Should this be made a requirement?

[Aestus]

It's a great idea, and I'll defend it to the grave, god damnit. A small loss in player count from those who don't have machines capable of running light effects will be well worth the wealth of new and exciting possibilities for such a playerworld.

Originally posted by screen_name
I can see where you are coming from koni, but many people, such as myself, do not have video card's that will support light effects.

I would hate to not be able to play a playerworld because of this.

Just as I would hate to see promising features scrapped because some people haven't upgraded their machine since 1998.

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

A SMALL drop in the playercount?? WILL YOU PLEASE THINK FOR A MINUTE?? Most people play Graal because it has relatively low-end requirements. You will lose at least HALF the playercount if you incorporate it.

[AlexH]

What if lighting lags players on slower computers?
They have to suffer and not play the server because they are lagged?
Bad bad bad idea.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
A SMALL drop in the playercount?? WILL YOU PLEASE THINK FOR A MINUTE?? Most people play Graal because it has relatively low-end requirements. You will lose at least HALF the playercount if you incorporate it.

Actually, no, people play Graal because they find it fun

Graal eats system resources like crazy...as a matter of fact, I'm offline on my new overworld and Graal is using about ~55MB. I imagine it uses even more depending upon what is currently in "play" so to speak. Anyone that has anything less than 64mb would not want to play on my PW...even if they have 64mb, it wouldn't probably be wise.

Graal is no where near being ideal for low-end systems...not in the least Besides, I never said I would ban people, that is a waste...I would just simply be redirecting them, but I'm still debating on if I should do that or not once the new overworld is released

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

I know at least 5 people that play Graal because their current computers can't support games such as Warcraft 3. If they did this they had better prepare for alot of refunds or a lot of complaints.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
I know at least 5 people that play Graal because their current computers can't support games such as Warcraft 3. If they did this they had better prepare for alot of refunds or a lot of complaints.

Um, wtf?! Refund? Graal.exe and any associated file you download is 100% free Besides, none of us (or at least myself) have no interest in banning people for crappy computers...just simply redirecting till they get one that will be able to handle what I've got

Please keep in mind that my new overworld is terrain...that does incur a lot of RAM...especially for NPCs which the 192MB (actually ~188MB) RAM on my laptop could handle but there was a slight slow down; nothing horrid, everything still played fine, just a small drop in frames...but that is also due to the fact that my laptop only had an 8mb video card on it. But my new "behemoth" computer is more than capable of this and then some...even more if I could just get my hands on the Radeon 9700

[konidias]

I don't understand why people are getting so upset.

Lighting effects and the sort are getting more and more frequent. It's getting to the point where if you don't have lighting effects, the server you're playing on will drastically decrease in quality.

Okay, imagine you're playing my pw Oasis. I use transparency for all shadows, I use light effects for spells, and I use transparency for swimming in the water.

If you had no lighting effects, all the "shadows" would be solid black, the spells would be solid graphics, and when you swim in water, it would look like you're just laying on top of it. If you're willing to sacrifice quality for a small increase in framerate, then don't complain to me when you think my pw is bad because you don't have lights.

[Flamingblaze]

56k people unfortunately have a bad time with lights. Hell I have a good connection and lights lag me but that's cuz the *****s lately seem to think that putting lights all over a level will cover up their pathetic tiling skills.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by konidias
I don't understand why people are getting so upset.

Lighting effects and the sort are getting more and more frequent. It's getting to the point where if you don't have lighting effects, the server you're playing on will drastically decrease in quality.

Okay, imagine you're playing my pw Oasis. I use transparency for all shadows, I use light effects for spells, and I use transparency for swimming in the water.

If you had no lighting effects, all the "shadows" would be solid black, the spells would be solid graphics, and when you swim in water, it would look like you're just laying on top of it. If you're willing to sacrifice quality for a small increase in framerate, then don't complain to me when you think my pw is bad because you don't have lights.

I agree

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by Flamingblaze
56k people unfortunately have a bad time with lights. Hell I have a good connection and lights lag me but that's cuz the *****s lately seem to think that putting lights all over a level will cover up their pathetic tiling skills.

