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View Poll Results: Classic Server should..?
be left as it is. 4 6.15%
bring back it's original levels and hit detection. 51 78.46%
bring back ONLY the original levels but leave the hit detection as is. 1 1.54%
bring back ONLY the original hit detection but leave the levels as is. 9 13.85%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-09-2009, 09:38 PM
xnervNATx xnervNATx is offline
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Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Three things too many.
40 minutes is nothing lol
if u speed up u can take less time.
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2009, 09:41 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xnervNATx View Post
40 minutes is nothing lol
if u speed up u can take less time.
40 minutes of forced, linear gameplay in an online game is a lot. I liked Classic when it was log on, get told where to go and go if I wanted to. Not, log onto Classic, do a boring tutorial, do a forced quest, finally think I'm done and get 'kidnapped' to do another forced quest, and never seeing a player during any of this or more than a few of the overworld levels.

Also, the time varies between people. It may have taken you 40 minutes but it wasn't that quick for me.
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  #3  
Old 05-09-2009, 11:32 PM
BlackSolider BlackSolider is offline
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The difference between RPG games (Oblivion, fallout3, final fantasy, etc.) and online games is that rpg games are single player: your character level doesn't prohibit you from competing in the game, it just makes certain parts much harder until you character is at a higher level.

The thing about classic is that since everyone who plays has 8 hp, anyone new to the server that doesn't do the questing immediately is at a severe disadvantage in many aspects of our server. The main excuse people come up with is "well GCs can just give them HP in events, and people can drop hp when they spar". Really? It's pretty annoying to have to click on people 4 times every time they do something, and this doesn't count events like CTF where they always have 6 hp, which is a massive handicap for that team.

I've always believed that if you truly plan on playing a server, you need to do the quests ASAP to make sure you're at a competitive level. Whether we should force people to do them or not doesn't matter to me, but why not knock them out of the way early? Maybe people would still do them early on, but perhaps they don't want to be "forced" to do them.
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  #4  
Old 05-09-2009, 11:45 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSolider View Post
The difference between RPG games (Oblivion, fallout3, final fantasy, etc.) and online games is that rpg games are single player: your character level doesn't prohibit you from competing in the game, it just makes certain parts much harder until you character is at a higher level.
In RPG's your character level CAN prohibit you from beating bosses and such. However this doesn't always apply to just RPG's. Like I said, Zeld ais a very good example.

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Originally Posted by BlackSolider View Post
I've always believed that if you truly plan on playing a server, you need to do the quests ASAP to make sure you're at a competitive level. Whether we should force people to do them or not doesn't matter to me, but why not knock them out of the way early? Maybe people would still do them early on, but perhaps they don't want to be "forced" to do them.
That's the thing, you don't NEED to do anything. They can if they WANT to, is usually how players like it. Allow players to knock them out early, just don't force them to knock them out early.
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  #5  
Old 05-09-2009, 11:33 PM
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The Tutorial and Intro can be skipped, for those that aren't aware you could try logging onto a guest account assuming you haven't logged on with one already.
Also the Castle Quest has only ever been forced for trial accounts.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2009, 12:21 AM
jacob_bald6225 jacob_bald6225 is offline
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It really is ****ing frustrating being a player on Classic. NOTHING worthwhile has been added to the server in FIVE YEARS. Everyone for FIVE YEARS has wanted the old levels from one generation or another. The people in charge for FIVE YEARS have said you can't please everyone with a level pack so it never goes there. But instead, for FIVE YEARS they have pleased nobody.

FIVE YEARS of avoiding the old content and building ****ing 'systems' so that we can get better content. I truly believe nothing will ever come of Classic.

Everyone involved in the development of the server for the last FIVE YEARS are complete and undeniable failures and do not deserve to be in charge of such great content-- it would better offline.


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Originally Posted by Polo View Post
Right. I became Classic Manager in April 2004, so thats 8 to 9 months ago, and straight away myself and Selflon started working on the NPC server trying to continue where Tyhm had left it. The problem was we had no kind of working movement for the server, and stuff like bombs and bows were just screwed.

Nothing was working properly, and by converting the existing classic it just meant that it was getting buggier by the day. After just over amonth it was decided that it was too messy/broken to continue, and so the server was wiped clean. This was about 7 months ago now. With a fresh server, I set about touching up a few of the main levels and getting asmall overworld up so that I had room top develop on. At this point I also made it so normal players could log on, thus providing me with feedback.

