Event Coin problem - Page 2

hampy · #1 02-23-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

This idea is getting good feedback. Although I can see Bjorn dismissing this idea for no reason at all.

If that does happen... we shall fight for our right, a better server to play on!
Although I don't see what there is to dismiss, I quote "brilliant idea" <-- couldn't put it better myself

Ravenblade1979 · #2 02-23-2007, 04:48 PM

The problem here is Bjorn. If he will accept it. So far anything that might help GK has been shot down.

Gothika · #3 02-23-2007, 05:16 PM

The disadvantages are few and small. And there an lots of great advantages.

Ravenblade1979 · #4 02-23-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

The disadvantages are few and small. And there an lots of great advantages.

Uh oh you said advantages. There goes the idea.

I want to see this one go through. Its a wicked idea.

Gothika · #5 02-23-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Uh oh you said advantages. There goes the idea.

I want to see this one go through. Its a wicked idea.

Yeah, not that I'm blowing my own trumpet. But I think this is one the best idea's in a long time.
Anyway. We can use this idea on WoD aswell.

CidNight1142 · #6 02-23-2007, 05:57 PM

*note - I stopped reading at around post 25

I kind of like the casino idea, it sounds fun. It would have to be very carefully scripted to avoid inflation/deflation issues. It would probably need a full time GP to make sure its running smoothly and without corruption as well.

Ravenblade1979 · #7 02-23-2007, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidNight1142

*note - I stopped reading at around post 25

I kind of like the casino idea, it sounds fun. It would have to be very carefully scripted to avoid inflation/deflation issues. It would probably need a full time GP to make sure its running smoothly and without corruption as well.

GP...thats a joke..only one left is Paul!o

hampy · #8 02-23-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidNight1142

*note - I stopped reading at around post 25

I kind of like the casino idea, it sounds fun. It would have to be very carefully scripted to avoid inflation/deflation issues. It would probably need a full time GP to make sure its running smoothly and without corruption as well.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure some logs could be set up to monitor whats going on, shouldn't be hard for someone to whizz through them to look for anything majorly out of the ordinary. (Happy b'day btw.

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

GP...thats a joke..only one left is Paul!o

Yeah, Paul won't be back for a while also... it seems as though the current GK Administration do not want to hire anymore GPs, I don't blame them though recent GPs imo have not been up to standard (Not meant towards anyone in particular, just as a whole)

dNeonb · #9 02-23-2007, 06:57 PM

We actually gave more coins out than in the beginning when we released them. Raven asked me for a bag-refill, one thing of the refill was 20 eventoins. 2 days later he told me he evented everything off. That would make 10 ec's a day just from him and not counting the other events masters and the stuff besides the eventcoins.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Its not that easy. YOu first have to be reccomended by Sam to I think Bjorn...then ((I think its bjorn))

Don't just guess and start rumors. You should know things if you post them. I have nothing to do with that for ages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Right now with Sam on vacation its hard to get a em bag refill.

Have a look at yourself, it's not my fault. I just do it like Sam. No list what the stuff we gave out was used for -> no new stuff. Next time think about what you complain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

The problem here is Bjorn. If he will accept it. So far anything that might help GK has been shot down.

I don't see how merging MMT and Bomboria trade helps GK

garglius1 · #10 02-23-2007, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dNeonb

I don't see how merging MMT and Bomboria trade helps GK

That would help GK short term, for a few weeks, there would be more ativity, then everything would go back to normal. A casino, on the other hand, would be when like alchemy came out. HUGE activity right at the beginning, then continuous activity forevermore. (Notice how many PMoPs, FHoMs, Marks are out there and DoV and DoPV recipes being made.) That was the last huge change the server got, other than magic, which didn't affect everything on as big a scale as alchemy. Time for something new and big!

hampy · #11 02-23-2007, 07:09 PM

Bjorn, what do you think about this idea of a Casino being added to GK then? As you can see there is a good amount of support for this idea

*wonders what Mr. Boss Man thinks*

Ravenblade1979 · #12 02-23-2007, 07:26 PM

Bjorn I am not gonna flame you here but I pm'd you my list of events that I did and who won as well as posted on the em forums. not my problem if you don't look. Well i already knew your answer on the MMT/Bomb trade thing Bjorn. YOu can't even upload a level in mmt that I made minor fixes too. thats why i pm'd stefan about my idea too. Something might actually happen. And I gave you at least 4 or 5 ideas what you could do with the building that bomb trade is in. I think the best is the Recipe Shop. And the ec's going in two days shows that I host.

