Lets Destroy Levels!

[Zurkiba]

Levels for 2k2 ruined the game... so did differnt weapons. So protest and get rid of both. It'll make the game 101203820942396493269743265438x better

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Well, i'm not going to vote on this one because there shoulda been a third and fourth option

The third option should have said:
"Create a clone of GK and force anybody who doesn't want to RP for 60% of the time play there and stop ruining RP, or just kick the non-RPers out full stop!"

And the fourth option should have said:
"Don't get rid of levels completely, just alter them to make it so that after a certain amount of levels, you stop gaining extra stats!...or something along these lines!"

I woulda voted for either or both of these..

[TripleE]

Originally posted by Zurkiba
Levels for 2k2 ruined the game... so did differnt weapons. So protest and get rid of both. It'll make the game 101203820942396493269743265438x better

which ones are you talking about?

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
Well, i'm not going to vote on this one because there shoulda been a third and fourth option

The third option should have said:
"Create a clone of GK and force anybody who doesn't want to RP for 60% of the time play there and stop ruining RP, or just kick the non-RPers out full stop!"

And the fourth option should have said:
"Don't get rid of levels completely, just alter them to make it so that after a certain amount of levels, you stop gaining extra stats!...or something along these lines!"

I woulda voted for either or both of these..

Then noone would play the RP version.

Levels have destroyed RPing... it's that simple.

[Loriel]

Stupid poll. Very.

[raymond]

Originally posted by Loriel
Stupid poll. Very.

Agreed.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Loriel
Stupid poll. Very.

I have yet to see an actual real purposeful and useful poll on these forums...there probably is one, no doubt, hidden away in the archives, but so what if this poll is "stupid" as you call it. over 80% of the players on graal are stupid, but we don't post stuff about them every 5 minutes....mostly because it's against the rules and stuff, but thats beside the point X_X

[Amagius]

It's true. If levels didn't decide it so much, and there wasn't so much to it, then we could get role-playing done.

[--Chris--]

Levels for life - you stink.
Levels aren't really the problem it's equipment, think of the bonuses from levels then think of the bonuses on equipment ;p Wow 2hp and 1 more wc or damage...oh neat, 1 more gp or sp *rox* Lv50s can beat lv100s ;p same ac, more wc but it won't make a difference once you can hit them and hey - they spent alot of time for the extra 2x<level> hp ;p

[Splke]

OK, lemme put it as simply as I can...

After about, lvl 18 (base wise) your HP goes up 2 hp per level, which doesnt grant a big advantage if your a lvl 30 vs. a lvl 50... Thats a whole 40 hp, 2 swings with a regular weapon...

Now, this scenario. Both persons at lvl 30. Person A. Has bomyhelm,luckyboots, glok blet, dual rof, and a flaming sword all +5 (gov sword or w/e) vs. person with +10 fhom, <insert event shield here>, prepped <insert weapon thats uber> dual row and a red dragon amulet... It's obvious that equipment is the problem.. z.z

[Satrek2000]

The problem is neither levels, nor the equipment as such. Look at classic, everyone's equal there, same strength, speed etc, and still people spend hours with pking others. If you have players who prefer pking over rping, they will pk. If you remove levels, they will either continue to pk as best as they can, or leave the game. It doesn't change number of rpers - it might piss them off though, as some of them, too, level to get stronger, for for their own fun, not to pk. Sure, you can enter a treasure map for fun. But it's nice to see something you did it for, isn't it?

[Khallos_2k2]

I agree with SpIke, its the equipment that is the problem. There are waaay to many event items out at the moment. I know most players with an event item will disagree with this, but there is. If there were just a few, say 1 of each type of items and maybe 2-3 ID/FID, they would be much more highly valued. Also, random alchemy caused problems with items...
I don't really like prepping weapons that much either, as it makes it far too easy to kill monsters and most of them are no longer a challenge for players, sort of wrong in a meant-to-be-RPG. There should always be monsters that players cant take on on their own.
Also, the economy has crashed and plat is hardly worth anything now.
I hate to admit it, but, a server restart would be the best thing
I know plenty of people who would come back if there was a restart...
Perhaps we could sort of copy the server and then reset it, so on one server youre whatever level you are with all your leet items etc, and on the other youve just started. I think this is what they are planning to do eventually.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Khallos_2k2
I agree with SpIke, its the equipment that is the problem. There are waaay to many event items out at the moment. I know most players with an event item will disagree with this, but there is. If there were just a few, say 1 of each type of items and maybe 2-3 ID/FID, they would be much more highly valued. Also, random alchemy caused problems with items...
I don't really like prepping weapons that much either, as it makes it far too easy to kill monsters and most of them are no longer a challenge for players, sort of wrong in a meant-to-be-RPG. There should always be monsters that players cant take on on their own.
Also, the economy has crashed and plat is hardly worth anything now.
I hate to admit it, but, a server restart would be the best thing
I know plenty of people who would come back if there was a restart...
Perhaps we could sort of copy the server and then reset it, so on one server youre whatever level you are with all your leet items etc, and on the other youve just started. I think this is what they are planning to do eventually.