Over the next few months, I worked on various script and behind the scenes stuff such as totally rescripting the movement, and adding various chat based command, and reworking the Staff Tool's, basically ensuring that a tight framework was ready, making it easy for us to develop for, allowing to develop quests and the like a lot fast that we could before wiping.

At the start of October (3 months ago), I moved to university, and the ports for Graal are blocked here, so I can only get on from one of the copmputing labs (although they are sorting our the ports for me). This meant I couldn't really work during this time. In the 3 weeks I was home for christmas I worked like a small demigod to get the NPC Server ready to a playable state.

Now when you ask me why theres little in the way of content, realize that I've not had the 3 years of development time you all seem to think I've had. Also realise that classic was at a point where it simply no longer represented the history of graal, thats another reason why the content is gone. I'm by no means lazy, so please, be patient with me.

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  #7  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:15 AM
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:30 AM
jacob_bald6225 jacob_bald6225 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
I like to prefer the term a switch of priorities.

If we'd had more time we'd have done loadsa quests n stuff, but alas we didn't I dont think the server was not ready to go up, but I think it could be a lot more complete. Hence, I dont think it was rushed.
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:08 AM
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I think you mean "". That makes posts good.
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  #10  
Old 05-11-2009, 05:25 AM
Terazel Tenjin Terazel Tenjin is offline
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Originally Posted by jacob_bald6225 View Post
It really is ****ing frustrating being a player on Classic. NOTHING worthwhile has been added to the server in FIVE YEARS. Everyone for FIVE YEARS has wanted the old levels from one generation or another. The people in charge for FIVE YEARS have said you can't please everyone with a level pack so it never goes there. But instead, for FIVE YEARS they have pleased nobody.

FIVE YEARS of avoiding the old content and building ****ing 'systems' so that we can get better content. I truly believe nothing will ever come of Classic.

Everyone involved in the development of the server for the last FIVE YEARS are complete and undeniable failures and do not deserve to be in charge of such great content-- it would better offline.


Edit: I quit and urge anyone else with any common sense left to abandon ship. If you need me im on AIM
(DESTROYER STROYER is my aim)
Clearly, Classic continues to be a failure solely due to the fact that DC was not promoted to Manager.

Also, not that I think the revised Nations plan would have completely saved the server (even if it wasn't snuffed by the Dev Admin and Manager of the time; different Dev Admin but same Manager!), but it would have provided a decent breathing room to develop other things once the system was in place and the system became mostly player-driven/self-autonomous. But then again, five years is a lot of "breathing space" as well, same with the Mario Party theme the server seems to have completely leaned on since the server essentially suffered the classic case of "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians" to pursue a solid objective for the server.

Is Classic up to standard as a server compared to all other "Classic" servers online? If not, why is it still open?

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I think you mean "". That makes posts good.
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  #11  
Old 05-11-2009, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terazel Tenjin View Post
Is Classic up to standard as a server compared to all other "Classic" servers online? If not, why is it still open?
No, it is not up to standards. Why it's still open remains a mystery.
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  #12  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:40 AM
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Well we stand corrected on the forced graal castle quest, but I still think OSL should be changed to a more centralized location.
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  #13  
Old 05-11-2009, 02:47 AM
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but I still think OSL should be changed to a more centralized location.
Moving the starting point will not fix anything.
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:20 AM
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Moving the starting point will not fix anything.
Yes it will.
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  #15  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:29 AM
xnervNATx xnervNATx is offline
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Yes it will.
wtf no its wont , having the osl in the bank (exemple) will not fix anything at all
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  #16  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:39 AM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
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Actually, I change my mind. This is all completely opinionated. I feel as it will make a difference. Whether you think it will or not is an opinion.
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:42 AM
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How would changing the OSL magically attract more players? To be honest, that's got to be one of the dumbest comments made in this whole thread. What Classic really needs is content that is not related to GCs.
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:44 AM
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Hmmm, I don't recall saying changing the OSL would "magically attract players". Hell I recall myself just saying it would be better just to move it there. Changing the OSL would make players feel as there actually is life around them on the server.

I'm not sure how being boarded up in brothers house or tule village start house is any better, but do explain.

And also, Classic is working on content, so there is no debate there.
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticX2X View Post
Hmmm, I don't recall saying changing the OSL would "magically attract players". Hell I recall myself just saying it would be better just to move it there. Changing the OSL would make players feel as there actually is life around them on the server.

