Lifetime Classic

[excaliber7388]

I didn't realize that was a vip/gold thing only.
I just wouldn't want big parts of classic servers to be limited to gold/vip only.
I'd like to see extra vip/gold only things, just not things that would limit developers.
Classic servers should have to have so many gold/vip benefits on their servers to stay classic. That way there's a large amount of benefits for gold/vip, but it doesn't take away from the core game for classic accounts.
Also, Googi makes a good point, don't delete his post because it's about moderation, it's a good suggestion. Who would pay more just to come here?

[xXziroXx]

Graal needs avdertising.

Why have it not been done? Sure, Graal might be mentioned in one place or another, but is enough advertising being done? No, far from it. Make signatures for people to have in their signature on other forums so the players themself can help in advertising. Pay for Google adds (I dunno if you pay for them or how it works..) - that will give you tons of hits every day.

Another thing that you guys really should be slapped on the fingers for, is, that you update the graalonline.com page once a year or so. Why arnt you updating it often? Because you are lazy? I dont think so, but even a simple thing like that makes GraalOnline look bad for new players.

How can you earn money?

One solution, that I dont really like myself, is to let other games advertise on your website for a monthly fee. Other then that.. well, I dont know.

Accounts
Allow Trial accounts to work as a p2p, but limit it to 1 hour game play a day. p2p accounts shouldnt have to be paid for, although they should be limited to classic servers ONLY.

The VIP package is pretty much useless, only have the Gold package. The majority of players would chose Gold over VIP if they only were paying for one, since the Gold package gives them unlimited play time on Gold and Hosted servers unlike VIP. Sure, VIP lets you make a global guild - *wow*

The Global Staff / Servers
Why is there rarely new additions to the Classic list? Is there really that few Hosted servers that got what it takes to get there? And why is there so few Hosted servers, and its rarely updated? It should be updated alot more often..

Well, Ive said my thoughts.

[Minoc]

I'd be willing to pay more for an Old Graal based server.

[excaliber7388]

I have VIP, not gold. It's all I need to get on my dev server, I like the difference because then I don't have to pay full price for gold, which I'm not sure I'd do if I had to.
We definatly should advertise, have google advertisements on the forums, as well as other ads on the main page.
Or maybe in game?
As for accounts, Trials should have 1 month as a full p2p, then they are 'reset' untill they upgrade. They would have a week to upgrade or they lo\ose their stuff. This would cause more of a 'rushed' feeling, causing them to be more willing to purchase it. You have to make them convinced they need to upgrade to a classic account at least. Then show them all the cool features they get with gold/vip for a month or so, and once again, take it away at the end of the month. There shoud be more in game benefits for upgrading, without limiting the classic users.
Also, put an activity thing in, like they have to go on the client at least once every few months to keep their classic account.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

As for accounts, Trials should have 1 month as a full p2p, then they are 'reset' untill they upgrade. They would have a week to upgrade or they loose their stuff. This would cause more of a 'rushed' feeling, causing them to be more willing to purchase it.

Or just make a new trial account. This is a bad idea.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Googi

Or just make a new trial account. This is a bad idea.

Obviously they'd have to limit it to one per email, one per Ip range, comp ID, etc.
Maybe you have to register or pay for an account, and then you get one month free.
Obviously, advertising is the most important thing.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Obviously they'd have to limit it to one per email, one per Ip range, comp ID, etc.

None of these are a highly secure way of preventing the creation of multiple accounts.

[excaliber7388]

True

[konidias]

Okay! *cracks knuckles* Time for me to repeat myself!

I'm really glad that you're making this thread Unixmad... it's definitely a step forward.

Okay first off... the forums and classic's current content are not worth anyone reupgrading. So that should be free forever. (after the initial gold upgrade) This let's non-gold players communicate with staff and gold players, which in turn, might convince them to upgrade for whatever reason.

Next, the website issue has been addressed, but I will restate that I think you should have weekly contests for poems/comics/art/stories so that you'll get people contributing to Graal as a community, plus if you give them discounts off graal store merchandise or discounts on another upgrade, it will encourage people to submit stuff. This could be a weekly update to the site which would keep the website even more active looking. Plus when strangers come in from the outside and see the site has a lot of fan art and stuff, it's going to show that this game has fans and people dedicated enough to write stories or draw art for it.

Another big thing is staff... You've simply got to dig up some more people to handle this stuff. Support center, website, possibly a newsletter... more moderators for the forums and possibly ease up on the rules... Otherwise the forums feel very unfriendly where you can't have an opinion that a mod/admin doesn't like without being banned.

