18+ Forum

[excaliber7388]

Title describes it pretty well. A lounge like atmosphere, with relaxed rules, targeted at the users who are 18 or older.
Yes, I know you can't be sure of a person's age online. However, the age they have in the forums, combined with the fact that they want to sign up, should be good enough. People normally don't stretch their age too much online anyway, and if they feel as though they want to talk about more mature topics, let them. Also, if they sign up for it, claiming they are 18+, then Graalonline has no liability if they see something they 'shouldn't' have. Of course, if they're online, chances are, they've seen things 1000 times worse online, and wouldn't have a problem with it. If they are the kind of person who does not like reading about more mature topics, hen they wouldn't have signed up for membership in that forum!

This forum would need a clear, separate set of rules, to make sure it doesn't lose it's value as an 18+ forum. It would also ensure that people wouldn't have their access removed forever. It would be the same as the normal forums. They would have a time that they are 'banned for, and at the end of that time, they get their access back. The lounge currently is not ran this way, which is highly unethical.

Anyway, what do you think?

[Skyld]

What on earth would you do with an 18+ forum; discuss pornography? It is a bad idea. :/

[excaliber7388]

I wouldn't discuss "smoking" in the lounge if this was in place, or the elections, etc.
We could have discussions of politics, world issues, news, war, voting, tobacco, college life, alcohol, and other things that people under 18 wouldn't be interested in.
Things that normally start a good debate are closed in the main forums, but they wouldn't be here.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

I wouldn't discuss "smoking" in the lounge if this was in place, or the elections, etc.
We could have discussions of politics, world issues, news, war, voting, tobacco, alcohol, and other things that people under 18 wouldn't be interested in.

I am under 18 and I am perfectly happy to discuss these subjects. The Lounge can be used to discuss these subjects already.

[excaliber7388]

No, it can't.
Because they're not allowed, and the lounge has no real clear set rules.
It has the same rules as the main forum, but you can post links. Also, it has nothing regarding loss of access. Almost all of the things I said would be closed in the main forum or in the lounge. Plus, the creation of this would insure that the main forums stays a friendly place. The utopia Unix wanted for these forums would exist if he put a place for all the bad things for people who are 18+

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

No, it can't.
Because they're not allowed, and the lounge has no real clear set rules.
It has the same rules as the main forum, but you can post links. Also, it has nothing regarding loss of access. Almost all of the things I said would be closed in the main forum or in the lounge. Plus, the creation of this would insure that the main forums stays a friendly place. The utopia Unix wanted for these forums would exist if he put a place for all the bad things for people who are 18+

I think the problem here is that my idea of 'discussion' is different to yours. I should imagine that if everyone participating in the discusison was sensible, then there would be no problem. The problem is that most of the forum users are not sensible in such discussions. Cyberjoueurs should not be obliged to cater for problematic users.

[Sam]

Hmm, I am not sure why you need such a +18 forum here.
1. You dont have access to the lounge, so why do you think you get access to a +18 forum?
2. We've tried to let people discuss mature topics in the lounge, but it didn't work in most issues,
3. Why you need such a forum here, you can use the other forum created by some people of this community.

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by Sam

Hmm, I am not sure why you need such a +18 forum here.
1. You dont have access to the lounge, so why do you think you get access to a +18 forum?
2. We've tried to let people discuss mature topics in the lounge, but it didn't work in most issues,
3. Why you need such a forum here, you can use the other forum created by some people of this community.

just a point. I have asked you if I can post something in the lounge and it derails the thread so that you close it and say we aren't mature enough when I don't even think it has gotten to a bad spot yet.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by pooper200000

stuff

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

stuff

Why talk about historic threads? Tell me why we need another forum to talk about mature topics, if its not possible for users to talk here in a mature way?
And Excaliber, if I read the other forum and see who is talking immature I see they are almost all +18.

[pooper200000]

Originally Posted by Sam

Why talk about historic threads? Tell me why we need another forum to talk about mature topics, if its not possible for users to talk here in a mature way?
And Excaliber, if I read the other forum and see who is talking immature I see they are almost all +18.

I never said we did. we don't. the mods are very relaxed in teh loune

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Sam

3. Why you need such a forum here, you can use the other forum created by some people of this community.

Wow so you guys don't care if we post there anymore?

