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  #1  
Old 01-04-2005, 07:46 AM
busyrobot busyrobot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
-_-

You're too ignorant and hard headed to argue with. You're a broken record which keeps repeating things after they have been proven wrong.

I'll reply to a post when a good point is actually made.
Zurk, if you keep stating the same flawed reasons over and over, of course I'll sound like a broken record. All you have proven is that you are entrenched in your own views, no matter how out of synch they are.

You have stated you firmly believe Zormite are still fish people, dispite the fact that is not the case. Why do I say its not the case? Because I can back it up: Zormite has roleplayed for years as humans, the entire server knows on 2k2, Zormite is made up of humans. Its like saying the Soviets never collapsed or the south won the civil war, its possible to say it, but only if you ignore all of modern history.
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Old 01-04-2005, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
All you have proven is that you are entrenched in your own views, no matter how out of synch they are.
Wait, let me get this straight.
You say we should suggest ways to improve RPing in this thread.
You say that 2k1 has no relevance to GK.
You see an admittence of your right as an attack.
You somehow keep arguing against three others, but assume you still haven't been proved wrong.
You are the one entrenched in your own views
What happened to you? Before you were a kingdom leader you were teh l33t.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2005, 05:54 AM
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Why u guys Getting soPissed off for a game.
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2005, 05:56 AM
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I agree with Zurkiba.. God.. Theirs no point in argueing with someone who won't listen.
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Old 01-04-2005, 07:56 AM
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So you are saying Zormites have no right to change to fish because they have been humans for years, however their change to humans is justified though zormite rped as fish for years ?

What ?
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2005, 08:43 AM
busyrobot busyrobot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nappa
So you are saying Zormites have no right to change to fish because they have been humans for years, however their change to humans is justified though zormite rped as fish for years ?

What ?
No, ultimately that would be up to them - their choice. I stated that clearly a few times. If they want to become fish, that would be fine by me, I would hope they would have a good RP backstory for it. It would bother me if they rewrote their history, either to say they always were fish, or that they conquered and ruled dustari for a hundred years, since that wasn't played out and goes against the large trends of the history. And yes, you can argue zormite did just that when they 'went human' at the start of the new server, but forcing reversion now would destroy more history than ever existed on 2k1, and is hardly a fitting 'penalty' for something that happened years ago.
Of course, if they did choose to rewrite their history, its up to stefan and unixmad if it would be allowable, not me.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2005, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
No, ultimately that would be up to them - their choice. I stated that clearly a few times. If they want to become fish, that would be fine by me, I would hope they would have a good RP backstory for it. It would bother me if they rewrote their history, either to say they always were fish, or that they conquered and ruled dustari for a hundred years, since that wasn't played out and goes against the large trends of the history. And yes, you can argue zormite did just that when they 'went human' at the start of the new server, but forcing reversion now would destroy more history than ever existed on 2k1, and is hardly a fitting 'penalty' for something that happened years ago.
Of course, if they did choose to rewrite their history, its up to stefan and unixmad if it would be allowable, not me.

How the hell are you going to tell me this ? Their was more rp in one week on 2k1 then their has been on the entire history of GK. Your thinking G2k1 was just a miniscule event but it wasn't. It is the entire history of these kingdoms, and to just ignore their history like it never existed is just plain stupid.
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Old 01-04-2005, 11:38 PM
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And here is the thing. Lets see there are WOW THREE ENTIRE HUMAN KINGDOMS. OMG! THAT MEANS WE NEED ANOTHER LAWLZ.

If a person wants to rolplay as a Human he can be a Samurai, Knight, or even a Pirate. Hell, if that person wanted to roleplay in an ancient sense he could join Forest.

But no, we have to ruin one of the most sacred of all of Graal's traditions with crappy excuses to retain power.

But here is the thing, they did rewrite their history. Personally that's bull****. I guess if America turns into a Communist state then we can just rewrite American history to have Comrade Washington destroy the bastard British because of the capitalist taxes. But no, that's now how it happened.

I can perfectly understand if they name their kingdom into something else. That's fine, here is where the problem lies. They call themselves Zormites when they're not. No roleplaying story in the galaxy can mask why they carry the name Zormite. No roleplaying story in the galaxy can explain how they turned into humans in a single day.

So this is how Zormite solves it's problems
Dictatress Aki whatever (Archist Republic)
OH MY DEAR LORD, ZURKIBA IS A GENIUS BECAUSE HE JUST FIGURED OUT HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

But NO, that wont happen. Because the people are too damn ignorance, arrogant, and hardheaded.

So this is what you do, rename the adjective before the Republic right. Then you can be all 100% human for all I care. It'll be easier to roleplay that way.

We cant erase history, yes this is true. But the thing is that the history you reffer to never happened. It would be the same as if I said last year I conquered the world. People can play along with it, but did I conquer the world? no
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  #9  
Old 01-05-2005, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
We cant erase history, yes this is true. But the thing is that the history you reffer to never happened. It would be the same as if I said last year I conquered the world. People can play along with it, but did I conquer the world? no
The history I refer to is the history of the zormite republic, and it did happen as has been etched in the ones and zeros of the graal universe for quite some time. You can't say it "didn't happen" in some abstract sense, when in a literal sense, it did.

