Player World hosting

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by Spark910


You had one for free before, graal2001!
Anyhow.. I may do what i think hes doing. Not use it for a PW, just use it to test and basically host stuff off.

That should be made illegal to do, unless they add something for players to see/do. With a price as low as the people say here, unix will still be paying most of the money for the servers.

[draygin]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade





That should be made illegal to do, unless they add something for players to see/do. With a price as low as the people say here, unix will still be paying most of the money for the servers.

That's just stupid making that illegal. If they're paying the fee's and not using the services Unixmad is just getting an extra profit from it since the resources arn't being used up. Which would fall under the private server option. Now if they made it a public playerworld then maybe but saying they have to be activly making a playerworld when they're already shelling out money is just stupid. They shouldn't have to do anything if they dont want to since they're paying for what they're using. That would be like saying they should make it illegal to buy accounts and then not use them to play on servers.

[brock128]

Originally posted by Spark910


You had one for free before, graal2001!

And you were going to have another free one - Graal 2230.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by ETD


since when is hosting that much?
0.o'
$50 a month is $600 a year... who the heck would pay $600 a year for this? I mean, seriously...

even $30 a month is $360 a year...

the price i have heard all along was $15 to $20 a month... that was the price that was talked about earlier, i don't see why they would need to double it...

Since the question was directed to UNIXMAD NOT ETD your question is irrelevant. I suggest you check around the web like I did 2 years ago ETD, eCommerce sites are not your cheap 'freebie' sites like Geocities and you get what you pay for. Somebody is paying for Bandwidth and it is not unreasonable to reason this cost WILL come down to the PW "buyers".

Originally posted by Birdbird_0
If the price is fair, I'd be interested in buying a server.

This is why I asked this question of Unixmad because I too may be interested in taking Npulse this way. I will go on record here and now and say I think the prices you guys are quoting are way off base and I sincerely believe that most of you are in for a rude awakening when the prices are announced. I believe 90% of you here will either be unwilling or unable to afford to buy a server, if I am wrong then I am wrong but at this moment I don't think so and is mainly why I haven't said a word on price because I think you people are way off beat on this.

[Spark910]

I was going to pay $125 a month for website hosting. Problem was, I never found a good team to start my website project. MoonGod your a cool person, if you know PHP. Give me a call*

*Figure of speach: email, AIM, ICQ, Forum PM, Reply!

[ETD]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Since the question was directed to UNIXMAD NOT ETD your question is irrelevant.

Now i can't ask you questions? 0.o'

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I suggest you check around the web like I did 2 years ago ETD, eCommerce sites are not your cheap 'freebie' sites like Geocities and you get what you pay for. Somebody is paying for Bandwidth and it is not unreasonable to reason this cost WILL come down to the PW "buyers".

I did look... and i now have web hosting, e-mail addresses, and all that... FREE
Things like that aren't all that expencive if you know the right people. Besides, i bet Graal buys everything in bulk... meaning cheaper prices.

Originally posted by Milkdude99
This is why I asked this question of Unixmad because I too may be interested in taking Npulse this way.

why would you pay for a server, when you have a free one right now? The only difference would be that you wouldn't have to worry about getting shut down by the PWA, or follow their rules... unless you're going to turn n-pulse into a privare server, and only let the people you want on... other than that, I don't see the difference

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I will go on record here and now and say I think the prices you guys are quoting are way off base and I sincerely believe that most of you are in for a rude awakening when the prices are announced.

I heard 2 quotes in the past... one was $10 - $20 a month, and the other was $15 - $20 a month... and they are from people who would know about this =0 If it's more, then i guess i'm wrong... but the price which was talked about in the past was $20 a month.

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I believe 90% of you here will either be unwilling or unable to afford to buy a server, if I am wrong then I am wrong but at this moment I don't think so and is mainly why I haven't said a word on price because I think you people are way off beat on this.

