Shaded Legends

[Devil_Lord2]

This thread will be used to keep you, the players,
updated about Shaded Legends. ^.^

We will try to show what is new without giving too much away.
We are constantly growing, and making our way towards classic.
(If you would like to apply, please check out our hiring link.)

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Anyways, check below for updates and
check my signature for the current staff list.
===================================
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[Pimmeh]

Again?

[ffcmike]

Similarly to as what was reported back in June, has this problem been fixed within the last 2 weeks?

Opposite (Fri Feb 03 23:15:43 2012):

in the middle of the intro the screen froze white, and i reconnected multiple times and had it work the fourth time.

I wouldn't expect such issues on a server which is visible on the server list.

[Emera]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Similarly to as what was reported back in June, has this problem been fixed within the last 2 weeks?



I wouldn't expect such issues on a server which is visible on the server list.

This. If it's not fully fixed, which it isn't from what I've seen while playing there, why is it hosted? Just scraping the hosted test isn't good enough. Get it fixed and then apply again.

[Loakey_P2P]

PWA , It's they're decision not a democracy .

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Loakey_P2P

PWA , It's their decision not a democracy .

If a server's own staff believe it's ok to have such a broken introduction while visible, what does this say about the rest of the server?
Or why should potential players have high hopes with future updates?

Even if the rest of the server was decent, that gives a very bad impression.

[Emera]

Originally Posted by Loakey_P2P

PWA , It's they're decision not a democracy .

Firstly, it's their, not they're.
Secondly, although it may be their decision, they should also take into account wether or not it's fit for the hosted tab. A lot of players have made comments on the standard of levels the server has for example. In my opinion, they should take it from hosted, get the server to a decent stage were there aren't any, or at least aren't a lot of bugs and then apply for the hosted tab again.

[Matman58]

Originally Posted by Emera

Firstly, it's their, not they're.
Secondly, although it may be their decision, they should also take into account wether or not it's fit for the hosted tab. A lot of players have made comments on the standard of levels the server has for example. In my opinion, they should take it from hosted, get the server to a decent stage were there aren't any, or at least aren't a lot of bugs and then apply for the hosted tab again.

I would have to agree with this statement. Servers should be well polished when going onto the hosted tab as this is the face of graal. People logging in and immediately seeing a server they havent seen on the list before usually draws attention. When people login though and start encountering bugs and issues, this causes a negative feeling for the player and could immediately hurt that servers reputation as well as discourage a player from ever returning. In the case of a new player to PC Graal comming on and they choose that server first out of others it could also discourage them from ever playing PC Graal as whole again. Without being polished enough it typically will never have a positive result to the playerbase.

[DustyPorViva]

Hosted status is not meant to represent some prime or polished server. It's meant to promote the server that has shown potential to help get them the staff they'll need to move forward.

However yes, they should be somewhat playable to a degree.

[Matman58]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Hosted status is not meant to represent some prime or polished server. It's meant to promote the server that has shown potential to help get them the staff they'll need to move forward.

However yes, they should be somewhat playable to a degree.

All I am saying is it should be polished enough where you arent freezing up in the intro part of the server. You also should have enough content ready so players that login have something to do other than AFK.

[Emera]

Originally Posted by Matman58

All I am saying is it should be polished enough where you arent freezing up in the intro part of the server. You also should have enough content ready so players that login have something to do other than AFK.

This. It's rigged with bugs and things that just don't work as they should.

[Devil_Lord2]

Wow, quite a lot of debates going on here.
Anyway, the server is looking much better, GMAP is almost fixed, and the conversion from GS1 to GS2 is going well.

The news looks better also..

Keep arguing, or come check it out!
Or come check it out and then argue.. The more players the better. ;]


I must warn you though, we are redoing the intro.. Other things are top priority however..

[DustyPorViva]

If the intro is mandatory to experience the server and it has this many issues, then it should be top priority.

[Devil_Lord2]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Similarly to as what was reported back in June, has this problem been fixed within the last 2 weeks?



