Cynical: Review #3

_0AfTeRsHoCk0_ · #1 08-31-2002, 10:27 AM

While reviewing this server I had to keep two things in mind almost all of the time.
1) The new rules created by Stefan, enforced by Nemesis (see Nem's sticky)
2) The idea that this server has been under construction for a long time, meaning it's more of a "classic" type server.

Anyways, here we go:

The begining started out very nice. The GUI, although simple, said a lot especially how you could customize your HP bars. The q menu was very nice too, though it was a bit confusing (or maybe it was just buggy, a minor problem).

Creativity - 8/10 - Keeping in mind this server has been under construction for a while, I can understand why though some of it may not seem totally creative, it in fact is. The jobs themselves were new, which is a plus, and the server seems to be guild friendly (is US a guild?) which will most certainly attract players. Other neat little add-ons to the overworld which kind of summarize in a pardoy what Graal is about (NPC's doing funny stuff). It seemed as if this server knows what people like and want, and the audience he is targetting for his server.

Levels - 9/10 - The levels were excellent, especially using the the regular tileset. Could barely find any tile errors, and I thought the use of tiles were good. I understand in some quests tiles are supposed to be funny or accomodate the scenario, but I thought a better combination of colors and tiles could have been used. Again, this is a minor squabble, the levels overall were very nice. I also saw some empty spots, like Torankusu mentioned which could be for future development, but even not including that the server meets all the requirements and more to get online.

NPC's - 7-10 - Many of the NPC's seem to be "classic", but there were a few new additions which I thought for nice. I had to keep remind myself this server was not out to impress it's flashy new NPC's and such, so I thought that the NPC's and NPCw's sufficed. The GUI was nice, you can customize it somewhat, and the q menu looked very nice as well.

Quests - 5.5/10 - This is where my main dilemma is, and it's soemthing I thought of for a long time. Yes, the server has tons of quests, 10 or more, and some are very tricky to get into, which is very nice and how it should be. But a lot of the quests were indeed "slash the baddies" (I can name a few to the owners of affiliates if they'd like) even though it's a classic server, the storyline should have been tied in more with them. So at what point do I sacrifice quality for repetetiveness and genre? This will probably be the most controversial mark I will give.

Storyline - 5.5/10 - Having a storyline for every server may be a bad thing. Look at servers like UN (okay, I shouldn't be comparing those kind of server with this, it's a bad comparison), but I mean, would UN look funny if it indeed did have a storyline? I'd say so. I was expecting to be the big hero, but it turns out that the server is totally not geared for anything of the sort. Either you should develop the storyline more into quests and the overworld, which will be difficult with the kind of environment you have, or perhaps scrap the storyline,which wouldn't be hard at all. Not having a storyline for a server isn't necessarily a bad thing, I know for this server it probably wouldn't be.

Overall score 35/50

Cynical's status: Fail

I know this is adding insult to injury, but yesterday the new rules came into play, and I know that someone's working on your website, but it still isn't done and completed, so the server hasn't met the standards. While you still have room to develop the server itself, it still has more than enough to meet the requirements in levels, things to do, etc.

No, it doesn't deserve a red fail, it was quite good actually. I wouldn't be surprised if the server was turned back in within a few weeks for another review, because there wasn't much wrong with it. Take your time on the website too, no sloppy low quality ones, make it as good a quality as you would your levels, NPC's on your server itself, no need to rush. I have two main recommendations, though you can IM me for more later

1) Do something with the storyline
2) Improve the quests

Again, sorry to the team, I don't expect this'll set you back far.

Legondary_MyTH · #2 08-31-2002, 10:28 AM

AWWWW i wanted to see it so bad

Pith · #3 08-31-2002, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _0AfTeRsHoCk0_

Overall score 35/50

Cynical's status: Fail

thats 70% which equals a passing grade

_0AfTeRsHoCk0_ · #4 08-31-2002, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pith

thats 70% which equals a passing grade

I do believe the passing grade is 37, and even if it did pass, it doesn't meet the requirements with a website.

bigkow44 · #5 08-31-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _0AfTeRsHoCk0_

I do believe the passing grade is 37, and even if it did pass, it doesn't meet the requirements with a website.