No matter how 'wrong' it was or how much you blame stefan/unixmad/whoever for turning zormite into humans 'in a day' it happened, literally ages ago. The point of an RP server is for everyone to have fun RPing in the best way the server allows, not enshrine a make believe race. So you and Nappa consider yourselves the parents of Zormite, and it grew up and left home and didn't turn out the way you wanted - but that's life, you don't get to kill the kid if he doesn't want to change his first name.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nappa
How the hell are you going to tell me this ? Their was more rp in one week on 2k1 then their has been on the entire history of GK. Your thinking G2k1 was just a miniscule event but it wasn't. It is the entire history of these kingdoms, and to just ignore their history like it never existed is just plain stupid.
Check the dates, 2k2 has been active way longer than 2k1. You are back to making dumb engrandizing statements agian, there was not more rping in one week of 2k1 than in the history of GK. But heck, you would have us believe that the entire history of GK is 'invalid' because Zormite didn't turn out the way you wanted.
I am speaking in 'literal time' not 'make believe' time where you can dismiss the entire 2k2 server's entire history because zormite wasn't 'perfect' enough for you in its implementation there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoZelda
Wait, let me get this straight.
You say we should suggest ways to improve RPing in this thread.
You say that 2k1 has no relevance to GK.
You see an admittence of your right as an attack.
You somehow keep arguing against three others, but assume you still haven't been proved wrong.
You are the one entrenched in your own views
What happened to you? Before you were a kingdom leader you were teh l33t.
Yes
No
Huh? What does that supposed to mean?
They are wrong, and if you want to 'prove' I am wrong you need to use facts and logic. I still say, since A) fun is #1 priority of a game (with RPing a close second) and B) you can have fun and RP in the present C) you can't RP in the past D) if you are going to 'break' the RP history, the present is more important than the past, as in how to best serve A, given the facts of B and C. Add to that, the issue of who has the right to mess up another kingdom unilaterally...and I think my logic is pretty clear.
I have strong convictions, but they are very open to refinement. All I require is sound logic.
I changed? ;_; lol, I am the same
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2005, 11:50 PM
Evil_Trunks Evil_Trunks is offline
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I have always thought this was a great quote, taken from Ziro's signature, of course.

<taken off AIM, Ryan W referring to Zormite on GK after I told him why they're not a fish-like race anymore>
Freak0102: That's like the new Governor of CP saying "I don't really like pirates since GK doesn't have eye patches and stuff, so let's be guys who think pirates are cool instead"

Edit: Darn! I'm way too late. Posted on page 4.
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  #11  
Old 01-05-2005, 04:47 AM
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Well, now I'm getting pissed.


Padren, you weren't around for 2k1 and have absolutely no right to badmouth it or even compare it to the hellhole known as GK. To be quite honest with you if the 2k1 leaders were placed as leaders on GK I believe roleplaying could happen. Now, *****s run kingdoms, inactive leaders run kingdoms, or as in forest's case noone runs it. I am not going to sit around here and let you talk **** on the greatest server in graal history. How about you convince Zoe to give her spot to Zurk, Nay to give her spot to someone jesus anyone, get GP back for pirates. For god's sake I dont even know who runs those group of *****s. I am getting pissed GK is a pisstent and it cant call itself an rp server anymore.
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  #12  
Old 01-05-2005, 07:58 AM
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Their is nothing more I can add, because we've already proven Padren to be a fool so many times. I'd just like to say give up already. God.
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Old 01-05-2005, 10:20 AM
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First of all Brad, I never said anything bad about 2k1. If I recall, GP was asked to come back and didn't want to, Zurk has even said he doesn't want to lead a kingdom, which is for the best, he isn't really up on modern GK history.

Second, Zurk, if the kid turns out black, the kid turns out black, you don't kill the kid and try again x.X

You'll notice I said, 'roleplaying' is a close second on the list of priorities, only after having fun. Don't play straw man games with me as if I suggested GK should be a PK server.
Anytime Nappa has actually made a point I have responded to it with reasoned arguments. If he is capable of debating them then he should.

It can be summed up very simply:

Zormite: Fish heads vs Humans
NPC Code:
  Fishhead pros:                          |   Human cons:
1) consistent with old 2k1 history | inconsitent with old 2k1 history
2) increased diversity | less diversity

Fishhead cons: Human pros:
1) inconsistent with all 2k2 history | consistent with all GK RP history
2) restrictive and limiting | offers more options
3) people of Zormite don't want it | people of Zormite want it
4) distruptive - forces a 'fake' history | GK can continue to operate and grow




Pros: An element of 2k1 history is revived, and it increases diversity among the kingdoms.
Cons: It restricts zormite, reducing their flexibility. It is also not wanted by zormite, and if a kingdom is active and RPs, huge changes should not be forced on it for any reason. It is also at the expense of the current 2k2 setting - no matter how you cut it, you can't keep 2k2's history and make such a radical change that cuts to the very first days of GK.

If all you want GK to be, is a shrine dedicated to 2k1, it makes sense, but if you want an RP server, you can't just make changes like that. A handful of people who barely even play GK can say 'its always been fish' reality clearly differs, everyone who plays GK *knows* Zormite is human and has been for its entire history of GK.
Its a matter of priorities. For some reason, being 'a little more like 2k1' is more important to some people than all of GK's history. Brad and Nappa sure made their feelings clear on that topic. But if people actually want to make GK better you need to improve it from this point forward - not backward. You don't need 'fish people' in Zormite to RP, and they have been doing fine without it.

