I love the quality of the Moderators here

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Lyndzey
I still think that over time they will adjust to their position. Not everyone is going to be good at a job they just got.

Lack of skill or experience isn't a valid excuse here. All they'd need to do in order to avoid those mistakes is to simply think instead of automatically reaching for the close button. What will be achieved by closing this thread? Will it nullify the problem? Will it annoy innocent users? Are these questions so unintuitive that it takes years of training before they can be put into practice? Heck no. Anybody can make the right moderating decision if they just have the presence of mind and intelligence to weigh all the options.

Currently the moderating staff aren't doing that - they'd prefer to deal with every problem in the same way. So what are they lacking? Intelligence, or motivation?

[konidias]

Originally posted by Lyndzey
Kai, thank you for doing what I have been asking for all along.

Taking the time to do so has brought it to my attention that there is a slight problem, but I still think that over time they will adjust to their position. Not everyone is going to be good at a job they just got. Lance made a thread similar to this one in the sandbox and I am sure we can discuss this issue further in there.

I ask for the rest of you to please stop insulting the moderators. I know the intention of this thread was not to flame the mods, but to ask them to change. I am sure that Excal got his point across and that there will be change within the supermods.

Spark has been moderator of PW forums for quite some time... can't really use the excuse that he's inexperienced. As Kai pointed out, MoonGoddess has been on the forums for a long time, and also points out how she would have correctly handled certain moderating situations. So excusing her for inexperience also doesn't work too well.

Yes, this thread is intended on trying to change the current actions and decisions that moderators are making. None of the mods should get offended by it, unless their enormous ego's don't allow them to get past the fact that it's possible they could be wrong.

btw... <3 what would graal do without you lyndzey

[Lyndzey]

Now that this thread has been made (I no longer disagree with the making of this thread), they probably have gotten the picture. You made some very valid points in your post with the threads of what should not have been closed. Perhaps the mods can learn from their mistakes...or perhaps not. We'll have to wait and see.

[protagonist]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Threads that shouldn't have been locked (click the titles):
snip

Two of those I understand, but the one that tlf88 made was spam.
The one about SL was from someone who has a habit of bashing the PW at every point and was trying to inflame an argument.
The one about Maloria was simply against the rules. It could have been deleted, yes.
The deadline thing was basically just turning into mudslinging between Pegleg and Joker.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by protagonist
Two of those I understand, but the one that tlf88 made was spam.

By what definition?

The one about SL was from someone who has a habit of bashing the PW at every point and was trying to inflame an argument.

So he wanted to start an argument, big deal. If things reached a point where he was breaking the rules, the offending posts could've been deleted. He wasn't the only one interested in the topic, and nor was he the only one affected by Spark's rash actions.

The one about Maloria was simply against the rules. It could have been deleted, yes.

Regardless of whether or not you consider community awareness important (how many times have you PWA dudes had to pick up the pieces after a known idiot is hired by an uninformed manager?), it should not have been closed. The only reasonable options were to remove it, or leave it there.

The deadline thing was basically just turning into mudslinging between Pegleg and Joker.

So everybody has to suffer? Here's an idea: Next time somebody flames somebody else, let's delete the entire forums!!!

[protagonist]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


By what definition?

His thread had no other point than to make a joke of other people's work, and it was a waste of forum room.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


So he wanted to start an argument, big deal. If things reached a point where he was breaking the rules, the offending posts could've been deleted. He wasn't the only one interested in the topic, and nor was he the only one affected by Spark's rash actions.

He was once again accusing the PWA of favouratism, and that can be interpreted as the "___ is corrupt" rule.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Regardless of whether or not you consider community awareness important (how many times have you PWA dudes had to pick up the pieces after a known idiot is hired by an uninformed manager?), it should not have been closed. The only reasonable options were to remove it, or leave it there.

There are too many idiots to have a thread for each of them.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

So everybody has to suffer? Here's an idea: Next time somebody flames somebody else, let's delete the entire forums!!!

The actual topic was over, people were just jumping on the flame bandwagon. It wouldn't have stopped, it just would have kept up it's cycle.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by protagonist
His thread had no other point than to make a joke of other people's work, and it was a waste of forum room.

