Gift: Warpto System for Non-RCs

[Reflux]

I thought the reasons for restricting the number of RC's were for the fopllowing reasons:

1. PW Secrity - I fail to see how update level and warpto, can be used to cause any damage on a playerworld anyhow? Sure, someone may warp around and PK people, using update level to unpause them, but there's nothing else they are going to be able to do with it anyway.

2. So the playerlist isn't cluttered with duplicates - As before, people don't have to use RC itself to use warpto and update level, thus they have no need to be on RC and shouldn't be on it, doesn't mean they shouldn't haev the warpto and update rights associated with it though.

[Projectshifter]

Originally Posted by protagonist

To that which is necessary, yes. However, there is a difference between having a bare minimum and having an efficient server. I find that GPs do their jobs better with the ability to add comments (also a function of RC) as well. Sure you can add comments with a script, but how efficient is that? How are you going to keep track of people? It's much easier to be able to make comments with some sort of format.

Actually I see that keeping it via script is much easier to keep track of. Can you do /openbanlist or so and find out who's all banned and such? It wouldn't be hard to keep a list of who is all banned, you could actually make a time-released ban where you didn't have to rely on human-error to take care of releasing players. Yes, I see how this would be SO horrible :O

Originally Posted by protagonist

Let's see.
There are no feelings of inferiority. I wouldn't want my staff feeling left out because of them lacking an RC.

LOL, so you'd rather give your staff useless and pointless things to make them feel special and not "left out" because they have what they need for their jobs? Yes, I see how not giving someone an RC because it's unneeded, they can still do their job exactly as they would before with the proper NPCs, and it wouldn't effect them. When you said earlier about LATs sending in levels, a good deal of LATs directly make backups and edit levels, which is another scenario alltogether.

Originally Posted by protagonist

As I said before, scripting is inefficient for comments. How are you supposed to follow the commonly used (and easily readible)
Date:
Time:
Reason:
format if your comments are in a string? It just seems to create needless work for scripters to make such a system, there are better things to do.

Heh, actually if you do it properly you CAN keep comments in a string... how do you think the forums do it? Ever hear of the HTML command <br \>? The standard is \n for a linebreak, and it is very possible to code a GUI which will display this all. Perhaps rather fill in the stuff automatically and what-not. Not very complicated, just would require a bit of work. "needless work for scripters", how can it necessarily be needless if we're looking at setting a mandate for it and this would allow it to be possible? Or at least some servers would get use out of it. I don't know about all the other coders, but to me, if it gets used in a legitamite way, no script is "needless work".

Originally Posted by protagonist

Those friends will just be given RCs as "LATs" or "NATs" or other such things, regardless of whether they do work or not. Friends tend to get higher positions than these anyway.

Except this will still cut down on the problem. Most FAQs/ETs/GPs etc are not necessarily friends, but they get hired honestly to my knowledge. So it might not fix 100% of the problem, but it will sure do a sufficient job.

Originally Posted by protagonist

I'm a PWA. It's my duty to comment on these things. Especially if what you say in the next bit is true.

I know you haven't realized this yet, but somehow arguing with another global over something they put time in to help the community, doesn't make you look good, nor do it do much good for the image of the global community. So yes, at times you should learn to "sit on your hands", please.

Originally Posted by protagonist

Telling the playerworlds that they have to use these NPCs isn't going to make them happy. Telling them they can't let their staff have RC is also a bad idea. I have no trouble reading the Server Options provided they list their staff in (Manager) (Co-Manager) (Admin) so the whole reading issue isn't so bad. It's not going to cut down on friend RCs either, the managers/admins who hire their friends will just make them NATs or somesuch to get around it.

Since when has our jobs been about "pleasing the playerworlds" vs. making the game better and such? Our jobs are not to make the playerworlds happy, but if that is possible we should. The whole point is to weed out non-essential staff on RC, which is made for essential-staff. It was not really a big deal with the staff= other than it being huge when it wasn't needed x.x

Originally Posted by protagonist

The RCs you are targetting -GPs, FAQs, and ETs- are not security threats. So the security issue doesn't apply so much here. The idea of RC restrictions is to minimize the amount of damage done to a playerworld if it gets attacked, not to try and impede server managers.