[excaliber7388]

I could not start a normal discussion of how to get over a hangover in the lounge.
Even if everybody was sympathetic, and giving good advice, it would simply be deleted.

Besides, as opposed to banning certain topics, how about doing some deleting of the offending posts, as opposed to the entire thread?

This would allow for the players who want to discuss more to be happy, as well as the people who want the forums to stay child friendly, as no one would try to discuss these topics in the forum's current state.

I don't have access to the lounge, because moderators can choose to ban anyone they want. I was banned for questioning the moderators judgment, and was told I could get it back later. After I reapplied, I was told I was harassing them, and would soon be banned.
If there were clear rules defining moderator actions, that kind of crap (for the lack of a child friendly word) could not happen.

As for the ugcc, it's full of people who act like immature little kids, okay? i feel as though a forum only for 18+ users could be more mature, and handle the responsibility of slacked rules better.

I guess the better question is...why not?

[Darlene159]

No, we do not need a forum to discuss adult material on a kids game!!!
This game is NOT for adults only, and this game is mainly what these forums are for. Ugh, I get so tired of explaining this over and over to the same people/person!!

Also, no one said when access was removed from the lounge, it could not be reversed, it can at our discresion, if the person shows they can be mature enough......eventually.

This thread is only an excuse to stir up trouble.....again :/
This will not happen.

Originally Posted by Sam

And Excaliber, if I read the other forum and see who is talking immature I see they are almost all +18.

Exactly....

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

No, we do not need a forum to discuss adult material on a kids game!!!

ITS NOT A KIDS GAME

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Gambet

I think Graal should stop the whole geared towards young children propaganda. It's the older teens/adults with the money, and it's the older teens/adults that will keep the game alive, not the young children. Graal is simply hurting itself by continuing to follow this senseless issue.

The only way this would work out is if Graal kept the older members entertained and willing to continue playing and upgrading their accounts and so forth.

Now, don't take my above comment as me being for this idea, since I don't agree with this 18+ forum idea at all.

You might be right, however this has nothing to do with this thread I guess. We still should not have an 18+ forums. So not needed at all.

Originally Posted by Gerami

ITS NOT A KIDS GAME

Ok, ok. I don't totally disagree with you, but the game is still for 13+, not a totally adult game. Fair enough? There is absolutely no reason at all to have a forum set up here only for adults.

Excaliber, please stop making threads in order to vent your dislike for the rules, that is all this is. Unixmad does not like the rules discussed, yet you keep inventing ways in which to do it anyway, and you have no way of knowing what kind of profit they are making from Graal, so stop making assumptions.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Ok, ok. I don't totally disagree with you, but the game is still for 13+, not a totally adult game. Fair enough?

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Sam

Do me a favor Excaliber, read your replies especially to Darlene, and tell me if you think, they are abrasive or nice.

You guys (not you as much Sam ) have been rough and thickheaded with me, why should I be any different with you?

This is something I dont get in my head: why people cannot try to talk with respect to each other. Sometimes it happens to be a little abrasive, okay, but it seems to me that people do it very often here. Irl they would never talk to somebody else in this way, I am sure.

It's the internet Unfortunately, it is a different place.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

You might be right, however this has nothing to do with this thread I guess. We still should not have an 18+ forums. So not needed at all.

A ngrt isn't needed either, but it helps a lot

Ok, ok. I don't totally disagree with you, but the game is still for 13+, not a totally adult game. Fair enough? There is absolutely no reason at all to have a forum set up here only for adults.

It would appeal to the older players, and make the game seem both child friendly, and for more mature users.

Excaliber, please stop making threads in order to vent your dislike for the rules, that is all this is. Unixmad does not like the rules discussed, yet you keep inventing ways in which to do it anyway, and you have no way of knowing what kind of profit they are making from Graal, so stop making assumptions.

I assume, from the fact that he was asking for suggestions, that it could be better.
As a business major (and a person with some good business sense) I see the advantage of having a large target market. If you can focus at one group at a time, with features for everyone along the spectrum, you can turn over good a good profit.

[Gambet]

Age does not determine ones level of maturity.


This is something that everyone needs to realize, including the administration.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Age does not determine ones level of maturity.


This is something that everyone needs to realize, including the administration.

