Miscellaneous Kingdom Discussion

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Evil_Lord_Sparda

If anything there are too many Kingdoms at the moment. People are being spread far too thinly across the Kingdoms as it is. I would prefer less Kingdoms with higher player counts.

Yes, combine Zormite and Dustari. Pirates should be more like an 'official' guild, kill their island too. They can have the island east of Hotaru which isn't used anyway.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

Yes, combine Zormite and Dustari. Pirates should be more like an 'official' guild, kill their island too. They can have the island east of Hotaru which isn't used anyway.

BY GEORGE I THINK YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING! No, seriously. This is the best thing I've heard in this thread. The second best thing below.

Originally Posted by protagonist

Get rid of levels above level 30.

And I always thought you never had a brain. Hallelujah hallelujah the lord has come!

PLEASE DO THESE THINGS.

[busyrobot]

Well, GK will never be limited to level thirty, it just won't happen...staff/playerbase wise. Its also hard to blame players who work hard to get to high levels to defend their kingdoms and penalize them, chances are in the end high end players will take a hit so the least we can do is ensure that its thought out as best as possible.

As for combining zormite and dustari, they are very very distinct kingdoms. Dustari is very medieval, and zormite is both a replublic and has a very ancient world feel to it. The two nations have an alliance that makes them as strong as one kingdom, but diversity would be lost if they were merged.

What we need is a good plot, a good RP story to tell. In addition to that, an effective mechanism that helped promote RP compatible wars would greatly help.

[Gambet]

Its not just the kingdoms that are dying, but the server in itself.

[GoldSri]

I think pirates is in decline...New members cannot be expected to RP properly when the people who should be setting an example are using phrases such like
"k, i'll see ya's l8r"
I mentioned it to a friend, who later talked to this person in RP and still got responses like the above =/

[protagonist]

Get rid of levels above level 30. Also, get monsters to drop rare items, and make it so that monsters are very difficult to kill by onesself.

[busyrobot]

It would be great to limit levels above 30 in some ways, but it a) will never happen staff/playerbase wise... and b) people have worked hard to get above that level and its hard to blame higher level players when they are only responding to the high level players in other threatening kingdoms and working hard to protect their kingdom. Its not like they are at fault.

In regards to combining zormite and dustari...these are actually very distinct element.

[Nappa]

Dustari and Zormite are as good as one. We could just cut out the middle man. The only reason this wont happen is one of these little queens will have to give up their throne.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Dustari and Zormite are as good as one. We could just cut out the middle man. The only reason this wont happen is one of these little queens will have to give up their throne.

I'll take note of that and file it under "how not to make a constructive comment" thank you. If you can't see the difference between the two kingdoms you are making a point of not wanting to.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Well, GK will never be limited to level thirty, it just won't happen...staff/playerbase wise. Its also hard to blame players who work hard to get to high levels to defend their kingdoms and penalize them, chances are in the end high end players will take a hit so the least we can do is ensure that its thought out as best as possible.

Yeah, we dont want to piss off the top five players so that the 100 other players can enjoy a game. That'd just be a crime against humanity itself.

Lower everyone's EXP down 80%-90% and make it harder to get EXP, tada! Zurkiba has just solved how to level the levels.

Not to mention most people just abuse bugs to get exp. Granted there will always be bugs but atleast those bug exploiters wont be leading the kingdoms.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

As for combining zormite and dustari, they are very very distinct kingdoms. Dustari is very medieval, and zormite is both a replublic and has a very ancient world feel to it. The two nations have an alliance that makes them as strong as one kingdom, but diversity would be lost if they were merged.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I'll take note of that and file it under "how not to make a constructive comment" thank you. If you can't see the difference between the two kingdoms you are making a point of not wanting to.

Awesome, not only are both kingdoms lead by people from Dustari. They go against every single set of prior settings to ruin kingdoms.

Zormite has an ancient feel? For me it has a vomitting feel . If you think that then Zen has failed in his reasoning to make Zormite feel like a modern state.

Dustari is more like a fantasy human kingdom. Otherwise 90% of the army would be carrying around pickaxes and lumber axes while the other 10% were Knights.

Yeah, Republic by name, Monarchy by actuality.

What diversity? The different rank names.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

What diversity? The different rank names.

And different members + island. It just makes so much more sense to combine Zormite and Dustari since they operate as one anyway too.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Yeah, we dont want to piss off the top five players so that the 100 other players can enjoy a game. That'd just be a crime against humanity itself.

Lower everyone's EXP down 80%-90% and make it harder to get EXP, tada! Zurkiba has just solved how to level the levels.

Not to mention most people just abuse bugs to get exp. Granted there will always be bugs but atleast those bug exploiters wont be leading the kingdoms.