*cough* I am using a 56k *cough*

[Python523]

gyoshi...you dont need to use withgetplayer(#a) after actionplayeronline, the active player is already set on that script

and Stefan already has a way to disable most default things (default walking, rating, and Q menu) but I think he just edit's the g-server for that, which is why on 2k2, when the npc server is down, people without weapons already loaded freeze (like when they logon) BUT a way to enable/disable things like rating at will with script would be nice

and back to the topic, graal is slowly evolving into a game that will use more and more special effects, just like computers are gradually getting better and better, I think right now it would be hard to buy a computer from any 'good' computer companys (dell, gateway, etc etc) that would not support light effects on graal, right now tyhm makes it so if you don't have light effects enabled, you get a lamp so when it is night time, people can still see you, but the players still get to 'cheat' a little bit since they will be able to walk around freely without 'bumping' into walls since they will be able to see the level like it was day time while for others it will be pitch black, I personally think an ability to not allow people who cant support directx stuff to play would be a step towards the right direction for playerworlds that will have a lot of eyecandy (shadows, spell effects, etc etc)

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by Python523
gyoshi...you dont need to use withgetplayer(#a) after actionplayeronline, the active player is already set on that script

and Stefan already has a way to disable most default things (default walking, rating, and Q menu) but I think he just edit's the g-server for that, which is why on 2k2, when the npc server is down, people without weapons already loaded freeze (like when they logon) BUT a way to enable/disable things like rating at will with script would be nice

and back to the topic, graal is slowly evolving into a game that will use more and more special effects, just like computers are gradually getting better and better, I think right now it would be hard to buy a computer from any 'good' computer companys (dell, gateway, etc etc) that would not support light effects on graal, right now tyhm makes it so if you don't have light effects enabled, you get a lamp so when it is night time, people can still see you, but the players still get to 'cheat' a little bit since they will be able to walk around freely without 'bumping' into walls since they will be able to see the level like it was day time while for others it will be pitch black, I personally think an ability to not allow people who cant support directx stuff to play would be a step towards the right direction for playerworlds that will have a lot of eyecandy (shadows, spell effects, etc etc)

Yes, but I think the real thing is is that people don't want to be penalized for having low-end systems. However, that is not our fault. The biggest problem anyone with a low-end system has is getting a new computer. Most parents are very quick to dismiss the idea of a new computer since they spent so much money on the previous one...they obviously feel its capable of doing everything no matter what.

Its a little difficult to educate those kinds of people because they don't completely understand how a computer works persay. Most just believe what the clerk pitches to them because they don't know any better...all that clerk is interested in is getting his or her commission for a big sale.

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

Do you base your entire moral system on "Uh, well, it's not my fault."? If you go out and hire an assassin to kill someone, you won't be killing them. It won't be your fault that the assassin did it's job right.

For the longest time I watched these forums without my p2p account. I thought all people here were stuck-up, but then I discovered this was not so. Unfortunately, there obviously still are people who have no concept of fairness and apparently are snobbish in nature. I'm so sick of someone trying to screw over someone else.

I bought my p2p account. I am entitled to use it. Graal is supposed to be a damned game. It's bad enough games have system requirements(however, it's neccesary). So now you're going to purposely put system requirements on servers? Gee, that is smart.

Forcing people to buy p2p is reasonable, because it covers the game costs. Forcing people to buy new computers is unreasonable, because it makes no difference to Cyberjouers. It's just letting the strongest survive.

[nyghtGT]

Originally posted by konidias

There is nothing in the agreement stating that the service you're paying for will be void if you're computer can't meet the requirements. You pay to ACCESS the servers. That is all you are paying for. You are not paying to play the servers, you're paying to access them.

You make it sound like people with bad computers don't deserve to play. Well if that's the case, we better file lawsuits on every company that has produced a pc game with requirements, as they are being unfair to the people using 75 mhz processors with an etch a sketch for a monitor.

I totally agree, this is why they give you the ghost/trial accounts or whatever it is now, and let you run Graal on your computer and see how things look. Once your pay your not getting your money back.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
Do you base your entire moral system on "Uh, well, it's not my fault."? If you go out and hire an assassin to kill someone, you won't be killing them. It won't be your fault that the assassin did it's job right.

For the longest time I watched these forums without my p2p account. I thought all people here were stuck-up, but then I discovered this was not so. Unfortunately, there obviously still are people who have no concept of fairness and apparently are snobbish in nature. I'm so sick of someone trying to screw over someone else.