I'm not sure how being boarded up in brothers house or tule village start house is any better, but do explain.

And also, Classic is working on content, so there is no debate there.
Yes, they've been working on content for how long now?
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  #20  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:52 AM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
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Dev may be slow, but Content has been released periodically. However, that depends on your perspective of content.
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  #21  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
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Dev may be slow, but Content has been released periodically. However, that depends on your perspective of content.
Any content that doesn't relate to GC?
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  #22  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:44 AM
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It's not the progenitor.
It's not the standard.
It's not the default.
It's not Official.

It's just kinda subpar. Which is too bad, I bloody love the server I left behind when I got a job...
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  #23  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:52 AM
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  #24  
Old 05-11-2009, 01:48 PM
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This thread started May 3th and is still hot for answers while we are exactly 1 week furthur.
Again a week of no development. Again a week of many ideas on a forum. The ignorance of the staff is the biggest problem. They are not open for ideas because if so, I think atleast something was added along time ago. While we keep talking about how classic should develope, I think it's time we should discuss how to leave classic. Just pull the plug out?
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  #25  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchGuy View Post
This thread started May 3th and is still hot for answers while we are exactly 1 week furthur.
Again a week of no development. Again a week of many ideas on a forum. The ignorance of the staff is the biggest problem. They are not open for ideas because if so, I think atleast something was added along time ago. While we keep talking about how classic should develope, I think it's time we should discuss how to leave classic. Just pull the plug out?
I agree, if the staff can't even take into consideration what players want, and won't test anything to benefit their player count, then pull the plug. All the current "DEAD" classic servers should be taken down. There is no future chance for them, classic is the only one with potential, sadly the staff don't seem to care. All these dead servers do is steal a healthy player count from active servers and hold their staff hostage to waste time. IMO Classic is the only server that could make a come back, NP and Delt don't stand a chance.
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Old 05-11-2009, 03:29 PM
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IMO Classic is the only server that could make a come back, NP and Delt don't stand a chance.
Lmao.
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  #27  
Old 05-11-2009, 03:40 PM
xnervNATx xnervNATx is offline
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I agree, if the staff can't even take into consideration what players want, and won't test anything to benefit their player count, then pull the plug.
one question.

why are you still here THEN wtf? and ill repeat myself again(like i said to kill)
staff are not obligated to do what players ask or else players would rules to server without being a staff, if you really want something to happend, WAIT.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:25 PM
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one question.

why are you still here THEN wtf? and ill repeat myself again(like i said to kill)
staff are not obligated to do what players ask or else players would rules to server without being a staff, if you really want something to happend, WAIT.
yeah, well if they actually care for the server and care for their jobs, they would listen to the players.

I don't care if they are obligated or not, see the bigger picture and open your eyes before you open your mouth.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2009, 08:30 PM
xnervNATx xnervNATx is offline
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yeah, well if they actually care for the server and care for their jobs, they would listen to the players.

I don't care if they are obligated or not, see the bigger picture and open your eyes before you open your mouth.

if u read my post again you will notice i did not write "to listen" but "TO DO" what players players tell them to do.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2009, 09:11 PM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
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This thread started May 3th and is still hot for answers while we are exactly 1 week furthur.
Again a week of no development. Again a week of many ideas on a forum. The ignorance of the staff is the biggest problem. They are not open for ideas because if so, I think atleast something was added along time ago. While we keep talking about how classic should develope, I think it's time we should discuss how to leave classic. Just pull the plug out?
Probably because you're very ignorant to believe that taking a year of development to restore old levels will make Classic better than what can already done if the same willpower was used on newer content.
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  #31  
Old 05-12-2009, 03:07 AM
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Probably because you're very ignorant to believe that taking a year of development to restore old levels will make Classic better than what can already done if the same willpower was used on newer content.
If it was done when it should have we might have 4 years of progress instead of movement systems and disappointment.
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  #32  
Old 05-12-2009, 09:13 PM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
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If it was done when it should have we might have 4 years of progress instead of movement systems and disappointment.
I'm not sure about all the stuff that happened in the past and the reasoning behind it, but I have a fairly good idea on what can and should be done right now for Classic. There might of been errors done in the past (Hell every server has em), but the focus should be on current.
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  #33  
Old 05-13-2009, 04:03 AM
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I'm not sure about all the stuff that happened in the past and the reasoning behind it, but I have a fairly good idea on what can and should be done right now for Classic. There might of been errors done in the past (Hell every server has em), but the focus should be on current.