I wouldn't expect such issues on a server which is visible on the server list.

Honestly that has never happened to me... however I can't say I'm fond of the intro even if it didn't seem broken which the GS1 has done to it.

The story line should be changed, more scripts and/or ganis added, graphics for the broken houses.. I want there to be a tutorial to teach others to play as well.

It will be fixed, possibly not the way I would like it, but it will be fixed. :]
By the way, how have you been?!

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If the intro is mandatory to experience the server and it has this many issues, then it should be top priority.

Yeah well... they are on their own agenda..
I took a video of the intro and told them what needs to be fixed.
May even do it my self if I have the time..

I'd also like to add in a special feature I was working on that I cannot announce as of this time.. but I think it would be pretty neat..

I do have a question for you if you know a lot about using url sounds, if that is alright.

Being only an FAQ, I can't say I have too much influence, nor power, let alone right to fix anything. Not without asking anyway..

[DustyPorViva]

Honestly if it's that buggy then just remove it for now until it's fixed.

[Crono]

does it really matter what makes it to hosted or not?

SL has been desperately trying to "make it" and it never does. everytime it gets released it dies off again in playercount then disappears from the serverlist. good luck anyway to the current staff though.

[Devil_Lord2]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Honestly if it's that buggy then just remove it for now until it's fixed.

Haha, that is a great idea, I will suggest that. :]

[Loakey_P2P]

Originally Posted by Emera

This. It's rigged with bugs and things that just don't work as they should.

you mean riddled with bugs .


p.s i went through the intro with no problems of freezing or anything . maybe its not the server .

[Emera]

Originally Posted by Loakey_P2P

you mean riddled with bugs .

I mean what I say. I said rigged.

[Devil_Lord2]

I don't know about them rigging it to be buggy lol.. but I can say ZeroG and I are going to be in charge of the intro. I personally don't have that much time, but I'd say it should be completed in a few weeks.

[Devil_Lord2]

I estimate ZeroG and I should have the intro done in a month or so..
I'm adding new levels, tutorial, and some quests for the intro, and he is doing his own thing.

We both have other things besides just Graal, but I'm trying to work on it when I can.
I can promise it will be amazing, and if not by you all, at least I will be amazed. :]

On a further note, the events are being worked on as well, and old quests, by samich and Loakey, respectively. I'm not quite sure who else is doing what though..

[Bell]

None of the PWA members, to my knowledge, experienced any freezeups in the intro during our inspections. We are aware of others having them though. History has shown us that no server reacts the same to every individual. These reactions are actually a good reason in themselves for hosted status. Personally I feel they should give the intro priority or disable it until its fixed. Its now a known issue and if it gives a poor initial opinion of a server it will most likely ruin that servers reputation for eternity to players victimized by it.

Keep in mind that those making these servers are not full time employees of [insert popular video game company here] who spend hours debugging their games offline to ensure smooth gameplay when they go public. These are hobbyists who do this because they enjoy the challenge. Graal is unique in that it offers players the opportunity to build a server that is then critiqued by their peers. Those staff members with enough maturity to handle those critisicms will take the input given to them by the players and improve the quality of their server. Just as Crow did with Atlantis, players should be able to report their bugs here then the staff can address them.

Under PWA guidelines for hosted, these servers will be subject to periodic reviews to ensure that they are not only progressing but that bug issues are being taken care of. There is no set schedule for these reviews but we are watching progress. Other developers are their worst critics of course which is not a bad thing. The predators though should just remember that one day it will be their turn to be the prey and I expect them to handle those critisicms with maturity as well.

[MattKan]

Originally Posted by Devil_Lord2

Haha, that is a great idea, I will suggest that. :]

Cuz doing so wouldn't get you fired...

[Devil_Lord2]

I'm not sure what they are doing with it, and I so badly want to show what I've done so far... but it isn't finished, nor is it my decision if it is released or not...

So really all I can do is say, while keeping it slightly secret, it will be good, if not great.
You can take this with salt, but I also feel it may show up the server, and I hope they improve everything else like, if not better than the intro...