I bought my p2p account. I am entitled to use it. Graal is supposed to be a damned game. It's bad enough games have system requirements(however, it's neccesary). So now you're going to purposely put system requirements on servers? Gee, that is smart.

Forcing people to buy p2p is reasonable, because it covers the game costs. Forcing people to buy new computers is unreasonable, because it makes no difference to Cyberjouers. It's just letting the strongest survive.

Um, now where does it say that we as playerworld designers/owners are responsible for tailoring things to suit low-end users? It is not our fault that you have such a crap computer and it is wrong to penalize us because of that. You're free to play on my PW at anytime if you want...even when the new overworld is out...I just can't garauntee your time will be enjoyable as you sift through all that lag

I am not saying that you can't ever play on my PW, I'm just saying that until your computer can safely remaing stable while on it, you should just stay away I'm not trying to "screw" anyone over....I just don't feel I should be held responsible for something I have no control over...just like how you cannot file lawsuits againts PC game companies because the software doesn't run since your computer is a worthless pile.

Also, please pay attention to the fact that I mentioned earlier about upgrading your computer. Your "dinosaur" of a machine isn't going to cut it much longer...you'll either have to buy an entirely new computer, or simply upgrade the one you have now...they aren't made to last for all eternity And also please learn to use the quote button....

[G_yoshi]

I think I already stated this but, how is it my fault that your computer is bad? I have no control over it so therefore I'm not responsible, ok? If things didn't have posted requirements, we'd have lots of complaints.

[Flamingblaze]

Originally posted by G_yoshi


Um, now where does it say that we as playerworld designers/owners are responsible for tailoring things to suit low-end users? It is not our fault that you have such a crap computer and it is wrong to penalize us because of that. You're free to play on my PW at anytime if you want...even when the new overworld is out...I just can't garauntee your time will be enjoyable as you sift through all that lag

I am not saying that you can't ever play on my PW, I'm just saying that until your computer can safely remaing stable while on it, you should just stay away I'm not trying to "screw" anyone over....I just don't feel I should be held responsible for something I have no control over...just like how you cannot file lawsuits againts PC game companies because the software doesn't run since your computer is a worthless pile.

Also, please pay attention to the fact that I mentioned earlier about upgrading your computer. Your "dinosaur" of a machine isn't going to cut it much longer...you'll either have to buy an entirely new computer, or simply upgrade the one you have now...they aren't made to last for all eternity And also please learn to use the quote button....

Alot of these kids are 12-15 they can't get jobs yet and if their parents won't upgrade they have no way to make enough money.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by Flamingblaze
Alot of these kids are 12-15 they can't get jobs yet and if their parents won't upgrade they have no way to make enough money.

Still, that is not my problem :/ I have absolutely no control over their computer nor should I.

[Falcor]

It does get rather tiresome making a workaround for the people that can't see lights =\

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

I'm not saying that it's your fault for us having bad computers. I'm saying it's your fault for encouraging this requirement.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
I'm not saying that it's your fault for us having bad computers. I'm saying it's your fault for encouraging this requirement.

Its called a standard

No one is going to get banned. All I'm doing is warning because you'll otherwise be incapable of playing on my PW whenever the new overworld is up and running

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

I prefer to have the standards set at the same level as when I bought my p2p account.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
I prefer to have the standards set at the same level as when I bought my p2p account.

Sorry, life is never fair ;p

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

It is when you pay for it.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
It is when you pay for it.

Sorry, but aesthetics can only do so much to shroud your vision from what is really happening...no matter what, life is never fair.

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

Neither is misleading a person saying that they have access to all servers when they only have access to the ones that don't have the light restrictions.

[konidias]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
Neither is misleading a person saying that they have access to all servers when they only have access to the ones that don't have the light restrictions.

No one said you wouldn't have access to the server. You just won't be able to get past the "requirement" level.

If you read the agreement, it says you can't get refunded, no matter what they do. So if Stefan decided to ban your account from every server, you couldn't get a refund. If you think that's unfair, then guess what, you shouldn't have agreed to the conditions.

I don't know wtf kind of computers you people are using, but unless you're using a friggin 10 year old computer, I don't see how you could be having such a big problem. Like I said earlier, you guys that are having problems with lighting effects, it's probably not even your hardware, it's probably your lack of updating the drivers.

