Selling Items for USD

[Dehitay]

I'm getting tired of people selling items for USD
I can understand the greed and lust for money
Practially everybody knows it's against the rules to use the Graal Client to sell items for USD
but that sure as hell isn't stopping it
Is there any staff that are willing to lend an ear for me to rat out people who keep massing that they're selling items for USD?
It would be awesome if they would actually get punished

[Thallen]

Graal is the newest business, Dehitay! I sold the "Jesus Christ" account for $30.

[Dehitay]

Legal only if you do it outside the Graal client
Dehitay is jealous of rich people and wants to rat them out
Hopefully there's some staff that will listen to a pigeon

[TheHolyKiller]

I hate people buying stuff for money. I think Graal already is expensive enough. But those people that showoff with Items they bought really suck. I just saw a level3 that had RoW, Inferno, RoS, Mith of Berwean +10 and he didn't even know what's sparring *caughs*. People that buy stuff like "spark89" for global IP ban.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Anyone who spends money on a game like graal, other than the cost of access to the game, is a complete ***** in my opinion, whether they have been/are my friends.

Nothing more needs to be said.

[Brad]

hahahaha oh god cry me a river

you're jealous that you aren't making big bucks

suck it up

[Limelight Panda]

Originally Posted by Brad

hahahaha oh god cry me a river

you're jealous that you aren't making big bucks

suck it up

word.
You go girl!

[Dehitay]

Originally Posted by Brad

hahahaha oh god cry me a river

you're jealous that you aren't making big bucks

suck it up

I already established that I'm jealous (read above)
but "making big bucks"?
I'm curious what you consider spare cash

[Muha_builder]

2000 $ or so i heard anyway i really dont care anymore it would have helped if people started caring like 2 months ago now its pretty much to late

[Ziro_Vitrudestec]

Originally Posted by TheHolyKiller

I think Graal already is expensive enough.

Graal is not expensive, it's very cheap...

What you pay for is what you get.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally Posted by Muha_builder

2000 $ or so i heard anyway i really dont care anymore it would have helped if people started caring like 2 months ago now its pretty much to late

Yeah, its easy to make big money off this kinda thing, knowing how utterly stupid people can be with money that they should be donating to charities if they dislike their notes that much. Probably the reason stefan doesn't want the deals done over graal, if it was something like £2 then there probably wouldnt be a chance of someone getting upset if they got scammed, and blame graal =x

[--Chris--]

The reason it's illegal is so players don't try to hold GO staff responsible when they are scammed. Not only is scamming legal on GK but:

"---
Opposite (3/8/2004 12:52:10 AM):

Mass message:
Ok, I want to put out a general warning

If you sell items for money or trade for out of game items, You
are at risk of being scammed and we will _not_ protect the
buyer or seller, We will not say its illegal to sell items or to buy
them , But you are at risk 100%, You get no protection from
GraalOnline, This is the final word and statement on this issue


Thanks

Jessica Peterson
Graal Online"

Note: Jessica Peterson = Angel

[Zero Hour]

Yeap, exactley, Chris.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

I woulda thought it easier to just make it legal rather than run the risk. I mean surely if its just flat out illegal, and you have it stated in the user agreement and such that USD stuff is illegal, then graal's like 100% auto-protected against idiots who get scammed? =x

Meh, dunno. w/e

[Brad]

I've made more than anyone I assume. Anu claims he did but I think I may have passed him recently. I've made enough for me to spend 50-100 dollars a week on food, buy an 1100 dollar computer, not have to have a real job in real life, and for me to live happily on. I am 16 years old and my friends idolize me.

[Zero Hour]

Don't forget you idolize yourself, aswell.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Don't forget you idolize yourself, aswell.

Nah, most of my ego is fake.

[busyrobot]

The problem with people spending tons of USD to play the game is that basically, the game ends up geared towards players that have put in tons of money.

For a game that is supposed to be playable for $xx a year, and then to be in a subclass of players because you can't afford the outrageous plat prices (try to buy decent armor in plat lately?) and can't spend the extra on USD to compete evenly with the other players, is in itself something of a rip off.


USD = game breaking unbearable plat inflation

Its that simple.


Bringing in out of game advantages is still bringing in out of game advantages - whether its USD or trainers.