Okay... now on to the actual point of this thread... How to make money with Graal. You need more gold content. More servers. You need to get teams put together of talented people and you need to watch over them like they are your children. You get together these teams and you assign them new gold servers to make... and make sure they are active. You could possibly reward these people with free gold days for each day of work they put into the server. This is only fair seeing as how they are losing play time by working for you. Then while the servers are being made, you pull in some people from the outside to give their opinions about it... Maybe you could start by creating a website or forum poll that is multiple choice which lets people choose what sort of servers they'd like to see. (medieval fantasy, modern, futuristic, something totally different, etc)

You need someone at Stefan's level or Stefan himself to actually keep these teams in check and possibly motivate them and keep them working. You'd have quality gold servers coming out all the time. You also need to encourage professionalism with the team. Not just acting professional but making professional quality work. Not just slapping random levels and graphics together from all directions. All graphics and levels and scripts and everything about the server should stay consistent.

So anyway, the main problem is that you have 2 gold servers that aren't very active, up against a dozen + classic servers with varying levels of activity. You need to try and match the number of classic servers with Gold ones. That doesn't mean taking the badly made classic servers and forcing them to go Gold. It means starting new gold server projects.

I mean, it's silly to even ask why nobody is upgrading when all you have are two gold servers that are in specific genres. I don't like the hardcore stats based MMORPGs and I don't like the futuristic laser shooting stuff. So where does that leave me as far as gold servers? I've got no options.

I would stop worrying about Graal3D and put more focus into making more high quality and active Gold servers. Your current playerbase didn't start playing Graal because it was fancy 3D. I don't want fancy 3D Graal and I'm sure many people agree with me.

Which reminds me... stop losing focus on what Graal is about. Graal is not a 3D game and it shouldn't be. Graal is not a hub for flash games. If you want to make flash games, then make them graal related. Make chess but make it using little graal characters instead of chess pieces. Screw having a flash game lobby. Why not make a gold server that acts as a lobby for tons of Graal minigames like those? I think that would be far more interesting. You could still link the games in the lobby, just have them direct the player into that gold server. When those games came out I didn't even know they EXISTED. My account is expired and there is no listing of the games at all in my Graal game.

Also, don't base Graal's image around one server. I hate it. I don't like GK that much and yet you've changed Graal to "Graal Kingdoms". All of your merchandise minus one item is GK related. The website images, the forum... it's all GK related. I miss the fun family-oriented slash'em that Graal once was.

You could definitely get more people upgrading if there were more gold servers that people actually wanted to play. I mean you've got this great game engine and scripting language and all the tools needed to make great online games... yet you have two measily gold servers as your selling point. =/ I gave up on GK a long time ago... Because it lost it's professionalism the moment Stefan stopped focusing 100% on it. The economy was never balanced properly, staff were hired with powers and not watched over. People would abuse glitches and nothing was done about their accounts being overpowered. The one of a kind battleaxe I won in the first spar event ended up being three of a kind within a couple of months... Just things like that which ruin the experience.

I'd love to go into more detail about how Graal could do a lot better but I know you don't exactly like me or what I have to say anymore.

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by konidias

You need to get teams put together of talented people and you need to watch over them like they are your children. You get together these teams and you assign them new gold servers to make... and make sure they are active. You could possibly reward these people with free gold days for each day of work they put into the server. This is only fair seeing as how they are losing play time by working for you. Then while the servers are being made, you pull in some people from the outside to give their opinions about it... Maybe you could start by creating a website or forum poll that is multiple choice which lets people choose what sort of servers they'd like to see. (medieval fantasy, modern, futuristic, something totally different, etc)

Problem is you aren't going to really get TEAMS. And in Graals current state SERVERS is setting the pole ten times too high.

I agree new servers need to be made. But just do one and then another. One a year, as an official big project, is more than enough. Help needs to be given to projects that are good in the UC section (pick one up like with Zone).

I would stop worrying about Graal3D and put more focus into making more high quality and active Gold servers.

I agree, and have said it many times. Graal 3D does not make sense. It's a waste of resources. What comes out will not be anywhere near worth or proportionate to the resources put in to make it.

There is also a free trial built into Graal already, but it hasn't been used yet.

[excaliber7388]

Actually, I think a lot of people would be willing to upgrade to gold/vip for Graal 3d. I would love to see graal go 3d. And if you allow 3d playerworlds, we'll even be better off.
Of course, you'll also need a good, easy to use, 3d level editor.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Actually, I think a lot of people would be willing to upgrade to gold/vip for Graal 3d. I would love to see graal go 3d. And if you allow 3d playerworlds, we'll even be better off.
Of course, you'll also need a good, easy to use, 3d level editor.