I wanted to see Cynical...After getting a 9 on levels.

Bortlad · #6 08-31-2002, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by _0AfTeRsHoCk0_
[Bthe server seems to be guild friendly (is US a guild?) which will most certainly attract players. [/B]

US is a guild on Classic server.
The owner used to be a member and he has an old version of the US town that is currently on Classic server.

I don't know if this is the website that he is going to keep or not but this is the one i have.

http://www.geocities.com/boojgraal/

TheFrozenFiend · #7 08-31-2002, 06:22 PM

The website rule is stupid.
Half the servers up dont have a website and another quarter NEVER update it.

Plus, unless Im going insane, there is a website with the latest map, news and so on.

"or perhaps scrap the storyline"

If there is no storyline then wouldnt it get 0/10?

I dont see how a server that got high marks for creativity, levels and NPCs can fail.
Some servers that are currently up (not mentioning names) would NEVER pass this test.

I was looking forward to a new server to play.

Timpan3 · #8 08-31-2002, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFrozenFiend
The website rule is stupid.
Half the servers up dont have a website and another quarter NEVER update it.

Amen!

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFrozenFiend

I dont see how a server that got high marks for creativity, levels and NPCs can fail.
Some servers that are currently up (not mentioning names) would NEVER pass this test.

Amen x2!!!

Duo · #9 08-31-2002, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkow44

I wanted to see Cynical...After getting a 9 on levels.

RavenTelvecho · #10 08-31-2002, 08:16 PM

sdasdfasd

Quote:

I spoke with him about playerworlds and such. As of right now any playerworlds passed, please don't harp and harass us to put them up. Why? Because we don't have a place to send them as of yet. Which is what I am currently trying to achieve.

To business. If you decide to create a playerworld. Many of you have and will continue to the end of time, the following additions must be present upon submission.

It says for those who are gonig to submit, it didnt say anything about the ones in queue. Plus I was making one I told you to hold it =/
And your grading for quests is incorrect, the questing is one of the highlights.
ID finish it now but im going to wonderland

RavenTelvecho · #11 08-31-2002, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by _0AfTeRsHoCk0_

No, it doesn't deserve a red fail, it was quite good actually. I wouldn't be surprised if the server was turned back in within a few weeks for another review, because there wasn't much wrong with it. Take your time on the website too, no sloppy low quality ones, make it as good a quality as you would your levels, NPC's on your server itself, no need to rush. I have two main recommendations, though you can IM me for more later

I dont produce sloppy work thank you. And you will get your website soon enought =/.

And when we resubmit is it all over again?? 1#?

Torankusu · #12 08-31-2002, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RavenTelvecho
sdasdfasd

It says for those who are gonig to submit, it didnt say anything about the ones in queue. Plus I was making one I told you to hold it =/
And your grading for quests is incorrect, the questing is one of the highlights.
ID finish it now but im going to wonderland

i find this justified.

They didn't submit, they were waiting.

brock128 · #13 08-31-2002, 09:25 PM

Excuse me while I curse.

I WANT A NEW PW.

konidias · #14 08-31-2002, 09:36 PM

Why is "Storyline" even a section in the review? What if the server is purposely made to have no storyline? They would have to get super high scores in everything else because they get a 0 on story?

Not all online games need storylines...

TheFrozenFiend · #15 08-31-2002, 09:52 PM

While I am taking the server submit rules apart Id like to mention another problem.

You have ratings for creativity, levels, npcs, storyline and quests. Yet you dont have one of the most important ones. Graal is a game yet you dont rate how fun it is?
Thats the biggest problem with most servers. They work on their little graphics and new tilesets and super advanced npcs but when it comes down to it the server ends up being BORING. They are no fun to play after an hour.
Quests should be replaced with the fun factor or, if you like, the "Lasting Appeal".
Thats why Graal 2001 is so dull (imo). They have some nice levels and some good NPCs. But then its pretty much pressing the D button over and over to get some money. Then go buy a hat. Then repeat the process until you feel like throwing your computer out the window.