Your positions are correct for your priorities, but your priorities are out of synch of GK players, and the entire server as a whole. You can badmouth GK if you want, but it is the current dominate RP server, and while it needs work nothing is getting done by us bickering. Add to kingdoms going forward, but don't erase what it is in a vain attempt to recapture some part of the past.


If you can't debate, then there is really no point to this discussion. You are more interested in thinking you are right than listening to reason. I think though, it really boils down to priorities, and I think yours are out of synch with what is healthy for GK, as well as out of synch with the roleplaying players of GK as well.
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2005, 08:08 PM
Zurkiba Zurkiba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
First of all Brad, I never said anything bad about 2k1. If I recall, GP was asked to come back and didn't want to, Zurk has even said he doesn't want to lead a kingdom, which is for the best, he isn't really up on modern GK history.

Second, Zurk, if the kid turns out black, the kid turns out black, you don't kill the kid and try again x.X

You'll notice I said, 'roleplaying' is a close second on the list of priorities, only after having fun. Don't play straw man games with me as if I suggested GK should be a PK server.
Anytime Nappa has actually made a point I have responded to it with reasoned arguments. If he is capable of debating them then he should.

It can be summed up very simply:

Zormite: Fish heads vs Humans
NPC Code:
  Fishhead pros:                          |   Human cons:
1) consistent with old 2k1 history | inconsitent with old 2k1 history
2) increased diversity | less diversity

Fishhead cons: Human pros:
1) inconsistent with all 2k2 history | consistent with all GK RP history
2) restrictive and limiting | offers more options
3) people of Zormite don't want it | people of Zormite want it
4) distruptive - forces a 'fake' history | GK can continue to operate and grow




Pros: An element of 2k1 history is revived, and it increases diversity among the kingdoms.
Cons: It restricts zormite, reducing their flexibility. It is also not wanted by zormite, and if a kingdom is active and RPs, huge changes should not be forced on it for any reason. It is also at the expense of the current 2k2 setting - no matter how you cut it, you can't keep 2k2's history and make such a radical change that cuts to the very first days of GK.

If all you want GK to be, is a shrine dedicated to 2k1, it makes sense, but if you want an RP server, you can't just make changes like that. A handful of people who barely even play GK can say 'its always been fish' reality clearly differs, everyone who plays GK *knows* Zormite is human and has been for its entire history of GK.
Its a matter of priorities. For some reason, being 'a little more like 2k1' is more important to some people than all of GK's history. Brad and Nappa sure made their feelings clear on that topic. But if people actually want to make GK better you need to improve it from this point forward - not backward. You don't need 'fish people' in Zormite to RP, and they have been doing fine without it.

Your positions are correct for your priorities, but your priorities are out of synch of GK players, and the entire server as a whole. You can badmouth GK if you want, but it is the current dominate RP server, and while it needs work nothing is getting done by us bickering. Add to kingdoms going forward, but don't erase what it is in a vain attempt to recapture some part of the past.


If you can't debate, then there is really no point to this discussion. You are more interested in thinking you are right than listening to reason. I think though, it really boils down to priorities, and I think yours are out of synch with what is healthy for GK, as well as out of synch with the roleplaying players of GK as well.
If Graal Kingdoms was meant to just be 'fun' then it would be called Graal FUNSERVERLAWLZ. But It's not. Graal Kingdoms was made for one purpose, roleplaying.

I've redone your little "chart"
ZORMITE pros:
Consistent with 2k1 History
Increased diversity
Awesome roleplaying experience
Kingdom uniqueness
Relation to the past
Goes along with the official storyline.

ZORMITE cons:
You're not human (if you consider this a con)

---

You have ignored everything I've said, everything anyone else had said, and continue to go against what we've said to prove us wrong when you have already been proven wrong. Examples? If they can ignore 2k1 history then I can ignore their 'history'.

Recapture the past? Hardly. If I take Shakesphere and change all the names of the male protagonists to Zurkiba then that's just fine and dandy right? Well it's not. And if I did that then people would be pissed off at me.
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Old 01-06-2005, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
If Graal Kingdoms was meant to just be 'fun' then it would be called Graal FUNSERVERLAWLZ. But It's not. Graal Kingdoms was made for one purpose, roleplaying.
Roleplaying was made for one purpose - having fun.

Stop acting like I am against RPing in some way, I again state, I never once suggested sacrificing RPing for fun. Simply, that RPing needs to be fun or there is no point to an RP server.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
I've redone your little "chart"
ZORMITE pros:
Consistent with 2k1 History
Increased diversity
Awesome roleplaying experience
Kingdom uniqueness
Relation to the past
Goes along with the official storyline.

ZORMITE cons:
You're not human (if you consider this a con)
Pros 1 and 5 are the same, but you forget that to tie to the distant past, you have to break the connection to the recent past, which is of more Relavent to GK.
It would be nice to stick to the 'official storyline' but the entire history of Gk has not, and when it comes down to supporting the original story vs. having the GK server's last several years of history make sense, I strongly feel the second is far more important.

