true question

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Door

Who decides this? And where does it end? First it's *** and *****, then it's homosexual and silly head, then flamboyant and dum-dum... ffs, people will ALWAYS find ways to insult one another, it just HAPPENS. There is no way that you can justify removing everyone's fun just because of what some people take to heart, and what some people abuse. If you want to do so, then you'll have to deal with situations in which people feel the need to refuse your logic and suggest their own.

Yes, people will always insult one another - and I think they recognize this. They're not saying "Don't insult other people" so much as they're saying "Don't insult other users aggressively, and for the love of God don't bring sexuality, race, or religion into it -_-".

Also, on a side note - it's not gone so far as to block out "poop-face" yet, you poop-face. I don't see the problem there,

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Ruf

I love how 1. I'm being ignored and 2. You just uncensored the word "***" so you could use it.

Edit: Oh wait you didn't!

He's not really using it to insult someone, so much as to make an example. I don't see why there's anything wrong with it. You guys are just being asses x-x

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stephen

He's not really using it to insult someone, so much as to make an example. I don't see why there's anything wrong with it. You guys are just being asses x-x

If I did it right now i'd get an i-word and probably banned on sight. Double standards suck.

Also I must say, I'm glad this thread is not locked yet...it shows some positive progress on these forums already.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We don't make money with letting people harass other people, no matter if they are normal forum members or moderators. You can't believe that we would make more money if we allow such illegal things. This is just not the place to express personal feelings about moderators. If someone has a real problem then he/she can use the support center. That is simple to understand.

I suggest studying a bit more of the English lanuage. Who here is harassing people? Look that up.


We aren't asking you to allow illegal things. Read Googi's thread. Stop being lazy and ignoring the subject at hand.


This is not a real problem? Forum moderators are causing real problems.

[excaliber7388]

Happy customers are returning customers. 80% of your profits come from 20% of your customers. You rely on brand loyalty to make money. Or you won't.

[Admins]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Happy customers are returning customers. 80% of your profits come from 20% of your customers. You rely on brand loyalty to make money. Or you won't.

Right, by allowing interesting discussions on the forums we make our customers more happy. By allowing stupid threads which don't follow any rule we don't make the customers more happy. Plain and simple. A customer is always right, except he/she makes other customers unhappy.

[Door]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Right, by allowing interesting discussions on the forums we make our customers more happy. By allowing stupid threads which don't follow any rule we don't make the customers more happy. Plain and simple. A customer is always right, except he/she makes other customers unhappy.

Define 'stupid' please.

also I think that word offends me so please refrain from using it.

[Ruf]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Right, by allowing interesting discussions on the forums we make our customers more happy. By allowing stupid threads which don't follow any rule we don't make the customers more happy. Plain and simple. A customer is always right, except he/she makes other customers unhappy.

Stefan..

Originally Posted by Ruf

I sent the ticket under Forums and Other, I also e-mailed it to yourself, Unixmad and Ibonic yet.. I had no reply from anyone other then Moon Goddess, which Sam closed.

I don't think I've ever made another customer feel "unhappy" ..other then MC_ GUNNER, but he deserved it - he was a hacker!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Right, by allowing interesting discussions on the forums we make our customers more happy. By allowing stupid threads which don't follow any rule we don't make the customers more happy. Plain and simple. A customer is always right, except he/she makes other customers unhappy.

you are so misguided man...

the problem we all have are within the rules themselves and to the extent they are moderated, its not so hard to see really. how many customers have you really lost by players harassing others COMPARED to the amount that quit because of the hardline moderation here?

i think i'll stop there, i've said enough.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Right, by allowing interesting discussions on the forums we make our customers more happy. By allowing stupid threads which don't follow any rule we don't make the customers more happy. Plain and simple. A customer is always right, except he/she makes other customers unhappy.

Yes, harassment would not be allowed.
But closing threads on account of 'moderator digression' or because of homosexuality? Or mods changing the rules at will?
Mods have too much power, and clearly, people are unhappy

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Yes, harassment would not be allowed.
But closing threads on account of 'moderator digression' or because of homosexuality?

Could you stop mentioning homosexuality in every post you make?
Even the members of the other forum disagree with you.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Yes, harassment would not be allowed.
But closing threads on account of 'moderator digression' or because of homosexuality? Or mods changing the rules at will?
Mods have too much power, and clearly, people are unhappy

You're arguement is pointless. The stuff you posted had a right to be deleted.

[zell12]

And since you take part in so many of these "interesting" discussions, you would know that? :/

Go read googi's thread, through and through, and you will understand what we are trying to get through your head.

[konidias]

Again, you guys have two choices:

1. live with the rules
2. leave

If enough people left, then maybe they would change the way things are run here. Maybe they wouldn't. Even still, you're not going to get to stay here PLUS have the rules changed the way you want them. Just accept that already. This has been run into the ground.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by konidias

Again, you guys have two choices:

1. live with the rules
2. leave

If enough people left, then maybe they would change the way things are run here. Maybe they wouldn't. Even still, you're not going to get to stay here PLUS have the rules changed the way you want them. Just accept that already. This has been run into the ground.