The intention was to amuse people, and make a point at the same time. Are either of these things illegal? Do the supermods delete all threads that they consider unimportant?

He was once again accusing the PWA of favouratism, and that can be interpreted as the "___ is corrupt" rule.

No such rule. Get with the times, man.

Anyway, if Spark couldn't stand to see the suggestion that he wasn't maintaining perfect impartiality then he could've simply deleted the relevant post. He didn't have to close the thread.

There are too many idiots to have a thread for each of them.

And people aren't making threads for each of them, so there isn't a problem.

The actual topic was over

And you had solid proof that nobody would've posted an on-topic message in the future? Did you conduct a survey, or just read everybody's minds? Maybe you asked God?

Or are users only allowed to post if they get there within the first couple of days?

people were just jumping on the flame bandwagon. It wouldn't have stopped, it just would have kept up it's cycle.

Here's another cycle:

Delete offending posts
Warn flamers
Go to Step One

Don't punish all the users for the actions of two! If you do, you let the rulebreakers control you.

[zell12]

And you guys are arguing against Kaimestu's word? Man, he has been the super moderator for how long here? He is also a near-genius.

Oh and like Lyndzey you said before that we should give them time to adjust... How long should it take to understand you don't just close threads without an actual purpose? Unximad said he chose the people BEST for the job. If they are doing poorly, not saying any names, are they the best for it? Or is it because they are popular or talk to the admins on GK dev or something?

Anyway, for the people that think we are insulting moderators (Lyndzey) you can talk to a moderator andask them to delete their posts if they are extremly bad. But, as you said, I got my point across, as did Kaimestu, and others.

So, mods, are you going to try and change and do it right, or are you going to get tunnel-vision whenever you think someone broke a rule and close a thread?

[Aknts]

I still don't know who deleted it.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by zell12
And you guys are arguing against Kaimestu's word? Man, he has been the super moderator for how long here? He is also a near-genius.

Oh and like Lyndzey you said before that we should give them time to adjust... How long should it take to understand you don't just close threads without an actual purpose? Unximad said he chose the people BEST for the job. If they are doing poorly, not saying any names, are they the best for it? Or is it because they are popular or talk to the admins on GK dev or something?

Anyway, for the people that think we are insulting moderators (Lyndzey) you can talk to a moderator andask them to delete their posts if they are extremly bad. But, as you said, I got my point across, as did Kaimestu, and others.

So, mods, are you going to try and change and do it right, or are you going to get tunnel-vision whenever you think someone broke a rule and close a thread?

You act like someone has done something horrible or something. Wasnt it already said that what was posted here would be taken into consideration? Wasn't it also said that maybe a better option for some of those threads was to prune it and leave it alone? I believe so.
I dont see where anyone is doing that incredibly poorly. You keep making reference to someone getting the job because they are popular, or talk to admins, or whatever....so? Maybe that is how Unixmad knows the person, and knows their performance?
This discussion has been beat to death, and pounded into the ground, we get the point, no need to keep saying the same things over and over and over......

[Lance]

Going back to the list that should not have been trashcanned+closed: the original announcement of the new supermods. No such announcement should be completely censored due to off-topic posting, flaming, whatever.

As Kai has repeatedly said, deleting the offending posts would have been superior.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Wasnt it already said that what was posted here would be taken into consideration?

It was indeed. However, taking something into consideration is only the first step. We'd like assurance that you won't simply dismiss it when the argument is over.

For one thing, you could try responding to some of the points that have been made. Why are you so reluctant to address my argument about threads whose purpose has already been met?

You keep making reference to someone getting the job because they are popular, or talk to admins, or whatever....so?

The point they are making is simply this: You weren't chosen because you were the best for the job. You were chosen because you know Unixmad. Yeah, he trusts you. Great. But that doesn't mean you're going to perform competently, as you've already demonstrated. Whether or not that point is relevant to the matter at hand is debatable, but the reasons for your appointment aren't exactly off-topic.

This discussion has been beat to death, and pounded into the ground, we get the point

Angel just closed Nova's book thread. You get the point? Are you sure?

