I cross the lands of graal today..

[Discharge]

1.You see, you agree that there is more then just killing. Therefore its unnecessary to have a level system when clearly there is other things a player can achieve as a goal. We want people to role-play and not spend all of their time trying to elevate themselves to some high level. Role-playing is what we want because that is the main point of this game. However, the game has turned out to be just reaching higher levels taking away role-playing time. We don’t even have closely as much role-playing events as we did in Graal Kingdoms. Why? Because everyone is down there in the dungeons hacking and slashing themselves all day. Is it that fun to bore yourself by pressing the S button all day on these so call monsters? Do you really enjoy spending hundreds of hours in a dungeon or would you prefer to go out and be in role-playing events? People don’t just stop leveling as you’ve mention, they keep going only to be the strongest or so they can kill other people. Many of the other players have pointed out that were spending way too much time leveling and way too little time role-playing. Our ranks are based on how strong we are instead on how good we role-play. We have horrible role-players as leaders and therefore have a horrible role-playing kingdom. It all trickles down, bad role-playing leaders lead to bad role-playing people. All because we promote the highest leveler, I’m sure when you were in Samurai people with high levels were given to good positions. In Graal2001 we didn’t spend all of our time in dungeons, instead we role-played and we gave the high-ranking positions to good role-players. We can say compared to Graal Kingdoms that Graal2001 was more of a success in role-playing then Kingdoms was. Graal Kingdoms was to be mainly role-playing and ironically it turns out to be worst then Graal2001.

2. No, you did not understand what I meant. I do not mean when you kill someone you get an actual experience points added to you for killing a player. I meant you get experience knowing how to use the keyboard and what buttons to press such as the right arrow or when to hit the space bar, like in Graal2001 sparring rooms. Now you failed to comprehend what I was trying to tell you. A strong player can kill someone with one or two swings, on the other hand it would take 57 swings to take out that same player even when his just standing there. Yes, you can kill someone in two hits, it’s happen to me at level 8 there's no point arguing over that when its true and I‘m living proof. Now I have not seen what the new town has to offer because simply I don’t find Graal Kingdoms a good role-playing server and therefore I don‘t play often.

4. Shouldn’t three or four accountants be able to take out a marine? In the game, 3 or 4 players cannot take out a more trained player. Heck, you sometimes can even barely even scratch the person, the more trained player would wipe them all out. In the very few role-playing battle events we’ve had, you have one or two guys beating the living snot out of everyone. You pretty much know who is going to win when you see your fellow kingdom members being slashed away in one or two swings. Yea, I heard you often let people hit you to make it more “rpish” but not everyone is like you.

5. Graal2001 was a hybrid because it carried elements of Classic and a new element of role-playing. There was a lot of things in Graal2001 that did not fit in with the role-playing atmosphere simply enough because it was not intended to solely be a role-playing server. Graal Kingdoms on the other had was made to be a role-playing server which has became something other then what it was indented be. Now as you remember, I said there will not be a 100% success but it will notably improve role-playing. All we have to do is look at why role-playing in Graal2001 and why was it better then Graal Kingdoms role-playing. Simple, we didn’t have this leveling systems and have people spend hundreds of hours in these dungeons. They were all on top and talking with each other. Yes there was player killers in Graal2001 but you have to remember it was not a role-playing only server! It has the elements of Classic and the people of Graal Classic just killed everyone. So we have these two elements being put together into one server, of course there was a good amount of player killers but they didn’t terrorize like they do now because in Graal Kingdoms they can’t be stop. You can’t fend off the aggressors because they are so godly strong and you can’t even get friends to jump him because he can annihilate a whole army.

6. And you can’t inculpate everything on alchemy. We have two predicaments
here, leveling and alchemy. Both are destroying role-playing so what does that tell you? It should tell you that we need expunge these elements out. Graal2001 was not a utopia of role-playing but these elements were not in Graal2001 however, Graal2001 still remains better as a role-playing server then what Graal Kingdom is currently. Now this will not 100% take out all the obnoxious players but it will certainly meliorate Graal Kingdoms.

[Shrimp Okonomiyaki]

I'm not going to make a long post because its starting to tire me, so I will simply make a short statement for each.

1. People can get bored of RPing all the time just as they can get bored of leveling all the time.

2. Chances are that a player who has taken the time to achieve a high level has probably also has more skill at the sword, although this is not always the case, it usually is most of the time. Theres ways around it such as how the most successful merchant may be able to afford a good weapon and be strong without excessive training.

