Servers being hacked || Quitting??

[Nick1988]

It's unfortunate that this happened, but it wouldn't have been a big deal if he had just backed it up.

[osrs]

Originally posted by Nick1988
It's unfortunate that this happened, but it wouldn't have been a big deal if he had just backed it up.

Someone changed server options '

[Zurkiba]

Backups are my friend... aren't they yours?

[protagonist]

Originally posted by Zurkiba
Backups are my friend... aren't they yours?

No they called me stupid .

[superb]

Originally posted by draco5432


So your calling me at fault, or maybe, just maybe, it was PS's, or even R0bins.

No, he was just pointing out that multiple entities and situations caused this to happen while PS was only focusing on Loriel changing the server options.

Originally posted by osrs


Someone changed server options '

He still should have made a backup, ESPECIALLY since he knew that he would be away for a week. He should be blaming himself for the loss rather than the actions of others. Yes, had they not interferred and done their jobs properly, the vulnerability would not have occured, but PS only has himself to blame when deleted work is unrecoverable.

[draco5432]

If to globals go on aura and look, i set my own, and thebluedaggers IP range, yet on shifter i forgot to set it range, know why...cuz he didnt work on shifter.

Besides i did a total staff wipe one day when PS was gone, cuz nothing was getting done without the tileset.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by draco5432
If to globals go on aura and look, i set my own, and thebluedaggers IP range, yet on shifter i forgot to set it range, know why...cuz he didnt work on shifter.

Besides i did a total staff wipe one day when PS was gone, cuz nothing was getting done without the tileset.

So?

[Projectshifter]

Originally posted by Zurkiba
Backups are my friend... aren't they yours?

They are, but considering that I had no REASON... No one had NPC Acess other than R0bin and myself, and if R0bin had screwed up, that would be my fault, but I trust him and have known him for years... the whole thing was that serveroptions were changed which was the icing on the cake... the fact that the IP wasn't set was just a gateway. He shouldn't have even had NPC-Control, I need to check logs and find out WHEN he got this perhaps o_O? He still didn't have any weapon folders =x
---Shifter

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Tseng


I disagree. If some server wants help fixing them, or just decides that the people are trustworthy and should have that right in case something goes wrong, that is their decision.

I disagree with you, it's called security and has nothing to do with trust. No one has any business with serveroptions EXCEPT the Manager NOBODY else on the server should have those rights unless of course you don't care about having a secure server , then all means go ahead and be stupid , it's your server. You don't see this kind of thing happening on Npulse do you? It never has nor will it, why? Because Moonie and I are the only ones with serveroptions rights as it should be but ehh maybe we just care more about this issue than most do and take steps to prevent "little accidents" like these.:|

[Projectshifter]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I disagree with you, it's called security and has nothing to do with trust. No one has any business with serveroptions EXCEPT the Manager NOBODY else on the server should have those rights unless of course you don't care about having a secure server , then all means go ahead and be stupid , it's your server. You don't see this kind of thing happening on Npulse do you? It never has nor will it, why? Because Moonie and I are the only ones with serveroptions rights as it should be but ehh maybe we just care more about this issue than most do and take steps to prevent "little accidents" like these.:|

I'm not trying to be mean... but do you see the staff the NPulse has? And how many players =/ Giving serveroptions isn't a bad thing, as long as you have a backup plan, which I have several, but considering I put too much trust, that was the downfall... I assumed that certain people could handle things... and that they would not overlook small but essential details
---Shifter

[superb]

Originally posted by Projectshifter

I'm not trying to be mean... but do you see the staff the NPulse has? And how many players =/ Giving serveroptions isn't a bad thing, as long as you have a backup plan, which I have several, but considering I put too much trust, that was the downfall... I assumed that certain people could handle things... and that they would not overlook small but essential details
---Shifter

Your main folly was not making a backup actually.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Projectshifter

I'm not trying to be mean... but do you see the staff the NPulse has? And how many players =/ Giving serveroptions isn't a bad thing, as long as you have a backup plan, which I have several, but considering I put too much trust, that was the downfall... I assumed that certain people could handle things... and that they would not overlook small but essential details
---Shifter

???
What is this suppose to mean? How does it make a difference how many staff or players there are?