A much better rating system would be this (and it took me 5 seconds to think of it)

Creativity: X/5 (How different is the server?)
Levels: X/5 (The quality and quantity of levels)
NPCS: X/5 (The quality and quantity of NPCs)
Storyline: X/5 (How good is the storyline. If there is none then this isnt taken into account as it isnt neccesary)
Fun Factor: X/25 (Is it fun to play)
Tilt: X/10 (If theresa certain thing that is done really well then points are gave here)

So thats:
55 if there is a storyline. They should need 38 more more to pass.
50 if there isnt one. They should need 35 or more to pass.

Also, seeing as the rules have changed, shouldnt current servers be tested to see if they meet the standards? I doubt 75% of them will.

Torankusu · #16 08-31-2002, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
Why is "Storyline" even a section in the review? What if the server is purposely made to have no storyline? They would have to get super high scores in everything else because they get a 0 on story?

Not all online games need storylines...

if one is mentioned, then one will be reviewed. If one is not included, then it will be substituted.

Torankusu · #17 08-31-2002, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFrozenFiend

Also, seeing as the rules have changed, shouldnt current servers be tested to see if they meet the standards? I doubt 75% of them will.

The problem is having them removed.

weirdpikachu2 · #18 08-31-2002, 10:48 PM

odd... i recall hearing that if they dont have a storyline, they get an auto 7.5 or 7 score...

Torankusu · #19 08-31-2002, 11:27 PM

About the "fun factor."
That's all based on opinion (what's fun, and what isn't.) It would be too hard to include that.

The Storyline is usually what hooks players into regular games, aswell as gameplay (graal's is set, it seems), so why shouldn't the storyline hook players into this playerworld?

_0AfTeRsHoCk0_ · #20 08-31-2002, 11:32 PM

You all make it sound like it's the end of the world. Just because you all want a server to come online right away doesn't mean that I'm going to automatically pass the server. I'm not going to substitute quality for the will of the people. Fine, suppose I scrapped the website thing, it still didn't pass. I'd gladly tell you why I thought the quests weren't that fantastic (even though there was a lot of them) if the server affiliates don't mind telling you all.

Onto storyline. The rule if it automatically has a storyline it gets 7 or 7.5 is absolutely insane. Suppose I put one level where it says "omg you are the ssj hero of the day go kick soem asz$#@" so I get a 7, or a 7.5? Some servers, especially this one, do not need a storyline. I found hardly anything on the server that was tied in with it, so why confuse people and waste levels using it?

Half of you think that because I failed the server it's the end of the world and it'll never get up. The quest errors were minor. I just didn't find that slashing the baddies, then slashing the baddies, then slashing them again was what people would enjoy. Make no mistake, having a few slash the baddies is okay, but that's really the majority of the quests, and there need to be a few changes. I bet that they could fix everything within a week or two, and resubmit and get back to this point very soon, but of course everyone has to ***** and whine about it.

This is what a PW job is, not playing favourites, it's about quality control and doing your damned job. Besides, hypothetically if I did pass it, by the time it passed Nem, and sits in Stefan's "in" pile for a few months, then the time between now and the remake of it will be quite minimal.

Torankusu · #21 09-01-2002, 12:11 AM

About storylines!-----

--Guidelines--

Storyline - We rate this category more on consistancy of the storyline. If you introduce a storyline at the start, keep up with it. Have the quests tie in with it, etc. I've reviewed some PWs that introduce a great storyline at first, but you never hear about it again. If you do not have a storyline, you get an automatic 7.5 in this category.

This simply says that if a storyline is included, and followed consistently, then it will be judged based on the points system.
However, if they choose NOT to have a storyline (I really don't recommend this. I'll explain why later.) they will automatically be given the 7.5. However, that doesn't usually guarantee that the playerworld will pass. I, myself, will probably judge the quests harder for a real purpose of having to do them.