I'm going to have to also state Classic is the only thing that it can be compared to, yet classic's intro is probably much better lol.. cut-scene wise. It was amazing if I remember correctly..

[MattKan]

Originally Posted by Devil_Lord2

I'm not sure what they are doing with it, and I so badly want to show what I've done so far... but it isn't finished, nor is it my decision if it is released or not...

So really all I can do is say, while keeping it slightly secret, it will be good, if not great.
You can take this with salt, but I also feel it may show up the server, and I hope they improve everything else like, if not better than the intro...

I'm going to have to also state Classic is the only thing that it can be compared to, yet classic's intro is probably much better lol.. cut-scene wise. It was amazing if I remember correctly..

Classic, without a doubt, uses a specially scripted scene system allowing for stuff like this to be executed easily. For some reason I doubt Shaded Legend does the same.

[Devil_Lord2]

Eh... true, I don't use any systems nor do I use the scene gani, I create my own scenes via programming the NPCs...

I feel I have a lot more control over everything, and can do it all online.
It may take longer but oh well..

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Devil_Lord2

Eh... true, I don't use any systems nor do I use the scene gani, I create my own scenes via programming the NPCs...

I feel I have a lot more control over everything, and can do it all online.
It may take longer but oh well..

Classic's cutscenes were scripted with the idea of both being able to create new scenes and be able to go back and fix problems or add improvements to old ones with relative ease. Every single aspect of cutscenes are a system, from the character NPC actions, screen fading, skip buttons, hiding the player and interface and then re-initializing the player in such a way that doesn't cause any bugs.

It doesn't make sense to script every single cutscene level independently from eachother or the rest of the server. Not only is it time inefficient to keep re-inventing the wheel with each level, if some type of problem were to emerge later on you'd find yourself having to go back and edit each cutscene level one by one.
As an example, due to the way Classic's cutscenes are made, it was fairly easy for me to make it so that if the "Join Event" button were to appear while you were within a scene, and you were to click it, it would warp you into the relevant event level, and then communicate with the scene system to safely remove any affects the scene has placed on you.

As far as what takes longer goes, I'd say the systematic way takes longer at first, but then saves you a lot more time in future.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

-Smart, but long speech-like statement.-

This is why I do not like the idea of Movie Ganis, they can be done more efficiently through merely scripting versus using the movie gani system.
More power to ya for making your cutscenes smart to the other systems too mike.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

This is why I do not like the idea of Movie Ganis, they can be done more efficiently through merely scripting versus using the movie gani system.
More power to ya for making your cutscenes smart to the other systems too mike.

There's a lot more ways you can manipulate a scripted NPC compared to a movie gani character, such as being able to set focus on a character. If I wanted I could even have it so that the player isn't actually hidden within a scene and can walk around to interact with NPCs, even delaying their actions until a player has done a certain thing, such as slashing one of the characters.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

There's a lot more ways you can manipulate a scripted NPC compared to a movie gani character, such as being able to set focus on a character. If I wanted I could even have it so that the player isn't actually hidden within a scene and can walk around to interact with NPCs, even delaying their actions until a player has done a certain thing, such as slashing one of the characters.

Yep. You have much more power and control through scripting it out.

[Devil_Lord2]

Oh wow, that is way too technical for me.. sometimes it takes me hours just trying to figure out something if I come up to a difficult math problem that I'm not too sure what to do with..

However, luckily for me, it is only the intro an I don't think anyone will be going to any events... "However, now that you mention it, I probably do need to look into that depending on what client.intro # one is on."

Anything past the intro I'm not too worried about, but I will admit Classic is all around better lol, some of the things I've seen, I've never dreamed of seeing happen.. Moving smoothly against a cliff it self was mind-blowing..

Personally, I can't even wrap an idea of what the system is or does exactly, but I don't mind scripting it out. ^.^;

But I do think a lot of people, those with an open mind, will like the intro very much.

[MattKan]

I do have an open mind and I don't like the intro, having just tested it out.