Googi its a idea to say the least but I agree. The only thing thats gonna go up is plat...ppl will be buying that with dias and plat would be worth more, saphs will go up in price, carrots too and ppl will dopv like crazy. More then anything I think it will offset our current economy. I think just lowering the price of what costs what in the coin shop would do it.

dNeonb · #13 02-23-2007, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Bjorn I am not gonna flame you here but I pm'd you my list of events that I did and who won as well as posted on the em forums. not my problem if you don't look. Well i already knew your answer on the MMT/Bomb trade thing Bjorn. YOu can't even upload a level in mmt that I made minor fixes too. thats why i pm'd stefan about my idea too. Something might actually happen. And I gave you at least 4 or 5 ideas what you could do with the building that bomb trade is in. I think the best is the Recipe Shop. And the ec's going in two days shows that I host.

Reading the thread it's not only me who dislikes your idea about Bomb trade. No, I don't have your MMT level and I also got no pm with the list of events. But I read the thread yestrday and I'm not gonna post here what reading it tells me about what you said to me.

Ravenblade1979 · #14 02-23-2007, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dNeonb

Reading the thread it's not only me who dislikes your idea about Bomb trade. No, I don't have your MMT level and I also got no pm with the list of events. But I read the thread yestrday and I'm not gonna post here what reading it tells me about what you said to me.

I pm'd you on gk the list. its the same one as i posted on em forums. I sent you the MMT level twice now. Both times in a zip file. Look I want sam back he's easier to deal with then you Bjorn. I don't care if I get a refill. I will just keep hosting Bog Arena and let ppl kill themselves. I had one person be nice enough to give me two sacks of holding to event off. I will survive doing those and the mass amount of maps I got.

Ravenblade1979 · #15 02-23-2007, 08:24 PM

About my idea for trade...at least its a idea that would have been new and kept ppl's interest for a few weeks. All they do now is sit in trade and lame outside and when i host bog spar kill. What does that tell you about the current way this game is heading?

Earl_Having_It_Large · #16 02-23-2007, 10:47 PM

i fully support this idea about the Casino.. i think it would do great thinks for graal kingdoms! hope to see this idea put into the game

Gothika · #17 02-24-2007, 01:22 AM

Googi, your expecting people for every time they win 1. They loose 1. It is possible for people to win 10 times in a row.

Googi · #18 02-24-2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

Googi, your expecting people for every time they win 1. They loose 1. It is possible for people to win 10 times in a row.

It's possible for people to lose 10 times in a row and (in a 50/50 scenario) will happen on average the same number of times a person wins 10 times in a row. I'm talking about averages which are what's important when talking about what kind of influence this will have on the economy.

(The odds of losing or winning 10 times in a row in a 50/50 scenario, by the way, are 0.1%).

Ravenblade1979 · #19 02-24-2007, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

It's possible for people to lose 10 times in a row and (in a 50/50 scenario) will happen on average the same number of times a person wins 10 times in a row. I'm talking about averages which are what's important when talking about what kind of influence this will have on the economy.

(The odds of losing or winning 10 times in a row in a 50/50 scenario, by the way, are 0.1%).

Exactly how many casino games have you played? Out of 10 ppl I know only 1 has any luck getting 10 in a row. Myself out of 10 pulls on slots I will win maybe 2 or 3 times total.

Gothika · #20 02-24-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Exactly how many casino games have you played? Out of 10 ppl I know only 1 has any luck getting 10 in a row. Myself out of 10 pulls on slots I will win maybe 2 or 3 times total.

Yeah, that happens. Just because the odds are 50/50 it doesn't mean you win 1 you lose 1. It's still totally random.

Googi · #21 02-24-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Exactly how many casino games have you played? Out of 10 ppl I know only 1 has any luck getting 10 in a row. Myself out of 10 pulls on slots I will win maybe 2 or 3 times total.