First, you'll find its more like 100 players getting pissed off and about 5 or so in favor...even Zoe, who is the strongest player in the game last I checked, was in favor of a complete reset. If you think she abused bugs, check her hours - she earned her XP. If it wasn't for players like her lots of PKers who have absolutely no interest in RPing would have had total run of every island on GK, you should really be thanking her. I have personally proposed ideas such as nerphing people's XP by percent, and fixing the xp amounts, but if you wait for things like that to further roleplaying then you are obstructing, not helping, progress with RPing.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Awesome, not only are both kingdoms lead by people from Dustari. They go against every single set of prior settings to ruin kingdoms.

Aki has been in zormite for ages, she's one of the oldest members of that kingdom.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Zormite has an ancient feel? For me it has a vomitting feel . If you think that then Zen has failed in his reasoning to make Zormite feel like a modern state.

That is because of your unhealthy obsession with zormite/fishhead issues. If you were a better roleplayer you would have long ago accepted that Zormite is the way it is. I doubt you could roleplay a character who was even neutral towards Zormite, because of your petty out of character differences of opinion on the direction it should have taken. You should accept that fishheads hurt roleplaying (how do you recruit people to join a kingdom who have RP characters that are.............not fish? Zormite has to be a working kingdom, not just a goldfish bowl for your ammusment)

As for Zen, he did add a much more modern touch, but it definately has a bronze age feel to the island overall, that it has a longer history.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Dustari is more like a fantasy human kingdom. Otherwise 90% of the army would be carrying around pickaxes and lumber axes while the other 10% were Knights.

Picking hairs here.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Yeah, Republic by name, Monarchy by actuality.

What diversity? The different rank names.

Yeah, Monarchy by game mechanics as a result of the fixed kingdom GUI, a Republic by roleplaying of its members. The only thing that is so similar between Dustari and Zormite, is your ill founded petty contempt for both.
Get over it so you can stop being such an obstructionist and actually help further progress with roleplaying. I think we are trying to brainstorm here, not bicker over long dead differences of direction in the various kingdoms' developments.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

First, you'll find its more like 100 players getting pissed off and about 5 or so in favor...even Zoe, who is the strongest player in the game last I checked, was in favor of a complete reset. If you think she abused bugs, check her hours - she earned her XP. If it wasn't for players like her lots of PKers who have absolutely no interest in RPing would have had total run of every island on GK, you should really be thanking her. I have personally proposed ideas such as nerphing people's XP by percent, and fixing the xp amounts, but if you wait for things like that to further roleplaying then you are obstructing, not helping, progress with RPing.

Zoe is a hypocrite or a bug exploiter. Zoe told me that I need to get a life, and that Graal is only a game.

I have a lot of hours on Graal Kingdoms, which must mean I should be higher then level 6 right?

How does Zoe's level influence the number of roleplayers in the game? It doesn't. If anything it deters people from roleplaying in general. Because of players like her there are no wars and therefore roleplaying slowly dies.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

That is because of your unhealthy obsession with zormite/fishhead issues. If you were a better roleplayer you would have long ago accepted that Zormite is the way it is. I doubt you could roleplay a character who was even neutral towards Zormite, because of your petty out of character differences of opinion on the direction it should have taken. You should accept that fishheads hurt roleplaying (how do you recruit people to join a kingdom who have RP characters that are.............not fish? Zormite has to be a working kingdom, not just a goldfish bowl for your ammusment)

Obviously you fail to understand that the current state is not roleplaying. 'OMG IT WAS MAGIC AND NOW WE'RE HUMANS! OMG!' wow, nice roleplaying there.

Funny, I could've swore the Zormite Empire of 2k1 did perfectly fine. In fact I believe it became the most active kingdom on 2k1 and conquered the world. Gasp! No you're right, being a fish would never work and it ruins roleplaying and the state of Zormite in general.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

As for Zen, he did add a much more modern touch, but it definately has a bronze age feel to the island overall, that it has a longer history.

Ugh

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Get over it so you can stop being such an obstructionist and actually help further progress with roleplaying. I think we are trying to brainstorm here, not bicker over long dead differences of direction in the various kingdoms' developments.

Obstructionist? Hardly. If you listened to me then we wouldn't be in this mess.

If you couldn't tell I'm a very aggressive person. Ergo I fix problems the way I know best, through aggression. Why?.. because the leaders of today do not understand what their kingdom is.

We are not brainstorming here. The point of the thread is to discuss if Cresent Pirates are going downhill. It went far off track with discussions such as this. But the conversations had to be in this thread because the corruption over at the Dustari forums just flooded the ideas of all elsewhere.

It is you are the obstructionist. Along with you are some of the other kingdom leaders. The kingdom leaders are directly responsible for the outcome of the roleplaying community of Graal Kingdoms and you have failed.