4. Point taken, but no 3 or 4 accountants probably couldn't kill a Marine. No everyone is not RPish, thats the point I have been making, and part of the problem is them, its not all the system.

5. Just because you say something is a RP server doesn't make it so that no one will kill, half the people don't even know its supposed to be RP. The system doesn't need to be nerfed it just needs a little tweaking, besides remember the server is far from done, so don't get your knickers in a twist so soon.

6. I'm sorry you can't just rub out leveling and the weapons and everything, if thats what you want then just go and play 2001. I personally think that 2002 shouldn't have been made an RP server, it should be considered a fantasy server where players can RP if they choose.

[Googi]

RPing is ruined by both poor RPers AND the level system.

[Discharge]

1. You said it yourself, there is not only going to be role-playing but there will be events, searching for better weapons/armory, becoming wealthy, fighting in battlefields. Yes, people can get bored but that will be in a very long time like you would get bored in any game in this world. Every game has its time but that's not the point, this server was to appeal to all the role-players, instead we’ve brought in a lot of non-role-players. Look at the kingdom Islands, not a fly even lands there, were all in the main island in the dungeons trying to elevate ourselves to godly levels. I agree, we need strict role-playing rules, this will also lower the percentage of obnoxious players. Taking out levels system and getting rid of alchemy will also lower the amount of obnoxious players. Your right, there will always be people killing others because they like to see other people suffer but doesn't mean we can’t lower the amount of people like that into the server.

2. We can’t go on probably, what it really means is that those players just have a lot free time and a lot of patients to be in those dungeons for hundreds of hours. Then they get the high ranks and ruin the kingdoms role-playing. Like I said before, it all trickles down and they recruit awful people into their kingdom.


4. 4 accountants can take out a Marine. Not everyone are role-players because the game is attracting non-role-players from how the game is being developed. No strict role-playing rules are present so its allowing greater people to continue to kill others in non role-playing way. Again, the way its being developed will never be a role-playing server but your typical hack & slash RPG which is not what we wanted.

5. In role-playing, people do get killed but in a role-playing sense. Of course its still far from being done and that's why were here so when Graal Kingdoms is basically completed there won’t be role-playing problems. That's what this debate is all about, making sure Graal Kingdom gets developed as a role-playing server as it was indented to be and not into a hack & slash from all the non role-playing people that are currently playing.

6. Who said I wanted to expunge the weapons? You are the one that wants get rid of all alchemy weapons and armor. No one is in 2001 anymore but a few admins picking their nose and 1 or 2 players just checking the place out. I'm here to hopefully change how Graal Kingdoms is being developed as most of us try to do and have done with other servers with different problems. It should be consider what it was suppose to be considered and that was a ROLE-PLAYING SERVER.

[Googi]

Nearly everyone agrees that RPing on 2K1 was better than it was on 2K2. Now, you can say that both were good, or both were bad, but either way, 2K1 was better. Now, both 2K1 and 2K2 had obnoxious *****s, now, you can say they made RPing bad, but they made RPing equally bad on both servers. So it's something else besides obnoxious *****s that's making RPing on 2K2 worse than RPing was on 2K1.

[ZeroFXSM]

Um Hello.

I think many people would stop playing graal without a level system.

Ok.

Bye.

[Shrimp Okonomiyaki]

Originally posted by Googi
Nearly everyone agrees that RPing on 2K1 was better than it was on 2K2. Now, you can say that both were good, or both were bad, but either way, 2K1 was better. Now, both 2K1 and 2K2 had obnoxious *****s, now, you can say they made RPing bad, but they made RPing equally bad on both servers. So it's something else besides obnoxious *****s that's making RPing on 2K2 worse than RPing was on 2K1.

Yes 2002 RPing is worse then 2001, but the reason people don't go to 2001 is because, *gasp* 2001 was incredibally boring when you weren't RPing. You maybe got to RP for an hour or two before it was split up, then what happened? You sat around in the market or the admin house or your own house. There wasn't much to do, the 2002 system provides players with things to do when not RPing, Graal isn't a giant game with thousands of players like Furc where you can always find a good RP, so periodically theres times when you need something else to entertain you. Thats where leveling and browsing shops and bargaining with others. Yeah there were markets on 2001 but what the hell could you really buy that had any point? Hats? Honestly....

