Where is the logic in this?

[GhettoChild]

I dont understand what Angel did on Unholy Nation.

Before any of you say anything i am NOT bad mouthing anyone just trying to figure out where it makes sence

Old Way:

Manager=Kill Joy -There since the begining
Okilian=Co-Manager -There since the begining
NeoJenova=Server Admin -There 3 years
Xecutor=GP Chief -11 Months

ACTION=KillJoy Retired and this is what Angel did.

The GP Chief of 11 months PASSES the CO-MANAGER who has been there since the begining AND the Server Admin of 3 Years and becomes Manager. Now Xecutor I guess admits he should have passed both of them. But this forced NeoJenova to quit...3 years wasted because the GP Chief who wasn't there even a 1/3 of the time she was passed her.

Can someone please explain the logic? I'm kind of confused

[GhettoChild]

The GP Chief of 11 months PASSES the CO-MANAGER who has been there since the begining AND the Server Admin of 3 Years and becomes Manager. Now Xecutor I guess admits he SHOULDN'T have passed both of them. But this forced NeoJenova to quit...3 years wasted because the GP Chief who wasn't there even a 1/3 of the time she was passed her.

[Angel]

err? I didn't select the new Manager. The current Manager and all the staff argued that the "GP Chief" would be the best new manager. So I told KJ to stay for one more week and have Xecutor be a trial manager to see how he handles decision and I would monitor it. I dont want to force a new manager on them. I would prefer the person that most/all active staff voted in would be the best manager. Dont you?

-EDIT
NeoJenova was there when I was talking to all staff. If NeoJenova has a problem they should of told me don't ya think??????
-END EDIT

[NeoJenova]

Originally posted by Angel
-EDIT
NeoJenova was there when I was talking to all staff. If NeoJenova has a problem they should of told me don't ya think??????
-END EDIT

Well, first time I contacted you on AIM and you responded I said nevermind cause I didn't want to sound like a complainer. Second time I contacted you on AIM you never responded back... so... I did try to tell you what I thought of it. I told KillJoy and Xecutor what I thought about it aswell.

I still do not want to complain about this situation. It is pretty much over and done, even though I don't agree with it.

[Spark910]

I would have said the co-manager should be the new manager. Ideally the manager should have decided on someone who he thought was responsible enough for the job, so problems like this wouldnt occur, and the chances are he´d pick the co-manager. Or if not, there cant be much objections, as its managers choice.

So I dont really know if thats makes much difference, if the co-manager would return, or the manager would pick someone, but thats the way I would do it as I know the co-manager slightly and considering he is the highest position, and hes been there long enough, and I consider him a good enough manager, he´d be suited for the job.

[--Chris--]

I don't think how long you've been there means jack squat considering all of them seem to have been there for a long period of time and I'm positive they all know just as much about the server as the other so it's really an issue of who's more qualified or seems to be best suited for the job.

[Spark910]

Originally posted by --Chris--
I don't think how long you've been there means jack squat considering all of them seem to have been there for a long period of time and I'm positive they all know just as much about the server as the other so it's really an issue of who's more qualified or seems to be best suited for the job.

Well out of those 4 staff, I only know the co-manager and admin. But that means nothing, just I havent got to know the others. So opinions would help in such a matter.

[GhettoChild]

Why did a global staff need to get involved? Did KillJoy ASK for Global help?

[Spark910]

Originally posted by GhettoChild
Why did a global staff need to get involved? Did KillJoy ASK for Global help?

If the manager left, leaving no manager to take his place, then it needs to be decided on. If people objected to the co-manager being manager, then someone would step in to sort out the problems. But good Q, why was someone involved in the first place. And take into account I dont know anything right now. Im still in sunny spain.

[NeoJenova]

KillJoy had a vote between all the staff on who should take his place as Manager of Unholy Nation. Choices were between

Xecutor -GP Chief
Okilian -Co-Manager
Me -Server Admin

They didn't choose Okilian because most staff thinks he does nothing to help the server in anyway.

This is my opinion but I think they didn't choose me because over the last couple months I have seemed like a bad guy taking rights and such, of staff that has no need for them.
Example: GFX Admin with full levels rw.

There was also a big ordeal over reseting hats on UN. Which was going to happen regardless due to a person who should not have had levels rights uploading a money script and players were getting outrageous ammounts of money and buying all the hats they wanted. They got mad at me because I didn't consult a Manager first which I will take the blame for.