I am sure everyone knows this. Example, my 13 year old is more mature than a lot of adults I know. Doesn't make her an adult, however.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Sam

Why talk about historic threads? Tell me why we need another forum to talk about mature topics, if its not possible for users to talk here in a mature way?
And Excaliber, if I read the other forum and see who is talking immature I see they are almost all +18.

Because history repeats itself?
We need another forum, because it would cause people to complain less (happy!) and would keep the normal forums clean. It would actually make your job easier.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

No, we do not need a forum to discuss adult material on a kids game!!!

You define yourself as a kid?
Children would not be allowed to access it, this would only be for the older and more mature users.

This game is NOT for adults only,

No, but there are some, enough that if you cater to them, you can imprive your game, and increase the depth of your targeted market

and this game is mainly what these forums are for.

But there is a ngrt, and it alone is just as (or more) active than the other forums.

Ugh, I get so tired of explaining this over and over to the same people/person!!

Me too!
If only you'd listen to simple reason and business sense.

Also, no one said when access was removed from the lounge, it could not be reversed, it can at our discresion, if the person shows they can be mature enough......eventually.

Lol, never.
You'll never restore access to me, simply because of our history, and your outward dislike of me. Let's face it, you don't like me, and so my access will never return. THIS is why clear cut rules are needed.

This thread is only an excuse to stir up trouble.....again :/

No, it was made to change and repair graal. To offer Unix a way to continue to make money, (or start), appeal to a larger market, and keep the forums clean.

This will not happen.

Well, you haven't istened to common sense yet!

Exactly....

You're acting pretty immature for a 41 year old

Btw, just so you know, most people consider me a nice guy (too nice in fact), and very mature and helpful for my age.
Just an example, I got a community service scholarship for one of the schools I was looking at. It was all voluntary work, all of it.
I also help my friends with their homework, or to stand up straight when they (not me) have had too much to drink.
I participate in the political process, and make educated decisions.
Normally that shows some maturity and responsibility, but of course, you're too blindsided at the moment to notice these things about me. Instead you assume I'm causing trouble instead of trying to help out.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Lol, never.
You'll never restore access to me, simply because of our history, and your outward dislike of me. Let's face it, you don't like me, and so my access will never return. THIS is why clear cut rules are needed.

Need I remind you of The Lounge description?

"This forum is a private forum. Having agreed to the conditions of this forum, your access to this can be revoked at the discretion of the moderators."

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Btw, just so you know, most people consider me a nice guy (too nice in fact), and very mature and helpful for my age.
Just an example, I got a community service scholarship for one of the schools I was looking at. It was all voluntary work, all of it.
I also help my friends with their homework, or to stand up straight when they (not me) have had too much to drink.
I participate in the political process, and make educated decisions.
Normally that shows some maturity and responsibility, but of course, you're too blindsided at the moment to notice these things about me. Instead you assume I'm causing trouble instead of trying to help out.

It doesn't really matter to us what good you do outside of the forums, because that is not the basis for the moderation's judgement on your behaviour inside the forums.

So, why not do us all a favour and stop causing so much trouble inside the forums?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

You define yourself as a kid?

No, but I am adult enough to understand that Graal is geared towards a much younger userbase, and I accept the rules accordingly.

No, but there are some, enough that if you cater to them, you can imprive your game, and increase the depth of your targeted market

The lounge has already proven there are not enough members that fit what you want either by age or by maturity.

Lol, never.
You'll never restore access to me, simply because of our history, and your outward dislike of me. Let's face it, you don't like me, and so my access will never return. THIS is why clear cut rules are needed.

As I have said before, my like or dislike for a person has nothing to do with my job. I base what I do on the rules, and when someone constantly causes trouble, they tend to stay in trouble. Pretty simple.

No, it was made to change and repair graal. To offer Unix a way to continue to make money, (or start), appeal to a larger market, and keep the forums clean.

You act like the majority of Graal members are adults. Not true.

Normally that shows some maturity and responsibility, but of course, you're too blindsided at the moment to notice these things about me. Instead you assume I'm causing trouble instead of trying to help out.

I tend to, as an adult, accept rules that the forum owner has placed, and accept that he had good reasons for placing them, afterall they are not my forums. These are not the only forums I am signed up for, and I dont always agree with the rules in place, but I can accept them because they belong to someone else. If I cannot accept the rules, then I simply do not post on those forums. Really, it is that simple.