MG, didn't you say $30-$50? you haven't said a word on pricing lol, you've said tons in your past 2 posts :P

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by ETD

Now i can't ask you questions? 0.o'

I did look... and i now have web hosting, e-mail addresses, and all that... FREE
Things like that aren't all that expencive if you know the right people. Besides, i bet Graal buys everything in bulk... meaning cheaper prices.

why would you pay for a server, when you have a free one right now? The only difference would be that you wouldn't have to worry about getting shut down by the PWA, or follow their rules... unless you're going to turn n-pulse into a privare server, and only let the people you want on... other than that, I don't see the difference

I heard 2 quotes in the past... one was $10 - $20 a month, and the other was $15 - $20 a month... and they are from people who would know about this =0 If it's more, then i guess i'm wrong... but the price which was talked about in the past was $20 a month.

MG, didn't you say $30-$50? you haven't said a word on pricing lol, you've said tons in your past 2 posts :P

I was not quoting prices but asking a question to Unixmad not YOU, again you butt you freaking nose in where it does not belong. If I had something to say to you I would start the post ETD but that post didn't start that way did it? It was (again for you that are intellectually challenged) DIRECTED TO UNIXMAD NOT YOU < SO PLEASE BUTT OUT. Is this simple enough for you ETD or should I send a voice mail since you cannot read; maybe you can hear?

[ETD]

*states the obviouse*

MG,

#1. yes, the question you asked was directed at Unixmad

#2. did i reply about the QUESTION you asked unix? NO!

try going back, and look at what i quoted, and what i responded to... then maybe it will make sence how you are totally over-reacting....

Yelling, and name calling isn't going to get you anywhere MG, why not settle down.

I had every right to respond to your post... if you think i should not have, then that's you opinion, there is no rule saying "ETD can not respond to MG's posts"
=X
Look, i'm not trying to make trouble here... instead of over reacting like that, why not try to have an intelligent, and seriouse conversation...

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by ETD

Now i can't ask you questions? 0.o'

No I prefer you didn't

I did look... and i now have web hosting, e-mail addresses, and all that... FREE
Things like that aren't all that expencive if you know the right people. Besides, i bet Graal buys everything in bulk... meaning cheaper prices.

You get what you pay for , there is a big differece in what I have and what you have.

why would you pay for a server, when you have a free one right now? The only difference would be that you wouldn't have to worry about getting shut down by the PWA, or follow their rules... unless you're going to turn n-pulse into a privare server, and only let the people you want on... other than that, I don't see the difference

To put it simply , if I wanted you to know I would have told you. What I have in mind is my business and not yours. I do not care to explain why here or anywhere else with you on this, worry about EOA and not Npulse.

I heard 2 quotes in the past... one was $10 - $20 a month, and the other was $15 - $20 a month... and they are from people who would know about this =0 If it's more, then i guess i'm wrong... but the price which was talked about in the past was $20 a month.

MG, didn't you say $30-$50? you haven't said a word on pricing lol, you've said tons in your past 2 posts :P

Again read my post I made NO quote only asked a question of Unixmad and it had nothing to do with you at all so why bother commenting on it? You only follow me around this Forum and post where I do to annoy me with your incessant misreading of what I say and post. I would really perfer you didn't respond to anything I post because 99% of the time it is not directed to you, I would rather not speak to you at all.

[MedievalSmurf]

I have ask Tyhm (one of the Graalonline staff ) all about this new player world system and this is what he had to say.