They choose Xecutor because he has done no wrong, he also doesn't have to make decisions like that. Since he was a GP Chief.

I myself even voted for Xecutor, given a choice between Okilian and Xecutor.

My reason for disagreeing with the choice of manager is that I don't believe I deserved to be passed up like this. The time I have spent on the server is of no importance other then my experience making the sort of decisions Xecutor will now have to make. My only problem is what I have done for the server during my time there, I just think I earned the respect that I didn't get at the time this decision on who the new manager would be.

In any case Xecutor is a great guy, and I know he will do a great job whether he deserves the spot or not. The work ahead of him is tough. Best of Luck to Xecutor

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Spark910


If the manager left, leaving no manager to take his place, then it needs to be decided on. If people objected to the co-manager being manager, then someone would step in to sort out the problems. But good Q, why was someone involved in the first place. And take into account I dont know anything right now. Im still in sunny spain.

Was he a Co-Manager or an asst Manager ? Co Managers have the SAME rights to the server as the Manager mainly because that is what they are BOTH Managers with equal powers and rights to a server NOT a step down. The Asst Manager is a step down NOT a Co Manager. Let me put it this way , Managers including Co Managers "own" and run the server everyone else is an employee of this 2 people and work for them , a Co Manager does not work for the Manager because they are the same but BOTH work for the server. If a Manager leaves for some reason the Co Manager is then the sole Manager and is up to him/her if they desire to have another Co Manager or not. If this was done any other way then you people screwed up and don't know the difference between a Co Manager and an Asst Manager.

[NeoJenova]

Xecutor:

Originally posted by GhettoChild
Manager=Kill Joy -There since the begining
Okilian=Co-Manager -There since the begining
NeoJenova=Server Admin -There 3 years
Xecutor=GP Chief -11 Months

Just want to get this straight, UnholyNation has only been out for about 26 months (2 years and 2 months), approximately. Okilian was the only staff listed above who has worked on UN since the beginning (26 months). You can say he was not appointed Manager because there was someone better suited (as thought of by the Manager), this has occurred 3 times now. KillJoy has been staff for about 23-24 months. NeoJenova, I'm not sure maybe about 18 months or so...but it's a couple months less that KJ and longer than I have been staff which is about 11 months to a year, this month
.

But this forced NeoJenova to quit

No one was forced to quit, you could say emotions had got the best of him...but I'm sure his judgement was cluttered as would others' be in the same predicament.

Originally posted by --Chris--
I don't think how long you've been there means jack squat considering all of them seem to have been there for a long period of time and I'm positive they all know just as much about the server as the other so it's really an issue of who's more qualified or seems to be best suited for the job.

I agree with you on this, not because it is the case here, but because it would be plain logic to have a person who is the best suited for the job take the position and not someone who has just been there longer. This is questionable in the current situation though, I guess you can say we were all qualified in one way or another to take over management.

Originally posted by GhettoChild
Why did a global staff need to get involved? Did KillJoy ASK for Global help?

Originally posted by Spark910
But good Q, why was someone involved in the first place.

Well KJ did not request for Global help, but this might be the reason why Angel got involved.

I don't know if I'll be posting again seeing as I have gotten NeoJenova to post this for me. But I am willing to work something out if it's that much of a problem, even if it means giving up my current position. Also, NeoJenova knows he is welcome back to return although that is not what this situation is about. What needs to be done here, if necessary, is that KJ should be spoken to about the matter, although it has been done already by the four parties. We will work something out. Sorry for the long post.

[Spark910]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Was he a Co-Manager or an asst Manager ? Co Managers have the SAME rights to the server as the Manager mainly because that is what they are BOTH Managers with equal powers and rights to a server NOT a step down. The Asst Manager is a step down NOT a Co Manager. Let me put it this way , Managers including Co Managers "own" and run the server everyone else is an employee of this 2 people and work for them , a Co Manager does not work for the Manager because they are the same but BOTH work for the server. If a Manager leaves for some reason the Co Manager is then the sole Manager and is up to him/her if they desire to have another Co Manager or not. If this was done any other way then you people screwed up and don't know the difference between a Co Manager and an Asst Manager.

Im aware that co-manager and manager are the same. The 'co' part implies that it your partner, your 'company'. However on graal it seems to mean less than a manager, which is why it gets confusing. I personally would say that co is the same, while managers may say he/she is above the co-manager, I will need to iron this out when I return, to stop things like this from happening.