If it weren't for the fact that it's not going to look that great and it's going to be based entirely around GK.

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Actually, I think a lot of people would be willing to upgrade to gold/vip for Graal 3d. I would love to see graal go 3d. And if you allow 3d playerworlds, we'll even be better off.
Of course, you'll also need a good, easy to use, 3d level editor.

Graal 3d is outdated now, if its the same one they shown a while ago. There are much better looking 3d games that are free and since you cant actually play the game when you look at a screenshot they move on. I really think thats one of Graals main problems people look at a screenshot say no and move on without even trying the game. Not to mention if they do a vast majority of servers arnt trail friendly. (Although nothings more annoying then someone with a trail accout that has played for a year without upgrading ::cough:: UN ::cough::.

So maybe a limit on trails that can be logged onto one server and time them like if there online for more then a hour or two it kicks them and if they rejoin there at the back of the que? It would force them to upgrade if they liked the game or get kicked over and over.

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by unixmad

So Cyberjoueurs have to find solutions to attract more players (and I am working on it very actively) but also find solution to not loose endlessly money with long time customers.

Um......How do I put this...This game just isnt as good as other games =/. The Question is probobly "why" right? Only thing I can ever think of when I compare graal to other games I play is the weak gameplay.

I think maybe you need to do some research on how to create a game with deep gameplay. How about start a thread about that and the you might just pick up a few nice ideas...that are probobly all over this thread but you seem to have completely ignored them.

Koni talks about your staff team such as Stefan but I have to say I dont care who develops graal I care about the gameplay, and gameplay is the only thing you need to bring in $USD. Sadly you dont have it IMO. Anyone else agree?

But then again you need to start a brand new server...and you need to best developers your gonna find to create it because most of these amateurs on graal just arnt going to cut it.

You need to create somthing that people love because you cant market somthing people dont love. People love Zelda but after awile when they relize this isnt a Zelda they have to start loving graal but at this moment people sure dont love graal.

..one more small word of advise...take the key notes of what people dislike about graal in this thread and then make of list of them. Then Disscuss that list with your staff team...the professional ones. I dont think any buisness could do it better than that.

Originally Posted by Stefan

But the flying technology is a good update? It is an update accessible to gold subscribers. It it not restricting the game play for other players, and is eventually encouraging them to upgrade. Why should classic players reupgrade if they get the same stuff without resubscribing?

This has to be the only upgrade for graal in awile that is big but the fact is its still not that big of a update. Its a update for people who choose to develop for graal more than it is for the players. The real update is if it will and can be used in a way that seems innovative. So at the moment I dont think anyone is gonna upgrade their account or buy a new account for such a thing.

[WanDaMan]

I originally upgraded to VIP for Graal3D, my subscription ran out before I got to play ;p

[konidias]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

I originally upgraded to VIP for Graal3D, my subscription ran out before I got to play ;p

That's another thing... get rid of VIP. You made a lot of customers unhappy by giving them like nothing worth the extra money... A VIP subscription would usuall y mean that person gets access to new stuff frequently... but that's not the case here. Maybe VIP could be re-initiated once you have more frequent updates... Otherwise you're misleading people by making them think they will get all sorts of special perks and get to help test new stuff each month... When in reality it's like you get to test a new script function once a year, a couple of days before everyone else does.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by konidias

That's another thing... get rid of VIP. You made a lot of customers unhappy by giving them like nothing worth the extra money... A VIP subscription would usuall y mean that person gets access to new stuff frequently... but that's not the case here. Maybe VIP could be re-initiated once you have more frequent updates... Otherwise you're misleading people by making them think they will get all sorts of special perks and get to help test new stuff each month... When in reality it's like you get to test a new script function once a year, a couple of days before everyone else does.

I think the VIP subscription should be redone, and renamed Classic subscription. Perks that were originally said to be given to VIP only, should just be given to VIP (Classic) and Gold. The "free for life" classic account should go away.

[UberModeKappa]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

The "free for life" classic account should go away.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
So you basically want the game to be as empty as the forums? Genius!

[Googi]

Originally Posted by UberModeKappa

AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH
So you basically want the game to be as empty as the forums? Genius!

It may infact be necessary to abolish it, I don't know exactly how bad the financial situation is, but it would depend on that.

Of course, getting rid of Moon Goddess as forum staff would be a good idea too.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I think the VIP subscription should be redone, and renamed Classic subscription. Perks that were originally said to be given to VIP only, should just be given to VIP (Classic) and Gold. The "free for life" classic account should go away.

