Nemesis+Stefan or Chrisz! - Page 2

Kaimetsu · #41 06-14-2003, 04:09 AM

Hmm. There are two main reasons for banning a person.

Firstly, to act as a deterrent. It sends a message, both to the other players (they see it and realise that they shouldn't break the rules lest they suffer the same fate) and to the bannee himself if the ban is temporary.

The second is to remove the person from the game. They have shown their personality to be disruptive and bad for the community, so they are excluded from playing.

Now, the first requires that a rule be broken, otherwise the reason is inapplicable. The second, however, requires nothing more than knowledge of the player's personality. You can gain that knowledge in a chat room or a private conversation just as much as you can gain it on a Graal server. If you know that a person is a troublemaker then it's not unreasonable to take a proactive approach to dealing with him.

The mistake some people are making is that they're thinking of banning as a punishment. It's not. We're not meting out cosmic justice here, we're simply trying to do what is best for the game. If punishing somebody doesn't help the game then there is no justified reason for doing so. If banning somebody does help the game then there is a justified reason. Of course, this all relies very heavily on personal judgement, which is why the system often fails in reality. People let personal vendettas get in the way of their judgement, or knowingly administer an unwarranted ban. Such people are poor admins and should be replaced, but the same does not apply to everybody who takes action based on knowledge of character. Even Unixmad has banned people ingame based on actions taken outside of Graal, and although I don't have access to the full details, I imagine that the large majority were perfectly reasonable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not supporting the ban described in this thread. I don't know enough to say whether or not it was a reasonable action. All I am saying is that nobody should assume it was an act of corruption just because the events that provoked it did not take place on a Graal server.

Kinatt · #42 06-14-2003, 06:04 AM

This is the stupidest peice of garbage ive ever read in my life.. I say the person who created this thread needs to have his brain examined for inactivity.

MedievalSmurf · #43 06-14-2003, 01:05 PM

You goys got to really understand that you can ban or mess around with some ones account just becouse they are in you privet chat room. ( you goys really do let and sort power get to your heads and then abuse it ).
The only grounds that I can see some ones account been band or remover from graal is if there are stilling account or creating trainers and then I believe that should be reported to the graal online staff.

What cant believe is that you goys are now trying to the justify blame ! Lol:-)
:grrr:

Kaimetsu · #44 06-14-2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MedievalSmurf
You goys got to really understand that you can ban or mess around with some ones account just becouse they are in you privet chat room.

I assume you mean 'can't'. Anyway: Yes they can. If the player's actions in that chat room show him to be an unsuitable person for the world then it is entirely reasonable to administer a ban.

Now, whether or not that is the case here is unknown. It's possible that he was banned just because he annoyed the admins and not because he was showing himself to be a bad player. The point is this: Banning somebody for actions in a chat room is not inherently corrupt.

Quote:

What cant believe is that you goys are now trying to the justify blame !

What I can't believe is that you think you can prove your opinion correct simply by stating it again and again.

Lyndzey · #45 06-14-2003, 08:15 PM

If I were to enter an IRC chat room where certain people were talking about doing massive hacks on Graal (no, not trainers, real hacking), would I be able to ban them?

If people posted illegal Graal things on a website, would I be able to ban them?

Sure, this situation does not involve hacking Graal, but according to all of you, I can't ban someone for something that happened outside of Graal.

Spark910 · #46 06-14-2003, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyndzey
If I were to enter an IRC chat room where certain people were talking about doing massive hacks on Graal (no, not trainers, real hacking), would I be able to ban them?

If people posted illegal Graal things on a website, would I be able to ban them?

Sure, this situation does not involve hacking Graal, but according to all of you, I can't ban someone for something that happened outside of Graal.

Well no, I suggested you could.
This is a clearer example of reason for banning outside of graal events. Just what happened with this example of this person just for entering one, that shouldn't be a bannable offence.