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Shrimp Okonomiyaki


Yes 2002 RPing is worse then 2001, but the reason people don't go to 2001 is because, *gasp* 2001 was incredibally boring when you weren't RPing. You maybe got to RP for an hour or two before it was split up, then what happened? You sat around in the market or the admin house or your own house. There wasn't much to do, the 2002 system provides players with things to do when not RPing, Graal isn't a giant game with thousands of players like Furc where you can always find a good RP, so periodically theres times when you need something else to entertain you. Thats where leveling and browsing shops and bargaining with others. Yeah there were markets on 2001 but what the hell could you really buy that had any point? Hats? Honestly....

So. Very. True.

Well put.

[brock128]

I think the reason RPing was so popular on 2k1 was because it was out of the way. Also, the world was much smaller, and the RP areas were more focused, so you could find a fellow RPer easily.

[Discharge]

Originally posted by Shrimp Okonomiyaki


Yes 2002 RPing is worse then 2001, but the reason people don't go to 2001 is because, *gasp* 2001 was incredibally boring when you weren't RPing. You maybe got to RP for an hour or two before it was split up, then what happened? You sat around in the market or the admin house or your own house. There wasn't much to do, the 2002 system provides players with things to do when not RPing, Graal isn't a giant game with thousands of players like Furc where you can always find a good RP, so periodically theres times when you need something else to entertain you. Thats where leveling and browsing shops and bargaining with others. Yeah there were markets on 2001 but what the hell could you really buy that had any point? Hats? Honestly....

The reason why people don’t go back is because Graal2001 is old and Graal Kingdom is new. People will generally prefer to play a game that is more updated in all aspects of it, oppose to play a older version of it. In addition, there has been an attempt to revive Graal2001 by adding new kingdom names, the excitement only lasted about a week with a max of 30 players playing. Nothing new was really added but it still attracted people including myself to the server. Its been shown when things are added to a server, people will begin go there to see the new stuff out. Eventually, people will begin leaving the server. Graal Kingdoms had times when there has been very FEW players in what would be normally peak times, however when you add something new, people will go back. Look at it right now, before there would just be 40-50 players in peak time. Now with the new addition of the Hotaru town people are returning and the player population has reached in the 80’s. There has not been any major additions to Graal2001 so don’t expect it to be popular all over again anytime soon. Now Graal kingdoms always gets new updates so its been relatively keeping a good size of players from Graal Golden standards. Keep feeding them new stuff and they will come, stop and they will leave. This is fact.

-Fin

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Discharge


The reason why people don’t go back is because Graal2001 is old and Graal Kingdom is new. People will generally prefer to play a game that is more updated in all aspects of it, oppose to play a older version of it. In addition, there has been an attempt to revive Graal2001 by adding new kingdom names, the excitement only lasted about a week with a max of 30 players playing. Nothing new was really added but it still attracted people including myself to the server. Its been shown when things are added to a server, people will begin go there to see the new stuff out. Eventually, people will begin leaving the server. Graal Kingdoms had times when there has been very FEW players in what would be normally peak times, however when you add something new, people will go back. Look at it right now, before there would just be 40-50 players in peak time. Now with the new addition of the Hotaru town people are returning and the player population has reached in the 80’s. There has not been any major additions to Graal2001 so don’t expect it to be popular all over again anytime soon.

So your saying that if someone were to create a identical server to graal2001, with fresh new awesome graphics... Everyone would play that server?

[Discharge]

Originally posted by ZeroFXSM


So your saying that if someone were to create a identical server to graal2001, with fresh new awesome graphics... Everyone would play that server?

Uh, yes? Wouldn't you?

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Discharge


Uh, yes? Wouldn't you?

I rather kill monsters and find treasures and explore dungeons then...

Work all day making bread and buying hats so I can have a few cool looking graphics.

[Discharge]

Originally posted by ZeroFXSM


I rather kill monsters and find treasures and explore dungeons then...

Work all day making bread and buying hats so I can have a few cool looking graphics.

Here is a game for you, DIABLO 2. You can kill and spend hundreds of hours in the dungeons all you want.

And if there was a "new Graal2001" im sure they would add other things besides hats.

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Discharge


Here is a game for you, DIABLO 2. You can kill and spend hundreds of hours in the dungeons all you want.

And if there was a "new Graal2001" im sure they would add other things besides hats.