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Then there are people who prefer to complain about everything, and like you, they are not in any kingdom.

You fail to understand that a person with KAD rights can not remove a person from a kingdom.

Do you think I am not a Dustarian? Far from it. I am more Dustarian than you are. I still believe myself to be within the kingdom. The same is with Nappa and the Zormites. Why dont you ask Nappa how much the Zormites have influenced his life.

[protagonist]

Idea: Any one on a kingdom tag gets their stats set to a fixed position.

[Nappa]

The only thing different about Dustari and Zormite is the name. They both go together with every decision. The kingdom leaders are of the same royal family. You and I both know that the only differences are the names.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

The only thing different about Dustari and Zormite is the name. They both go together with every decision. The kingdom leaders are of the same royal family. You and I both know that the only differences are the names.

A strong alliance is not the same as both of them functioning the same. They have entirely different roleplaying setups and styles. As different as CP and forest. I prefer the human/medieval/fantasy type kingdom, to roleplay in greatly to that of a republic. That is my personal preference. People who prefer differently, of course, are in zormite. Then there are people who prefer to complain about everything, and like you, they are not in any kingdom.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

Then there are people who prefer to complain about everything, and like you, they are not in any kingdom.

That must be why I'm not in any kingdom either. Well, I was in Samurai until the Empress found out I wanted to take over. :[

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

They have entirely different roleplaying setups and styles.

But, since they don't roleplay anyway, this doesn't matter.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

A strong alliance is not the same as both of them functioning the same. They have entirely different roleplaying setups and styles. As different as CP and forest. I prefer the human/medieval/fantasy type kingdom, to roleplay in greatly to that of a republic. That is my personal preference. People who prefer differently, of course, are in zormite. Then there are people who prefer to complain about everything, and like you, they are not in any kingdom.

Their not completely different, at all. They are both monarchy's, but one just puts the name "republic" after it's name.

Oh and by the way, I am in Forest, fool.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Oh and by the way, I am in Forest, fool.

Foo'

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Their not completely different, at all. They are both monarchy's, but one just puts the name "republic" after it's name.

Oh and by the way, I am in Forest, fool.

You can say that over and over but it doesn't make it so. The diversity between Zormite and Dustari is no different than the diversity between Dustari and Forest, or CP, or anywhere.

And congrats on getting into a kingdom.

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

Game mechanics only affect so much, yes, the game was better for RP when everyone was about level 5, but let's consider this, that's because they had no other options, brute force was unheard of, now, there is an option, because people are more powerful.

I totally agree with you, most people agree that when people were about lvl 5 or so it was much better.

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

If people wanted to roleplay, they would have to have the willpower to choose the less popular option, that is, to roleplay, the pace of the game picked up when people stopping having to struggle to acomplish anything, it picked up to the point were no one stopped to smell the flowers, so to speak, to enjoy their surroundings, now their only drive is to be better killers.

First, its not a willpower issue, because when people were lvl 5, there was still a game mechanic element to solve victories and such, where players could work together, roleplay, and with some skill and tactics, win in a respectable fashion. If we didn't have any game mechanic factors, how would you determine the winner of any war? Typing *cuts off head* doesn't amount to a way to determine victory.

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

So, I suggest that all kingdoms outcast powerplayers, anyone who's primary motive is to get the better weapon, and have the best armor, etc, people who standing around the marketplace buying diamonds to prep the infernos and the hammers and the FIDs, rather than going out, and being content with an unprepped weapon.

The people of that strength level in dustari have only doen so for one reason: to defend the kingdom, because whether you like it or not, people will always have to deal with high level players, often not in any kingdom, who will distrupt and harass other players. Second, where do you cut off 'powerplayer' by definition? Level 29? Level 30?

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

Do you really think it takes -50 or more WC to kill T-Rex? Pfft, no way, the only reason you would actively seek more than -30 wc is if you were a powerplayer bent on PK, because beyond -30, it's redundant, same goes for AC, -30 and you're not going to be getting hit by much of anything. I am talking these being maximums, if people lose the challenge and the struggle, they get lazy, and they become what we see today.

You need to defeat Pkers, or they will PK you. It did happen in the past, not even other kingdom members at all, and it was very distruptive when someone PKs half the royal family during an event in Borea or such.

Originally Posted by Aethorpe

I've seen alot of innocent noobs who had more RP potential and common sense than all the server's oldbie power players combined. I challenge the entire GK server to take off their RoWs, RoS, RoC, whatever, and all thier PMoP, and Event this, and event that, and put it in a bag and store it for later, then take a week or so, and try playing from scratch, don't reset your character, but I mean, just as far as items, and play tendencies, try to go out and work for your own things, rather than waiting around the trade room for good deals, go mine and craft yourself a weapon, put a +1-2 blessing on it, then go struggle for a while, smell the flowers, look around. Alot of times, the simplest life is the most fullfilling.