1. Just one or two of each item, while it would limit the -number- of PKers, there would still be PKers out there with all the items, and it would be 500 times harder to get a single one of those items for yourself (the amount those *****s think the things are worth right now is just stupid. "OMDFGFG THERS ONLY TOO OFF TEHM! SO TEHY R WORHF 100 DIAMUNDZ" "No, dude...a <insert average item that the average player can access> is better than that item..." "BUT TEHR R ONLY TOO OFF TEHN! GIEV DIAMUNZ PLZ!" see what i mean?). The main problem with amounts is not how many there are, but how many each person has, IMHO.

Think about it this way: What is more balanced, one player with like every event/alch item there is running around bashing everyone's faces through, or quite a lot of players with say one or two alch/event items each?
My suggestion, although a little shakey, is a lot fairer than the current system: Make some spoony script or something that makes it impossible for a player to have more than say one event item, one event weapon, and two alchemy items. Make it so that they can't get round it by storing the items in their houses then going back for more and stuff.

I'm not asking that this should be implemented, because it most likely wont, i just personally think it's a rather fair idea..

2.Yeah, i hear what you're saying about the monsters that shouldn't be able to be "pwned" in 5 seconds by one powerplayer. I think there should be some like really big scary monsters, bigger than lords (Maybe a giant horse, or a giant Stefan , that are -impossible- to beat alone. But here's the thing....their difficulty decreases with the number of partied people onscreen. So, say you were in a party of two, and both people were on screen, then the monster would be marginally easier. If you were in a party of 5 (and they were all onscreen; if a single member of the party is offscreen, the difficulty boosts right up to impossible again) then the monster would become much much easier, providing you all chipped in. This'd probably be like....super duper hard to implement, so ignore i said it

3. A clone server isnt that bad in theory...i was babbling on about it a day or two ago in fact. However, it's my opinion that, even though there would be a fresh new server to go and Roleplay on, there would be hardly anyone on it to roleplay with. The hardcore roleplayers such as myself (i like to think this, at any rate o_O) would go there, yeah, but most people who just like to roleplay now and again would never leave...simply because they're too lazy to start fresh just for the opportunity of a damned good, clean, idiot and PKer free server...BLARG! Also, what might happen is some powerplayers may think "Hey, new server...if i pretend that i want to roleplay, i can go over there, win all the events by kissing the ass of the EMs, and then become a powerlpayer there with ALL the items! bwauhauhaaaa!"

Sorry for the long-winded nonsense. I'd be surprised if anyone reads this all the way through xD

[Muha_builder]

Dont touch my phoenix gear :grrr: they are not even a gear anymore its who i am.
stats on it are not even that great they are cool but not great i dont care for the stats.I care more for the looks and about the high levels i do realize that this is gonna be a problem i mean level 10 vs level 90 in a war? They should change the magic system i mean warriors "own" spell casters as it is right now thats not very cool
they should consider something as no damage when someone is casting a spell or something like that you know.

[Muha_builder]

mmm

[Satrek2000]

It's not about items - at least not that easy. It's not even the way some items are set as far as stats are concerned. Mithril is a good armour, and rare, yes. But what if you could craft one, using numberous gems, diamonds and so on? Prices would drop, everyone could have one in theory, and things will be a little more balanced. Will that change how people rp? Not at all.
I think making stronger items craftable at reasonable costs would balance things, as well as more event items - why not have more dragon ammys at reduced stats? With proper events and fitting stats, everything will be all right and smoothe out.
I'm still against a server restart. What good would it be? You can patch the system as it is, and you'll need to do so anyway. As it is now, playing is fun, at least for the Horn family, as we do not focus on pking. We live, yes, we level, too, but we also farm, craft, don't pk, and, most important, we do rp. All without event items.

I'm sorry, but leveling as well as equipment used does not affect the way you rp, no does it prevent you or encourage you. As they say, it's all in your mind.

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by Khallos_2k2
There are waaay to many event items out at the moment.

Actually, there are not. It's just that some players have 5 of them, and others none.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Satrek2000


I'm sorry, but leveling as well as equipment used does not affect the way you rp, no does it prevent you or encourage you. As they say, it's all in your mind.