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

It's not professional nor is it relevant for an online game...

That pretty much sums it all up right there.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

No, but I am adult enough to understand that Graal is geared towards a much younger userbase, and I accept the rules accordingly.

But why not appeal to a larger market?
Also, its been proven that it's mostly older (above 18) people frequenting these forums.

The lounge has already proven there are not enough members that fit what you want either by age or by maturity.

By you're great standard

As I have said before, my like or dislike for a person has nothing to do with my job.

Oh, so you're a robot?
It was according to the rules that I never got a PM warning, or at least told that I was breaking a non existant rule?

I base what I do on the rules,

That you helped make.
I've noticed the rules leave a lot to the moderator. Lets face it, the rules give you a lot of power

and when someone constantly causes trouble

Hey, what I say wouldn't cause any trouble if you treated my oppinion as that of an educated customer

, they tend to stay in trouble. Pretty simple.

They don't like the rules, or at least how they're enforced, see a better way, and because of this, get biased results.

You act like the majority of Graal members are adults. Not true.

Just the majority of people here

I tend to, as an adult, accept rules that the forum owner has placed, and accept that he had good reasons for placing them, afterall they are not my forums. These are not the only forums I am signed up for, and I dont always agree with the rules in place, but I can accept them because they belong to someone else. If I cannot accept the rules, then I simply do not post on those forums. Really, it is that simple.

That pretty much sums it all up right there.

He's obviously doing something wrong, he should be turning over a good profit from graal, but it seems as though he isn't. Maybe he.....doing it wrong?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Btw, just so you know, most people consider me a nice guy (too nice in fact), and very mature and helpful for my age.

Do me a favor Excaliber, read your replies especially to Darlene, and tell me if you think, they are abrasive or nice.

This is something I dont get in my head: why people cannot try to talk with respect to each other. Sometimes it happens to be a little abrasive, okay, but it seems to me that people do it very often here. Irl they would never talk to somebody else in this way, I am sure.

[WanDaMan]

It's not professional nor is it relevant for an online game...

[Gambet]

I think Graal should stop the whole geared towards young children propaganda. It's the older teens/adults with the money, and it's the older teens/adults that will keep the game alive, not the young children. Graal is simply hurting itself by continuing to follow this senseless issue.

The only way this would work out is if Graal kept the older members entertained and willing to continue playing and upgrading their accounts and so forth.

Now, don't take my above comment as me being for this idea, since I don't agree with this 18+ forum idea at all.

[Stephen]

I would love if Graal could have a 18+ forum, however I can never see it happening. We would have free range to discuss whatever we wish - which would be fairly fun.

I can't imagine Unixmad would be down with that though, as a game business owner Also, I didn't vote as it's labeled very poorly; "OMG YES! Graal Needs this!", would have voted this aside from the "graal needs this".

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I can't imagine Unixmad would be down with that though, as a game business owner Also, I didn't vote as it's labeled very poorly; "OMG YES! Graal Needs this!", would have voted this aside from the "graal needs this".

I would feel very uncomfortable discussing adult topics on a game forum designed for 13 year olds and up, even if it were a seperate part of the forums that members had to sign up for saying they are 18. People just need to understand that these are not general forums, they are forums for a game.

[Googi]

Didn't someone (maybe it was even you) already try suggesting this?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Googi

Didn't someone (maybe it was even you) already try suggesting this?

I'm not sure if you're responding to my statement or not - please use quotes

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm not sure if you're responding to my statement or not - please use quotes

There's no quotes because I'm making a general response to the original post (so the person I'm talking to is the thread creator).

[excaliber7388]

I see what you're saying about it being a video game. But you should know that it isn't just younger kids playing video games anymore.
Maybe an 18+ forum is pushing it a little. I'd rather see a set of rules set up for the lounge that are more relaxed, and allow the mature discussions of a few more things, understanding that the majority of people using these forums are over 18.

[-Ching]

wtf why are you idiots obsessed with 'maturity' ..

when you go to the shop to buy lets say..alcohol..they dont go 'NOW ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE MATURE ENOUGH TO BUY THIS?' .. they ask if you're old enough

It's not about being mature, it's about being old enough to be able to take part in 18+ discussions/topics.