I personally would like to see both GK reset, and the item base changed drastically. XP should be adjusted too. I would like it best if weapons were made in smithies, not purchased with event coins, and if you had something as rare as armor from your god, you'd have to be a truly powerful priest, not just some barb with lit and piety. I want roleplaying to improve now though, not wait until they finally break down and reset the server...if that ever even would happen.

[Zurkiba]

Just ignore my response -_-

None the less, Graal Kingdom's game mechanics wont be fixed. I've tried to change them for three years now and there is still no luck. Apparently the higher staff dont care about 2k2.

[Nappa]

Wow.. Great defence against my statements.. "I don't care what nappa says". Yipee!

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Wow.. Great defence against my statements.. "I don't care what nappa says". Yipee!

I never said I don't care what you say, I said you are often saying things that are irrelevant or nonsensical, such as crude insults and declarations of your views as if they were a mandate in themselves.

I don't care about who says what, just what is said, its the only way to have a fair and open debate or evolution of a topic.

That said though, the fish argument is really dead. I don't say that as my opinion, but based on the fact that A) Zormite doesn't want it B) Zormite has control of its own RP destiny. C) Former members, no matter how involved with the early development, can't dictate down the road how things are to be run - they can only make suggestions, and should, if their suggestions are not approved, be civil about it.

[Nappa]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I never said I don't care what you say, I said you are often saying things that are irrelevant or nonsensical, such as crude insults and declarations of your views as if they were a mandate in themselves.

I don't care about who says what, just what is said, its the only way to have a fair and open debate or evolution of a topic.

That said though, the fish argument is really dead. I don't say that as my opinion, but based on the fact that A) Zormite doesn't want it B) Zormite has control of its own RP destiny. C) Former members, no matter how involved with the early development, can't dictate down the road how things are to be run - they can only make suggestions, and should, if their suggestions are not approved, be civil about it.

Funny that you'll argue to others about it ? The fact is, I don't care if the Zormite kingdom stays on 2k2. Just change the name from Zormite to something else. This is no longer zormite, Zormite ended after 2k1. Change the name to "HighPowerLevelPlayersRuleMe Republic" for all I care. But this isn't Zormite. And to think that it is is a damn fallacy. Change to fish, or change your name. Simple as that.

Oh and don't try to tell me that Zormite and humans integrated, because Me and Lance were the last emperors before Zormite was moved. And I made sure as hell all my members hated humans. We would NEVER allow a human to join us. I got so many pms asking if people could join as humans, but I never allowed one, just as noone before me did. To think that 5 minutes later after 2k1 zormite story ended somehow the entire world of Zormite changed is stupid. Zormite was the greatest empire to the end. This little republic is not Zormite.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Funny that you'll argue to others about it ? The fact is, I don't care if the Zormite kingdom stays on 2k2. Just change the name from Zormite to something else. This is no longer zormite, Zormite ended after 2k1. Change the name to "HighPowerLevelPlayersRuleMe Republic" for all I care. But this isn't Zormite. And to think that it is is a damn fallacy. Change to fish, or change your name. Simple as that.

Oh and don't try to tell me that Zormite and humans integrated, because Me and Lance were the last emperors before Zormite was moved. And I made sure as hell all my members hated humans. We would NEVER allow a human to join us. I got so many pms asking if people could join as humans, but I never allowed one, just as noone before me did. To think that 5 minutes later after 2k1 zormite story ended somehow the entire world of Zormite changed is stupid. Zormite was the greatest empire to the end. This little republic is not Zormite.

...in your opinion, and its duly noted. However, I think the current leaders and members of zormite disagree, and naturally, they have the right to do things their way.

[Nappa]

I have the right to smack you in the freakin face. Everytime you someone says something you can't respond to, you say "in your opinion".

It's getting pretty annoying.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

I have the right to smack you in the freakin face. Everytime you someone says something you can't respond to, you say "in your opinion".

It's getting pretty annoying.

No, you do not have the right to smack myself or anyone in the face. Your opinion about zormite is undoubtly just that, an opinion. I have no trouble responding to any of your statements, but that doesn't change the fact that stating your opinion as if it was a message from god, as a plain mandate with no basis, is no more compelling than if I were to say "Nappa needs to quit forest or they will always face reduced activity of their members" or something to that effect.
What is annoying is that there are people who, for whatever reason, insist on telling other kingdoms what to do even though they have no involvement whatsoever, dispite their suggestions having already been given more airtime than they deserve.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

No, you do not have the right to smack myself or anyone in the face. Your opinion about zormite is undoubtly just that, an opinion. I have no trouble responding to any of your statements, but that doesn't change the fact that stating your opinion as if it was a message from god, as a plain mandate with no basis, is no more compelling than if I were to say "Nappa needs to quit forest or they will always face reduced activity of their members" or something to that effect.
What is annoying is that there are people who, for whatever reason, insist on telling other kingdoms what to do even though they have no involvement whatsoever, dispite their suggestions having already been given more airtime than they deserve.