Actually you'd be surprised how much warping can be abused, and if you give someone RC, most servers randomly give out unnecessary rights... which isn't very smart. I don't see it as 'impeding upon server managers' as much as realizing that the server managers are given permission, rights, and power via GraalOnline, so if GraalOnline decides to limit non-essential things, I fail to see how this is a problem? The point is, that Graal does not answer to server managers, it's the other way around. Graal decides what rules apply in general, and as certain servers with GPs/ETs/FAQs etc are felt not to be needed on RC, then the policy changes. And this isn't even the discussion. The whole point was that this is a gift. Playerworlds can choose to use it or not, stop turning everything into a personal battle and grow up please because I refuse to do this in the public eye anymore. I am not going to have the global image lowered because you can't grow up. So stop this nonesense and please, if you have a problem, say it in private to me and not make a fool of yourself and the community out in the open =/ If you dare reply with a snide or indecent comment, you have just fallen a notch in my eyes.

Originally Posted by protagonist

Post script: As an afterthought, please do not tell playerworlds they can't have GPs/ETs/FAQs with RC. Somebody came to me and accused you of such.

I really could care less what I am accused of, and if I did say something, you should take it up privately with me. Actually, they should take it up privately with me. And if you cared to investigate, I'm sure you'd fidn that this was on a development world, where, as the rules state, they are not to have non-developmental staff. kthanxbai
-Projectshifter

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

Actually I see that keeping it via script is much easier to keep track of. Can you do /openbanlist or so and find out who's all banned and such? It wouldn't be hard to keep a list of who is all banned, you could actually make a time-released ban where you didn't have to rely on human-error to take care of releasing players. Yes, I see how this would be SO horrible :O

What if the script gets tampered with? There goes your ban list. You've got to factor in those maintaining the script.
Maybe if that feature was added in 3.0 RC, there wouldn't be a need.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

LOL, so you'd rather give your staff useless and pointless things to make them feel special and not "left out" because they have what they need for their jobs? Yes, I see how not giving someone an RC because it's unneeded, they can still do their job exactly as they would before with the proper NPCs, and it wouldn't effect them. When you said earlier about LATs sending in levels, a good deal of LATs directly make backups and edit levels, which is another scenario alltogether.

I'd rather my staff be *happy*. Happy means staff are in happy moods, treat the players nice; which in turn makes the players happy, and the happy players will stay on my server.
Futhermore, it's not a question of making them feel special; it's a question of making them feel wanted.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

Heh, actually if you do it properly you CAN keep comments in a string... how do you think the forums do it? Ever hear of the HTML command <br \>? The standard is \n for a linebreak, and it is very possible to code a GUI which will display this all. Perhaps rather fill in the stuff automatically and what-not. Not very complicated, just would require a bit of work. "needless work for scripters", how can it necessarily be needless if we're looking at setting a mandate for it and this would allow it to be possible? Or at least some servers would get use out of it. I don't know about all the other coders, but to me, if it gets used in a legitamite way, no script is "needless work".

As I said, it is a needless mandate and it is also pushy. I've not experienced any problems as a direct result of GPs, FAQs or ETs having RC. I don't know why we need this.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

Except this will still cut down on the problem. Most FAQs/ETs/GPs etc are not necessarily friends, but they get hired honestly to my knowledge. So it might not fix 100% of the problem, but it will sure do a sufficient job.

It won't cut the problem at all.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

I know you haven't realized this yet, but somehow arguing with another global over something they put time in to help the community, doesn't make you look good, nor do it do much good for the image of the global community. So yes, at times you should learn to "sit on your hands", please.

I know you haven't realized this yet, but maybe the players don't want someone who is not even a part of an appropriate department to unilaterally declare RCs for their staff rosters illegal. Here's a notion: forcing your ideas on people just because you have them doesn't make you right.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

Since when has our jobs been about "pleasing the playerworlds" vs. making the game better and such? Our jobs are not to make the playerworlds happy, but if that is possible we should. The whole point is to weed out non-essential staff on RC, which is made for essential-staff. It was not really a big deal with the staff= other than it being huge when it wasn't needed x.x

These people PAY Graal's expenses.
People will not PAY for playerworlds if they do not have a certain amount of freedoms to develop their server to their choosing.

Besides that, happy people make more productive workers... look into it. Some of the things the PWA has done have made managers unhappy, but these things were done so that further unhappiness would be prevented. Limiting high-power RCs probably saved alot of grief for alot of people. This, however, would do nothing of the sort. All it does is needlessly tell people what to do. There is no security benefit. There's no convenience benefit, especially if the server is against using it.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

Actually you'd be surprised how much warping can be abused, and if you give someone RC, most servers randomly give out unnecessary rights... which isn't very smart. I don't see it as 'impeding upon server managers' as much as realizing that the server managers are given permission, rights, and power via GraalOnline, so if GraalOnline decides to limit non-essential things, I fail to see how this is a problem?

Who're you to decide what is non-essential?