First off, the brick walls look like made them using a blindfold - even when it's perfectly possible using pics1.png.

Second of all, there are some tile errors around the place outside. (Except David K insisted that they weren't tile errors even though they clearly were.)

Third of all, the character's need to go back to second grade English. Things like "thanks father" or "my fathers'" or "that costed" riddle all of the NPC chat.

Fourth of all, a major issue is the way that only parts of certain furniture (i.e. table) are images therefore your nickname looks like someone sawed out part of the middle. It's not consistent at all and just looks dinky. (This is fine, apparently. My suggestion to fix this was ignored.)

Fifth of all, I got stuck on the staircase and froze. Then I reconnected and had to start all over. This happened twice.

Last and most importantly, the quest is rather bland. The player comes down from their bedroom into their father's room to be told that his glove is missing. The player then goes outside, goes through one outdoor level, and then goes through bushes to get the level 2 glove. They then bring it back to their dad who tells them to take it. (???) Finally, the player gets another splendid view of the tile errors as they pick up rocks and enter a cave. This was as far as it was developed as I played.

If Shaded Legend wants to go anywhere, it needs two major things:

Quality. There's very little quality in the tileset, levels, events, graphics, etc. They still get rave reviews because none of the Shaded Legend players who log in seem to care about quality. This will change once players used to the great quality of quests from, say, Classic start playing.

Staff who realize that they aren't perfect in everything they do. I get the general gist form all of the staff that everything is PERFECT and therefore my feedback is invalid.

[NicoX]

Originally Posted by MattKan

I do have an open mind and I don't like the intro, having just tested it out.

First off, the brick walls look like made them using a blindfold - even when it's perfectly possible using pics1.png.

Second of all, there are some tile errors around the place outside. (Except David K insisted that they weren't tile errors even though they clearly were.)

Third of all, the character's need to go back to second grade English. Things like "thanks father" or "my fathers'" or "that costed" riddle all of the NPC chat.

Fourth of all, a major issue is the way that only parts of certain furniture (i.e. table) are images therefore your nickname looks like someone sawed out part of the middle. It's not consistent at all and just looks dinky. (This is fine, apparently. My suggestion to fix this was ignored.)

Fifth of all, I got stuck on the staircase and froze. Then I reconnected and had to start all over. This happened twice.

Last and most importantly, the quest is rather bland. The player comes down from their bedroom into their father's room to be told that his glove is missing. The player then goes outside, goes through one outdoor level, and then goes through bushes to get the level 2 glove. They then bring it back to their dad who tells them to take it. (???) Finally, the player gets another splendid view of the tile errors as they pick up rocks and enter a cave. This was as far as it was developed as I played.

If Shaded Legend wants to go anywhere, it needs two major things:

Quality. There's very little quality in the tileset, levels, events, graphics, etc. They still get rave reviews because none of the Shaded Legend players who log in seem to care about quality. This will change once players used to the great quality of quests from, say, Classic start playing.

Staff who realize that they aren't perfect in everything they do. I get the general gist form all of the staff that everything is PERFECT and therefore my feedback is invalid.

Thanks for your critism and report. We will fix it as soon as possible.

[Devil_Lord2]

Once again, the intro is coming along great!
Slowly but surely!

Something like this might take me about 7 hours to finally fix and debug.

As you can see, or not see, there are a few fixes that could happen,
such as the corners are gone, which I've fixed once.. guess I have to do it again.


http://youtu.be/AEYjC5_B2FQ

Once again, I don't have that much time in a day to work on it, so I estimate by the end of this month the intro should be completed alpha phase.

I then have to find people to go in, test for bugs and try to screw things up.

[Galdor]

Thats flashy and all but would really kill the mood of any cave :P
Maybe make something similar to this instead:

[DustyPorViva]

I like the effect in Minish Cap when you use the Mole Mitts much better. It's hard to link a video to that specific effect however.

Kudos on pulling off the effect, however.