And yeah, thats post
I was trying to keep a track of things, but no. I have to now go manually over every single playerworld to keep a track of managers, and to find half the time about 10% of PWs have totaly switched around with managers. I got things like

If a manager wishes to leave, then he will leave. A time limit of staying manager? What a joke! This isn't any legal contract, they aren't paid, and they have no reason to follow such rules.

But no. Now we end up where we are, with some PWs with managers just quitting, E.g: Maloria a while back, and there are fights for the manager spot. I was trying to sort things out, but it didnt work, so there x)x

And..

They didn't choose Okilian because most staff thinks he does nothing to help the server in anyway.

So who is this message from, these posts.. I take it its the co-manager? And your complaining that a GP Chief was put above you? Well heres what I think, if this is Ok's msg being posted:

A GP Chief shouldnt go straight to manager, does this person even develop at all, and can he/she help with UN development? Even if he/she can, its not fair that he/she skips the co-manager. So I think for now its best to put Ok as Manager, and see how it goes.

[Ziro_Vitrudestec]

Here's my advice, and what I believe to be the best options
1) Clear the staff list
2) Bring back Nemesis to global staff
3) Have him choose the next manager (ONLY 1, WE ALL KNOW CO-MANGER IS JUST A JOKE BECAUSE IT'S MORE LIKE SUB-MANAGER, except in the case of the Moons [btw,if they get divorced, do they each get half of the server?])
4) Let the manager bring back staff he wants, or get new ones also
5) Fix up the server (especially the ugly overworld), making UN an alternative to G2k1 (especially for people who want old bodies, and yin-yang system, and no punch system)
6) Reset player information
7) Turn UN into a gold server after a 2 week grace period to let people try this new place
8) Reset player information

[NovaNET]

Let me guess someone put angel in charge of UN now? Heh she did nothing there kinda like she did nothing on shaded legend she worked for sl for a few days and was fired for being a loud mouth and bragging to players about being a staff.

Originally posted by GhettoChild
I dont understand what Angel did on Unholy Nation.

Before any of you say anything i am NOT bad mouthing anyone just trying to figure out where it makes sence

Old Way:

Manager=Kill Joy -There since the begining
Okilian=Co-Manager -There since the begining
NeoJenova=Server Admin -There 3 years
Xecutor=GP Chief -11 Months

ACTION=KillJoy Retired and this is what Angel did.

The GP Chief of 11 months PASSES the CO-MANAGER who has been there since the begining AND the Server Admin of 3 Years and becomes Manager. Now Xecutor I guess admits he should have passed both of them. But this forced NeoJenova to quit...3 years wasted because the GP Chief who wasn't there even a 1/3 of the time she was passed her.

Can someone please explain the logic? I'm kind of confused

[protagonist]

Originally posted by Ziro_Vitrudestec
Here's my advice, and what I believe to be the best options
1) Clear the staff list
2) Bring back Nemesis to global staff
3) Have him choose the next manager (ONLY 1, WE ALL KNOW CO-MANGER IS JUST A JOKE BECAUSE IT'S MORE LIKE SUB-MANAGER, except in the case of the Moons [btw,if they get divorced, do they each get half of the server?])
4) Let the manager bring back staff he wants, or get new ones also
5) Fix up the server (especially the ugly overworld), making UN an alternative to G2k1 (especially for people who want old bodies, and yin-yang system, and no punch system)
6) Reset player information
7) Turn UN into a gold server after a 2 week grace period to let people try this new place
8) Reset player information

Hahahahahahaha go away. Go away. Leave and never come back. #2 hahahaha. Go away. Never come back. I won't even bother pointing out your flaws hahaha. #2 hahahaha. Go away.


First of all, time means very little when the decision of Manager comes up. Both Oki and X are in my opinion on the same page, they have always been very nice, very agreeable people. They don't go parading their power around, they use it when needed. If someone abuses power, they get punished for it. But they don't punish everyone for it.

I don't think a global was needed at all, personally. It wasn't really asked for, and the transission was going smoothly as it was. People agreed more or less, it wasn't anything that was going to jeopordize UN or Graal.


[EDIT] And it was KillJoy's decision to give Xecutor manager, not Angel's. [/EDIT]

[superb]

Originally posted by NovaNET
Let me guess someone put angel in charge of UN now? Heh she did nothing there kinda like she did nothing on shaded legend she worked for sl for a few days and was fired for being a loud mouth and bragging to players about being a staff.

For the last time...stop acting like a little brat. So you have problems with Angel...That's fine...You don't have to post hatred and flames about her every time her name is mentioned.