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

The point is, that Graal does not answer to server managers, it's the other way around. Graal decides what rules apply in general, and as certain servers with GPs/ETs/FAQs etc are felt not to be needed on RC, then the policy changes.

I don't disagree, but I also think that adding policy which can cause major protest over something so minor as "making it easier to read" is unwise.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

And this isn't even the discussion. The whole point was that this is a gift. Playerworlds can choose to use it or not, stop turning everything into a personal battle and grow up please because I refuse to do this in the public eye anymore. I am not going to have the global image lowered because you can't grow up. So stop this nonesense and please, if you have a problem, say it in private to me and not make a fool of yourself and the community out in the open =/ If you dare reply with a snide or indecent comment, you have just fallen a notch in my eyes.

You just said it was in the works of becoming a mandate. And I got complaints about you telling people it was such. What do you expect me to do? Ignore my job?
This isn't a personal battle, either. It's a policy battle. You just said yourself that you effectively don't care what the managers think (or the countless GPs/ETs/FAQs you'd be discouraging). Good job on keeping your "global image" up to snuff.

Originally Posted by Projectshifter

I really could care less what I am accused of, and if I did say something, you should take it up privately with me. Actually, they should take it up privately with me. And if you cared to investigate, I'm sure you'd fidn that this was on a development world, where, as the rules state, they are not to have non-developmental staff. kthanxbai
-Projectshifter

You should have brought it up to us, as it is our job to deal with such issues.
As I understand it:
GST scripts.
PWA enforces playerworld rules.

[dlang]

This NPC is not necessary as you can simply put an ET in server options and set his rights yet set his IP Range to 0.0.0.0 to prevent access to RC.

[Xecutor]

You can do that but without the proper IP range he won't be able to use any of his rights.

[dlang]

Aye, so it is, I stand corrected.

[protagonist]

I thought of that as well, but I guess the point is to clean up serveroptions.

[Xecutor]

I don't think it should be mandatory for anyone, this warpto system for "non-essentials". For me, having staff with RC allows to me take care and manage them more appropriately.

[Deek2]

Eh, it'll work either way. It just depends on your preferences. If you want to just set warpto rights in their accounts, then that's fine. It's also fine if you just want to give them a warpto NPC. Many servers chose either one. Neither is inherently better than the other.

[Xecutor]

Originally Posted by Deek2

Eh, it'll work either way. It just depends on your preferences. If you want to just set warpto rights in their accounts, then that's fine. It's also fine if you just want to give them a warpto NPC. Many servers chose either one. Neither is inherently better than the other.

Ah you speak the truth, and neither should be forced upon a give playerworld. Let us choose and it should be left at that. Righto?

[Deek2]

Originally Posted by Xecutor

Ah you speak the truth, and neither should be forced upon a give playerworld. Let us choose and it should be left at that. Righto?

Well, there's many outlying factors that alter the up's and down's of using either, which is when logic comes in to determine which one you should use. I'm just merely stating neither is actually better than the other inherently, since they both fufill the same specific purpose equally.
God, now I sound silly.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Let's see.
There are no feelings of inferiority. I wouldn't want my staff feeling left out because of them lacking an RC.

because oh god, that would be the worst thing in the world

As I said before, scripting is inefficient for comments. How are you supposed to follow the commonly used (and easily readible)
Date:
Time:
Reason:
format if your comments are in a string? It just seems to create needless work for scripters to make such a system, there are better things to do.

wow it's almost as if you're saying it's hard to script a small weapon/GUI/dbnpc

[Reflux]

Originally Posted by protagonist

I thought of that as well, but I guess the point is to clean up serveroptions.

Argh no.... how dare we have a long list in server options?? What is the problem with that,

staff=,(GP),Admin,Asst,SnrCaptain,Captain,Captain, GP,Gp,GP,(FAQ),Admin,Asst,SnrCaptain,SnrCaptain,FA Q,FAQ,FAQ,(GC),Admin,Asst,GC,GC,GC,(LAT),Admin,Ass t,LAT,LAT,LAT,LAT,(Manager),Manager,(Misc),Unixmad ,Tyhm,Stefan,

Because that looks oh so outrageously bad, and REALLY clutters up the server options doesn't it?

[URBANLEGEND]

Between Selflon,PS,and VT, we can debate all week!

Anyway, Nice job PS

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Lance

because oh god, that would be the worst thing in the world

Shows what you know about maintaining a server.
Doesn't really surprise me that you feel that way, your staff are hardly happy.

Originally Posted by Lance

wow it's almost as if you're saying it's hard to script a small weapon/GUI/dbnpc

I'm saying it's pointless. A whole lot of work for about two dozen letterspaces.