The problem with ignoring "unintentional" laggers.

Rufus · #1 04-16-2010, 08:44 PM

People abuse lag to win activities such as events and sparring are no better than those who use trainers. It is an unfair advantage, and both the players and staff are sick of it. For most people I personally believe it is controlled, and the only measure that is in place is, "If they can't be hit, they can't take part!" which doesn't do much. Most people can get at least 1 hit on someone who is lagging, but that doesn't mean they should be allowed to play. Laggers are taking liberties, and with no incentives to stop lagging to win, why would anyone even bother to not lag?

I usually download overnight, but the over the last three days I decided that when I wanted to download something, I'd continue to play Graal and see how I fair up. With my torrented lag I could easily target certain individuals in events and had no problem winning a lot of the time. I've played Castle Wars with torrents on before too, and when you're constantly warping around the place you can easily take it over.

Yes there are people who have problems with lag out of their control, but to put it bluntly, that is their problem. PrayDoh has a bad connection and he hasn't just sat and made it awkward for everyone else; he has made every effort to fix the issue, but I don't see the same for anyone else that lags. The other players shouldn't be placed in the position they are because of it and even if you can't control your lag, it doesn't remove that it is unfair to everyone else. If they're over a certain ping, they should not be allowed to participate in the competitive aspects of the server, simple as that.

Luda · #2 04-16-2010, 08:58 PM

Agreed!

salesman · #3 04-16-2010, 09:01 PM

I agree. This was a bit of a problem on Era, too. An unfair advantage is an unfair advantage. I'd be willing to bet that if UN required a certain ping to join events, most of the people with "unintentional lag" would suddenly have amazing connections.

MysticX2X · #4 04-16-2010, 09:11 PM

I agree. Normally I don't mind people lagging just a tiny bit (even though it sucks), but lately there has been one player who has been taking advantage of their ridiculous ping rate.

I'd like it if laggers could be detected serverside somehow or if they can be altogether excluded from events/sparring if their average ping is above a high mark.

Crono · #5 04-16-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

If they're over a certain ping, they should not be allowed to participate in the competitive aspects of the server, simple as that.

Agreed.

DustyPorViva · #6 04-16-2010, 09:21 PM

I was told UN used to have ping detection but it was removed because it was so strict, it was kicking people from spars just because of a lag spike. However that is easily remedied by gaining an average of some sort instead of sudden.

However, what would you guys consider the 'cut-off' for a ping? Again, take into consideration that it'd be based off of an average. I can't say I've really seen normal players with over 400ms ping participating in anything. I pretty much have between 50-350ms, even with my horrible internet. 300 was also my average when I played on dial-up, so I don't think it'd be cutting people off unfairly... but then again I don't spar much so I'm not sure how bad 300ms would be in sparring/events.

joel34 · #7 04-16-2010, 09:45 PM

+1 on that.

tempandrew · #8 04-16-2010, 10:16 PM

To a point, this all makes sense, but in all fairness you have to stop and think of the types of lag. What's to say what's not an unfair advantage, honestly? Obviously the REALLY high amounts of lag are automatically included, but let's take into account the people who have like 200MS ping, but also have UDP checked. It doesn't seem like it, but that is MASSIVE lag to the point where it's so hard to hit the person unless you actively attempt to hit where the person is going to be, and that can cause you to mess up in things.

CTF is one situation where it's just unbearable. You have 150-200MS people who are also skippy and have UDP checked, you could sit at the flag slashing directly at it and they'll still walk by and grab it, maybe getting hit, but their lag is so bad that they grab it anyway.

Unless you can really decide on an absolutely fair way of detecting how much lag, and how to pick-up on all types of lag, then this seems absolutely unfair unless you're specifically targeting people who are at a ridiculous level.

Chakrah · #9 04-16-2010, 11:13 PM

Rufus, I understand where you're coming from completely. I used to hate players who lagged, and even having lag. Ever since about two months ago when I moved, I've discovered that satellite internet is not good at all, also with that said, satellite is the only type of internet I can get where I live.

I've been playing Graal for a long time, without lag. Ever since I've gotten this internet it has changed my gameplay totally. I'm a longtime Graal player and paying customer.

It really would not be that fair to everyone who has spent money just to be blacklisted and kick from events, spars, etc;
That would almost be like buying a game, and then not being able to save.

WaDaFack · #10 04-16-2010, 11:23 PM

I disagree.
How would it feel if you had a 56k connection and not be able to participate in ANYTHING?
I mean, wtf would be the point of even playing if you don't get the chance to spar, play events, etc.?

Elizabeth · #11 04-16-2010, 11:29 PM

I agree, it gets ridiculous when it disrupts events. It's very unfair to other players.

salesman · #12 04-16-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

I disagree.
How would it feel if you had a 56k connection and not be able to participate in ANYTHING?
I mean, wtf would be the point of even playing if you don't get the chance to spar, play events, etc.?

The fairness goes both ways...laggy people ruin the fun for other paying customers. How would you feel if a player with a 56k connection won an event you were in solely because of their 56k connection?

Besides, if you're still using dial up, maybe you should invest your money in other places besides Graal.

Chakrah · #13 04-16-2010, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salesman

The fairness goes both ways...laggy people ruin the fun for other paying customers. How would you feel if a player with a 56k connection won an event you were in solely because of their 56k connection?

Besides, if you're still using dial up, maybe you should invest your money in other places besides Graal.

For some people, that may be the only internet that they can get.

Rufus · #14 04-16-2010, 11:56 PM

I have just taken the average MS of the 50 players online, and even with Chakrah's 455ms the average ping was just 80ms. 300ms (3x the average) is too much, I've never seen anyone with an average ping of 300, and that's where I believe it should stop people from competing.

Serverside and client lag wouldn't be effected by something like this, but all other "types" of lag (aka your connection) should be. People may lag in different ways from skipping a little to completely spiking around, but if their ping is high the effect is the same.

cbk1994 · #15 04-16-2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chakrah

For some people, that may be the only internet that they can get.

This. There are people forced to use dialup or satellite internet because of their location (satellite is preferable because of speeds, but both have very high latency).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

I have just taken the average MS of the 50 players online, and even with Chakrah's 455ms the average ping was just 80ms. 300ms (3x the average) is too much, I've never seen anyone with an average ping of 300, and that's where I believe it should stop people from competing.

Not sure how accurate that is. The average ping right now on Era is 120 MS. It's usually slightly lower, but anything under 200 or so should be fine. A fifth of a second is hardly crippling.