[protagonist]

Originally posted by superb


For the last time...stop acting like a little brat. So you have problems with Angel...That's fine...You don't have to post hatred and flames about her every time her name is mentioned.

He's going to be taking a ride on the Moderator's Boot Express if he's not careful, he's already been warned about his negativity :|.

[Myst1337]

Originally posted by protagonist



Hahahahahahaha go away. Go away. Leave and never come back. #2 hahahaha. Go away. Never come back. I won't even bother pointing out your flaws hahaha. #2 hahahaha. Go away.

:O Read my mind : )

[Angel]

Originally posted by NovaNET
Let me guess someone put angel in charge of UN now? Heh she did nothing there kinda like she did nothing on shaded legend she worked for sl for a few days and was fired for being a loud mouth and bragging to players about being a staff.

To protagonist:
A global (Myself) was just there to supervise. It's just a rule we have to supervisor to make sure it's a fair exchange to the new manager and not for any other (Corrupt) reason.

To Nova:
OK first, err wtf?

Second, I'm not staff on UN or anything, I'm global I helped them when they were changing manager. UN is a important part of graal so I dont want to force ANYTHING onto them or any server. So I let the current manager and staff select the next to be Manager. That's all I did. Then I check up on them to make sure everything is going fine!.

Third. I worked on SL for 3 months and was never fired. I quit once cause I was busy working on Frolic and didn't want to work there when I didn't have to them to be dedicated.

[Myst1337]

:O Killjoy decided to make Xecutor Manager.. for only God knows why. Most of us know that if they went the way of making Co Manager Manager and Admin Co Manager, Okilian would've been Manager awhile back... I remember atleast 1 or 2 occasions (sp?) when there was a new manager and Okilian was Admin (or Asst Admin i forget) and he stayed it. Though some people say Okilian never works..thats the way it wudve been if they went by the method. But HELLO, have they ever gone by this method?! Ever..? Ok than. Last thing, I think Manta and LiquidIce were the only "working managers" of UN. We will just have to see about Xecutor. All i can say is goodluck.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Spark910


Im aware that co-manager and manager are the same. The 'co' part implies that it your partner, your 'company'. However on graal it seems to mean less than a manager, which is why it gets confusing. I personally would say that co is the same, while managers may say he/she is above the co-manager, I will need to iron this out when I return, to stop things like this from happening.

Spark have we not discussed this in length in the Mod Forum and the PW Managers Forum? Co Managers ARE THE SAME NOT DIFFERENT. Damnit don't you people understand the English language? CO means more than one, Manager means to manage so where the sam hill do you get it is lower? Just because some kids on here don't understand the English language? Pffft IT HAS NEVER BEEN any different than this, only by those who wished to understand it otherwise so as to NOT give up any power. You people are really beginning to get on my nerves on this subject, Moonie and I are NOT and exception nor the rule and we are BOTH CO- Managers of Npulse, always have been and always will be. I don't know why I even bother with this :grrr: , ignorance is bliss I suppose...

[NeoJenova]

Maybe what confuses people is that maybe sometimes the Manager of the server can hire/fire the Co-Manager but the Co-Manager can not fire/hire a Manager... Maybe that confuses people to think they are not on the same level of power.

[superb]

Originally posted by Milkdude99

Spark have we not discussed this in length in the Mod Forum and the PW Managers Forum? Co Managers ARE THE SAME NOT DIFFERENT. Damnit don't you people understand the English language? CO means more than one, Manager means to manage so where the sam hill do you get it is lower? Just because some kids on here don't understand the English language? Pffft IT HAS NEVER BEEN any different than this, only by those who wished to understand it otherwise so as to NOT give up any power. You people are really beginning to get on my nerves on this subject, Moonie and I are NOT and exception nor the rule and we are BOTH CO- Managers of Npulse, always have been and always will be. I don't know why I even bother with this :grrr: , ignorance is bliss I suppose...

No need to be an ass.

[Questa]

Originally posted by GhettoChild
I dont understand what Angel did on Unholy Nation.

Before any of you say anything i am NOT bad mouthing anyone just trying to figure out where it makes sence

Old Way:

Manager=Kill Joy -There since the begining
Okilian=Co-Manager -There since the begining
NeoJenova=Server Admin -There 3 years
Xecutor=GP Chief -11 Months

I still have no idea why people think UN was made 3-4 years ago. Come on people,

UN was put up in June 2001

2003
-2001
______
2 years


That's all I wanted to say, thanks.