Also, as for 'Awesome roleplaying experience' if you implement the old style of zormite you limit their range dramatically. If they are human haters, they can't interact with other kingdoms at all other than in conflicts, which can't work on the server now anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
---

You have ignored everything I've said, everything anyone else had said, and continue to go against what we've said to prove us wrong when you have already been proven wrong. Examples? If they can ignore 2k1 history then I can ignore their 'history'.
I have pointed out how that logic is wrong more than once Zurk. The question is not if they can just up and choose to ignore a major part of history, but do they have the right to continue their current history, given that several years ago, when GK was first created, zormite broke from 2k1 history.
If as of yesterday, Zormite followed a 2k1 style storyline, and wanted to change their history to say they were always human, I would probably be on your side. However, that change occured a long long time ago - at the very start of GK. You have to break all history between then and now, in order to revert to a fish based zormite. It becomes an issue of what is more relevant, the way things were many, many years ago or the way things are now. I strongly argue, we should build on GK, and not just wipe it away over a characteristic that ceased to exist many years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
Recapture the past? Hardly. If I take Shakesphere and change all the names of the male protagonists to Zurkiba then that's just fine and dandy right? Well it's not. And if I did that then people would be pissed off at me.
That is a bad example, you are talking about changing a widely printed series of works. You can do it to your own copies for sure, as copyright laws for works as old as Shakespeare place them effectively in the public domain.

On the flip side, if you found an old manuscript, that offered an alternate ending to romeo and juliet that he had written, you could not 'demand' everyone discard the normal version of that play.

Now........the fact you chose to wipe the list of cons about changing zormite to fish people, gives me the impression you just don't care about those impacts. You don't care about the negative impact on 2k2 history, or that the people of zormite don't want changed, or how much it would disrupt the 2k2 server to wipe a long standing kingdom and replace it with some other version.
Granted, you can have your own priorities for sure, but if they don't reflect what other people want, you should not expect others to readily adopt your ideas, or agree with your views.

When you say you have said what 'everyone else has said' remember that the majority of GK is not interested in enacting your ideas for Zormite, and the members of Zormite surely are not interested at all.
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Old 01-08-2005, 07:52 PM
GoZelda GoZelda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
Roleplaying was made for one purpose - having fun.
Roleplaying wasn't 'made'... And I doubt that the origins were solely 'made' for fun.
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Old 01-09-2005, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoZelda
Roleplaying wasn't 'made'... And I doubt that the origins were solely 'made' for fun.
Uh, roleplaying was made as a form of entertainment, its a form of immersive dynamic storytelling. But do tell, what factors of roleplaying are more important than having fun? If you just have fun doing whatever and don't follow any rp rules, well of course that's not RPing, but when it comes to RPing, what is more important than having fun while you are rping?
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Old 01-09-2005, 03:22 AM
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If the majority of RPers are humans that would hate Zormites for being another race, why haven't they jumped up and slaughtered the infidel Elves of the Forest?
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Old 01-09-2005, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GryffonDurime
If the majority of RPers are humans that would hate Zormites for being another race, why haven't they jumped up and slaughtered the infidel Elves of the Forest?
I missed that - why would the human's hate zormites for being another race?

If zormites were human hating and genocidal then it would be cause for concern. My problem with them reverting to fish now is that it would undo GK history retroactively, which whether sad or not, is the only rp history we've been building for the last few years.
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Old 01-09-2005, 08:54 AM
Zurkiba Zurkiba is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
I missed that - why would the human's hate zormites for being another race?

If zormites were human hating and genocidal then it would be cause for concern. My problem with them reverting to fish now is that it would undo GK history retroactively, which whether sad or not, is the only rp history we've been building for the last few years.
And you step on your own feet here!
You fail to listen to me -_-

Just as we cant forget 2k2 history, they cant forget 2k1 history. And according to the timeline 2k1 set about there is no Zormite Republic.

So this is what you do. You rename it! GASP! The Zormites established a colony on an island but a tribe of primative humans attacked the settlements and the Zormites gave up on colonizing it.
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Old 01-10-2005, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Zurkiba
And you step on your own feet here!
You fail to listen to me -_-

Just as we cant forget 2k2 history, they cant forget 2k1 history. And according to the timeline 2k1 set about there is no Zormite Republic.
As you said yourself, the two histories are inconsistant with each other. Since 2k2 history is far more relevant (it is contemporary, is played, and is directly tied to the active server), it takes priority, naturally.
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  #22  
Old 01-10-2005, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by busyrobot
As you said yourself, the two histories are inconsistant with each other. Since 2k2 history is far more relevant (it is contemporary, is played, and is directly tied to the active server), it takes priority, naturally.
No, no it doesn't...
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Old 01-11-2005, 11:08 PM
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I'd just like to state the following:
On 2k1, the Zormites hated humans. Correct?
So, when they got blasted away from 2k1 and had to sail to some stupid island, they ofcourse still hated the humans - the moon probably was their fault somehow.
So, when some settlers come on their island, they're just gonna take it?
Like wtf. Even if you don't hate a certain race you won't just let them take your ground. The Zormites would have to be slaughtered, or the humans.
So, if the Zormites won, how the bloody hell comes they aren't fishes?
So, if the humans won, how the bloody hell comes they're call themselves Zormites?