Playercount will drop serverly, people don't want to pay that often for graal.
They simply need to offer more benefits for vip/gold, or maybe make there be a small cost of a classic membership, like $10 a year or something small. I'd rather see more incentive to upgrade, and more advertising...and better targeting. Lets face it, you can't be targeting younger audiences all the time.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I think the VIP subscription should be redone, and renamed Classic subscription. Perks that were originally said to be given to VIP only, should just be given to VIP (Classic) and Gold. The "free for life" classic account should go away.

No that's horrible. Then you're forcing people to pay just to play the game. They've already given classic away for anyone who has ever upgraded, they can't take that back now. It would cause a huge backlash.

Like I said, classic servers are currently not worth upgrading each year (no offense to those server owners, but it's true). Nobody is going to pay just to access the classic servers when they were once free for anyone who has upgraded before.

They need to stop focusing on all this non-graal stuff like the flash games and graal3d and focus on improving customer support, the website, gold servers, and most importantly, getting the players more involved in the community and rewarding players and all these people working hard to make content for Graal.

I can understand Unixmad's dilemma here, but he of all people should know that the majority of Graal's actual playable content is made by players. You can't expect people to pay to work. It's just not gonna last very long. You need to reward the hard working people who have spent countless hours working for Graal instead of playing it.

Really, how hard would it be to add on some extra gold account days to someone? Johnny won the art contest and gets his account name listed on the site for that week, and he also gets an extra week added to his gold account. Now don't you think that would not only make Johnny happy, but also encourage others to participate and want to upgrade to get those benefits? Of course submitting stuff for the contest would require you had a gold account, but it would be well worth it if you could get a free week added on for each time you won. And really... what is one extra week given away compared to the fact that it's going to benefit Graal so much?

I think the biggest weapon in Graal's arsenal IS the fact that they could give out free gold time as prizes. It costs Graal absolutely nothing to give someone an extra week free, and guess what? They will be happy and probably upgrade again. So wow, you give them one extra week and get a whole year's re-upgrade out of the deal. I think that's a pretty good investment.

I believe they could successfully pull off good teams of people to work on new gold servers if they offered some sort of compensation. I'm not saying money, but again, free gold time... whatever.

Also if there was to be a VIP upgrade to an account, one of the biggest features it should boast is that you'd have faster access to staff or customer support. Like your support tickets get moved to the top of the list or something. That would be nice.

[Lord Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

The "free for life" classic account should go away.

I may be a bit late here, but this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

Get rid of Free for Life Classic Accounts and basically say bye to 60-70% of your playerbase.

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I think the VIP subscription should be redone, and renamed Classic subscription. Perks that were originally said to be given to VIP only, should just be given to VIP (Classic) and Gold. The "free for life" classic account should go away.

If the free for life goes away so many people will stop playing. The people who actually play will be in ghost town servers.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I think the VIP subscription should be redone, and renamed Classic subscription. Perks that were originally said to be given to VIP only, should just be given to VIP (Classic) and Gold. The "free for life" classic account should go away.

I agree with this.

[pacMASTA]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I think the VIP subscription should be redone, and renamed Classic subscription. Perks that were originally said to be given to VIP only, should just be given to VIP (Classic) and Gold. The "free for life" classic account should go away.

So after pumping in probally atleast $500+ to Cyberjouers Im no longer even entitled to go on the classic server? So in theory im becoming a trial again? Worst idea ever. Please shut up and leave.

Originally Posted by Googi

That I would, Assistant Koni.

Excuse me would you like another coffee?

Edit:
I'll probally be banned for this one but I would like to put this on the table for future updates if their is any beacsue Graal is on the eve of distruction. I think I should have a gold plated statue commemerating on Global Bans, Forum Bans, Local Bans, PC Bans, IP Bans, and Jails... Its not easy being #1 Ban Man...


Jean-Paul Marat... Was a very hateful person and full of much anger and rage towards the French Goverment; But although his words were hateful he was one of the many who fuled the French revolution by venting all of his anger into words via the form of his Revolutionist newspaper "L'Ami de peuple" which means the friend of the people.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by pacMASTA

So after pumping in probally atleast $500+ to Cyberjouers Im no longer even entitled to go on the classic server? So in theory im becoming a trial again? Worst idea ever. Please shut up and leave.

I was more referring to from now on. I was not saying to take it away from those who already have it.
Do you really think that the owners will listen to anything you have to say when you post so hatefully?
Learn how to post constructively, and your opinion might be heard/read.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by pacMASTA

So after pumping in probally atleast $500+ to Cyberjouers Im no longer even entitled to go on the classic server? So in theory im becoming a trial again? Worst idea ever. Please shut up and leave.