(me asking )
I would like to inquiry in how much are you goys planning to charge for Player world hosting. I would like to see a pice range , sense i will end buy one when they come available.
This option should only be open to Vip`s or Vip`s should be charged at a lower rate , becouse i dont really see the point of been a Vip.
I would also like to know what provilages would we be getting if why bought a player world hosting account ?
Would we be given scripts to interact with our web sites and our playworld servers ?
Would be be aloud to use graal2002 graphics?
Would there be ways for people to donate there money?
and do we get our pw logo printed on any Graalonline merchandise?
I am just asking you this becouse i am working on my playerworld project "MedievalGraal" and i hope to see it up as alist playerworld some day , i am make my own graphics so i can use the 3d graal terrain. The only thing i dont like about make graphics is drawing the buildings.
How did you make buildings for graal kingdoms ?
i hope hear for you some time soon , if like to visit my web site it is www.medievalgraal.com
ok thanks
(tyhm )
Price Range - if I get my way, it'll depend entirely on how many people choose to upgrade based on your world. If enough like your world, we'll actually pay YOU as if you were advertising our service. If nobody upgrades or you let everyone in for free, probably around $60 a month I'd guess - that's how much it costs US to rent a server. Hard to tell though, and that'd be if 0 people register based on your server.
VIPs - They don't get a discount; they do get access to more support tools. We're still debating if only VIPs can host: right now the consensus is yes, as we don't want people hosting worlds that can't even be bothered to sign up for scripting updates.
Priveleges - isn't it obvious? You get a PW all to yourself.
Tools - Pretty much anything we can cook up, everyone gets. Right now we don't have a lot of connection between our own website and Graal (because our webmaster decided the task was too trivial to bother with and it was lagging both servers), but I'm fairly sure something will be worked out.
G2K2 - not just the graphics. If things work out the way they seem to be headed, you can start out with a lite version of G2K2 to modify as you see fit.
Donations - The short version is, if you want to donate, buy an account from the PW you like. Every PW will have a website, so I suppose it would be technically possible to set up a Paypal Donation link; whether or not we'll be happy about it remains to be seen, it's kind of a big deal if our affiliates are making more money than our coder.
Logo - Well, you get your PW logo on Graal in a way. As for the TShirts and so forth...maybe. If this thing really takes off, we might license TShirts with your Graal PW's logo.
Buildings on Graal Kingdoms - we hired a graphics artist to do that stuff. It's essentially scanned in and colored as I understand it, and placed via gani. Works rather nicely.

[Mykel]

Thanks man, that helps a lot.

[MedievalSmurf]

Originally posted by Mykel
Thanks man, that helps a lot.

Sure no prob , just trying to be a help

[Milkdude99]

Setting up a PayPal donation link is very easy to do , I already have one such link on the Npulse site.

http://graal-npulse.com/site_files/index.html

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by MedievalSmurf
I have ask Tyhm (one of the Graalonline staff ) all about this new player world system and this is what he had to say.

Very nice

[Jeff]

Paid servers with nothing for the public should certainly be legal. It'd give more scripters the ability to do serverside work without having to become a NAT member somewhere with all the duties thereof.

[HoudiniMan]

I think the "modular" cost idea where you can pick options instead of a set package is a good idea.

I'd want 100-500mb space (dunno how much i'd need) with RC and an NPC server... that's all i'd need really. Ideally i'd pay $10 a month, but i'd go $15 (USD)... Higher than that and it's not really worth it, also adding things like a website will not make me want to pay extra if it's part of a more expensive "package" (as in "you'd have to pay a little bit more for this package but look at all the cool things you get!"... that wouldn't work very well.)

[Spark910]

Originally posted by HoudiniMan
I think the "modular" cost idea where you can pick options instead of a set package is a good idea.

I'd want 100-500mb space (dunno how much i'd need) with RC and an NPC server... that's all i'd need really. Ideally i'd pay $10 a month, but i'd go $15 (USD)... Higher than that and it's not really worth it, also adding things like a website will not make me want to pay extra if it's part of a more expensive "package" (as in "you'd have to pay a little bit more for this package but look at all the cool things you get!"... that wouldn't work very well.)

It would be nice to know how much space is used up for each PW. So they would have an idea of the cost. Unix can you post basic costs, when you decide some prices, for all the PWs currently online, so they would know what they have to pay should they want to keep what they have when payment comes in.

[MedievalSmurf]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Setting up a PayPal donation link is very easy to do , I already have one such link on the Npulse site.

http://graal-npulse.com/site_files/index.html

I agree with you its easy to setup a PayPal donation link , but
you need a credit card to do that and i dont want people to giving
there donation to my moms card and i would think alot of other people dont want there parents getting there donation .

I probably get my own credit card soon anyway , ( I hope )

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by MedievalSmurf

I agree with you its easy to setup a PayPal donation link , but
you need a credit card to do that and i dont want people to giving
there donation to my moms card and i would think alot of other people dont want there parents getting there donation .

I probably get my own credit card soon anyway , ( I hope )

It doesn't go the the Card , it goes to your PayPal account . It has nothing to do with your Credit Card. I have a Business PayPal account with a PayPal debit card that works off my PayPal account, the PayPal account works like a checking account with the debit Card. The limits are what is in your PayPal account. I have had a PayPal account longer than I have played Graal (over 3 years) so I have some knowedge of how PayPal works if someone needs to know something I would be glad to help them.