Plus, you aren't looking at the big picture. You say "well light effects lag me down".. but to what extent? Sure if you go on one of birdbird infamous levels, with the 50 lights and seteffect, and zoom effect and every other effect, it's going to lag. But a level with a couple of lights shouldn't make a big difference.

No one is forcing you to get a new computer. If I put up a requirement I'm not telling you to buy a new computer, I'm telling you what the requirements are. Just because I say "you need at least this much processing speed to play" doesn't mean you HAVE to buy a new computer. Hell, no one is forcing you to PLAY on my playerworld. You have access to the pw, but you can't actually play it... that is in no way my fault.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by konidias


No one said you wouldn't have access to the server. You just won't be able to get past the "requirement" level.

If you read the agreement, it says you can't get refunded, no matter what they do. So if Stefan decided to ban your account from every server, you couldn't get a refund. If you think that's unfair, then guess what, you shouldn't have agreed to the conditions.

I don't know wtf kind of computers you people are using, but unless you're using a friggin 10 year old computer, I don't see how you could be having such a big problem. Like I said earlier, you guys that are having problems with lighting effects, it's probably not even your hardware, it's probably your lack of updating the drivers.

Plus, you aren't looking at the big picture. You say "well light effects lag me down".. but to what extent? Sure if you go on one of birdbird infamous levels, with the 50 lights and seteffect, and zoom effect and every other effect, it's going to lag. But a level with a couple of lights shouldn't make a big difference.

No one is forcing you to get a new computer. If I put up a requirement I'm not telling you to buy a new computer, I'm telling you what the requirements are. Just because I say "you need at least this much processing speed to play" doesn't mean you HAVE to buy a new computer. Hell, no one is forcing you to PLAY on my playerworld. You have access to the pw, but you can't actually play it... that is in no way my fault.

I agree

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

Yeah, well I hope to God that any PW that tries to push for this restriction is failed. Not out of ill will, but because of what will ensue.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by VampiricTutorNewHD
Yeah, well I hope to God that any PW that tries to push for this restriction is failed. Not out of ill will, but because of what will ensue.

I already am going to backup Konidias on this one...my PW is already online and the new overworld will soon be on its way.

[AlexH]

I still don't think it should be a requirment.
A sign saying something like if you have light effects disabled the quality of the server will decrease greatly and you will not be allowed into certain ares like the caves that would always be dark.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by AlexH
I still don't think it should be a requirment.
A sign saying something like if you have light effects disabled the quality of the server will decrease greatly and you will not be allowed into certain ares like the caves that would always be dark.

Um, thats more harsh than just being kind and ushering them off to another server. Allowing them to play, yet restricting them is like dangling a piece of candy in front of child just beyond their reach...its more like torture And as Konidias said, its not like we're going to have levels ala Birdbird

[konidias]

Originally posted by AlexH
I still don't think it should be a requirment.
A sign saying something like if you have light effects disabled the quality of the server will decrease greatly and you will not be allowed into certain ares like the caves that would always be dark.

"I'm sorry, but since you don't have light effects enabled, you won't be allowed to go inside houses, caves, or other buildings, as they can be affected by lighting. Also, all outside areas will be off limits, as the day and night setting will be in effect there as well. Have a nice day!"

What if caves are a vital part of the pw? What if some important item is located in a cave? Oh well, you get screwed. I don't think that would work.. it's easier to just not allow the nonlighting players to play, instead of having to make workarounds and such.

I highly doubt a pw with these restrictions will "fail". That would be stupid, just because you get your undies in a bunch from not being able to have full access to the server, doesn't mean the playerworld is auto-failed.

[Torankusu]

I agree with konidias on this one.

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

Yes, but I daresay that the playercount will be signifigantly lower than usual. I mean, about 1/2 of Graalians like pking/sparring alot. That's all they do. You can't spar or pk with lights enabled, so basically you are cutting your population by at least half. An estimated quarter of the population left probably have slow computers(because face it, alot of people do have slow computers), and they will simply find the server too slow to be playable. So now you have your 10 people that will put up with the standards.


Which would be a shame, from what I've heard about it.

[Torankusu]

i have a pentium 2 processor, geforce2, and a whole 128mb of ram. I run perfectly fine with lights, sounds, automapping, AIM on, and the forums open aswell as RC.

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

Alot of people who play graal have 8 meg video cards or less. I've asked them.