[NeoJenova]

Originally posted by Questa

I still have no idea why people think UN was made 3-4 years ago. Come on people,

UN was put up in June 2001

2003
-2001
______
2 years


That's all I wanted to say, thanks.

**** NEWB!!! <3!

[Snakeandy7]

That's a bit dumb, even if neo did no work or what ever, i highly doubt a gp chief as manager lol, paradox 4 manager, One of the best level maker's he will do good for the server, or okilian, or neo jenova, but not a gp chief..

[Mykel]

I agree with Moon God. That's why my other manager has an Asst. Manager tag.

[MysticHasteP2P_2]

Actually Angel I fired you after about 2 weeks, because you were online once and didn't seem to come back since.

So Nova was right, but only just partly.

Nova: Stop with the hate posts, its not proving anything.

[superb]

Originally posted by Mykel
I agree with Moon God. That's why my other manager has an Asst. Manager tag.

I know he's technically correct, but he didn't have to be wacko about it.

[Questa]

Originally posted by NeoJenova



**** NEWB!!! <3!

Hehe <3

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by NeoJenova
Maybe what confuses people is that maybe sometimes the Manager of the server can hire/fire the Co-Manager but the Co-Manager can not fire/hire a Manager... Maybe that confuses people to think they are not on the same level of power.

A Manager CANNOT FIRE a Co Manager , Jesus H Christ why is it you people are so dense. They have EQUAL POWER and one DOES NOT have POWER over the other. They BOTH own 50/50 of the server , one is NOT an employee of the other as IS the case with an Asst Manager. THIS is the difference between a Co- Manager and an Asst Manager. Is this clear enough for you people now? Or do I have to direct you to dictionary.com to have it spell out the meaning of Co-Manager. You wonder why I am being such an ass over this? Maybe because no matter how I explain it someone still doesn't get it.

Once a Manager gives another person the rights to Co Manager then they are giving over half their rights to that person of the server. The ONLY way a Co Manager can be removed is by the PWA and there MUST be a very good reason for their removal because they ARE one of the Owner/ Managers of the server. Again if they are made Asst Manager they can be fired at any time for good reason because they ARE an employee of the Manager/and or Managers of that server and the PWA does not have to be involved as long as it is a justifed reason. I hope this is clearer to those who still didn't get it because there is no way clearer I can explain this.

I'm Sorry if I come off as an Ass about this but it is very annoying to see this so misused and abused by so many on Graal. So if you decide as a Manager to have a Co Manager be very sure that is what you want because you give up rights to the server and the right of their removal other than thru the PWA if you do. If you have doubts then make them Asst .Manager, this is a step down and they ARE an employee of yours.

[superb]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
A Manager CANNOT FIRE a Co Manager , Jesus H Christ why is it you people are so dense. They have EQUAL POWER and one DOES NOT have POWER over the other. They BOTH own 50/50 of the server , one is NOT an employee of the other as IS the case with an Asst Manager. THIS is the difference between a Co- Manager and an Asst Manager. Is this clear enough for you people now? Or do I have to direct you to dictionary.com to have it spell out the meaning of Co-Manager. You wonder why I am being such an ass over this? Maybe because no matter how I explain it someone still doesn't get it.

Once a Manager gives another person the rights to Co Manager then they are giving over half their rights to that person of the server. The ONLY way a Co Manager can be removed is by the PWA and there MUST be a very good reason for their removal because they ARE one of the Owner/ Managers of the server. Again if they are made Asst Manager they can be fired at any time for good reason because they ARE an employee of the Manager/and or Managers of that server and the PWA does not have to be involved as long as it is a justifed reason. I hope this is clearer to those who still didn't get it because there is no way clearer I can explain this.

I'm Sorry if I come off as an Ass about this but it is very annoying to see this so misused and abused by so many on Graal. So if you decide as a Manager to have a Co Manager be very sure that is what you want because you give up rights to the server and the right of their removal other than thru the PWA if you do. If you have doubts then make them Asst .Manager, this is a step down and they ARE an employee of yours.

Again, get over it. That might be the way it SHOULD be done, but it isn't done that way on quite a few servers. You can't do much to change that. No need to flip out over something you have no control over.

[protagonist]

Wasn't it a rule that Co-Managers were equal to Managers?

[superb]

Originally posted by protagonist
Wasn't it a rule that Co-Managers were equal to Managers?

I don't know, but I do know it's not enforced on most servers if it is.