Advisors tell leaders what to do yet they themself are not the leader.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

Advisors tell leaders what to do yet they themself are not the leader.

They don't tell them what to do, they advise them what to do. There is a big difference, and I don't have a problem with nappa or anyone else offering advice.

[busyrobot]

GZ, what you are 'suggesting' is the wholesale distruption and gutting of a GK kingdom, you can't turn zormite into something it is not without undoing the last several years of history. Then you claim since you see forest RP, (and you should you are in it) but don't see Zormite RP (you aren't in it to see it) that somehow now Zormite, needs to justify its existance, to you.

That is not right in the head. I did reread all of nappa's posts, I didn't see anything meaningful. I honestly did not see anything. Now, since you are the ones who want to gut Zormite - I want to leave it alone - perhaps it wouldn't be exactly too much to ask for you to say, read their history in their forums. Of course in someone like Nappa's head, he can't see that its gutting Zormite because unless Zormite exists in the exact way of his liking at all times he can't even acknowledge it's existance. But the fact is, Zormite has existed on GK for all of GK's life. It will continue to have the right to exist. It just shows how little some people care about RPing, when you have some kingdoms, such as KJ, that could actually use some help with the topic - yet when a few people have their egos bruised because their idea is not used by a kingdom that has thrived and made a unique and diverse history for itself on GK, that dominates your minds. If nappa really cared about Zormite, and not just his ideas, he would not be out to hurt it constantly, now would he?

As for Dustari being turned into a bomy kingdom on 3D - if they do that, that is fine by me. I'd state my feelings on the topic, that I didn't like the idea, and ask what they felt it brought and if there was another way to achieve thier goals that allowed for a medieval/fantasy Dustari, but its not my decision, so after making the suggestion, of course, I would welcome their choice.
I mean really, who am I to enforce my ideas on someone else's kingdom? I own zero intellectual property on GK. If I worried how others may change my ideas down the road, I'd get nothing done. Try designing websites for a living, and go back a year later and see the gfx you have done for a client's site, rearranged in a disjointed fashion. You'd get over childish reactions like Nappa's in a hurry or you wouldn't be able to stay in the business.

PS: I do have an RP profile, I don't post it on a site. If you want to get to know my character in character, try talking to my character, in character in the game sometime.

[Zurkiba]

We're not enforcing ideas apon other kingdoms. You dont see Zormite as fishes.

What we are doing is stating that what Zormite is doing is against the storyline, and against everything in the book in general.

The fact is this, Zormite is lazy. That is why they are not fishes.
Aki doesn't want to be a fish, yet she wants to be the leader.

You say that years of history has taken place. You ask us how we can ignore it. Well how can the current Zormite state ignore the fact that they were a fish kingdom? If they could be a fish one day, and the next day be human (in a literal sense this happened) then I see no problem with them reverting in the same fashion as technically the human part hasn't happened yet, they're still fishes.

You stated that if Stefan and Unixmad wanted to, they could enforce the fish race on the Zormites. Apparently they dont care about the roleplaying community because they havn't done anything in the Samurai situation have they?

I found Nappa's comments to be fullfilling enough to answer your statements. Because you put down Nappa's comments gives us the right to say that you're losing this arguement because all of your statements have been solved with higher logic and better arguements.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

We're not enforcing ideas apon other kingdoms. You dont see Zormite as fishes.

Nor has almost anyone who plays GK, seen them as fishes in ages. That would be because they are not and have not been fishes, in ages.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

What we are doing is stating that what Zormite is doing is against the storyline, and against everything in the book in general.

The fact is this, Zormite is lazy. That is why they are not fishes.
Aki doesn't want to be a fish, yet she wants to be the leader.

You say that years of history has taken place. You ask us how we can ignore it. Well how can the current Zormite state ignore the fact that they were a fish kingdom? If they could be a fish one day, and the next day be human (in a literal sense this happened) then I see no problem with them reverting in the same fashion as technically the human part hasn't happened yet, they're still fishes.

They have been human for years, period, that is a fact. They have thrived and roleplayed and in general, been one of the better kingdoms on GK. There is no centralized Book of Graal and every kingdom has changed and developed over time. Sometimes graal has elves in the forest, sometimes its vikings, all that matters is that people RP decently enough and have fun.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

You stated that if Stefan and Unixmad wanted to, they could enforce the fish race on the Zormites. Apparently they dont care about the roleplaying community because they havn't done anything in the Samurai situation have they?