Option 3: Organize everyone to submit tickets and send emails to Unixmad and Stefan, since we cannot discuss it here. Stop being ignorant of the issue.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by zell12

Option 3: Organize everyone to submit tickets and send emails to Unixmad and Stefan, since we cannot discuss it here. Stop being ignorant of the issue.

He's making a fair point Excal. What he's saying is things won't change - and if they ever do change it will only be out of necessity - which will never happen unless the forums = deserted. Which will also never happen.

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by Stephen

He's making a fair point Excal. What he's saying is things won't change - and if they ever do change it will only be out of necessity - which will never happen unless the forums = deserted. Which will also never happen.

In all honesty nothing like that would matter.

Because Unixmad and Stefan and Moon Goddess and Sam and everyone else has made it very obvious that they will just ban most anyone who had a voice that speaks against them or in a tone they dont want to hear.

So in theory, even if the forums were deserted, and there were maybe 2-3 new posts a week (or per day even), it would only further to make the administration happy.

Also Moon Goddess I am picking you out personally now, PLEASE stop hiding behind Stefan and Unixmad when you talk to us. Im tired of your only responses being robotic zealot forum admin responses, nothing ever gets done that way. Take a note from Stefan, he is at least TRYING

[konidias]

Originally Posted by zell12

Option 3: Organize everyone to submit tickets and send emails to Unixmad and Stefan, since we cannot discuss it here. Stop being ignorant of the issue.

That's already been suggested by the forum staff. People don't agree with how it's being done. Forum staff think it's fine. They've got the final word. End of discussion.

There's no need to tell me I'm ignorant.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by konidias

That's already been suggested by the forum staff. People don't agree with how it's being done. Forum staff think it's fine. They've got the final word. End of discussion.

There's no need to tell me I'm ignorant.

People don't agree with it because they are afraid of wasting their time. Who listens to one person, with no one to back them up? I'm positive that if enough people bring valid points to the administrators, change will in fact happen.

[James205]

Apparently my example just wasn't good enough.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by zell12

People don't agree with it because they are afraid of wasting their time. Who listens to one person, with no one to back them up? I'm positive that if enough people bring valid points to the administrators, change will in fact happen.

That's the thing. Dozens of people have tried. Many threads have been made (and closed) regarding issues with these forums.

They are making it clear that no matter how many people rally against the rules/mods, nothing is going to change. I think you're being naive.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

May be you don't know how to write things in a polite way, but I am quite sure that you would discuss it over 10 pages when you don't get an infraction and would ask for the moderator to be fired for not giving an infraction.

So it's all about my lack of politeness? Tell me when anyone has been polite to me on this game/forums.

Also, I argue when I see an unjust punishment. I accept some infractions, just ask Sam. But others that are just absurd I have to argue.

You can get punished for discussing something where I already made clear that it is SPAM.

Uh fine.

Stop being ignorant, if you cannot read then don't post either.

And you speak of politeness? This is nothing to do with ignorance, but fine. It seems we can't discuss this anymore.

[Infernix]

I last made a ticket trying to get my other two account unbanned. They were banned for ban evading yet...if my accounts are banned thats means Ive current ban evading as it is. So I asked them why not unban them. Moonie said she would talk to Unixmad and Im pretty sad to say I have yet to receive a response.

Ive also had a incident where a mod banned me after deleting a post in a goodbye thread where I asked. (Not quote for quote) "Why are you leaveing, and does anyone know if this person has truly left"

Ive actually settled down cause I kind of came to the conclusion Ill never receive the support I would receive from other forums or games.

You may run these forums in this game in any manner that you want but in the end when things go wrong, no one is going care anymore.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Infernix

I last made a ticket trying to get my other two account unbanned. They were banned for ban evading yet...if my accounts are banned thats means Ive current ban evading as it is. So I asked them why not unban them. Moonie said she would talk to Unixmad and Im pretty sad to say I have yet to receive a response.

Ive also had a incident where a mod banned me after deleting a post in a goodbye thread where I asked. (Not quote for quote) "Why are you leaveing, and does anyone know if this person has truly left"

Ive actually settled down cause I kind of came to the conclusion Ill never receive the support I would receive from other forums or games.

You may run these forums in this game in any manner that you want but in the end when things go wrong, no one is going care anymore.

Not my fault that I havent heard from Unixmad yet. I did leave him a message about it.

[zell12]

Seems like every time a thread is created, and we get some nice discussion going, its closed, and we are told to use the support center to voice our concerns. I don't know if it will work, neither do you.

[konidias]

Stefan just reached 8000 posts. :P I also wanted to ask "what's up with the EVILDOOM" thing? lol Sorry, if this is spam but it's not like it's gonna take the whole conversation off topic for Stefan to respond.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by konidias

Stefan just reached 8000 posts. :P I also wanted to ask "what's up with the EVILDOOM" thing? lol Sorry, if this is spam but it's not like it's gonna take the whole conversation off topic for Stefan to respond.

Hahaha! That thing's still there?