So the probability probably wasn't 50/50?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

Yeah, that happens. Just because the odds are 50/50 it doesn't mean you win 1 you lose 1. It's still totally random.

It appears you don't understand statistics. Go to Wikipedia. Type in "law of averages" and read up. Try "law of large numbers" too if you think you're really cool.

hampy · #22 02-24-2007, 07:04 PM

Yeah, but I think what Googi is saying would be that if the odds were 50/50 then it would just spread the money around. Not necessarily to the same person though, e.g if 100,000 plat was gambled 100,000 plat will be given back out (If you understand what I mean) more like the money would get spread around between players which also isn't a bad thing+_+

Ravenblade1979 · #23 02-24-2007, 08:22 PM

No but they try to make things realistic on the game so they would have to do the same and again out of 10 spins you have only a 50% chance of winning. And there will be days when you don't win anything.

jonnyrocks2 · #24 02-24-2007, 09:13 PM

Well, really it depends on how they program it Googi, they may put the odds against the player, or for the player...just depends.

Googi · #25 02-24-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyrocks2

Well, really it depends on how they program it Googi, they may put the odds against the player, or for the player...just depends.

I dealt with this issue above. All that this would effect would be the conversion rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Amount of people using the machines, how much

I've said this. Even if one person plays only a few times an has an unlikely big win or big loss (in fact, if a lot of people play, it's statistically likely that a few people will win big or lose big), the total effect on the economy will be nearly identical to simply allowing people to convert plat to ECs directly at the consequent rate created by the machine's probability because total plays will probably easily be in excess of 1000.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

what the scripts or script will be doing. A lot more things need to be factored in then just one person.

You believe that it's possible to write a script that can't be reduced to a conversion rate? I'd like to see that.

Ravenblade1979 · #26 02-24-2007, 09:14 PM

Err still Googi there are a lot of other factors you have to add into all of this. Amount of people using the machines, how much, what the scripts or script will be doing. A lot more things need to be factored in then just one person.

Ravenblade1979 · #27 02-24-2007, 09:27 PM

Ok plain and simple have you included ALL variables before you started arguing about this. Its not as simple as you think.

Googi · #28 02-24-2007, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Ok plain and simple have you included ALL variables before you started arguing about this. Its not as simple as you think.

I'm using simplified models, but they're models that more complex models can be reduced to. For example, most slot machines don't work on the simple premise of win/lose. There are different degrees of winning/losing. For example, for a payment of 500 plat, the probabilities might look like this.

5% chance of 10000 tokens
10% chance of 3000 tokens
15% chance of 2000 tokens
20% chance of 1000 tokens
10% chance of 500 tokens
40% chance of 0 tokens

This requires us to use a different approach to the calculation of the conversion rate, but it's still not difficult to calculate.

For 1000 plays (they don't need to be 1000 plays made by the same person, just 1000 made between the entire playerbase)

Approximately 50 will be 10000 token wins. (Approx. 500,000 tokens)
Approximately 100 will be 3000 token wins. (Approx. 300,000 tokens)
Approximately 150 will be 2000 token wins. (Approx. 300,000 tokens)
Approximately 200 will be 1000 token wins. (Approx. 200,000 tokens)
Approximately 100 will be 500 token wins. (Approx. 50,000 tokens)
Approximately 400 will be 0 token wins. ("Approx." 0 tokens)

Total tokens won = approximately 1,350,000 tokens. Now, it's highly unlikely that exactly 1,350,000 tokens will be won, but almost completely certain that it will be a number very close to 1,350,000 (in terms of % deviance).

Assuming a conversion rate of 10,000 tokens = 1 EC, 1000 plays would add approximately 135 ECs into the economy (A conversion rate of 3703 plat = 1 EC). Though the conversion rate can easily be brought up to the "ideal" 10000 plat = 1 EC by making the token conversion rate 27005 tokens = 1 EC (in which case approximately 50 ECs would be added to the economy for 1000 plays/500,000 plat spent).

Ravenblade1979 · #29 02-24-2007, 09:29 PM

"Originally Posted by Gothika
Yeah, that happens. Just because the odds are 50/50 it doesn't mean you win 1 you lose 1. It's still totally random."