There. Go write a new pathetic attempt at covering up your kingdom's ineptitude at RPing.
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Old 01-12-2005, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by GoZelda
So, when they got blasted away from 2k1 and had to sail to some stupid island, they ofcourse still hated the humans - the moon probably was their fault somehow.
Techincally the Zormites never left the 2k1 island. They were the only kingdom to remain behind, they did establish a small colony though. Then the metor hit and communications were lost for a short time.
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Old 01-13-2005, 01:50 AM
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Could u Guys Stop?
Im Not Going to Read this anymore -_-
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Old 01-13-2005, 03:37 AM
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Could u Guys Stop?
Im Not Going to Read this anymore -_-
Noones forcing you to read anything. Go to another forum if you don't want to read it.
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Old 01-14-2005, 05:00 AM
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Zurkiba himself helped me form a logical bridge between 2k1 and 2k2's history gap. I read a thread a long time ago, I believe in the 2k1 forum, and used what happened on 2k2 to help explain the new state of a kingdom on 2k1 when that server was to be revived. He said "until the rise of the Archist Party".

So, anyways, I think the histories are easily connected. The way in which we retell history about these servers is not that we make it up as we go. But rather, we take the events that actually happened, and add background to it based around those events, so that the true history can be retold as a good story. That is of course, the goal.

So, when I read that, it made me think. And I believe I have a great way to link the histories and explain the situation of 2k2's Zormite, while still being true to the histories that actually happened.

Near the end of the 2k1 era, a meteorite came crashing down, killing many and throwing the human kingdoms into disarray. The Dustarian kingdom was most affected, as that was the site of impact, while the Zormite kingdom was least affected, as they had the water to retreat to, etc.

So, groups of humans left their old home which was still very much in chaos and ruin, with the intention of colonizing a new group of islands. The Zormite kingdom, with their own interests in mind, obviously wanted a foothold of their own in this new region, having the most population to spare and of course not wanting to be at some sort of disadvantage in the future. So, even though they were least needing, a group of Zormites were dispatched and settled in the North Western area of the new region.

All of the colonies were very distant from their homeland, and communication between the old and new worlds were few and far between. The Zormite colony was originally set up to mirror the government of its homeland, with an appointed Regent at its head.

The conflicts and tensions of the old world were not that of the new world. The colonials had no reason to bicker between one another on behalf of their motherland. Even if a kingdom was at war with another, the colonies would have no way of knowing it. As a result, the Zormite and Dustarian colonies formed warm diplomatic relations which survived throughout most of 2k2's history.

Also, since there was originally 4 human colonies and 1 zormite colony, with time the pace of procreation of the human race outmatched that of the zormite race by far. The zormite colony was finding it difficult to maintain itself and began to worry about defense issues being so sparsely populated in contrast to all other colonies. With this in mind, the Zormites of the colony saw little reason to hold steadfast to their archaic xenophobic principles. Instead, they chose to allow humans to settle on their island, have families, fill the gaps, and be integrated into colonial Zormite society.

The first zormite appointed to govern the colony by the homeland, was Hippie. He oversaw the colony's early development, but was quickly replaced. A replacement was sent from the homeland before Hippie was even able to officially take the title of Regent. It was thought that the mood back in the old world had changed suddenly, and the leadership felt that more of a hardliner was necessary to run the colony. Torkanansu was their answer.

He often left management of the kingdom to others, and retreated to his villa and enjoyed the fruits of his position. His power, and the absence of a superior watching over him regularly, got to his head, and began to disregard the wants and needs of the colony's people. During Torkanansu's reign, was also the time in which humans were allowed to come to the island and settle. They were already beginning to gain a significant voice within the colony.

One, Zen Archigos, formerly captain of the Santa Maria, settled on the Zormite island when the ban on immigration was lifted. He made a modest living serving as the colony's ambassador in its early days, which was naturally given to him even though being a Human, because no zormites had adventured far off of the island, and this Zen Archigos had extensive knowledge of the waters and lands of the new world (having been a sea captain, and all).

The Regent Torkanansu elevated Zen Archigos's status from ambassador to Elder, having proven his loyalty with earlier service to the government, and needing a representative of the human population in his colonial government. After this point, there was 2 Elders, one Human and one Zormite. However, when the Elder representing the Zormite population fell ill and died, Torkanansu saw little reason to replace him, being a zormite himself, and not trusting many others to begin with.

A popular rebellion sparked later, as a result of Regent Torkanansu's continued distaste for becoming involved with the day-to-day dealings of government. The figurehead representing the Zormite motherland was dethroned. Zormites and Humans alike rallied together removing Torkanansu from power. The rebellion, of course, got out of hand, all realized that their actions constituted war against an established power of the old world, and the human populations started accusing zormites of being loyalists. The zormite's decision to lay down their xenophobic ways ultimately backfired, as the humans they accepted into their realm became xenophobic themselves, fearing that zormite citizens might attempt to send word to the homeland of what had taken place. So, a slaughtering of zormites took place in the absence of a governing authority. Within days of Torkanansu being thrown off of the island, genocide was taking place. The new human majority feared a retaliation by the Zormite homeland before getting a chance to organize a defensive force to counter it. As a result, a minority of those humans systematically wiped many of them out before the new governing authority was able to set up a militia and cease the practice.