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I disagree with you, it's called security and has nothing to do with trust.

And I still disagree. Trust and Security are very closely interconnected. If you run a business, would you hire a security guard that you did not feel you could trust? No, becuase it would be just asking for your security to be breached.

No one has any business with serveroptions EXCEPT the Manager NOBODY else on the server should have those rights unless of course you don't care about having a secure server , then all means go ahead and be stupid , it's your server.

Incorrect - if there is a problem with the server options, and the manager asks the global scripting-team member (or even some other staff member who is trustworthy not to ruin things) to fix it, then they have some business having the rights.

You don't see this kind of thing happening on Npulse do you?

No, you don't. Your general lack of staff is in large part responsible for this - if you don't have many staff, there aren't many staff to go wrong with whatever rights they are given.

It never has nor will it, why? Because Moonie and I are the only ones with serveroptions rights as it should be but ehh maybe we just care more about this issue than most do and take steps to prevent "little accidents" like these.:|

For another, these problems are not so much a matter of 'giving the right out' as it is 'giving the right out to the wrong person'. There is nothing objectively wrong with giving the right to people who are trustworthy who can use it to help. And, on these new pay servers, where everyone and their brothers have rights and problems occur frequently, don't you think it's a good idea for one of those people with rights to be someone who is a) knowledgable, b) trustworthy, and c) whose account cannot be directly disabled from the server itself, who can log on and repair things when problems like this exist?

[SilentSkripter1988]

Solution: Get a paintball and shoot people!!!!!

[HoudiniMan]

Originally posted by Tseng
if there is a problem with the server options, and the manager asks the global scripting-team member (or even some other staff member who is trustworthy not to ruin things) to fix it, then they have some business having the rights.

I don't think myself and MG disagree with that part, however the "just in case something happens" senario is complete BS. There are global admins on graal who have server options on every world in case "something happens"... Nobody needs trusted backup staff to do it, that's ridiculous.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by HoudiniMan


I don't think myself and MG disagree with that part, however the "just in case something happens" senario is complete BS. There are global admins on graal who have server options on every world in case "something happens"... Nobody needs trusted backup staff to do it, that's ridiculous.

Whoa, dude, it's not like I go around asking for that. I just said I thought it was a good idea. There's a difference between the two. With some of these servers giving out rights to every tom, (er, Richard), and harry, it is increasing the chances something will go wrong and their server will get 'hacked'. You are telling me that it would not help for one of those people having the rights to be a trustworthy person who already has RC access there, and that is objectively false. And, Lyndzey and Tyhm aren't always there. In fact, Sobek Online is still waiting to be fixed, and it's been what, 3, 4 days? That's a perfect example right there.

[Darlene159]

Tseng, in most cases, you dont know who you can trust and who you cannot. We have had a few staff members who have been on Npulse like forever, were well known, and not troublemakers...they became staff, moved up the ladder, then did some stupid stuff (one, a gp captain or something who reset a bunch of accounts) I fail to see why anyone would need server option rights...you keep saying Npulse dont have alot of staff. So?
Even if we had a large amount of staff and players, we would do things the same way. We do things in a way to protect Npulse as much as we can, I dont see where that is wrong.

It is simple, giving people server option rights is not needed, period. If a problem arises, and it is needed to give a global scripter or whatever the rights in order to fix it, then we can easily do that, and remove it right after. What is the big deal?

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Tseng


And I still disagree. Trust and Security are very closely interconnected. If you run a business, would you hire a security guard that you did not feel you could trust? No, becuase it would be just asking for your security to be breached.

If they are not trusted their not Staff to begin with. But that has nothing to do with the security of the server. The higher up you are the bigger the target for hackers and script kiddies so you limit the chances of a problem here. You have aceptible limits of libility and those that are not , limiting the people who have serveroptions rights to a very few is acceptible; giving them to the high profile Globals are not because they are even bigger targets.