[Darlene159]

Let me make this clear, Kai
I dont respond to your posts because I dont wish to...your points however have been answered through the answering of others posts

And to make something else clear, I really dont know Unixmad at all....I have rarely talked to him, and when I have it has been really short...He is familiar with how Npulse was ran when we were managers, and familiar with my feeling of rules on the forums, but we are certainly not chummy.

Also, as for your last part, I AM NOT ANGEL, so address any questions you have for her, to her.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Let me make this clear, Kai
I dont respond to your posts because I dont wish to...

Ah. And to think, I thought you didn't have a good reason!

your points however have been answered through the answering of others posts

I don't think any of my posts have been adequately answered so far. If you believe otherwise, feel free to point me in the right direction. Otherwise, don't tell us to stop debating the issue when we haven't yet achieved our objective.

And to make something else clear, I really dont know Unixmad at all....I have rarely talked to him, and when I have it has been really short...

Eh, then it was probably because you're old. Either:

A) He knows you well enough to judge your trustworthiness, in which case he's probably spoken to enough to make you more of a friend than most other potential supermods. Or:
B) He based it on some near-arbitrary factor such as age.

One way or another, it's clear that you weren't chosen simply because Unixmad felt you were a good potential moderator, because hey, you're not. Of course, this assumes that Unixmad has good judgement. Are you going to argue to the contrary?

Also, as for your last part, I AM NOT ANGEL, so address any questions you have for her, to her.

I quote: "we get the point"

If you don't want to represent others, don't speak for them.

[superb]

I don't think she's being completely honest with us. I've heard otherwise about her relationship with unixmad.

[MrCharles]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu



What the billy-o are you trying to say?

hahahahahahHAHAHAHHhhaHahahahahah
hahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaa

wow i found that extremely funny for some reason

hey kai :]

[zell12]

Well Moonie, sorry, you do not speak for EVERY moderator. otice I never said super moderator? I said all of them. So please, address yourself, and not everyone else.

[Darlene159]

I do apologize for speaking for all the mods, I didnt realize I was doing that.
I said that Unixmad is aware of how I ran Npulse, he knows I am strict on rules, I have also discussed these forums with him on occassion.

I don't think she's being completely honest with us. I've heard otherwise about her relationship with unixmad.

Unixmad and I have no "relationship" except maybe a business one, I dont know what you are getting at here, nor do I care

One thing to you Kai....I never once said to stop debating this issue, I simply said that I persoanlly will not address your posts.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I said that Unixmad is aware of how I ran Npulse, he knows I am strict on rules

How was he made aware of that?

I have also discussed these forums with him on occassion.

Somehow I don't think that he initiated the conversations. And I think I can guess what the topic usually was

Unixmad and I have no "relationship" except maybe a business one

As I said, the friendship issue is moot anyway. Age, familiarity, repressed love, whatever. The important point is that you weren't chosen because of your ability to moderate fora.

One thing to you Kai....I never once said to stop debating this issue

Once more I wave the wand of quoting: "This discussion has been beat to death, and pounded into the ground, we get the point". Implication being: You want it to stop.

Tell me, Mrs Supermod: Why don't you want to answer my points? Sure, it was fine when you were a normal user, but "I don't want to lose the debate" isn't really a valid justification here. Burying your head in the sand for personal reasons is hardly good conduct, especially given the embarrassing number of errors that you've already made. You admitted that you make mistakes, and yet you seem reticent to learn from a more experienced moderator. Which is more important: Your pride, or your performance as supermod?

[Crono]

Leave it to Kai to stand up for us little people !

Own them Mr.Script monkey.

[zell12]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
...fora.

Why don't you want to answer my points? Sure, it was fine when you were a normal user, but "I don't want to lose the debate" isn't really a valid justification here. Burying your head in the sand for personal reasons is hardly good conduct, especially given the embarrassing number of errors that you've already made. You admitted that you make mistakes, and yet you seem reticent to learn from a more experienced moderator. Which is more important: Your pride, or your performance as supermod?