Zen Archigos, took the title of emperor, and attempted to preserve the traditions and culture that the humans of the island had been assimilated into over the years. At first, his new government mirrored that of the style in which the Zormite hierarchy operated within. Humans found guilty of the genocide, where executed, and those found aiding in the practice were imprisoned. The remaining Zormite population was not allowed to leave the island for some time, largely forced into house arrest in most instances, until the threat of being easily reconquered dwindled.

Zen Archigos established his bloodline as a new line of nobility, and sought to maintain that his royal bloodline would continue to govern this new Zormite "kingdom". He continued to rule the island under a monarchial system until unrest grew to such a point that he willingly allowed for a constitution to be drawn up and withdrew his mandate to rule. The National Archist Party of Zormite (NAPZ) took the reigns from this point onward, and established itself as the only legal political party within the new republic. Zen Archigos managed to regain power due to popularity and the fact that the Archist party was a group of loyalist citizens, who sought to put the royal Archigos bloodline back in power, even without the former mandate that name once carried.

In Zen Archigos's early days as a sea captain aboard the Santa Maria, he dropped anchor in Dustari many times, having spent most of his sailing time in the region of ocean between the Zormite and Dustarian islands. It was later discovered that a lady he had a short romance with on the Dustarian island was a Sagesun, and had given birth to a daughter out of wedlock. The Archist Party jumped at this opportunity, and made arrangements to have this Wren Sagesun "Archigos" come to the Zormite island and become involved with its government, so that when Zen's time to step down came, the Archist party could form a more permanent union with their closest ally in the new world (Dustari) and at the same time keeping true to their loyalist principles.

I could have filled in more at the end but this is getting long and the primary objective was to link 2k1 and 2k2, not explain -everything-. Thats the official history that I will be sticking to.
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Old 01-14-2005, 06:03 AM
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Nice story, doesn't explain the fact that they'd keep the Zormite name and how the people would be assimiliated into the culture after like 5-20 years or what ever. How come the Zormites aren't a mix of Samurai, Dustari, and Pirates?

How come the humans wouldn't have elfs as workers too?
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Old 01-14-2005, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
Nice story, doesn't explain the fact that they'd keep the Zormite name and how the people would be assimiliated into the culture after like 5-20 years or what ever. How come the Zormites aren't a mix of Samurai, Dustari, and Pirates?

How come the humans wouldn't have elfs as workers too?
Not sure about what the official explination is, but there are lots of very good possible reasons.


For example, it is actually very common, that when people of lesser development (often illiterate, poor farming techniques, etc) are drawn into a rich and more educated culture, they very quickly adopt to many of those cultural elements - specifically the ones that increase their ability to live well.
It is quite plausable that in one generation (20 years is a modern generation, but in ancient times people had children certianly by 15) human children will have been taught to read and write zormite as their first language, and the zormite religions would often have appeal as it would be the religions of their great benefactors. Going from such a low level of society to a much better one would likely give the humans reason to take pride in being part of zormite, and even if many of the humans engaged in the bloodier parts of the revolution, the nation as a whole would not specifically just abandon the old name.
It wouldn't be the most affluent humans of the lands that would have colonized on Zormite afterall.
France was not renamed during the French Revolution, so why should Zormite?

Anyway Zurk, why not be constructive and find solutions instead of problems with things like this - it solves that whole thing that bothered you so much about the historical split.
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Old 01-14-2005, 08:26 AM
LordZen LordZen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
Nice story, doesn't explain the fact that they'd keep the Zormite name and how the people would be assimiliated into the culture after like 5-20 years or what ever. How come the Zormites aren't a mix of Samurai, Dustari, and Pirates?

How come the humans wouldn't have elfs as workers too?
As written, it was the new emperor himself who took special care in preserving the traditions of the Zormite culture. So even if you do want to maintain that the humans did not accept the Zormite way of life after living that way of life exclusively for decades, then it could be argued that since the new ruler made special efforts to keep things more or less unchanged during the transition at first, the status quo was maintained and the populus was given just that much more time to "adopt" this way of life (which they had already grown acustomed to).

I beleive in the story, the Zormites lifted the ban on immigration of -humans-. Comeon, that was already a stretch considering their past, and humans were much more well known to zormites than some other smaller species which they woudl have had even less contact with. They decided to be less xenophobic..but they didnt let go of their preconvictions completely.

Besides, why would elves want to immigrate? There is not a big enough population of them to be scampering everywhere, either. If they even still exist on Forest.

Come to think of it, how do you explain the timeline of Forest? What happen to all of the elves during the reign of Astri? And how do you explain every single viking being wiped out and disappearing during the transition back to Forest?

Strange, it sounded like my story satisfied you before when I first told you it, because as you said then, its fine for Zormite to consist primarily of humans as long as there is still a few zormites around, because you objected to the idea of zormites completely disappearing, and wanted an explaination as to why the population diminished so badly.