Why I recommend Storylines.
Well, first off, storylines usually give a purpose to playing the playerworld and doing things like quests. If you just have a playerworld thrown together with random quests, in the end it is very likely it will turn into a pk only server. Storylines can also often bring in fun, and room for additional development (future quests, etc.)

Jinx · #22 09-01-2002, 05:36 AM

Ah, Toran and Aftershock beat me to it.

Since about a 7.5 average is required in each category to get the required number of points to pass, if a storyline is not included, it will get an automatic 7.5, therefor not overly hurting or helping the score.

Really though, what's the point of us all posting up things like this if you all dont read them, and you critisize us in later posts?

-Jinx

haunter · #23 09-01-2002, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Torankusu
About the "fun factor."
That's all based on opinion (what's fun, and what isn't.) It would be too hard to include that.

Levels is based on opinion as well, it depends on what style you like.

Torankusu · #24 09-01-2002, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by haunter

Levels is based on opinion as well, it depends on what style you like.

I thought this would arise, which is why I am now prepared to answer it so easily.

There's a set level standard. Levels from 2 years ago would not pass, however, if it were something that didn't look half bad and 75% predefined, or tons of tile errors, it wouldn't be accepted.

Nile38 · #25 09-01-2002, 10:17 AM

I make websites for a living, and if you guys want me to make you a layout look in my profile for my aim sn.

freddyfox · #26 09-01-2002, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
Why is "Storyline" even a section in the review? What if the server is purposely made to have no storyline? They would have to get super high scores in everything else because they get a 0 on story?

Storyline adds depth to the world, and give you a clue as to what the heck is going on. If I suddenly stumble upon a demon lair and find a key that says "This must be one of the shrine keys!" I'm going to have no idea what the crap I'm supposed to do with a "shrine key."

It just makes the playing experience more pleasant.

TheFrozenFiend · #27 09-01-2002, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Torankusu
About the "fun factor."
That's all based on opinion (what's fun, and what isn't.) It would be too hard to include that.

Everything you say is an opinion.
Whatever score you give to the other parts is your opinion.
If it should pass or not is your opinion. This can be seen as it has passed before. So if it isnt opinion then each of the 3 reviews should have EXACTLY the same scores. This is not the case.
Its like any games review. They get different scores based on the reviewers opinion.
Check Halo: Some places gave it 10/10, 5/5, 100% or whatever. Some only gave it around 9-9.5. I wouldnt give it more than an 8. Some people would give it less.
A review IS simply an opinion.

thrashsoul · #28 09-01-2002, 10:25 PM

I could care less how good the scripts,levels,npces are,
but if its fun to play,that's all i care about.

RavenTelvecho · #29 09-01-2002, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nile38
I make websites for a living, and if you guys want me to make you a layout look in my profile for my aim sn.

drew gave me one of his old designs im working on it

Torankusu · #30 09-01-2002, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TheFrozenFiend

Everything you say is an opinion.
Whatever score you give to the other parts is your opinion.
If it should pass or not is your opinion. This can be seen as it has passed before. So if it isnt opinion then each of the 3 reviews should have EXACTLY the same scores. This is not the case.
Its like any games review. They get different scores based on the reviewers opinion.
Check Halo: Some places gave it 10/10, 5/5, 100% or whatever. Some only gave it around 9-9.5. I wouldnt give it more than an 8. Some people would give it less.
A review IS simply an opinion.

SET STANDARDS.

johndenver04 · #31 09-01-2002, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Torankusu
if one is mentioned, then one will be reviewed. If one is not included, then it will be substituted.

I was told that i MUST have a storyline to even submit it. Psyker told me that a while ago so thats why i included one. Because i was told it was a requirment - !BoOj

johndenver04 · #32 09-01-2002, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Torankusu

This simply says that if a storyline is included, and followed consistently, then it will be judged based on the points system.
However, if they choose NOT to have a storyline (I really don't recommend this. I'll explain why later.) they will automatically be given the 7.5. However, that doesn't usually guarantee that the playerworld will pass. I, myself, will probably judge the quests harder for a real purpose of having to do them.