First, Stefan and Unixmad not doing exactly what you or I may think is the best thing for RPing....is not the same as them not caring. There are arguments they are not concerned with RPing, but regardless one thing is a fact; the actual staff have the first rank of authority, below that is the kingdom leaders, who are in charge of their kingdoms respectively. If the members of a kingdom dislike their leader and it causes long term problems, then its possible to ask stefan to step in at that point.

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I found Nappa's comments to be fullfilling enough to answer your statements. Because you put down Nappa's comments gives us the right to say that you're losing this arguement because all of your statements have been solved with higher logic and better arguements.

No, you found his conclusions fullfilling enough, I doubt you paid any attention to his comments.

Because I put down Nappa's comments? He's the one who talks about smacking people, lol.

Here, is everything he has said, in the entire thread:

CP is dead. All kingdoms are dead. The moment GK was in decline was the day it was released. I can't say anything has gone up. Sure we started at a good level and it took a while to go down, but it did go down, and as long as the same people are running these kingdoms, we won't see any changes.

This is a good example of what I mean by nonsensical. "CP is dead." has no context. It is actually quite active, they just had an event with his own kingdom, forest. Then "All kingdoms are dead." tops even that grand statement, yet is meaningless. What does that statement contribute? That he doesn't like GK? Is Forest dead too? Lets get Chris to answer that, he may be more qualified than Nappa educate us on that. Or, we don't need to bother Chris, as its just another nonsensical comment.
Can we top that? Yep. "The moment GK was in decline was the day it was released." - now that is a big one. He even contradicts it in his next sentance, so what is the point of even making it? He goes on to say that it actually took a while to decline, but that it was steady. I think there was some good times with Charles and Larrien in the early days, and many more good times down the road, but I am sure you can agree that the Astri times were fun. Then he says "as long as the same people are running these kingdoms, we won't see any changes." - which is again, baseless. We have had a lot of leaders change out in GK, yet somehow Nappa thinks all he has to do is make the comment, and it is so.

How is that post, even vaguely relevant? It barely makes sense. Each sentance is geared to sound grand and final and large, but has no thought to content or basis.

I am not going to get involved other then talking about the fish heads in the Dustari thread, but I must say, as long as the same people with the same policies around - They will have the same problems.

That is fine, but if I recall he was warned by admins that he is spamming if he keeps posting the same things over and over. Then he makes the same comments about the leaders, and again he doesn't say anything about how to fix anything, just more grand comments that until the leaders are gone, all of GK will be cursed and doom and gloom will rule the world.

--
I propose that the thread started in the dustari section be continued here due to it was closed for no real reason at all. Here, the Dustari leaders cannot close the thread.

Actually, the Dustari forums are not a place for the fish topic either, you would want to post that in the kingdoms forum. In fact, I believe there is at least a dozen or more threads where this exact topic was debate time after time after time after time and the only reason its is still being debated is that people can't accept when their ideas are not chosen to be used. Can you, Zurk, or anyone...imagine what it would be like if say, I wanted a change done - maybe I want forest to be vikings again - and if I just posted thread after thread after thread about it, declared all the leaders who disagreed with me unfit to rule repeatedly, and hijacked a large number of other threads onto the topic, just because I didn't get my way?

That is not a constructive way to work for anyone, and there is no reason that exceptions should be made for nappa or anyone else.

GZ: Yes, combine Zormite and Dustari. Pirates should be more like an 'official' guild, kill their island too. They can have the island east of Hotaru which isn't used anyway.
nappa: BY GEORGE I THINK YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING! No, seriously. This is the best thing I've heard in this thread. The second best thing below.
protagonist:
And I always thought you never had a brain. Hallelujah hallelujah the lord has come!

PLEASE DO THESE THINGS.

Nappa is entitled to his opinions here, but they are just that and not on the topic. As for combining Zormite and Dustari, I have already stated clearly the differences between the two nations. I don't support killing CP, but thats my opinion.

[busyrobot]

sorry for the double post, I am responding to several posts at once, so its a bit long

Dustari and Zormite are as good as one. We could just cut out the middle man. The only reason this wont happen is one of these little queens will have to give up their throne.

Again, in nappa's opinion he sees Dustari and Zormite 'as good as one' but there is sure no evidence to back that up, and I already pointed out the obvious differences. The rest is a weak insult at the leaders, there is clearly nothing of substance in this post.

The only thing different about Dustari and Zormite is the name. They both go together with every decision. The kingdom leaders are of the same royal family. You and I both know that the only differences are the names.