The focus should not be on past or current. The focus of a game is about " movin on" .
Where every other server has moved on, classic has been tearing to much on the success of the early 2000 years when classic had its highlights.
Other servers learned from that, used it to improve their own skills and made unique ideas to implent into the current servers. You can see now that Classic has not changed in improvement. Infact it has decreased its status by removing all of the content that made it so popular back in the day.

What classic should have done is keep the content , and expand from the content it had years ago, to expand the storyline, to improve npc's. heck, make a lv 2,3,4 and 5 trident, who cares.
But no, stupid people make stupid descisions and classis staff has a talent for that.
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2009, 02:55 AM
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  #35  
Old 05-12-2009, 05:01 AM
Corp1 Corp1 is offline
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How long b4 decent hit detection returns to classic (not some gimmick special room or toggle crap)?
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Old 05-12-2009, 01:33 PM
BlackSolider BlackSolider is offline
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Depends how many people, whether they currently play Classic or not, decide to dedicate some time and work on the massive project.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:35 AM
BlackSolider BlackSolider is offline
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Coulda, shoulda, woulda. That didn't happen and we can't do anything about it now. We have to move on with what we do have, no matter how little it is.
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Old 05-13-2009, 08:06 AM
acaremon02 acaremon02 is offline
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At least bring back the default HD. I realize why everyone's crying about it now... And I also feel the necessity for it.
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Old 05-13-2009, 08:13 AM
DarkCloud_PK DarkCloud_PK is offline
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It isnt as easy as simply removing the custom systems and whatnot.
A lot of classic, both the big parts down to the smallest of detail would have to be rebuilt to support default HD and movement.
Most of the GC events and tools involving any HD or movement would have to be restructured to work around default, and as we saw with the introduction of clientside HD. Even after being set up for default HD, it would alter the way most events are played, especially CTF, as we have already scene with introduction of clientside HD, which more closely resembled default HD than serverside did.
It wasn't exactly a transistion for the better, since CTF relies on players able to kill each other relatively easily. To both hold up any sort of flag defense and more importantly, being able to kill a flagcarrier who is trying to not be killed. This caused so much of an uproar in CTF that the HD was made toggleable in GC events, and mostly left to serverside.

But I digress, the main point is, it isn't a simple flick of a switch, any conversion to default systems would require exceptional amounts of scripting manpower. Not exactly what Classic has a lot of. If the little amount scripting power that we do have were diverted to reconstructing classic to handle default systems, I could see the project going into years, as in plural. All the while, development on Classic would completely stagnante, as you can't really go on and make anything worthwhile, as your scripting team is busy converting, remember?

As for the old levels before NPC server? That would take even more time than converting the current classic to default.
Fun fact: GTA as of 2004 contained over five THOUSAND levels, remember, it is over 6 years of content.
A vast majority of these levels are in gs1 of varying quality and age, and are not converted to work with the npc server.
This means all 5000+ levels would have to be converted to at LEAST clientside/serverside functionality, as well as removing and updating depreciated scripting commands.
A very thankless task to do by the way, you can barely find people that want to convert levels now for using on Classic, much less Classic as it existed in 2004 in its entirety. It isn't a fun job to convert levels, and in the end, you are left with an end product that contains none of your original work, none of your own creativity.
Needless to say, while many people say they're going to do it, help out and convert some levels, they never do stick around to do it. It is simply not fun at all to do, if you say converting levels to work with the npc server is fun, I would call you a liar. Honestly, find me a team that is capable enough, and large enough, to convert 5000 levels in a respectable time period, people that will actually stick it through one painful level after another.

Oh.
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Last edited by DarkCloud_PK; 05-13-2009 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:55 AM
-Ramirez- -Ramirez- is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK View Post
Fun fact: GTA as of 2004 contained over five THOUSAND levels, remember, it is over 6 years of content.
6000*

Quote:
<statements that make a ridiculous assumption that the majority of the levels have complex scripts in them that take hours to redo>
I think I've said this before... it's unlikely that the MAJORITY of them have that kind of complexity. I'd be willing to bet that it's not even half. All of them aren't even necessary at first. It really would NOT take that long to get something reasonable done if the proper tools (scripts for baddies and other various frequently-used things) existed. Too bad all of those tools don't even exist on the CURRENT server yet. I wonder where the problem is.
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