Other than the lack of enforceablilty, I can see no reason why the mass selling of items for USD would be considered any different than the production of trainers.

And brad, I don't believe you.
I've seen your hours, you do not play the game nearly enough to aquire legitimately the number of items it would take to generate that level of revenue.

Its not possible.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

The problem with people spending tons of USD to play the game is that basically, the game ends up geared towards players that have put in tons of money.

For a game that is supposed to be playable for $xx a year, and then to be in a subclass of players because you can't afford the outrageous plat prices (try to buy decent armor in plat lately?) and can't spend the extra on USD to compete evenly with the other players, is in itself something of a rip off.


USD = game breaking unbearable plat inflation

Its that simple.


Bringing in out of game advantages is still bringing in out of game advantages - whether its USD or trainers.

Other than the lack of enforceablilty, I can see no reason why the mass selling of items for USD would be considered any different than the production of trainers.

And brad, I don't believe you.
I've seen your hours, you do not play the game nearly enough to aquire legitimately the number of items it would take to generate that level of revenue.

Its not possible.

If you'd like I could take screenshots of my paypal acct.

I have 3 accounts for graal as well. You all know me as Brad. There are 2 other alias' I go by as well.

Hm..what else to say. I've made over 2 grand. Believe me or not I don't care.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Brad

If you'd like I could take screenshots of my paypal acct.

I have 3 accounts for graal as well. You all know me as Brad. There are 2 other alias' I go by as well.

Hm..what else to say. I've made over 2 grand. Believe me or not I don't care.

I am sure you have multiple accounts but there is no way you can spend dias, plats, maps, etc to get items that make enough to make that much.

There are not enough RoWs spawned, Mith made, infernos evented off, for you to make a good return on investment based on the time it takes to aquire items.

You need to be able to do ultra high EAing or blessing to make that kind of in game wealth to sell it for anything USD on a regular basis.



Look at it this way, say you make $15/hr at a regular job. In in 6 hrs and 40 minutes, you have $100.

There is no way in 6 hrs of game play that a person can get $100 worth of items to sell.

That is why people are willing to buy stuff USD for items - its more economical time wise.

Anyway, its not something I care to bicker over. I simply don't think what you are saying can be done legitimately.

[Destorm]

no one said it was done legitimately... but im sure ill get banned if i say anymore ;-)

[LordZen]

~_~

Well I thought Markb had made upwards of 3k? That was a while back.

[Thallen]

Originally Posted by LordZen

~_~

Well I thought Markb had made upwards of 3k? That was a while back.

Are you saying $3000 was made by MarkB by selling items for USD. That is pathetic.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

I am sure you have multiple accounts but there is no way you can spend dias, plats, maps, etc to get items that make enough to make that much.

There are not enough RoWs spawned, Mith made, infernos evented off, for you to make a good return on investment based on the time it takes to aquire items.

You need to be able to do ultra high EAing or blessing to make that kind of in game wealth to sell it for anything USD on a regular basis.



Look at it this way, say you make $15/hr at a regular job. In in 6 hrs and 40 minutes, you have $100.

There is no way in 6 hrs of game play that a person can get $100 worth of items to sell.

That is why people are willing to buy stuff USD for items - its more economical time wise.

Anyway, its not something I care to bicker over. I simply don't think what you are saying can be done legitimately.

Tell me what I have to gain by bragging about how much I made?

You think I'm ****ing with you but I am really not. Monkey Sandals of Gust can sell for over 100 dollars, ac/wc gloves can sell for over 100 dollars, some armor can go for around 80, bruts I can sell for a dollar a piece, eas/iwds/ews can sell easy for 2-3 dollars each.

You think I am a bull**** artist when I am saying only the truth

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Brad

Tell me what I have to gain by bragging about how much I made?

You think I'm ****ing with you but I am really not. Monkey Sandals of Gust can sell for over 100 dollars, ac/wc gloves can sell for over 100 dollars, some armor can go for around 80, bruts I can sell for a dollar a piece, eas/iwds/ews can sell easy for 2-3 dollars each.

You think I am a bull**** artist when I am saying only the truth

Brad, there are only 3 pairs of monkey sandals in existance - I was on debug when Stefan did a system wide search on them, well there was four, one extra one that had no explaination as to why it existed I think, but they are still not an item you can produce yet so that still only leaves four.