Getting closer to a post of substance, makes a case even. However, the strength of the alliance of the two nations and the crossing of bloodlines is not a reason to merge to distinct cultures. He fails to take into account the roleplaying differences of the two nations. Dustari is a medieval fantasy knight style of kingdom, Zormite is a Republic. Some call it a monarchy because they are uneducated in the definition of Republic (a topic very heavily documented and covered in the forums, no one should be ignorant on it at this point) or because of the GUI limits, but in that regard it is impossible not to have a monarchy then. The game mechanics are the same for all kingdoms. They do however have a rich roleplaying system of government that makes them rather distinct. In the end, this post of his has nothing substantial either.

Their not completely different, at all. They are both monarchy's, but one just puts the name "republic" after it's name.

Oh and by the way, I am in Forest, fool.

This again, fails to address any of the topics presented to date. It is repetition. It ignores the major differences in the histories and roleplaying styles of the two kingdoms. Another mindless post.

That is where your reasoning is flawed - I never quit Zormite. Zormite was removed forcefully from the server I played on and was changed instantly before my eyes. It's not like "oh they evolved 3 minutes later when it was thrown onto 2k2". I have been pushing fish heads SINCE ZORMITE WAS MOVED. (Oh and look at that, Moved, not CREATED)
...Not really, since I never quit. I am one of the only true Zormite members to the end.

First, Nappa says my reasoning is flawed because he never 'quit' Zormite and considers himself to be the only member. His desire to be a member is meaningless however, we have to deal in facts and the facts are, he has not been a member of Zormite in ages. Zormite has had a huge history that he has not been apart of. Everyone also knows, he has been pushing the fish head issue (much to everyone's dismay). No one in GK, no staff, no leaders, pretty much no players save maybe a small handful, would see that comment as anything other than lunacy. He is bickering over what changed when GK was first started years ago, and Zormite has changed a lot since then. Hardly a 'true' member of Zormite, he can't even recognize what it is anymore.

When do you represent the players ? Did you somehow become the leader of all the united players of this game ? No.. Changing Zormite not only ruins it for the members of Zormite but it removes roleplaying aspect from the game in general, thus hurting MY gameplay. So I as a PLAYER of the game, should have a say, no ?

I do not represent 'the players' nor did I claim to, I am just saying that just anyone who comes running around wanting their way can't just get it and change everything. Note his own words "No.. Changing Zormite not only ruins it for the members of Zormite but it removes roleplaying aspect from the game in general, thus hurting MY gameplay. " where he pretty much sums up my exact argument of why I don't want him to CHANGE zormite. His problem though, is he is failing to account for time and is living in the past, and changing zormite now and making them fish, would hurt everyone's gameplay and remove a roleplaying aspect from the game in general. However, if Zormite did choose to do that, I would not have a problem with it - I would adapt. That is the nature of roleplaying and um, having a community.

To this point has he made a single effective argument? Not once, its a combination, as at the top, totally nonsensical posts with flaming diatribes with no substance.

..I don't need to become a baker to tell you you can't make a cake, and that you should give it more sugar. I don't have to lead your nation to tell you your doing something wrong. As Zurkiba has been SAYING IN EVERY POST HE HAS MADE he has been trying to work with the kingdom leaders.

An almost effective argument, but it breaks down: he can and should be allowed to suggest adding sugar, but to make a mission out of it and speak down to everyone harshly and abusively who prefers to go light on the sugar and demand he gets his way....when he is not even eating the cake..is completely disfunctional. It is also irrelevant that Zurk has said that he has been trying to work with Kingdom leaders, he has also been trying to gut one of the finer kingdoms and has made no bones about it. That is not called working with the leaders.

..We have come up with solutions, but all you have done is argue against them and not come up with your own.

The closest thing that has been 'come up with' solution wise is to combine zormite and dustari (disasterous idea) or add fish heads to zormite (also disasterous). Some comments about changing game mechanics - which I generally support, but its not like those are solutions until they are possible, and they need people like stefan to say they are approved and can be done, before that can be considered a solution.

I have also proposed tons of roleplaying ideas and concepts and solutions, and I clearly have come up with my own. So, that statement is an outright lie.

Wow.. Great defence against my statements.. "I don't care what nappa says". Yipee!

As I made sure it was known, I do not 'not care' about what he says, I find most of his comments nonsensical, and I in this post, documented that quite clearly.

Funny that you'll argue to others about it ? The fact is, I don't care if the Zormite kingdom stays on 2k2. Just change the name from Zormite to something else. This is no longer zormite, Zormite ended after 2k1. Change the name to "HighPowerLevelPlayersRuleMe Republic" for all I care. But this isn't Zormite. And to think that it is is a damn fallacy. Change to fish, or change your name. Simple as that.

He is in no position to make that demand. He has nothing to do with zormite and has not been a zormite for a very long time. He can call himself a zormite but facts show he is not, other than in his own mind. The best evidence of that is the fact he has no idea of what zormite even is like to day nor is he in any way in synch with even one of its current members.