[MedievalSmurf]

There is one big problem about this new system that will be introduced , Its not going to get new players and its going to lose some players. Graal is not giving Trial players a good enough changes to get into the Game. What i think graal should introduce is a "free for all week" or "free for all weekend". What is this you ask? LoL:-) . Well , my idea is to give each Player worlds a few days a year where they can open there servers to all types of players (E.g New Trial members). This would be a great opportunities of getting new trial members to sign "pay to pay" and a great way of getting graal and your Player world knowed to the world (Mahahaha ,{ Smurfs ,evil laugh } Furst we take graal , then we take the World, Mahahaha ). Anyway back to the subject thats at hand.
I would advice everyone thats want to keep or get a Player Hosting server upgrade to Vip becouse the way things are heading , Vip`s might be the only ones allowed to apply for hosting sense they will get all scripts update and other tools and other crap.

Anyway i have a big question to ask you all , Should i try and persuade my friends to help me translate Graal into Chinese?
LoL:-) By "Graal" i mean my player world project LoL:-)
If he agrees , Graal could gane alot more p2p players ,heheheheheh

[MedievalSmurf]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
It doesn't go the the Card , it goes to your PayPal account . It has nothing to do with your Credit Card. I have a Business PayPal account with a PayPal debit card that works off my PayPal account, the PayPal account works like a checking account with the debit Card. The limits are what is in your PayPal account. I have had a PayPal account longer than I have played Graal (over 3 years) so I have some knowedge of how PayPal works if someone needs to know something I would be glad to help them.

Sweet , Could you please tell me more about the "PayPal debit card"?
Can anyone sign up? and is it easy to setup?

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by MedievalSmurf

Sweet , Could you please tell me more about the "PayPal debit card"?
Can anyone sign up? and is it easy to setup?

If you have a PayPal account already all you have to do is request one, when you log on just look for the info on it ,(should be to your left of the screen). I will add to this post as soon as I log on PayPal and I will copy and paste the info about it.



How do I get the PayPal ATM/Debit Card?

The PayPal ATM/Debit Card is available to users who:
1.Have been a PayPal member for at least 60 days
2.Have a U.S. PayPal account
3.Have registered a credit card where the monthly statement is sent to a physical street address (not a P.O. Box)
4.Are Verified (have added and confirmed a bank account)
5.Have upgraded to a Premier or Business account
6.Are an active PayPal member in good standing, as determined by our Account Review Department
If you meet the above requirements, click the ATM/Debit Card link in the footer of any PayPal page to request your card.

[syltburk]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
If you have a PayPal account already all you have to do is request one, when you log on just look for the info on it ,(should be to your left of the screen). I will add to this post as soon as I log on PayPal and I will copy and paste the info about it.

have you like ever, got a problem with it

like you paid one, but it says u payed 2 times?

i would like to now

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by syltburk


have you like ever, got a problem with it

like you paid one, but it says u payed 2 times?

i would like to now

If it shows 2x you have the ablity of cancelling one of them. I haven't had that problem but it sounds like you refreshed a pending charge when it was processing and it will do it 2x if you do, thats why most places tell you to only hit the submit button one time. If you have a dispute or a duplicate charge either cancel one or contact support about the problem and do what they tell you to do. You could also contact the vender and explain it , it should show you paid 2x , most will either refund you the money (if the transaction is already completed) or if it is pending cancel one of them.

[konidias]

This could make or break my playerworld. I have NO money to spend monthly.

I'm definitely not going to pay money just to have what I have right now. My playerworld will never be completed if I have to pay money to work.

I sure hope they continue to allow private Under Construction pw's for free, because it's stupid to think I'm going to get anyone upgrading their account to play my playerworld that doesn't even completely exist yet.

I'm sure once the playerworld is online, I'll pay whatever, and I'll have people upgrading so I can maybe earn profit. But this will never happen if I'm forced to pay just so I can have an npc server while developing my playerworld.

Anyway, this whole plan sounds kinda good, but then again, it needs to be described better, and of course, have prices, so that it's a lot easier to understand. Because right now, I can't make heads or tails of it.

[ETD]

Originally posted by konidias
if I'm forced to pay just so I can have an npc server while developing my playerworld.