This might be true today, but all these stupid items are still what -caused- the deterioration of RP. IMHO, they distracted people from what the server is really capable of and what was in it's blueprints. They encouraged people to go out and spend all day killing things than having fun and using the server to it's potential.

I played the christmas preview, all those years ago (the christmas before last, i think...), and then for a lil' while after the thing was released. I left 'cause of stat down and food depletion, but when i left, everyone had just come from 2k1 and the roleplaying spirit was still -stroooooong-. We all couldn't wait for the kingdom islands to come out so we could roleplay and have fun in our new castles. I left. When i came back, what was new? More monsters, more items, more weapons, more armours, and more ways of killing people. Oh, and RP was non-existant.

HMMMMMM

[GoZelda]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
More monsters, more items, more weapons, more armours, and more ways of killing people.

More players. And that's what 'they' want.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by GoZelda

More players. And that's what 'they' want.

POOFARTS TO WHAT THEY WANT. ITS ABOUT WHAT I WANT.

And the point i was trying to make was that when the server started out, i would find it hard to believe (and very very saddening if it's true) that "the people" wanted more monsters and "pwning" tools than kickass stuff like forts and castles and Roleplay stuff. Before i left, that's all i wanted, and many others around me, mostly all kingdom members (back then, kingdom memmbers made up a damned large amount of the population =X)

[LaymanIX]

Well, I like RPGs, and therefore, I like levels, but a server reset sounds nice...

Oh, and yay for roleplaying. You be the distressed princess, ill the knight who rescues you and gets in the backseat with you.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by LaymanIX
Well, I like RPGs, and therefore, I like levels, but a server reset sounds nice...

Oh, and yay for roleplaying. You be the distressed princess, ill the knight who rescues you and gets in the backseat with you.

I like your style...but i'm only playing the princess if i get to wear one of those pointy hats with the strip of silk or whatever that dangles from the top...o_o

[LaymanIX]

Only if you provide pictures.

[Zurkiba]

That 2 hp is still 2 hp...

Ranks are based on level, not RP skill.
RP Training isn't given to people with high levels
War is not equal.

It's that simple... RPing worked on 2k1 because everyone was the same.

[LaymanIX]

I dont know what you mean by war is not equal, but thats what kingdoms needs, WARS!

Think about it, you could give castles hp, so when an enemy hits it, it loses hp. And people could defend it.

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Zurkiba
It's that simple... RPing worked on 2k1 because everyone was the same.

This may be true, but that doesn't mean that rping can't work when you're all different. En contraire, it'd add more diversity.
As for ranks by level, that's a problem with the kingdom leaders - while I don't see the problem to any grave extend. If you don't have levels, ranks will be given to friends and relatives or whatever.

I agree that we could use a good war-system. Forts have been promised to us a while back, and in theory they'd add to rping.

[thelostviking]

My idea is:
let ea ew and such stuff cost 10k per piece and remove all enchants.
+ make a money reset.
i think than everyone will have the same chances again.
eventitems arent that much they have like 1 more dam and people cry out loud about that. x.x

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Originally posted by Zurkiba

It's that simple... RPing worked on 2k1 because everyone was the same.

True. Very true. Although when it came to wars, it was just PKing...and noone obeyed the rules, everyone just went back to the fight after dying =/

Originally posted by LaymanIX

Think about it, you could give castles hp, so when an enemy hits it, it loses hp. And people could defend it.

Um, we already have these, they're called stone fortifications and such. And we've already been given the means to SCREW IT UP LIKE JUST ABOUT EVERY OTHER ASPECT OF THE SERVER. These means are of course earth to dust.

Originally posted by Satrek2000


As for ranks by level, that's a problem with the kingdom leaders - while I don't see the problem to any grave extend. If you don't have levels, ranks will be given to friends and relatives or whatever.

Nah. Who's saying this wont/doesnt/hasnt happened already on GK? Although, I certainly wouldn't promote someone unless i thought they'd be good for the job, and if i dont like them i don't like them for a reason. That reason would almost definitely be a sufficient one as to why they don't get promotions.

I can't remember a time when people got high ranks because they were buddies with the leaders way back on 2k1, and there were no such things as levels there. Just 110% more roleplaying than exists on GK o_o

[LaymanIX]

<i>they're called stone fortifications and such.</i>

But, uh, stone fortifications arent castles. I think.

[deman1171]

Heck Yeah!

[thelostviking]

There cant be a real war between the kingdoms if the castle isnt fully destroyable. Or the Walls should be killed and the kings have to make fortifications aka stronghold and the people would to need to give stones or money to help building it.