That's from when Spark911 and myself were testing the forum usergroup system a while back.

[killerogue]

Haha, make Stan a mod and we wouldn't have this problem. Also methinks Stefan you should appoint a few more moderators/globals so customers as myself could get support/assistance much faster, because this is getting sort of ridiculous. I've once put in a ticket for a server name change and it didn't get answered for two weeks. That's totally weak man. I understand where you're coming from. Everyone please put thereselves in Stefan's shoes, however Stefan and Unixmad, as well as Darlene the most should be doing the same.

[zell12]

Originally Posted by killerogue

Haha, make Stan a mod and we wouldn't have this problem. Also methinks Stefan you should appoint a few more moderators/globals so customers as myself could get support/assistance much faster, because this is getting sort of ridiculous. I've once put in a ticket for a server name change and it didn't get answered for two weeks. That's totally weak man. I understand where you're coming from. Everyone please put thereselves in Stefan's shoes, however Stefan and Unixmad, as well as Darlene the most should be doing the same.

I'm sure your problem is something only Stefan or Unixmad can fix, since they do not trust anyone else overseas. They also don't want to spend the money (I'm assuming this is the reason) to employ someone else to work at the office with them. Oh well. Don't blame the other staff, they are only messengers.

[killerogue]

Originally Posted by zell12

I'm sure your problem is something only Stefan or Unixmad can fix, since they do not trust anyone else overseas. They also don't want to spend the money (I'm assuming this is the reason) to employ someone else to work at the office with them. Oh well. Don't blame the other staff, they are only messengers.

Was a while back just an example.

[zell12]

Yeah, I figured. I know how you feel though, I have a pending issue on the support center, 3 months over due waiting for a response. I still have unconfirmed PMs sent to Admins that were never viewed and never responded to, even after 4 years.

[killerogue]

Originally Posted by zell12

Yeah, I figured. I know how you feel though, I have a pending issue on the support center, 3 months over due waiting for a response. I still have unconfirmed PMs sent to Admins that were never viewed and never responded to, even after 4 years.

I think this should all be summed up into three simple not quite demands but requests. Just here read this Stefan/Unix/Moonie:

1. Please a little less strict modding and bending rules.
2. Stop treating us like children. We're not all. Some of us are intelligent adult human beings.
3. And just don't be afraid to ask for help or hire help. I know your trust in the community to produce fine globals has failed due to "incidents" but you must listen to your customers and do your best to keep them happy.

[killerogue]

Sorry for the DP. But I think this thread may make some progress in the global/customer relationship. I like how many globals are online.

[PrinceDark]

We don't make money with letting people harass other people, no matter if they are normal forum members or moderators.

Several individuals here have received an argument provoking personal message from a certain not so friendly mod. Funny thing is, majority of us left initials or full name letting the user know where the neg rep came. I really don't care as much as some others do, but I just wanted to point this out as proof is readily available by the ones who have been attacked.

Originally Posted by Sam
Are you so gutless to leave your name in the rep comment? You're cool

[killerogue]

No offense to you Stefan, but you are a stubborn guy man. As well as the other Graal global moderators. HOWEVER, the users/customers of Graal tend to be overly stubborn as well so if two sides continue to be stubborn without compromise we get nowhere.


Broke 1000.

[killerogue]

Ugh. 5 Simple rules. And Darlene please absorb for a few moments what I posted. But 5 rules will all be needed:

1. No Harassment of Any Type.
2. No Multiple Posting in Succession.

Maybe only 2?

[killerogue]

Here's better yet a an even simpler idea:

1. Forum Manager.

Lower than Stefan and Unix but can manage the moderators and override their actions. Please you should consider that. It makes enough sense ya kno. And please for god sakes if you do. Don't recycle people who already have global/moderator powers. Find some new blood for christs' sake.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by killerogue

Here's better yet a an even simpler idea:

1. Forum Manager.

Lower than Stefan and Unix but can manage the moderators and override their actions. Please you should consider that. It makes enough sense ya kno. And please for god sakes if you do. Don't recycle people who already have global/moderator powers. Find some new blood for christs' sake.

Ibonic and Moonie already fit this archetype. More specially the people causing trouble want Moonie out simply because she has reprimanded them in some way or another (they broke a rule and thought they would get away with it) and now they lash out at her every chance they get.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Chris

Ibonic and Moonie already fit this archetype. More specially the people causing trouble want Moonie out simply because she has reprimanded them in some way or another (they broke a rule and thought they would get away with it) and now they lash out at her every chance they get.

Exactly.....over and over and over again

[PrinceDark]

Originally Posted by Chris

Ibonic and Moonie already fit this archetype. More specially the people causing trouble want Moonie out simply because she has reprimanded them in some way or another (they broke a rule and thought they would get away with it) and now they lash out at her every chance they get.

I really doubt Moonie is the reason for this new argument. More like 1 mod that picks fights with people in personal messages. Then imagine that mod becoming biased and deciding to take it out on individuals abusively by giving them unwarranted infractions and causing them to be banned.
That is the issue. Users being silenced along with their complaints in the support tickets.