Incorrect - if there is a problem with the server options, and the manager asks the global scripting-team member (or even some other staff member who is trustworthy not to ruin things) to fix it, then they have some business having the rights.

Then you make arrangements for both of you to be there to "fix" the problem , giving out those rights is not the right way to fix an issue.

No, you don't. Your general lack of staff is in large part responsible for this - if you don't have many staff, there aren't many staff to go wrong with whatever rights they are given.

Wrong, we have had Npulse when it was on the top of the Player list so this "theory" doesn't hold water. The amount of Staff or players has no correlation to how a server is managed as to rights of Staff either local or Global. We have plenty of GPs which are the ones who control the gameplay as to the Game rules. What we have is a lack of those who develop the server not run it. (Gats, Nats, Lats)

For another, these problems are not so much a matter of 'giving the right out' as it is 'giving the right out to the wrong person'. There is nothing objectively wrong with giving the right to people who are trustworthy who can use it to help. And, on these new pay servers, where everyone and their brothers have rights and problems occur frequently, don't you think it's a good idea for one of those people with rights to be someone who is a) knowledgable, b) trustworthy, and c) whose account cannot be directly disabled from the server itself, who can log on and repair things when problems like this exist?

Again no I don't agree with this kind of lame thinking , this are isolated occurances because of those who do not make their server secure but giving out to many rights. If you create your own problem by doing this then you have to pay the price of waiting for days or even a week or more to get it fixed. You don't fix the barn door after the animals are already out you fix the problem before it has a chance to occur. Like I said before Globals are bigger targets than Managers and the best way to get at a server is by attacking a person who has the rights to do the most damage to a server. A person may only want to hurt one server but once they are able to access this "Global" then the idea may come " hey lets go on all servers which he has access to alot on " and not only damage one but many. Sorry but this is not an acceptible risk to me or Moonie and why we do what we do and deny serveroptions to Globals. If they are high enough then they already have those rights globally and that is not anything I have control over so that is an acceptible risk. It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not but our track record with Npulse speaks for itself, it is one of the most secure if not the most secure server online ( 2 1/2 years) and it is by no accident it's that way.


Added note: Why make it easier for people doing stupid things to get them fixed? This does not address the problem but perpetuates the issues by letting them exist. Address the root of the problem and fix that don't add to it by letting the problem continue.

[ETD]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
If they are not trusted their not Staff to begin with.

look, the reason WHY you don't have a lot of staff
=o
I told you this over a year ago, when I was still a staff member... you do not trust your staff enough, and because of that, they quit, and do corrupt things... i mean, why keep being good, when no matter what you do, you are never trusted? I think much of n-pulse's past staff quit because of your lack of trust in them (NOT because they are power hungry, or whatever you try to blame it on)

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Wrong, we have had Npulse when it was on the top of the Player list

this is off topic, BUT, what ever happened to you saying that Geo killed n-pulse? i mean, if YOU had n-pulse when it was at the top, then evidently, it wasn't Geo who did it, so why not stop passing the blame onto him, and admitt that n-pulse's decline has been during your management... it's gone from best, to worst all while you were manager, you have just proven that.

Originally posted by Milkdude99
The amount of Staff or players has no correlation to how a server is managed as to rights of Staff either local or Global. We have plenty of GPs which are the ones who control the gameplay as to the Game rules. What we have is a lack of those who develop the server not run it. (Gats, Nats, Lats)

He ment that, if you do not have a lot of players/staff, then the CHANCES of something happen are MUCH lower... and by you saying that you lack developmental staff is only aiding his argument, since those are the ones with the most RC rights. (obviously besides admins and cheif's)... i mean, what can a corrupt FAQ do? lol, just mass things? or a corrupt ET? take money from the ET bank before quitting? most do that anyways...