[Admins]

Levels should be limited to 30 i guess

[TripleE]

Originally posted by Stefan
Levels should be limited to 30 i guess

Well Yes, in some cases. I really dont see why there should be a limit on levels, if some people think they are fine, but if the levels are just be wasted then yes, 30 is good limit.

Check this thread Stefan....
http://forums.graal2001.com/forums/s...5&pagenumber=1

[Amagius]

I know Tec will cry, but it sounds good. Not to punish the one's who worked hard for it. It's just that we could keep moving in equip, but there's a limit to how strong humans can be.

[deman1171]

Originally posted by Stefan
Levels should be limited to 30 i guess

Hm, or maybe a different level system, where it's not so-much level you want to increase, but skills.. so you can train in all kinds of different skills, such as you have skills like cooking, farming, mining, tailoring.. and something about really strong equipment to, or atleast make more entertaining items besides weapons & armour, because all you see on graal kingdoms is people trying to get better armour and weapons, and well with that taking away level and leaving that will just make it more boring.

[greeno]

or have it so that when you pick your class you have to stick with it, IE: get rid of skill scrolls, make a warrior use swords, make barbarians use double handed weapons, make mages use magic, but let the wand be a weapon when nothing is being cast. Theives use knives and bows, alchemists use magnifying glasses (make different kinds?) and preists use books (yes, make a book weapon) this way a barbarian can't learn to use magic or pray, and he could only be the one to use woodlore. I figure if this gets put in then you'd need to make event weapons in every form, like instead of just having a Diamond Force, youo could have the Diamond force set, which includes the Diamond Force sword, diamond force dagger diamond force bow, DFBook,DFMag,DF Rod,DFAxe. and when someone won the event they picked the weapon for their class... seems fair right?

[deman1171]

Originally posted by greeno
or have it so that when you pick your class you have to stick with it, IE: get rid of skill scrolls, make a warrior use swords, make barbarians use double handed weapons, make mages use magic, but let the wand be a weapon when nothing is being cast. Theives use knives and bows, alchemists use magnifying glasses (make different kinds?) and preists use books (yes, make a book weapon) this way a barbarian can't learn to use magic or pray, and he could only be the one to use woodlore. I figure if this gets put in then you'd need to make event weapons in every form, like instead of just having a Diamond Force, youo could have the Diamond force set, which includes the Diamond Force sword, diamond force dagger diamond force bow, DFBook,DFMag,DF Rod,DFAxe. and when someone won the event they picked the weapon for their class... seems fair right?

Oh yeah, i was going to say that too.
Almost everyone can use magic, piety, and melee and such.
Classes don't even make a difference now

[Satrek2000]

I don't think a level cap will help. Change the bonus you get per level, say, make it one hp/sp/grace per level from lv30 on, or less, only one every few levels. Sure, GK is about roleplaying, but killing monsters and such can also be fun, same with farming, baking and crafting, and personally, I like to get exp for it just to see what I have done. That, in my opinion, doesn't hurt, and would rather spoil people's fun than increase it.

[thelostviking]

I also think that gold keys should be harder to get or everyone can just use 2 potions. Or soon you can forget classes!
Same with skills and stuff.

[busyrobot]

Originally posted by Stefan
Levels should be limited to 30 i guess

I think it is a matter of balance though, like, every 10 lvls, you can add -1 ac from each type of armor:

gloves, shield, hat, boots, bracers etc, body armor to a lesser degree.

To that, add weapon + blessings, where one + is not so powerful but still lowers wc.



Then, these can be sold to other players for lots of plat, which equals large event item inventory via spending power.

And, brutals are basically buying xp, if you are weak, you may only get 100k, if you are strong enough, 200k for clearing it.


Stats can be bought via gold keys.

Now, the people who get this strong do deserve what they gain for it, they have put a lot of time in to it, and shouldn't be vilified or penalized for it. Everyone is trying to get strong, but few do, and those that do it would appear, really really work for it.

The curve though of getting stronger should look like an S formula wise,

you start of weak, slowly get stronger, then get relatively much stronger faster, then, curves out to lower rate of return, not just in xp, but in overall power gains with all factors in play.


The fact of the matter is simple:

* In any game, you have to be abe to advance.

* When you advance, you become more capable than other players.

* If you are a jerk, you'll use the advantage to make other player's game a living hell.


We can assess if the way advancement works is balanced, etc, but just because some people complain, doesn't mean they have a solution. If anything is done, I sure hope it is not a reactionary-without-thinking-too much-on-it level cap or such, it needs to be a process worked out for a month or so to fine tune exactly how balance will be made better and far more stable.