He hit it on the head Googi...there are so many things that you need to take into account. Not to mention they would have to make the script so perfect as to do your 50/50 thing. It will never work like that. Not in a hundred years.

hampy · #30 02-24-2007, 09:38 PM

If there is such a fuss about making it 50/50 why not make it 40/60? To make it harder to win, but large wins when you do win to make it worth the trouble :o Anyhow, bjorn didn't seem to reply to the idea x-x

hampy · #31 02-24-2007, 09:50 PM

The casino could be an event in its own right. Wouldn't need EMs to man the place, it could just run all the time, atleast this way ECs will be coming into the economy and will be a much more fair way, allowing all types of players to participate. I know for a fact that some time zones are never covered by EMs, this would allow the people who play at these times to actually have a chance :O /lecture

Ravenblade1979 · #32 02-24-2007, 10:02 PM

nice googi but i am still looking a bit realistically. you would have a lot of unlucky players.

Hampy I do agree and that would take away one of the prizes that em's give and they would probably include the rest thereby making em's obsolete. In its own rights a casino is cool but in another it would phase out the EM's altogether as ec's, gold keys, dias are just a few of the things we get to give out

Googi · #33 02-24-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

nice googi but i am still looking a bit realistically. you would have a lot of unlucky players.

Being highly lucky or highly unlucky would pretty much require you to play a low number of times. The more times you play, the more your results will come to reflect the probabilities programmed into the machine.

hampy · #34 02-24-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Being highly lucky or highly unlucky would pretty much require you to play a low number of times. The more times you play, the more your results will come to reflect the probabilities programmed into the machine.

Would it be possible to have a changing winning percentage? I dont know i'm just wondering, maybe it would just randomly decide one day to have 30/70 win/loss then the next day 50/50 then the next day 70/30?? Dunno if that would be possible though

hampy · #35 02-24-2007, 10:05 PM

Raven, people would still want to play the events that EMs host. The current events would still be there so i'm sure that people would like to keep playing them. Yes there would be more ECs in the economy, but people enjoy playing events, there are some events that I would play even if there wasn't a prize just because I like them so much.

hampy · #36 02-24-2007, 10:07 PM

Another point that was raised would be the tickets you win could be exchanged for items as well not just ECs, gold keys and diamonds. I think this would give more reason to use the casino, perhaps there could be different priced items, e.g EC and Gold key costs 10,000 tickets, and then say a ring would cost 20,000 tickets, this would mean that not only ECs are being released ;o

Googi · #37 02-24-2007, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hampy

Another point that was raised would be the tickets you win could be exchanged for items as well not just ECs, gold keys and diamonds. I think this would give more reason to use the casino, perhaps there could be different priced items, e.g EC and Gold key costs 10,000 tickets, and then say a ring would cost 20,000 tickets, this would mean that not only ECs are being released ;o

Either way, you're still establishing a conversion rate. Instead of the economic effect being identical to allowing a conversion of 10000 plat to 1EC, it's not identical to allowing conversions of 10000 plat to 1 EC or 1 Gold Key and 20000 plat to some kind of ring (assuming we're using a machine where the probabilities create a conversion rate of approximately 10000 plat to approximately 10000 tokens/tickets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hampy

Would it be possible to have a changing winning percentage? I dont know i'm just wondering, maybe it would just randomly decide one day to have 30/70 win/loss then the next day 50/50 then the next day 70/30?? Dunno if that would be possible though

Sure it's possible, but there would still be a de facto average conversion rate (you calculate the probability of each outcome using both the "base" probability and the random modifier that changes daily), however you would be allowing a person who has a lot of plat (it would probably have to be well in excess of 100,000, but people with that kind of plat holdings exist) to exploit the system by using a significant amount of plat (though it would be a small amount compared to their total savings) to determine the "conversion rate of the day" and then using their entire savings when they deem it favourable.

Ravenblade1979 · #38 02-25-2007, 05:41 AM

I am still all for it.

hampy · #39 02-25-2007, 11:59 AM

Well, in that case there could be a limit of how many tickets you can get each day, that should be able to stop people spending loads when they find its a good time to gamble :x

Ravenblade1979 · #40 02-25-2007, 04:56 PM