HELLO!!!!!!

Thats getting insulting. You think I don't enjoy Role playing? On both graal 2001 and graal kingdoms theres roleplaying. and the chance and ability to roleplay on both.

Its just that, people won't role play 24 hours. It gets tiring. People want to do something else.

And as I stated before.

I rather kill monsters, get loot, go exploring.

Then

Make Bread, and buy hats and bomys so I have special cute graphics!

[Discharge]

Originally posted by ZeroFXSM


HELLO!!!!!!

Thats getting insulting. You think I don't enjoy Role playing? On both graal 2001 and graal kingdoms theres roleplaying. and the chance and ability to roleplay on both.

Its just that, people won't role play 24 hours. It gets tiring. People want to do something else.

And as I stated before.

I rather kill monsters, get loot, go exploring.

Then

Make Bread, and buy hats and bomys so I have special cute graphics!

This pencil in my hand could care more.

You just gave the same argument what Shrimpie Oyakamaikayakia mention before and my answer is in long and detail replies in the posts before this.

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Discharge


My keyboard could care more then me.

You just gave the same argument what Shrimpie Oyakamaikayakia mention before and my answer is in long and detail replies in the posts before this.

If you didn't care, you don't have to respond with what you responded with.

If I gave the same arguement as shrimpie gave, then that means I agree. Is there anything wrong with that?

[Discharge]

Originally posted by ZeroFXSM


If you didn't care, you don't have to respond with what you responded with.

If I gave the same arguement as shrimpie gave, then that means I agree. Is there anything wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with agreeing, but just pointing out your argument has been mention before and has been answered so you could look at my reply.

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Discharge


Nothing wrong with agreeing, but just pointing out your argument has been mention before and has been answered so you could look at my reply.

Look back a bit. I was responding to the "If graal2001 was new, then people would play it"

[brock128]

New Graal 2001, if it were EXACTLY the same, except for graphics, would be popular for 1-5 days, then die. Just like when they reset Graal 2001.

[Shrimp Okonomiyaki]

Originally posted by Discharge


Here is a game for you, DIABLO 2. You can kill and spend hundreds of hours in the dungeons all you want.

And if there was a "new Graal2001" im sure they would add other things besides hats.

Oh for christ sake now that was just uncalled for.
He isn't the one trying to change 2002, you are.
He likes it the way it is so its natural that he should want to stay, if anyone needs to leave its you. If you want a strict role-play game with no Hack n' Slash, then go play Furcadia or Valikoria, and leave the rest of us alone. I've heard your case, and I've listened to as much as I could, I agree there needs to be some changes but what you want is too extreme, you want them to basically remake the entire system. I'd rather not get stuck waiting forever for that to get done when they can finish a perfectly fine system they have now, so its not strictly RP, deal with it. It'll be easier to change the description of the server then it will the server itself.

[Discharge]

Originally posted by Shrimp Okonomiyaki

Oh for christ sake now that was just uncalled for.
He isn't the one trying to change 2002, you are.
He likes it the way it is so its natural that he should want to stay, if anyone needs to leave its you. If you want a strict role-play game with no Hack n' Slash, then go play Furcadia or Valikoria, and leave the rest of us alone. I've heard your case, and I've listened to as much as I could, I agree there needs to be some changes but what you want is too extreme, you want them to basically remake the entire system. I'd rather not get stuck waiting forever for that to get done when they can finish a perfectly fine system they have now, so its not strictly RP, deal with it. It'll be easier to change the description of the server then it will the server itself.

Whoa Okomoko, I have the right to suggest, show my ideas and I’m not departing until I see a good decent role-playing in this game. Now in regards with “Go Play Diablo2,” I wasn't literally saying go play Diablo but what I was referring to is that if that is how you see Graal2002 then Graal2002 would be no better then Diablo2. You make it sound like if everyone was on your side. “Leave us along” There is a lot of role-players out there that feel the same way. This server is not near completion, its still being heavily develop through our ideas and so is why we can still change it while its in early stages of development. It is preposterous of the idea that we can’t change the server, we’ve considerably done a lot of innovations and is why I see no reason to alternate the path we are heading.