Your complaint then was, there was never an explaination as to why humans took over.
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I heard they were pregnant from the same father from a VERY reliable tabloid a couple years ago.
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  #31  
Old 01-14-2005, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordZen
long story here
I don't understand. Zormites live hundreds of years AND have more babies then humans due to they lay eggs like fish. Why are they being outpaced by humans ?
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
Anyway Zurk, why not be constructive and find solutions instead of problems with things like this - it solves that whole thing that bothered you so much about the historical split.
READ MY DAMN POSTS DAMN IT. I've already given you an answer
Archigos Republic

---

Zen, you've changed your story since then.

I fail to understand why you want Zormite to be a human kingdom. 'Because people want to rp as a human'? Well they can join Samurai, Dustari, or Pirates.

A teacher once told me that the only constant of the universe is truth. Which is why I say that Padren is wrong. But Padren has failed to understand this.

The whole arguement isn't why aren't there Zormites on 2k2. Far from it. It's why are you calling people Zormites when they're not. 2k2 has taken one of the best organized and played traditions of Graal and taken a big stinking crap on it. Why's that?

What's so hard about just renaming it to the Archigos Republic? It fits the theme.

If the current Zormites are following the 'old' traditions then how come they're not following the traditions of the Zaeri? Not to mention, the Zormite Fascism has already denounced the previous history.

The elfs are plenty, before the kingdoms took their colonies the elf peoples owned the six islands.

As stated in previous roleplayings the Elfs were enslaved and/or jailed. Most were killed in the prisons. Samurai later attacked Astri and found a single jail with some elven within. They were set free while the Astrians died in a last stand and Erik killed himself.
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Old 01-14-2005, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
READ MY DAMN POSTS DAMN IT. I've already given you an answer
Archigos Republic
You have given no historical reason why a nation known as the Zormite Republic would suddenly change their name to the Archigos Republic, it seems they've liked their name so far, why change now? That would be ignoring the truth of the name they have held for all of GK.

A teacher once told me that the only constant of the universe is truth. Which is why I say that you are wrong. But you have failed to understand this.
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
I fail to understand why you want Zormite to be a human kingdom. 'Because people want to rp as a human'? Well they can join Samurai, Dustari, or Pirates.
Who are you to tell people they can't be human in Zormite? Zormite has had humans for years - and thats the truth, which is the only constant of the universe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
The whole arguement isn't why aren't there Zormites on 2k2. Far from it. It's why are you calling people Zormites when they're not. 2k2 has taken one of the best organized and played traditions of Graal and taken a big stinking crap on it. Why's that?
Meh, honestly the old zormite doesn't sound that interesting, I mean, come on, if you want to play with any of your friends or trade etc, you have to be ooc or kill their human butts. How can you have a xenophobic race in a game where all trade and resources are gathered in one giant middle island?

Of course, if they were that way on 2k2 from the beginning, I would be defending their right to be that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
What's so hard about just renaming it to the Archigos Republic? It fits the theme.
Not really, they are kinda proud of being zormites actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
If the current Zormites are following the 'old' traditions then how come they're not following the traditions of the Zaeri? Not to mention, the Zormite Fascism has already denounced the previous history.
We could bicker down the details to the point of explaining every little nuance in a satisfactory way, at which point you'll ask why so and so had oatmeal for breakfast when bacon and eggs were so common.

The real question is where do you get off being judge and jury? We are just humoring you afterall. My point is that every single question you are asking is about the details of evolution zormite culture, but not one of your questions actually challanging the plausability, which is your intention. You hope that no plausable explaination is possible, and somehow, boom, zormite will become fish people or change their name. Your line of questioning has ceased to challange the plausability though, so I think you are more or less filibustering at this point (based on your use of that word).
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  #34  
Old 01-14-2005, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
You have given no historical reason why a nation known as the Zormite Republic would suddenly change their name to the Archigos Republic, it seems they've liked their name so far, why change now? That would be ignoring the truth of the name they have held for all of GK.
I have too given you reason, they were built on misinformation and I were to write a book about RPing on 2k2 I wouldn't have Soldier selling newbs of (Dustari) screaming 'ne1 gotz a swerd be +6?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
Who are you to tell people they can't be human in Zormite? Zormite has had humans for years - and thats the truth, which is the only constant of the universe.
That's your flaw, Zormites AREN'T HUMANS!
You failed to understand the quote -_-

Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
Meh, honestly the old zormite doesn't sound that interesting, I mean, come on, if you want to play with any of your friends or trade etc, you have to be ooc or kill their human butts. How can you have a xenophobic race in a game where all trade and resources are gathered in one giant middle island?
Yeah, because we know to make things more interesting we add a human nation which is almost exactly like Dustari only we change the rank names. So instead of kingdoms that are unique we have just one kind of kingdom. OH MY DEAR LORD THE FUN INSUES.

Outside relations were allowed when the circimstances allowed (eg: Dustari Conquest of Zormite, Zormite conquest of Samurai). But no Human would be allowed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
Of course, if they were that way on 2k2 from the beginning, I would be defending their right to be that way.
According to Zen's storyline it was. And according to Zen it's the 'official story'

Quote:
Originally Posted by busyrobot
Not really, they are kinda proud of being zormites actually.
Kind of like how people in Siberia can be proud of being Martian right? I would agree with you if they were Zormites. But they're not.