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Again no I don't agree with this kind of lame thinking

is name calling needed here? i really love how you like to slip little insults into your arguments, then try to pass it off as not flaming
-_-

[Darlene159]

ETD, why are you bringing your personal crap here when people are having a discussion? added note: Moon god didnt call anyone any names, unless "lame thinking" is a name you usually call a person. Dont make this personal, it is a discussion on why people shouldnt or should be allowed to have server option rights...it isnt about Npulse alone.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Tseng, in most cases, you dont know who you can trust and who you cannot.

Your husband disagrees.

We have had a few staff members who have been on Npulse like forever, were well known, and not troublemakers...they became staff, moved up the ladder, then did some stupid stuff (one, a gp captain or something who reset a bunch of accounts)

Again, completely goes against what he said. He said for them to be staff in the first place, they must be trusted, but you say you don't know who you can and cannot trust. He is theoretically right, but you are practically right.

I fail to see why anyone would need server option rights...you keep saying Npulse dont have alot of staff. So?

I have not 'kept saying' that, I said it once. While I have a high opinion of N-Pulse, I was pointing out that with a lower quantity of staff, there are fewer staff that can go wrong. Would you argue with me that that is not the case?

Even if we had a large amount of staff and players, we would do things the same way. We do things in a way to protect Npulse as much as we can, I dont see where that is wrong.

Again - I never said your practices were influenced by the staff count. Your server security is good, and I do not believe I have said something is wrong with it.

It is simple, giving people server option rights is not needed, period. If a problem arises, and it is needed to give a global scripter or whatever the rights in order to fix it, then we can easily do that, and remove it right after. What is the big deal?

Not needed for you - but arguably useful for certain other servers. And, I do not understand what you mean by those last few sentences. You say they're not needed, period (meaning no cases exist where it's needed), and then you list an exception.

Originally posted by Milkdude99
If they are not trusted their not Staff to begin with. But that has nothing to do with the security of the server.

First, I already asked about the direct contradiction between what you and your wife have said. Second, Trust and security are closely interconnected - would you give someone you didn't trust a lot of rights? I wouldnt, because that would be insecure.

The higher up you are the bigger the target for hackers and script kiddies so you limit the chances of a problem here.

So I'm a target. Big deal - graal's 'hackers' are pitiful. In fact, I heard through the grapevine that they "have" "my IP" from when they took over Sobek Online. Now, my IP changes every couple of hours, so that's not really that big a deal to me if they have one IP at one time. The funnier thing is, they think my IP is the only static one (Again, through the grapevine), so I am rather amused by their pathetic attempt to 'pass my IP around for hacking purposes'. Additionally, my firewalls and router are set up so that an incoming attack is deflected every time. I would have to be exercising bad behavior and download a back door for them to be able to hurt me - And I'm careful with what I download/accept.

You have aceptible limits of libility and those that are not , limiting the people who have serveroptions rights to a very few is acceptible; giving them to the high profile Globals are not because they are even bigger targets.

Huh? I don't understand this. Perhaps if I split the part before the first comma, the rest makes sense, but then the first phrase doesn't. "You have acceptable limits of (I'm assuming liability) and those that are not" - huh?

Then you make arrangements for both of you to be there to "fix" the problem , giving out those rights is not the right way to fix an issue.

You should read what I say more carefully - I'm not talking 'give the right forever to fix when they need' in this case, I was pointing out that you said they never should get it at all, when there are arguably cases where they should get it, if even for 5 minutes to fix something. I was pointing out the error in that.

Wrong, we have had Npulse when it was on the top of the Player list so this "theory" doesn't hold water. The amount of Staff or players has no correlation to how a server is managed as to rights of Staff either local or Global. We have plenty of GPs which are the ones who control the gameplay as to the Game rules. What we have is a lack of those who develop the server not run it. (Gats, Nats, Lats)

Your first sentences have nothing to do with what I was saying. As I said, it is more of a "If there are less staff, there are less staff who can go wrong and cause problems" - you cannot argue with this, for to do so would be equal to saying that this statement is false: If I had more doughnuts, then I have more doughnuts which can go stale.