Do you know how lucky you are to be able to develope your server WITH an NPC server there?

you know, you could always try making your server the old fashioned way... offline, like most of the rest of us
=X

[Jeff]

Originally posted by ETD

Do you know how lucky you are to be able to develope your server WITH an NPC server there?

you know, you could always try making your server the old fashioned way... offline, like most of the rest of us
=X

Some servers, such as Oasis, are so complex that the NPC server is needed for the completion of much developmental work.

[konidias]

Originally posted by Jeff



Some servers, such as Oasis, are so complex that the NPC server is needed for the completion of much developmental work.

Yeah, like the fact that everything important needs to be serverside so that it's safer against cheats. I have a new item system and it works with strings edited on the server, meaning I can't do a lot of stuff clientside.

It's like taking steps back for no reason. Why do I have to suffer not having an NPC server just because that's how it was done in the past? This isn't the past, and playerworlds rely more and more on NPC servers for a lot of things.

[ETD]

Originally posted by konidias
This isn't the past, and playerworlds rely more and more on NPC servers for a lot of things.

Then why not give all good developing PWs an NPC server to work with?

don't get me wrong, i think Oasis will be great... but expecting special treatment isn't something i like to see from someone.

Just to give an example... EverWorld... the whole server was made offline... they sent it in around January i think (maybe febuary)... and it is STILL in the reviewing prossess, even though it passed the first level of reviews before Angel quit (meaning only Nem, and Stefan have to pass it) Yet it is still being reviewed, after many months...

Whereas Shifting Ages was STARTED in January... their tileset is still being worked on, and i dunno about number of levels, or quests, or anything... but they already have a test server.

I do agree that all servers are different... and servers of higher quality should be given more for their hard work... But still, if a PW is good enough to go online, then it's good enough to go online... a server either passes, or fails... if a server passes, then i think it should be treated just like any other server that passes... know what i mean?
--------------------------
summery - if a server is good enough to go online, then it should be treated just like any other server that is good enough to go online... even if one is of higher quality.
-------------------------
and anyways, i don't think any servers that are up now would have to worry about paying... i think this is just for NEW servers which do not wish to get online the traditional way (PWA), or wish to stay totally private...

[cody1990]

how about you give the Playerworld owners the ability to host on their own servers or yours and $3 a month for npc server

[Johnny_5]

Yea , why dont they just hand them the source code.

[adam]

Originally posted by konidias


Yeah, like the fact that everything important needs to be serverside so that it's safer against cheats. I have a new item system and it works with strings edited on the server, meaning I can't do a lot of stuff clientside.

It's like taking steps back for no reason. Why do I have to suffer not having an NPC server just because that's how it was done in the past? This isn't the past, and playerworlds rely more and more on NPC servers for a lot of things.

Yes I know what you mean. It's impossible to do anything worthwhile without starting most of the development while already online.

But I don't see how you can do it without 2-3 people online to test.

[PrinceDark]

Originally posted by ETD

Just to give an example... EverWorld... the whole server was made offline... they sent it in around January i think (maybe febuary)... and it is STILL in the reviewing prossess, even though it passed the first level of reviews before Angel quit (meaning only Nem, and Stefan have to pass it) Yet it is still being reviewed, after many months...

The reason Everworld isn't up right now is because Nemesis has it on a waiting list of things to do. He said he's most likely going to fire Arcadius for what Arc did to Moonie's guild and not allow it to go up.
According to the rules, if a Manager quits or gets fired while the playerworld is not public it will be shut down.

This is what I was informed of.

Criminal X -Everworld Admin-

[Soul-Blade]

Originally posted by ETD

Then why not give all good developing PWs an NPC server to work with?

don't get me wrong, i think Oasis will be great... but expecting special treatment isn't something i like to see from someone.

Just to give an example... EverWorld... the whole server was made offline... they sent it in around January i think (maybe febuary)... and it is STILL in the reviewing prossess, even though it passed the first level of reviews before Angel quit (meaning only Nem, and Stefan have to pass it) Yet it is still being reviewed, after many months...

Whereas Shifting Ages was STARTED in January... their tileset is still being worked on, and i dunno about number of levels, or quests, or anything... but they already have a test server.