I am just thinking that she doesn't talking to you because in the past you two do not get along? Mabey that is the reason, but mabey we should just let her explain to all of us, if she wants to justify this, why she doesn't want to reply your posts. (Even though she keeps doing it )

[superb]

Originally posted by zell12



I am just thinking that she doesn't talking to you because in the past you two do not get along? Mabey that is the reason, but mabey we should just let her explain to all of us, if she wants to justify this, why she doesn't want to reply your posts. (Even though she keeps doing it )

Nah, I think it's just because she realizes she is wrong.

[zell12]

Well, thats your opinion and I gave mine. So lets just wait until she can tell us eh?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by zell12
I am just thinking that she doesn't talking to you because in the past you two do not get along?

You are certainly correct about our previous enmity; I don't like her and she doesn't like me. However, I raise two important facts:

1) Like Moon Goddess and I, many of the people posting in this thread have some amount of dislike for their opponents. However, almost all of us are continuing to debate because we care about the subject matter. We're out of kindergarten now, and refusing to speak to somebody is no longer an effective or socially acceptable tactic.
2) Though she would apparently choose to scoop out her spleen with a rusty spoon before she would address my points, she has been speaking to me. If your explanation were true then she would say nothing to me, rather than merely limiting herself to matters irrelevant to the debate.

Note: I realise that you were only giving a possible explanation. I'm not really arguing against you, I'm arguing against it

[Darlene159]

I have nothing more to say on this issue, it is like beating a dead horse now, saying the same thing over and over.
The rest of you feel free to debate/discuss the issue, I have nothing more to add.

[Lance]

Hilarious, though pitiful.

I can't say I didn't foresee this happening, though.

[marcoR]

You're my goddamn hero Kaimetsu.
Logic bot: 1
the others: 0

[Divider]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu



2) Though she would apparently choose to scoop out her spleen with a rusty spoon before she would address my points, she has been speaking to me. If your explanation were true then she would say nothing to me, rather than merely limiting herself to matters irrelevant to the debate.

Maybe she wont address your points because she knows you'll find a flaw in them and take them apart bit by bit by bit by bit by bit meaning this debate, argument or whatever you want to call it will just carry on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

Though I am not siding with the mods here or the other people, I do feel they have made mistakes, but it is getting boring watching it being dragged on and on.

[marcoR]

I've seen arguments like that, they're the ones that have no purpose, or goal other than to scream "I'm right, and you're wrong!"


This isn't one of them.

[WHIPENIE4]

Originally posted by konidias


Um... Angel is a supermod... do you not think she would have moved it herself if it was breaking any rules. As a matter of fact, do you think she'd even upgrade my account if it was breaking the rules? Use your head man.

I said the thread was modfied. Not individual posts. Deleting posts from a thread is modifying the thread.

but she was in the thread talking, why would she delete it?

[superb]

Originally posted by Divider



Maybe she wont address your points because she knows you'll find a flaw in them and take them apart bit by bit by bit by bit by bit meaning this debate, argument or whatever you want to call it will just carry on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

Though I am not siding with the mods here or the other people, I do feel they have made mistakes, but it is getting boring watching it being dragged on and on.

No, she's just flat out avoiding his points because she knows she is wrong and it's even more frustrating to her that it's been pointed out that she didn't get the job because of her moderating abilities.

[zell12]

Well, nothing against Kai or others, but I personally dislike people who breakdown the quotes and reply to them individually. Because they all have to connect to make sence, depending on what you are saying because some people, like myself, have trouble speaking (and typing messages) to people and jumble all their ideas and mix them together.

But anyway away from that now. We all know why Moonie doesn't like Kai and why Kai doesn't like her. So heh.

So, i'm going to ask this again, hoping to get results from more than one moderator:

Will you guys try better to determine the correct way to edit a thread, or when to close threads and/or move them to trash can?

[superb]

Won't happen man. Spark is still closing threads when they should NOT be closed.

[Angel]

Flame me, Pm me, Burn me at the stake, Dont care. This thread is closed now.

[Spark910]

Originally posted by superb
Won't happen man. Spark is still closing threads when they should NOT be closed.

PM examples, do entertain me.