may be in a postion you would like to have , but with your attitude you will never see it. He replied to me , I didn't reply to him till he replied to me, kindly look at the order of the post.

DragonX2 · #21 09-22-2002, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Ass kissing ? First off I don't kiss anyones ass in real life much less this Game , I worked to get where I am , I didn't start this Game a month ago. Maybe some of us just follow rules as they are laid out to follow and those who don't; don't get anywhere.There is a certain degree of luck in anything sometimes to get places , being in the right place at the right time but this by no means is a result of "ass kissing" and it is obvious you have little or no time in the real world in management , just someone who is jealous of others who may be in a postion you would like to have , but with your attitude you will never see it. He replied to me , I didn't reply to him till he replied to me, kindly look at the order of the post.

He is talking to Konidias not you......

Milkdude99 · #22 09-22-2002, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DragonX2

He is talking to Konidias not you......

how do you figure that by this ?

Quote:

Anyway, no reason to reply Konidias, this is directed to Stefan and Unixmad. Of course you'll defend your own job, it takes a lot of ass kissing to get where you are.

DragonX2 · #23 09-22-2002, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99

how do you figure that by this ?

Quote:

Anyway, no reason to reply Konidias

That clearly states that Konidias should not reply because it was directed to Stefan and Unixmad not him...

Chronos · #24 09-22-2002, 02:00 AM

Yeah..um...sorry, not everyone talks about you all the time, whoever you are.

gokux33 · #25 09-22-2002, 02:00 AM

Woohoo, 4000th post of this forum.

Tyhm · #26 09-22-2002, 02:01 AM

In my sophomore year of high school, our Humanities class (by which I mean History, but whatever) was covering World War 2. For the section, we were all given a map of a hypothetical world, basically meant to signify europe. Our country, which would be roughly where France is on the map, had sufficient resources to successfully win a war with our neighbors, and we all knew it - however, as I had a deep disdain for my teachers, I opted instead to create a network of alliances, going first to my strongest neighboring country, informing them that they would not be able to conquer the world without bloodshed anyway, inviting them to pool our resources for the peace of the world, etc. I had it all worked out. I was going to achieve world peace in an hour and fifteen minutes or less.

Unfortunately, I wasn't sufficiently quiet with such plan. One of the teacher's pets (and I know pretty well which one) told them all about my "nefarious" scheme to undermine their lesson on the so called geographic inevitability of a second world war, so before I could get my first alliance in they kicked me out of the classroom for disruptive behavior.

I missed the entire game. The one cool thing that happened in that year.

As it later turned out, they had the group in basically Germany (strong army, no navy) refuse all alliances and wage a futile war for the duration, then smugly declared their experiment a success when they lost by professorial decree.

The point? I went up against the true power in that world and lost. Unixmad isn't a video game villain, he's not some Goliath you can David, to verbal a historic noun. He can be reasoned with, but you can't stand up to him. He's still your boss. If he says do something, you do it, then discuss the wisdom of that course of action.

This concludes Office Politics 101. These sorts of destructive actions will happen again. We must be prepared. For more information on earthquakes, please visit the surrounding exhibits. *low hum*

Er1c · #27 09-22-2002, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Googi
I thought Alky and Nemesis both quit...

Nope... they both got fired for having opinions

Er1c · #28 09-22-2002, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chronos
Anyway, no reason to reply Konidias, this is directed to Stefan and Unixmad. Of course you'll defend your own job, it takes a lot of ass kissing to get where you are.

ZING!

ZanderX · #29 09-22-2002, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyhm
snip

I did the same thing last year.

Except that where you failed, I succeeded.

AlexH · #30 09-22-2002, 02:24 AM

I go to school in Scotland.
We don't get to do anything like that.

My school sucks.

Er1c · #31 09-22-2002, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
Why the staff think it's okay to insult the management and tell them they aren't doing a good job, and then expect the management not to fire them is beyond me.

You don't go to work and tell your boss that you don't like the way he is doing things and expect him to say "oh gee, thanks for telling me how to do my job! want a raise? *pat on the back*". He would fire you or you can quit, or you just live with it. That is the only option. If you don't like how things are being run, don't go arguing about it, just leave.

People think they are the only people in the world that can do their job. Unixmad could easily hire new people in a heartbeat. There are others that are qualified to fill the job.

See, I would agree with you if we were getting paid to do our jobs, but we aren't. We are here to help, and sometimes helping doesn't just mean doing what we are told. The best thing people like Nemesis and Alkaren could have done to help, and their jobs were to help, was to speak out and help unixmad understand what he was doing... they weren't getting paid to do a certain job, they were given privilages in order to help Graal.