Agreed, who wouldn't leave graal after that?

He should advertise, and offer new things, additional things (not important additions to the system, such as flying...unless it's just something that happens when the zoom factor is changed), should also be offered to vip/gold.
Also, you could update the website more often, and have ads on there, and google ads on these forums. Ads in game have even been suggested. And you yourself have to make some advertisements for graal already, that's how you get new customers!

[xXziroXx]

One of the major reasons that I play Graal, is, the fact that its an online 2D game. If I wanted to play an online 3D game, I would play *insert name here*.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Excaliber7388

Coldn't agree less

It's too bad you're doing that for no real reason in particular. Unless you've spent the past year eating, sleeping, and breathing Graal 3D, don't act like it's not a waste of resources.

Originally Posted by Excaliber7388

At least my logic doesn't surround a "I'm always right and morally supperior" core

Are you kidding me? How many discussions have you been in where you take the grounds of, "Well you just wouldn't understand because you don't use mac, claim transgendered status, or something similar?" If there is a list of people who do this the most, you're in one of the top spots. OUt of everyone on this board you're probably one of the worst about making unfounded arguements.

[Admins]

Well sometimes it is hard to understand the logic of people who are posting on the forums, first they complain about missing additions for gold accounts, next week they complain about the additions for gold accounts

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well sometimes it is hard to understand the logic of people who are posting on the forums, first they complain about missing additions for gold accounts, next week they complain about the additions for gold accounts

Correct me if I'm wrong but people are complaining about the missing additions for Gold servers, rather than accounts. The problem is how you guys are implementing things, in my opinion.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well sometimes it is hard to understand the logic of people who are posting on the forums, first they complain about missing additions for gold accounts, next week they complain about the additions for gold accounts

Only when the additions are going to be a huge improvement for graal (one I really, really, want to use on my server), that classic accounts can't use. It would make part of my server not function for most of the users

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well sometimes it is hard to understand the logic of people who are posting on the forums, first they complain about missing additions for gold accounts, next week they complain about the additions for gold accounts

We complain about the lack of content for gold accounts... That doesn't mean add scripting features like this that only gold players can enjoy. It means we want more gold servers, more professional staff, better customer support, a better website, etc, etc, etc.

I really wish you'd read my posts... and if you did read my posts... I really wish you'd give me your feedback on my ideas... not just make some vague statement about how people seem to be contradicting themselves.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well sometimes it is hard to understand the logic of people who are posting on the forums, first they complain about missing additions for gold accounts, next week they complain about the additions for gold accounts

I complained about the flying system being less than meets the eye, but I'm not one of the people complaining about a lack of updates.

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well sometimes it is hard to understand the logic of people who are posting on the forums, first they complain about missing additions for gold accounts, next week they complain about the additions for gold accounts

Well, you only have yourself to blame; stop doing useless updates what players do not want.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Well, you only have yourself to blame; stop doing useless updates what players do not want.

Look at you, oh so big.

Often the updates made to Graal are for the benefit of the game, whether that be adding to existing projects or aiding future ones. It is like Unixmad said before, Cyberjoueurs is a company. They need to make decisions for themselves on top of listening to the players.

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Often the updates made to Graal are for the benefit of the game, whether that be adding to existing projects or aiding future ones. It is like Unixmad said before, Cyberjoueurs is a company. They need to make decisions for themselves on top of listening to the players.

Great idea in theory.

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by Skyld

Look at you, oh so big.

Often the updates made to Graal are for the benefit of the game, whether that be adding to existing projects or aiding future ones. It is like Unixmad said before, Cyberjoueurs is a company. They need to make decisions for themselves on top of listening to the players.

That needs money who pays the money? The players, your statement made no sense kthxbai.

Originally Posted by pacMASTA

So after pumping in probally atleast $500+ to Cyberjouers Im no longer even entitled to go on the classic server? So in theory im becoming a trial again? Worst idea ever. Please shut up and leave.

That is owned on so many levels.

You need to make some ads and keep a updated website. Honestly if it wasnt for a google search of Zelda online I woulda never found this and I know alot of other people wouldent. Now the website a inactive website scares people away.Also relax on the moderation im not in prision or Cuba here.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by zim5354

That needs money who pays the money? The players, your statement made no sense kthxbai.

They want to make money while serving their chosen category. If it was simply "PEOPLE HAVE MONEY WE WANT IT" they'd open strip bars, opium dens, and firearm shops.

"kthxbai"

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by zim5354

That needs money who pays the money? The players, your statement made no sense kthxbai.

What? Go and take a class on Business Studies.