I do agree that all servers are different... and servers of higher quality should be given more for their hard work... But still, if a PW is good enough to go online, then it's good enough to go online... a server either passes, or fails... if a server passes, then i think it should be treated just like any other server that passes... know what i mean?
--------------------------
summery - if a server is good enough to go online, then it should be treated just like any other server that is good enough to go online... even if one is of higher quality.
-------------------------
and anyways, i don't think any servers that are up now would have to worry about paying... i think this is just for NEW servers which do not wish to get online the traditional way (PWA), or wish to stay totally private...

Wanmandan or whatever owns everworld? I hope it does not get up. He IMs me giving me crap becasue I got up and he didn't. Should tell you a thing or 2 about his PW...he is clearly not a mature, responsible owner so I think he should not get a server.

As for being online, it is unfair. But that is life. There are only 2 other worlds I think look good, and they are both online (DK and Oasis). I think there is a good chance yours will to, but it appears in the classic format. My own PW, Oasis, and DK are bring something new and original to graal, just as Graal Kingdoms did. And that is exactly what graal needs.

[Spark910]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade

<yup>

But the 'new' stuff isn't very popular it seems. If you start adding custom bodies, and RP, and big GFX, and custom HP and life systems, it:

1.) Doesn't appeal to lower connection people
2.) Puts off PKers
3.) Lags and isnt as smooth as normal control systems

Overall its okay for something new, but as we can clearly see from UN, I would have thought Era would be something cool and new so that all players played that, but still UN gets more than Era. If you take the parts that makes a PW good for players, it no longer appeals. Im sure those will get a fairly high PlayerCount, but I honestly doubt it will be excesivly high.

[draygin]

Partly right, Era was above UN until they started resetting, going private etc.. these snafu's annoyed players and had them go else where. UN has an established playerbase. People have history and know each other. They dont want to be newbies all over again and build up status etc... New players come click on the playerworld with the largest population and go there. So UN stays at the top. A player world with nice graphics, realtivly bug free, no major foul ups such as resets just a week or two after release, not going private again etc.. could easily remove un from the top. The only hard part would be getting people interested in starting all over.

[Spark910]

Yeah. Although I personally, don't like RP on graal, as I am yet to see it being done well. Also alot of classic members just like a good PW to be on. So it could be held against them with all new systems.

And yes, Era lost most players through resets etc...

[ETD]

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
Wanmandan or whatever owns everworld? I hope it does not get up. He IMs me giving me crap becasue I got up and he didn't. Should tell you a thing or 2 about his PW...he is clearly not a mature, responsible owner so I think he should not get a server.

Umm... Arcadius is owner 0.o' I think you're thinking of a different PW...

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
I think there is a good chance yours will to, but it appears in the classic format.

Thank you, and yes, it's classic... but i think graal not only needs new things, but also improvments to the 'classic' style... I think that a classic style server, which is of high quality, and is very active (like, new things being added often, and lots of events, and things to do) will be something that a lot of people will want...

most servers have stopped updating regularly (like adding new quests, and NPC's and such), and I would like to change that... add a new quest every few weeks, add a new event every few weeks... and especially add new levels every day
=0
i know it'll be hard, but i think my team is ready for it

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by PrinceDark


The reason Everworld isn't up right now is because Nemesis has it on a waiting list of things to do. He said he's most likely going to fire Arcadius for what Arc did to Moonie's guild and not allow it to go up.
According to the rules, if a Manager quits or gets fired while the playerworld is not public it will be shut down.

This is what I was informed of.

Criminal X -Everworld Admin-

Just to set the record straight , it is my Guild not Moonies . I am the one that started the Guild " Moon Family".

[Spark910]

Originally posted by ETD

Umm... Arcadius is owner 0.o' I think you're thinking of a different PW...

Thank you, and yes, it's classic... but i think graal not only needs new things, but also improvments to the 'classic' style... I think that a classic style server, which is of high quality, and is very active (like, new things being added often, and lots of events, and things to do) will be something that a lot of people will want...

This is what Rudora should be. We are not having over the top things that are pointless, and are trying to offer alot of things to do. Most PWs got carried away when none P2P was taken away, and they all merged into a modified mess of levels and script.

We are trying to offer graal players what most servers lost, a good place to hangout, things to do, lots of events, updates and most of all they lost the old feel to graal as all PWs have modified their levels into an over-the-top mess of tiles.

Anyway, enough about Rudora, as this is not 100% on-topic.