Again no I don't agree with this kind of lame thinking ,

Very mature, for someone who has pointed out people's immaturity in the past.

this are isolated occurances because of those who do not make their server secure but giving out to many rights.

Yes. I have said this already. Reading my posts carefully instead of skimming them and responding to certain words might be beneficial.

If you create your own problem by doing this then you have to pay the price of waiting for days or even a week or more to get it fixed.

Arguable - you would have them punished, others would want the problem fixed as soon as possible. It's arguable which would teach them better.

You don't fix the barn door after the animals are already out you fix the problem before it has a chance to occur.

But if the animals escape, than it'd be nice to fix the barn door so you could put them back in, now wouldn't it?

Like I said before Globals are bigger targets than Managers and the best way to get at a server is by attacking a person who has the rights to do the most damage to a server. A person may only want to hurt one server but once they are able to access this "Global" then the idea may come " hey lets go on all servers which he has access to alot on " and not only damage one but many.

Um, they're called global IP ranges, man. They override local IP ranges, and are very restrictive.

Sorry but this is not an acceptible risk to me or Moonie and why we do what we do and deny serveroptions to Globals. If they are high enough then they already have those rights globally and that is not anything I have control over so that is an acceptible risk.

I'm sorry if 0.000000000001% is too much for you

It doesn't matter if you agree with me or not but our track record with Npulse speaks for itself, it is one of the most secure if not the most secure server online ( 2 1/2 years) and it is by no accident it's that way.

Subjective - As I've seen several servers, I've seen others which are also very secure.

Added note: Why make it easier for people doing stupid things to get them fixed? This does not address the problem but perpetuates the issues by letting them exist. Address the root of the problem and fix that don't add to it by letting the problem continue.

I'm sorry; I don't see how fixing a problem someone causes on a playerworld can possibly be 'letting the problem continue'.

[ETD]

Originally posted by Darlene159
ETD, why are you bringing your personal crap here when people are having a discussion? added note: Moon god didnt call anyone any names, unless "lame thinking" is a name you usually call a person. Dont make this personal, it is a discussion on why people shouldnt or should be allowed to have server option rights...it isnt about Npulse alone.

umm..
#1. what did i say that was "personal crap"?
#2. since when do things in threads stay on topic? i was simply posting a reply, and i DID stay on topic, i just replied to other things in his post as well.
#3. MG was calling Tseng's thinking "lame" - don;t you see how that could be considered name calling? don't be so technical =/

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by ETD

look, the reason WHY you don't have a lot of staff
=o
I told you this over a year ago, when I was still a staff member... you do not trust your staff enough, and because of that, they quit, and do corrupt things... i mean, why keep being good, when no matter what you do, you are never trusted? I think much of n-pulse's past staff quit because of your lack of trust in them (NOT because they are power hungry, or whatever you try to blame it on)

this is off topic, BUT, what ever happened to you saying that Geo killed n-pulse? i mean, if YOU had n-pulse when it was at the top, then evidently, it wasn't Geo who did it, so why not stop passing the blame onto him, and admitt that n-pulse's decline has been during your management... it's gone from best, to worst all while you were manager, you have just proven that.

He ment that, if you do not have a lot of players/staff, then the CHANCES of something happen are MUCH lower... and by you saying that you lack developmental staff is only aiding his argument, since those are the ones with the most RC rights. (obviously besides admins and cheif's)... i mean, what can a corrupt FAQ do? lol, just mass things? or a corrupt ET? take money from the ET bank before quitting? most do that anyways...

is name calling needed here? i really love how you like to slip little insults into your arguments, then try to pass it off as not flaming
-_-

Personal attacks on me by flaming me is not going to help anyone see your view ETD and I have reported your harassment of me here, since you seem to want to report me when I even get remotely close to what you are doing here when your name is involved. When I am addressing Tseng on an issue, which involves him and not you since you are not GST please stay out of it and my post not directed to you.