Even if you got 4 pairs, you can make $400 gross. Note, that is not net. You want to buy a pair with diamonds and brutals? Well, brutals as you say, cost $1 each, so that is going to cut into your profits. If you clear the HH for them, like most people, you get a brutal once every 20 minutes if you are lucky, so you can make a nice hefty $3/hr at that rate.


Any players ever get these sandals in game? I mean, without USD. How long does it take to save the plat/diamonds/brutals to trade for gusts?

Anyone?

Even strong players take a long time to get these sorts of items, a lot of effort.


The majority of people who sell items are people who have played a long time and are quitting, and really don't need them. They have played a year or two, and maybe make $300 or so if their items are good.

Whether more or less, chances are, the hrs of gameplay vs money made does not equate minimum wage unless they invested USD in similar amounts to what they finally make later, like a very small return on an investment.


Has anyone other than brad actually made real money (ie, real amounts of money based on real amounts of time that make it worth while) on graal?

Brad, how long does it take you to get Sandals?

[Brad]

Jealousssyyyyyyyy. I could care less how much anyone else has made I am just telling you. This is pointless arguing I don't care if you like my business, I don't care if you believe what I'm saying. I am making a nice bit of cash and am lovin it.

[Slash-P2P]

What I dont get is how can someone pay real money for something that doesnt exist? You cant touch it, feel it, so on so on. Get a life before you buy for USD. Maybe I could understand something like a War Hammer for $1 since $1 isnt a super huge amount. But come on people, your paying REAL money to get a 32x32 pixel icon in your inventory and to do some sort of effect. Then when you quit Graal or get banned or something. Your screwed!

Dont buy stuff for USD. Why dont you buy something that exists and you know you wont get scammed for?

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally Posted by Slash-P2P

Dont buy stuff for USD. Why dont you buy something that exists and you know you wont get scammed for?

Because they suck, and because most of them probably got shunned by their society.

[Splke]

First off, Dehitay, your a *****, thanks.

I don't care what anybody says, kids who buy for usd are simply looking to avoid the 500 hours to get a RoW, if they have the money to buy it, and do so in a manner that does not involve the RoW being the sole item purchased, then fine.

Brad has made well over 2,000 $.
I myself have made in the mid 900's.
anU has made a nice living off of Graal.

And, if you didn't notice, Brad sells, and magically get's 'restored'. Brad is a very smart USD seller.

Note: Brad did quit his job, because he has such a nice, income, being Graal.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Brad

Jealousssyyyyyyyy.

lmao.
Yeah, just as jealous as I am of people that scam. - oh if only I was so leet.

Originally Posted by Splke

I don't care what anybody says, kids who buy for usd are simply looking to avoid the 500 hours to get a RoW, if they have the money to buy it, and do so in a manner that does not involve the RoW being the sole item purchased, then fine.

I agree with that in theory, but at the same time, if someone doesn't want to take 500 hrs to lvl up, why not speed hack?

What's the difference between those two types of short cuts?

Well, one main difference of course, is that USD items kill the plat economy with insane inflation, and make the game unplayable to most everyone other than the USD spenders.

Originally Posted by Splke

And, if you didn't notice, Brad sells, and magically get's 'restored'. Brad is a very smart USD seller.

If that is the case, it would explain why he doesn't seem to have the problem of working 500 hrs to get a RoW to sell for USD.

If that was true though, then GK should really just have /dm open to everyone like it is on the debug server, and we may as well as turn on warpto for everyone, maybe add a water theme park with waterslides and such too.

Of course then, ;_; brad would have to get a real job.

[Moonite]

Buying With USD is just are easier way for getting good items

[Dehitay]

Originally Posted by Splke

First off, Dehitay, your a *****, thanks.

I don't care what anybody says, kids who buy for usd are simply looking to avoid the 500 hours to get a RoW, if they have the money to buy it, and do so in a manner that does not involve the RoW being the sole item purchased, then fine.

Brad has made well over 2,000 $.
I myself have made in the mid 900's.
anU has made a nice living off of Graal.

And, if you didn't notice, Brad sells, and magically get's 'restored'. Brad is a very smart USD seller.

Note: Brad did quit his job, because he has such a nice, income, being Graal.