Lyndzey · #47 06-14-2003, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spark910

Well no, I suggested you could.
This is a clearer example of reason for banning outside of graal events. Just what happened with this example of this person just for entering one, that shouldn't be a bannable offence.

They didn't just enter. Apparently (I'm not sure of this), the player also tried to ruin the plan by PPA or he tried to exploit it (thus ruining it).

I'm just saying that it is possible to ban someone for an out of Graal offense. It has happened many times before.

Milkdude99 · #48 06-15-2003, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyndzey

They didn't just enter. Apparently (I'm not sure of this), the player also tried to ruin the plan by PPA or he tried to exploit it (thus ruining it).

I'm just saying that it is possible to ban someone for an out of Graal offense. It has happened many times before.

If you do and have no clear evidence of foul play to Graal because of an alleged IM chat, then you lay open a lawsuit to Graal. As a paying customer they have rights when they pay to play and as long as they follow the rules of Game play their account cannot be taken away. Again to take away an account you must prove damage to Graal and violation of the terms of use, a mere threat on a chat program will not be grounds in a court of law in any country to take an account away. Until the threat is carried out or a violation of terms of use is found, legally you can do nothing. By doing what your doing Graal can be found in breach of contract by removing access to the Game with no violation of terms of use and will force Graal to settle with monetary damages to the injured party (player). :P

Kaimetsu · #49 06-15-2003, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
If you do and have no clear evidence of foul play to Graal because of an alleged IM chat, then you lay open a lawsuit to Graal. As a paying customer they have rights when they pay to play and as long as they follow the rules of Game play their account cannot be taken away.

I seem to remember there being a clause stating that Graal admins can ban your account at any time for any reason.

And, on the subject of clear evidence: Do you log proof every time you ban somebody? What if they're using a trainer, for example? How do you prove it? You see them do it, but that's just your word against theirs.

KuJiGX · #50 12-07-2003, 05:52 AM

Wow OOOOOLD thread. Anyway im still banned from most servers on my old account KuJi2002 because of being hacked so this is my new acct. Anyway I quit Era. Toooo much Corruptness.
Anyway. This is because of Zidaya. He gave the chat too me. (My brother) telling me to enter etc... I was setup by him as he was pised at me for always owning him and killing him on Era.
-KuJi

WhorDaCor · #51 12-07-2003, 05:57 AM

I have been banned from Era before for "hacking" after i called Chisz an idiot.

KuJiGX · #52 12-07-2003, 06:06 AM

Era should be known as the "We ban you with fake ban reasons" server.

Judge_S · #53 12-07-2003, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KuJiGX
Wow OOOOOLD thread. Anyway im still banned from most servers on my old account KuJi2002 because of being hacked so this is my new acct. Anyway I quit Era. Toooo much Corruptness.
Anyway. This is because of Zidaya. He gave the chat too me. (My brother) telling me to enter etc... I was setup by him as he was pised at me for always owning him and killing him on Era.
-KuJi

And this warranted reviving a half-year old thread, instead of making a new one, why?

KuJiGX · #54 12-07-2003, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judge_S

And this warranted reviving a half-year old thread, instead of making a new one, why?

where does it say the date?

G_yoshi · #55 12-07-2003, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KuJiGX

where does it say the date?

You can see the date of the individual posts by looking under the name profile area (left side of the window).

haunter · #56 12-07-2003, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judge_S

And this warranted reviving a half-year old thread, instead of making a new one, why?

Yeah, really... I read the Thread Title and was like.. .WHAAAA Nemesis is back>!! GAHch* run*

Judge_S · #57 12-07-2003, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KuJiGX

where does it say the date?

Okay, you knew it was old to begin with. Don't feign ignorance.

KuJiGX · #58 12-07-2003, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Judge_S

Okay, you knew it was old to begin with. Don't feign ignorance.

Yes i knew it was old. But my old forum account got deleted. So i was looking through forums and seen this thread. So i thought i would get it straight anyway moderator close thread please.