Originally posted by ETD

umm..
#1. what did i say that was "personal crap"?
#2. since when do things in threads stay on topic? i was simply posting a reply, and i DID stay on topic, i just replied to other things in his post as well.
#3. MG was calling Tseng's thinking "lame" - don;t you see how that could be considered name calling? don't be so technical =/

#1. Same thing you accused me of doing and I got warned for , maybe you need to read your post on what you said.
#2. So this is an excuse now to derail a topic by flaming me?
#3. "Lame thinking" is not calling anyone lame by any stretch, it is merely stating it is not the best way of thinking in my opinion.

[superb]

Sounded more like a comment with a question attached than a flame to me. He just pointed out a possible contradiction in a few things you've said. How is it a flame?

[ETD]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Personal attacks on me by flaming me is not going to help anyone see your view ETD

umm.. when did i flame you? I totally re-read both my posts, and this is a summery of the topics i covered:
1. your distrust in staff has lead to low staff and player numbers.
2. n-pulse was at it's peak when you took over (as you said) and now is probably at it's lowest point in history (true, this last part is an opinion, but i am sure many would agree, and i don;t see it as flaming you really, is it?)
3. about how a low number of staff means less of a chance that something bad could happen (Tseng said the same thing...)
4. you called Tseng's thinking "lame" which is a LOT more of a 'flame' than anything i said.

Originally posted by Milkdude99
and I have reported your harassment of me here, since you seem to want to report me when I even get remotely close to what you are doing here when your name is involved.

you are reporting me for flaming? 0.o' if i get warned for flaming you, because of my last post, i am going to laugh my butt off, because i have seen FAR worse things on this forum that that. i mean, look at the post? what did i do, say you don;t trust enough? is that a flame? OH NO, i don;t think you trust your staff enough! i mean, really... look back on what you said about me... you called ME names, and insulted ME. what you posted about me WAS a flame, and if anyone wants to see, i can quote it here...

Originally posted by Milkdude99
When I am addressing Tseng on an issue, which involves him and not you since you are not GST please stay out of it and my post not directed to you.

ever heard of AIM? Forum PM? a server called graal2001? you can talk to Tseng on any of them if you wish to talk in private...
this IS a forum for all gold/VIP members, am i correct? and as long as i have not broken any rules, then i think i am perfectly entitled to post what i did... i replied to your post, and 1/3 of it was on topic (compared to most posts on these forums, i think that's pretty good lol)

(P.S. - I like how you ignore the subjects of my post, and just try to make me look bad instead)

[Darlene159]

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT NPULSE, KNOCK IT OFF!!!

[HoudiniMan]

Seriously guys, let this thread die. PS hasn't even posted in this thread in a whole day and it has nothing to do with the original topic, start a new one if you want or just drop it.

[ETD]

Originally posted by Darlene159
THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT NPULSE, KNOCK IT OFF!!!

no, it's not about n-pulse
0.o'
it's about trusting staff to have the server options, incase of an emergency... I posted a reply on the topic (yes, some was about n-pulse, but i was not the one who brought n-pulse into this, now was i?), then you and MG just derailed the whole discussion, and were like "OMG, ETD replied to my post! *kill,kill* ETD = BAD!"

anyways, i just wanted to say this, and if there are no more replies, then this thread will die like HM wishes
=)

[Tseng]

My post was on-topic, and I'm still curious as to what their response to that will be.

[superb]

Originally posted by Tseng
My post was on-topic, and I'm still curious as to what their response to that will be.

They'll ignore it most likely. They are pick and choosers.

[TifaKhan]

Aparently it only takes two requests for a thread to be closed for it to be done, so i will make the first one.
I request a Mod close this thread.
I dont doubt that someone will second it.

[Blitz_Hunter]

I second that

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Tseng
My post was on-topic, and I'm still curious as to what their response to that will be.

I will take this up privately with you Tseng since ETD cannot keep his F-ing nose out of my post that don't concern him. And I third the closing of this thread.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I will take this up privately with you Tseng.

Alrighty, though I am not sure what I have left to discuss; I made pretty much all of the points I planned to.