So if i just scrap the storyline will i be given a 7.5 allowing me to pass? I also beleive that the quest section of the review was a little unfair. Torankusu and Jinx both thought I had rather creative quests. Yes you maybe correct with the hack and slash comment, but only 2 quests are really like that. One is the ice quest. Which will eventually be changed. I also planned that in the future i would hopefully tie the storyline into all the quests. -!BoOj

Torankusu · #33 09-02-2002, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johndenver04

So if i just scrap the storyline will i be given a 7.5 allowing me to pass? I also beleive that the quest section of the review was a little unfair. Torankusu and Jinx both thought I had rather creative quests. Yes you maybe correct with the hack and slash comment, but only 2 quests are really like that. One is the ice quest. Which will eventually be changed. I also planned that in the future i would hopefully tie the storyline into all the quests. -!BoOj

read the rest. Storylines are very recommended simply because they give a purpose to play, and some hints as to what they are supposed to do. Although I did hints as to what you were supposed to quest for, storylines are one of the materials that hooks players and wants them to continue playing.

johndenver04 · #34 09-02-2002, 12:38 AM

Well what i was thinking was, i could drop the storyline for right now. When we go up or get our private server or whatever happens then i could re add it and tie it in with all of the quests.

Max-imus · #35 09-02-2002, 03:18 AM

In my opinion, the storyline section of the review needs to be either removed, or have the no storyline rule changed... it makes no sense at all that a playerworld with a storyline that scores a 6.5 or so should receive a score less than a playerworld that has no storyline... you should commend them for trying to establish a storyline, not punish them because it is not good enough. The rule does not even make sense, and if it is not going to be changed, then just get rid of the storyline part altogether because it is just plain stupid.

Torankusu · #36 09-02-2002, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Max-imus
In my opinion, the storyline section of the review needs to be either removed, or have the no storyline rule changed... it makes no sense at all that a playerworld with a storyline that scores a 6.5 or so should receive a score less than a playerworld that has no storyline... you should commend them for trying to establish a storyline, not punish them because it is not good enough. The rule does not even make sense, and if it is not going to be changed, then just get rid of the storyline part altogether because it is just plain stupid.

I see what you're saying and I'm trying to think of something to replace it if they choose to have no storyline.

Milkdude99 · #37 09-02-2002, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by konidias
Why is "Storyline" even a section in the review? What if the server is purposely made to have no storyline? They would have to get super high scores in everything else because they get a 0 on story?

Not all online games need storylines...

It was my understanding that a PW does not have to have a "storyline" BUT if it submits a PW with one then it must be consistent thoughout the server.Npulse has never really had a storyline and will continue this way, we have none and do not want one, the storyline if you will is entertainment and not a certain theme thoughout... only to entertain the players..

Jinx · #38 09-02-2002, 07:23 AM

I agree, the Storyline rule should be changed a little.

I personally rate more on consistancy than how much I like it. Some servers I've seen introduce a nice storyline, but then you never hear about it again.

If a server introduces a storyline in the beggining, and then somehow relates their quests to the storyline, and tie in other things with it, it will get a good score.

-Jinx

Max-imus · #39 09-02-2002, 07:48 AM

Well, it is not possible to establish a storyline that will always be there... my reasoning is that once the player has done all the quests and everything that has to do with the storyline, will he have beaten the game and completed the storyline? No, because graal is not a typical video game that has closure, but it goes on forever. So you can start off with a great storyline, but sooner or later it will become "extinct", resulting in the end of the consistant storyline... So in that case, which is all cases, would they lose points for that? They shouldn't, because there is no way to avoid it... The storyline rule in no way affects me or anyone that I am friends with, nor am I criticizing how anyone does their job, I am just saying what I see wrong with it.

TheFrozenFiend · #40 09-02-2002, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Torankusu
SET STANDARDS.

But its your opinion if it reaches these standards or not.