And Darlene stop going on about being mature, how old are you and you sit here playing a young persons game, i'd say thats immature, I dont mean any offense here, but i think it's you that should grow up and realise your age and go do things like life that adults should be doing, instead of wasting your life here.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

I'd rather see a set of rules set up for the lounge that are more relaxed, and allow the mature discussions of a few more things, understanding that the majority of people using these forums are over 18.

We tried to be relaxed, it doesn't work on these forums.

Originally Posted by -Ching

And Darlene stop going on about being mature, how old are you and you sit here playing a young persons game, i'd say thats immature, I dont mean any offense here, but i think it's you that should grow up and realise your age and go do things like life that adults should be doing, instead of wasting your life here.

See, this is what I see way too often, proving that this game is more for kids.
The age group is for 13+. No where does it say that you cannot be over a certain age to play. If it does, show me. I do not waste my life here. Regardless of what you might think, I do make time for myself, rightly so, and the hobbies I choose to have.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

We tried to be relaxed, it doesn't work on these forums.

I honestly don't remember that...ever

[Sam]

Originally Posted by -Ching

wtf why are you idiots obsessed with 'maturity' ..

when you go to the shop to buy lets say..alcohol..they dont go 'NOW ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE MATURE ENOUGH TO BUY THIS?' .. they ask if you're old enough

It's not about being mature, it's about being old enough to be able to take part in 18+ discussions/topics.

And Darlene stop going on about being mature, how old are you and you sit here playing a young persons game, i'd say thats immature, I dont mean any offense here, but i think it's you that should grow up and realise your age and go do things like life that adults should be doing, instead of wasting your life here.

No, you are wrong. Your attidude is immature and full of biased opinions.
Who the hell have to judge about the likings and hobbies of other persons? Who has the right to tell somebody else if and when and how he/she can play a game, moderate a game forum or play with a dollhouse?
I dont think we are the idiots in this case, sorry.

[-Ching]

Originally Posted by Sam

No, you are wrong. Your attidude is immature and full of biased opinions.
Who the hell have to judge about the likings and hobbies of other persons? Who has the right to tell somebody else if and when and how he/she can play a game, moderate a game forum or play with a dollhouse?
I dont think we are the idiots in this case, sorry.

I'm sure she appreciates your love, but i wasnt talking to you

Who are you to decide who's mature and who isnt? just because they dont act like you do? that makes them immature? If you can decide that a person is immature just because they dont have the same ways of thinking as you, then i have the right to claim that a person of an 'older' age playing a game with people 3x younger than him/her is immature.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by -Ching

I'm sure she appreciates your love, but i wasnt talking to you

Who are you to decide who's mature and who isnt? just because they dont act like you do? that makes them immature? If you can decide that a person is immature just because they dont have the same ways of thinking as you, then i have the right to claim that a person of an 'older' age playing a game with people 3x younger than him/her is immature.

In your case it is very easy: you are not mature and you self admit it.
In general its not me who decide who IS immature but I can judge who ACTS immature.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by -Ching

wtf why are you idiots obsessed with 'maturity' ...

Calling people idiots.... Nice way to start a rant about maturity...

when you go to the shop to buy lets say..alcohol..they dont go 'NOW ARE YOU SURE YOU'RE MATURE ENOUGH TO BUY THIS?' .. they ask if you're old enough

They should. Don't base your arguement on the screwed up laws in this world.

And Darlene stop going on about being mature, how old are you and you sit here playing a young persons game, i'd say thats immature, I dont mean any offense here, but i think it's you that should grow up and realise your age and go do things like life that adults should be doing, instead of wasting your life here.

I take personal offense to this. I'm 23 and I don't feel like I should be told I'm immature because I like to play games like Graal. What should adults be doing oh wise one? Reading newspapers and drinking coffee? Should every person over the age of 21 be getting married, having kids and working 9 to 5? What a load. Please don't post in this thread anymore. Save yourself the embarassment.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by konidias

I take personal offense to this. I'm 23 and I don't feel like I should be told I'm immature because I like to play games like Graal. What should adults be doing oh wise one? Reading newspapers and drinking coffee? Should every person over the age of 21 be getting married, having kids and working 9 to 5? What a load. Please don't post in this thread anymore. Save yourself the embarassment.

In the same sense, a person's access to a forum should not be defined by one person's judgement on what's mature