AlexH · #32 09-22-2002, 02:34 AM

Speaking out about the problems etc is fine but it's how they put them down that isn't.
I don't know how any of them got their opinions across because Alks thread was deleted before I got to read it and I don't think Nemesis thread deserved to get him fired.

Milkdude99 · #33 09-22-2002, 02:51 AM

Ok cold hard facts :

1. The decision has already been made
2. It is Unixmad and Stefan's RIGHT to run Graal as they see fit
3. How you express an opinion makes all the difference in the world on how it will be percieved.
4. Accept what you cannot change
5.only time will tell if it was a wise decision or not but then again that responsiblity rest with Unixmad and Stefan , they are the ones who will benefit or suffer for their mistakes or triumphs.This "Game" supports them; it's their job and they have much at stake , you(the players) on the other hand just play it and it does not feed and house you as it does them.
6. They don't have to tell anyone anything , only what they want done.
7.Players and Staff alike do not need to know everything that is going on , just what is nessary for them to know.
8. Business is hard and cruel and plays no favorites
9. Friendship and business don't mix , only leads to bad business moves or being taken advantage of.
10. Work within what Unixmad wants or your fired (its strictly business)

If you want to be opininated and scream about things , then get a column in a newspaper .

Milkdude99 · #34 09-22-2002, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by AlexH
Speaking out about the problems etc is fine but it's how they put them down that isn't.
I don't know how any of them got their opinions across because Alks thread was deleted before I got to read it and I don't think Nemesis thread deserved to get him fired.

the thread didn't as you know there is always more to it, it was more like his arguing with Unixmad off the Game .

Chronos · #35 09-22-2002, 10:19 AM

Oh yes, they have every right to molest, improve, destroy, piss-and-burn-on the game they created. But theyr'e using it as a cash cow, and if the majority of the public is not happy, then that's less money they get. This is opinion and if not enforced, less players will keep upgrading. I certainly am not.

Remember, no matter what they want to do, the customer is always right. If they don't follow that, their business declines.

Googi · #36 09-22-2002, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Er1c
Nope... they both got fired for having opinions

I distincly remember Alkaren saying "I quit" and making a big "I quit" thread where he continually trashed Unix and Stefan.

Milkdude99 · #37 09-22-2002, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chronos
Oh yes, they have every right to molest, improve, destroy, piss-and-burn-on the game they created. But theyr'e using it as a cash cow, and if the majority of the public is not happy, then that's less money they get. This is opinion and if not enforced, less players will keep upgrading. I certainly am not.

Remember, no matter what they want to do, the customer is always right. If they don't follow that, their business declines.

I see you have never been in a Customer related Business , the customer is always right only to a point , nobody in Business does whatever the customer says is right or they would go bankrupt. You think customers won't abuse that ?or try to? if you do then you are fooling only yourself and need to stay out of business.

Tyhm · #38 09-22-2002, 03:49 PM

Yeah, you think the customers wanted Graal to go P2P? There was actually a riot (paradoxically on Classic) of people who insisted that they'd sooner see Graal go offline permanently than ever pay one thin dime for a game this bad.

I think roughly 10% upgraded anyway. Maybe 30% got involved in short-lived Rival efforts to actually destroy Graal. Most just left.

OH WOW! I DON'T MISS THEM!

unixmad · #39 09-22-2002, 04:36 PM

Yes i agree with that, that's why i am preparing with Konidias a Newsletter we will send to all Graalians (Gold and No gold)

Also we need to put more information's on the Web site.

Unix.

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I agree , There are others who do play the game who are well quailfied to help "manage" the Game . The only thing I would like to see , is better communication among not only Staff but Staff to players . Its good to post things here and I applaude those efforts to get things out , but it doesn't do any good for those players who play Classic Servers who do not have Gold accounts and there are many of such players and are many times left in the Dark as to what is going on. In an effort to improve this on Npulse I post important things from Unixmad in the Npulse Forums so they can get these important messages. But we are only one PW and many players don't get the info because they play other PWs and don't use our Forums.

Chronos · #40 09-22-2002, 09:21 PM

Makes no sense Tyhm, they're not customer when they don't pay :P

I mean now, being governed by a council of people who will most likely abuse their powers to players who paid for their game.

People quit and quit and quit, when I first started again Graal Classic had 120 players on heavy times, now we're around the 90's. G2k2 became popular fo ra while due to haunted house but more and more people are leaving that as well.

Sure, milkdude, you can take the stubborn side if you want, but just remember this is making people leave, and when you lose so many players, you can't properly fund the game anymore. Doing what they want is their business, but listening to the public is their best way to keeping the game alive.

Believe it or not, even my own staff are insisting that they're leaving the game if they have to listen to council members etc. And you can badmouth my staff if you want, but they're some of the best damn people on the game.

I've already seen the effect of poor management and lack of respect for the public...when will you? Sigh, someday...