[Devil_Lord2]

Originally Posted by Galdor

Thats flashy and all but would really kill the mood of any cave :P
Maybe make something similar to this instead:

That does look good, and in a huge cage I would definitely think about that, thank you!

The idea for this is, you can still see the roof above you, which is different for everyone "I think" since the invisible tiles are selected at random onCreated..

I would love to have a lantern for it also, which I thought about doing on the walls... but the level is so small and not very 'deep'..

The player is basically going in and finding the sword, not very quest like, since you need the gloves your father gives you to pick up the rock to find the "gift". The player has not actually learned how to play, and use weapons yet, excluding picking up bushes, rocks, and talking so far. (They learn to slash in here.)

If you don't mind, I'd love to keep that idea for future reference, and I'm going to ask ZeroG what he thinks of it, and if I should switch what I've done with that. Much appreciated!

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I like the effect in Minish Cap when you use the Mole Mitts much better. It's hard to link a video to that specific effect however.

Kudos on pulling off the effect, however.

Thank you, I must thank ZeroG for being somewhat a teacher to myself in the past, and my long long long time studying how the old hammer script worked, that Callimuc gave me.

But I'd love it if you could explain the Minish Cap and Mole Mitts? Is this in another game or something I could see?

-edit-
I've googled it and learned that it is a cave, on I guess one of the Zelda games..
I have never really played any Zelda games, and the first that I have played, on the wii, I quit after finding the horse 10 minutes of starting.

Can you explain what the effect is possibly? :x
It might be interesting to look into!

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Devil_Lord2

But I'd love it if you could explain the Minish Cap and Mole Mitts? Is this in another game or something I could see?

-edit-
I've googled it and learned that it is a cave, on I guess one of the Zelda games..
I have never really played any Zelda games, and the first that I have played, on the wii, I quit after finding the horse 10 minutes of starting.

Can you explain what the effect is possibly? :x
It might be interesting to look into!

It's pretty similar to what you're doing here. Mole-mitt caves in Minish Cap actually fit into the world in the same way your caves do. When you enter them, instead of loading a new level what it does is fade the visibility of the exterior world(overworld) out and instead only renders the interior of the cave.

You can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...kU7Ttew#t=222s

[Devil_Lord2]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

It's pretty similar to what you're doing here. Mole-mitt caves in Minish Cap actually fit into the world in the same way your caves do. When you enter them, instead of loading a new level what it does is fade the visibility of the exterior world(overworld) out and instead only renders the interior of the cave.

You can see it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...kU7Ttew#t=222s

Oh my g, yes, I honestly did want to do this (and I still might), but the only problem is that the cave entrance I made at the start isn't far enough down, and I don't really know how to use a gmap.

I was thinking, sometime in the future, I could take the letters from the text document for the level, move them down several lines, and move the rest of the bottom level into a blank level.. If that is at all understandable..

But for now two levels will have to do.. I also wanted to try to setfocus so they looked like they were the same level, but I don't think I could achieve the same effect due to the same problem lol..

I do hope to fix it up to be in the same level eventually! (As well as learning how to make a gmap when I need to.)

The idea of digging inside of a mountain sounds pretty interesting also!
Perhaps something like iClassics random miners standing around outside doing nothing, the player could dig through the mountain to another area..
Great idea, no clue if it would ever be done or have an area to get to made.


Eventually I hope to fix it to be in the same level.

[Devil_Lord2]

I basically took up the whole day to fix this, and then had to redo a few things... So, I put it into one level which caused other problematic options.
I had to fix them too as well and fix all the X and Y's.

So far this is my best solution and I'm quite proud of it. :]
(Without giving too much away)

I would still like to work on the inside view though.. I'll try to make it smoother eventually.

So far the new addition to the intro is almost finished leading up to the old intro which many levels will be redone, renovated, or trashed. Either way I think many people will be satisfied.

====

By the way, we are interested in hiring LATs and having a contest which is not open to people of the forums. However, if you would like to apply the official way let me know.

I sincerely believe Shaded Legends will be Classic once again.
Loakey and I are working diligently to make this happen.