A tulip is NOT a rose no matter how long you look at it.
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Old 01-15-2005, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nappa
I don't understand. Zormites live hundreds of years AND have more babies then humans due to they lay eggs like fish. Why are they being outpaced by humans ?
If this is the case, Nappa, then explain why the Zormite race stayed in the minority vs the human race throughout the entire history of 2k1? 10 eggs does not garauntee 10 children, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
Zen, you've changed your story since then.
And what, pray tell, have I changed since then which has caused your newfound dislike for that presented line of history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
That's your flaw, Zormites AREN'T HUMANS!
You failed to understand the quote -_-
He is obviously refering to Zormite as a nation, not an ethnicity. But aside from that, I do not understand, you have even said yourself that humans were in Zormite in 2k1.

It really sounds to me like you are the one changing your story. This Archigos Republic idea is completely new, and you told me yourself that it was fine to call it Zormite as long as the storyline supported even only a few zormite people to still have survived. Your whole issue, a couple weeks ago, was that the zormites just disappeared and a proper acceptable explaination was never presented. Your position was previously, a Human majority in 2k2 Zormite was O.K.
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I heard they were pregnant from the same father from a VERY reliable tabloid a couple years ago.
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  #36  
Old 01-15-2005, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordZen
If this is the case, Nappa, then explain why the Zormite race stayed in the minority vs the human race throughout the entire history of 2k1? 10 eggs does not garauntee 10 children, either.
Because their was no reason to multiply their race. More people would require more people to feed, more expenses, etc.. So the people purposely didn't mate that often.

Why praytell don't humans have a baby every year in real life ? The same reasons.

However in the need of more zormites to preserve their way of life, I'm sure they would mate.

And as for humans being in Zormite and 2k1, either you read wrong or someone lied to you. We have said that their were none.
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Old 01-15-2005, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordZen
If this is the case, Nappa, then explain why the Zormite race stayed in the minority vs the human race throughout the entire history of 2k1? 10 eggs does not garauntee 10 children, either.
With each kingdom comes an invisible kingdom. It's similiar to how Dustari continues to grow yet there may only be three females in the kingdom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordZen
And what, pray tell, have I changed since then which has caused your newfound dislike for that presented line of history?
I dont dislike it, It could work but there are still flaws in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordZen
He is obviously refering to Zormite as a nation, not an ethnicity. But aside from that, I do not understand, you have even said yourself that humans were in Zormite in 2k1.
That's a negative. No Humans have been in Zormite. The closest thing was a Dustarian Governor, who didn't even get actual power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordZen
It really sounds to me like you are the one changing your story. This Archigos Republic idea is completely new, and you told me yourself that it was fine to call it Zormite as long as the storyline supported even only a few zormite people to still have survived. Your whole issue, a couple weeks ago, was that the zormites just disappeared and a proper acceptable explaination was never presented. Your position was previously, a Human majority in 2k2 Zormite was O.K.
Granted, a few Zormits would be fine. It would actually support your storyline. But right now you have a storyline in which a person could just easily say *kills all humans with uber magic*, it has flaws.

But the fact is why in the hell would they have a second Zormite nation when it isn't really Zormite?

Last question: Why are you so intent on wanting Zormites to be human?
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  #38  
Old 01-15-2005, 07:53 AM
LordZen LordZen is offline
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Some humans do have babies every year, consecutively for a while. lol

But here, how about this, Nappa, because the new Zormite colony was primarily set up because it was viewed as a strategic nessesity, most of the original colonizers were trained soldiers, males. And the few females that came along did not much like the idea of whoring themselves. Wow, that was hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zurkiba
I dont dislike it, It could work but there are still flaws in it.
You claimed I had made changes in the story which changed your opinion about it. I asked you what they were.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
I heard they were pregnant from the same father from a VERY reliable tabloid a couple years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GryffonDurime
Etien, you are the best proof I have ever seen that the human gene pool has algee.
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  #39  
Old 01-15-2005, 09:02 PM
Nappa Nappa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordZen
Some humans do have babies every year, consecutively for a while. lol
Maybe in ethiopia, but Zormite Empirei isn't ethiopia.

Quote:
But here, how about this, Nappa, because the new Zormite colony was primarily set up because it was viewed as a strategic nessesity, most of the original colonizers were trained soldiers, males. And the few females that came along did not much like the idea of whoring themselves. Wow, that was hard.
So basically your saying this is not a colony or a kingdom like you originally said, but now your changing it into a military base. Which one is it ?
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Old 01-20-2005, 05:52 PM
LordZen LordZen is offline
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Ah, heh, I thought this thread was deleted. I was irritated for a while but got over it because I was glad I remembered to save my one long post to my Zormite folder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nappa
Maybe in ethiopia, but Zormite Empirei isn't ethiopia.
Lol, I meant that only jokingly. But it only takes 9 months to birth a child, so I was just saying there are some people that pop 'em out one after another. Not that its largescale, but just thats its easily possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nappa
So basically your saying this is not a colony or a kingdom like you originally said, but now your changing it into a military base. Which one is it ?
In the presented story the purpose of the colony was not to rebuild. It was not a nessisary move for the Zormite people. As it was plainly stated, they arranged for a colony in the new world strictly because they saw it as a strategic advantage.
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Quote:
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I heard they were pregnant from the same father from a VERY reliable tabloid a couple years ago.
Quote:
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Etien, you are the best proof I have ever seen that the human gene pool has algee.
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