[Shrimp Okonomiyaki]

Originally posted by Discharge


Whoa Okomoko, I have the right to suggest, show my ideas and I’m not departing until I see a good decent role-playing in this game. Now in regards with “Go Play Diablo2,” I wasn't literally saying go play Diablo but what I was referring to is that if that is how you see Graal2002 then Graal2002 would be no better then Diablo2. You make it sound like if everyone was on your side. “Leave us along” There is a lot of role-players out there that feel the same way. This server is not near completion, its still being heavily develop through our ideas and so is why we can still change it while its in early stages of development. It is preposterous of the idea that we can’t change the server, we’ve considerably done a lot of innovations and is why I see no reason to alternate the path we are heading.

For one, you are talking about reinvention of just about every existing concept on the server, and second I meant us as in the people who don't believe the server needs such extreme alterations.

[DragonX]

Originally posted by Discharge


Whoa Okomoko, I have the right to suggest, show my ideas and I’m not departing until I see a good decent role-playing in this game. Now in regards with “Go Play Diablo2,” I wasn't literally saying go play Diablo but what I was referring to is that if that is how you see Graal2002 then Graal2002 would be no better then Diablo2. You make it sound like if everyone was on your side. “Leave us along” There is a lot of role-players out there that feel the same way. This server is not near completion, its still being heavily develop through our ideas and so is why we can still change it while its in early stages of development. It is preposterous of the idea that we can’t change the server, we’ve considerably done a lot of innovations and is why I see no reason to alternate the path we are heading.

It's a little past the midstages at this point in time. Stefan will not change the whole system for a couple of people. If you want to suggest stuff, suggest stuff that has some relevance to what is going on in this point in time, not something that was a problem long ago. It's not that there are horrible roleplayers. It's that people care more about items then roleplaying. I would roleplay but it's so boring, nobody else roleplays so why should I. When I see that other people roleplay then I might join in. I mean I am one of those people who care for my items, but not THAT much to quit roleplaying forever. I want the old kingdom leaders back, the original ones, without them GK is boring, (No offense to kingdom leaders of today, it's just that its true, without the original leaders, it feels awkward or whatever)

[Discharge]

Originally posted by DragonX


It's a little past the midstages at this point in time. Stefan will not change the whole system for a couple of people. If you want to suggest stuff, suggest stuff that has some relevance to what is going on in this point in time, not something that was a problem long ago. It's not that there are horrible roleplayers. It's that people care more about items then roleplaying. I would roleplay but it's so boring, nobody else roleplays so why should I. When I see that other people roleplay then I might join in. I mean I am one of those people who care for my items, but not THAT much to quit roleplaying forever. I want the old kingdom leaders back, the original ones, without them GK is boring, (No offense to kingdom leaders of today, it's just that its true, without the original leaders, it feels awkward or whatever)

This server looks far from done in my eyes. Perhaps its not exactly in its early stages however its not near completion. Its never to late and I find it very relevent to change the course of the server in order to preserve a good role-playing atmoshphere.

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Discharge






This server looks far from done in my eyes. Perhaps its not exactly in its early stages however its not near completion. Its never to late and I find it very relevent to change the course of the server in order to preserve a good role-playing atmoshphere.

Hey buddy,

You have the right to freedom of speech. But it doesn't give you the right to insult me. Saying "Go play Diablo II" as if I only know how to hack and slash.

Just because I enjoy dungeons, Does not mean I cannot role play or I DO NOT ROLE PLAY

[Discharge]

Originally posted by ZeroFXSM


Hey buddy,

You have the right to freedom of speech. But it doesn't give you the right to insult me. Saying "Go play Diablo II" as if I only know how to hack and slash.

Just because I enjoy dungeons, Does not mean I cannot role play or I DO NOT ROLE PLAY

Never implied your incapable of role-playing but you seem to be more intrested in a general sense of H & S'ing.

[Judge_S]

Originally posted by Discharge


Never implied your incapable of role-playing but you seem to be more intrested in a general sense of H & S'ing.

Personally, I'd rather hack and slash and get better equipment (at least for a while) than run back and for between a mill and an oven.

But on the other side, those tedious button-mashing jobs have really improved since they were first introduced on 2001.

[ZeroFXSM]

Originally posted by Discharge


Never implied your incapable of role-playing but you seem to be more intrested in a general sense of H & S'ing.

Just because I like to go dungeon hunting does not mean I'm more interested in hack and slash.

The statement I am tring to make clear (Just as Judge_S) said. is that I rather have dungeons then have stores with alot of pretty hats and hitting s all day just to make bread.