Call me a ***** if you like
but $2,000 isn't enough to quit a job for
I have made $4000 in a single week for stuffing thousands of envelopes for an advertising business
If you call $3,000 a nice living, I live like a freaking god
here's $2, clean my gutters, ye bumb with no idea of the value of money

[Splke]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

lmao.
Yeah, just as jealous as I am of people that scam. - oh if only I was so leet.

Yeah, if only.

I agree with that in theory, but at the same time, if someone doesn't want to take 500 hrs to lvl up, why not speed hack?

One, is illegal, one, if done properly, is legal.

What's the difference between those two types of short cuts?

^ above ^

Well, one main difference of course, is that USD items kill the plat economy with insane inflation, and make the game unplayable to most everyone other than the USD spenders.

USD did not kill plat, nor did it inflate the prices. Corruption killed plat, and inflated prices. +10 (I am not directly inferring you, or the Sagesuns, just those who accepted stacked maps) killed plat, and inflated prices.

If that is the case, it would explain why he doesn't seem to have the problem of working 500 hrs to get a RoW to sell for USD.

It is the case.
I bought from him -> I got scammed -> He and the scammer were selling the gear.

If that was true though, then GK should really just have /dm open to everyone like it is on the debug server, and we may as well as turn on warpto for everyone, maybe add a water theme park with waterslides and such too.

Now, your just being silly.

Of course then, ;_; brad would have to get a real job.

I don't know, he's 16. Shouldn't his parents be supporting him? In reality, he does not have to get a job, he just wants the extra cash, so, since he didn't want to work, he just used Graal for the extra income. Quite brilliant. ;(

Originally Posted by Dehitay

Call me a ***** if you like
but $2,000 isn't enough to quit a job for
I have made $4000 in a single week for stuffing thousands of envelopes for an advertising business
If you call $3,000 a nice living, I live like a freaking god
here's $2, clean my gutters, ye bumb with no idea of the value of money

He's 16, he gets about 500 $ a month working minimum wage half-time at KFC. Do the math.
Good for you, I'm sure it was plenty of fun.
I didn't, I said it's a nice income, keeping in mind he is manipulating people, and playing a game.
No, here's 2$, clean out your ears and put on some glasses, you ***** with no idea of how to read.

hope you can read your own style of writing

Moony, shh. K?

[Dehitay]

[QUOTE=Splke]
anU has made a nice living off of Graal.
[QUOTE]
You pretty clearly said "nice living"
and we've established MarkB has made around $3000
course he's been playing a good amount of time

and I'm pretty sure he's even older than 16
of course, those aren't his words, they're yours
you're the one who said it was a nice living
and you're the one I'm mocking for lack of ability to value money correctly

[Splke]

It's /quote.

I was talking about Brad, you didn't make clear that you were talking about Mark.

Mark is hardly 17, if that. HE has made a nice living off of Graal, keeping in mind he is still a child and does not pay for his house, bills, or anything else. And I said over 3000 if I do remember correctly. That is quite abit for just playing a game. Your ignorant.

[Brad]

I turn 17 on June 29th. I WORKED at KFC for about 3 months until I realized graal was more profitable since they gave me **** hours. My parents pay for housing, food, etc. I pay for fastfood, gas, and insurance + FUN.

[CaTigus]

Originally Posted by --Chris--

The reason it's illegal is so players don't try to hold GO staff responsible when they are scammed. Not only is scamming legal on GK but:

"---
Opposite (3/8/2004 12:52:10 AM):

Mass message:
Ok, I want to put out a general warning

If you sell items for money or trade for out of game items, You
are at risk of being scammed and we will _not_ protect the
buyer or seller, We will not say its illegal to sell items or to buy
them , But you are at risk 100%, You get no protection from
GraalOnline, This is the final word and statement on this issue


Thanks

Jessica Peterson
Graal Online"

Note: Jessica Peterson = Angel

Do We ever get protection?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by CaTigus

Do We ever get protection?

Don't deal with scumbags. Simple as that.

[Splke]

Originally Posted by Brad

Don't deal with scumbags. Simple as that.

He meant in general. Scamming itself is legal and they can't do anything to help. That's what he meant.

[LordZen]

Well that 3k figure was quite a while back when I became aware of it.