Oh and don't try to tell me that Zormite and humans integrated, because Me and Lance were the last emperors before Zormite was moved. And I made sure as hell all my members hated humans. We would NEVER allow a human to join us. I got so many pms asking if people could join as humans, but I never allowed one, just as noone before me did. To think that 5 minutes later after 2k1 zormite story ended somehow the entire world of Zormite changed is stupid. Zormite was the greatest empire to the end. This little republic is not Zormite.

Again, this is all many years old and not even relevant today. I am not just saying "he is stating opinion" but this last two sentances are obviously only that. They have no substance, no basis. I can agree that the republic is not what zormite was, but it sure is what zormite is today. He cannot change that Zormite has had a long history to date, much of which without him. His desire for that to simply 'not count' amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

I have the right to smack you in the freakin face. Everytime you someone says something you can't respond to, you say "in your opinion".

It's getting pretty annoying.

That last part was cute, but still meaningless. I can and did respond to everything, and now, even the stuff that wasn't worth responding to. As for his "in your opinion" comments, I am sorry but an opinion is just that. If I say "the ferrys take way too long and need to be changed" that is opinion. If I say "the ferrys take way too long and need to be changed because you can sail back and forth in a ship 8 times before catching a ferry" then there is a fact attached, though in this case, a false one since the ferries are fine. My point is, there is a such thing as an opinion, and if he doesn't want to hear that "his opinion" is not a mandate, then he shouldn't have everything rest on his opinions.

[Zurkiba]

-_-

Why are you so hypocritical?

Zormites cant turn into fishes in a day but they can turn into humans.

Your logic is flawed, they have NOT roleplayed for ages. They sat there and called themselves humans.

[GryffonDurime]

The Name Zormite is Hiyru's intelletual property, is it not? So Nappa can make a case for it if Hiryu supports him, just as Dustari's name is...Well, is Asuka's, or Zulithes?

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

The Name Zormite is Hiyru's intelletual property, is it not? So Nappa can make a case for it if Hiryu supports him, just as Dustari's name is...Well, is Asuka's, or Zulithes?

Unless zormite was created outside of graal and had prior legal copyrights, any content added, post, or uploaded to GK becomes the intellectual property of Cyberjoueurs. If you create content for GK or another server, for instance, you cannot pull 'your' content later, Cyberjoueurs specifically is protected from that. It is technically against the rules to post content that is already copyrighted by another source that could cause conflicts for Cyberjoueurs, though it is technically possible that it could happen. Because of that, Hiryu has no more right to change or rename Zormite than I have the right to change the Dustari Cathedral or something.

[Nappa]

What he fails to realize that his logic is flawed in that it can work both ways.

If Zormite can't just turn into fish, how come they can just turn into humans ?

[busyrobot]

My logic is sound, you are the ones saying they can turn into fish. Regarding the KJ vs. Dustari issue, that is an inter-kingdom example, and has nothing to do with the internals of a kingdom's structure, that happens to be entirely up to the people that make up that kingdom.
I even said, that it is not the height of RP to have fish turn into humans, you can take that up with unixmad or stefan or zen or whoever setup zormite on GK for the first time. However, it has long since has been human.

You say "but they have always been fish" and I am sorry, but you are wrong, you haven't been playing, you have no idea what Zormite is outside of your head. You are trying to make abstract ideas more real than what is in front of you: the actual face of Zormite, as it has developed and played out over the last several years. Dustarians did not have a fetish for fish....nor would I accept your randomly bastardizing our history over the last several years just so you can implement one idea that hasn't even been used during the lifetime of GK, and is also not wanted by that kingdom's members.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

My logic is sound, you are the ones saying they can turn into fish. Regarding the KJ vs. Dustari issue, that is an inter-kingdom example, and has nothing to do with the internals of a kingdom's structure, that happens to be entirely up to the people that make up that kingdom.
I even said, that it is not the height of RP to have fish turn into humans, you can take that up with unixmad or stefan or zen or whoever setup zormite on GK for the first time. However, it has long since has been human.

You say "but they have always been fish" and I am sorry, but you are wrong, you haven't been playing, you have no idea what Zormite is outside of your head. You are trying to make abstract ideas more real than what is in front of you: the actual face of Zormite, as it has developed and played out over the last several years. Dustarians did not have a fetish for fish....nor would I accept your randomly bastardizing our history over the last several years just so you can implement one idea that hasn't even been used during the lifetime of GK, and is also not wanted by that kingdom's members.

-_-

You're too ignorant and hard headed to argue with. You're a broken record which keeps repeating things after they have been proven wrong.

I'll reply to a post when a good point is actually made.