Should this be made a requirement?

[konidias]

With more and more cool things being possible with lighting, and now with transparency (soon), the question comes up...

Should there be playerworlds that REQUIRE lighting effects to be enabled? The reason I ask this, is because I was considering planning this for my playerworld. With players being able to disable lighting effects, it ruins many features. For example, dark caverns and nighttime is completely pointless when the player can turn off the lighting. What is the point in having a torch when the level is not dark?

Also, things like special spell effects, transparent things such as shadows, etc, will not show up, causing double the graphics/scripting to accomodate both types of situations.

What I mean by require, is for the playerworld to check if the player has lighting enabled, whenever they are playing the playerworld. Thus, if the player is not using lights, they will be sent to a level instructing them to use lighting, and how to set it, and what computer requirements you need and stuff.

What do you guys think?

[Aruchinjiru]

Good ideas and all but you need to take into account that probably half the people that play graal don't have Video cards that support lights so all they would see is light images and crap and wouldn't see the real effects of your lighting. I think you should, leave it as a option.

[PurgatoryIE]

I think you should leave it as an option also. This POS computer can only pick up lighting effects once i Maximize my screen, then restore it back to it's original window states. Then it continues to lag more and more. Lighting effects are the worst lag causers on graal.

[Minoc]

no

[Sir_Gareth]

No, because some people realy lag with ligh effects, when I turn them on I cant move, and if that happened to me on a playeworld that would make me unable to play that playerworld so no.

[Thak2]

My computer can't have lighting effects enabled, I lack the video card for it.

You could just check if light effects aren't enabled, and if not, not let them play your playerworld.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Thak2
My computer can't have lighting effects enabled, I lack the video card for it.

You could just check if light effects aren't enabled, and if not, not let them play your playerworld.

That wouldnt be fair...........also, enabling lighting effects I have heard freezes some peoples computers...it isnt fair to make people enable it unless stefan makes it more compatible to all cards

[konidias]

Um that's the entire reason I made the poll, to get everyone's opinion on the matter. The whole point is that I know it isn't "fair" to these people that have bad computers, but it isn't "fair" to the people with good computers that have to put up with not having cool features because of the old computer users.

Like I said, for example, you have night in your game. The whole point of night, is to allow players to sneak around and attack travelers along paths and stuff, and you would need lanterns to light the area so you could see anyone coming. However, if a player could simply turn of lighting, it would completely ruin the point of the entire concept.

Tons of games out today require users to have directx and a decent computer. You don't see other big online games needing to allow players the ability to disable all the lighting effects. I think this is Graals weaknesss in a way. Nearly any computer made within the last... 6 years, could probably run lighting effects fine. It's the simple fact that most people don't know what the heck they are doing, and don't know how to install directx, or upgrade their video card drivers.

[Minoc]

Originally posted by konidias
Um that's the entire reason I made the poll, to get everyone's opinion on the matter. The whole point is that I know it isn't "fair" to these people that have bad computers, but it isn't "fair" to the people with good computers that have to put up with not having cool features because of the old computer users.

Like I said, for example, you have night in your game. The whole point of night, is to allow players to sneak around and attack travelers along paths and stuff, and you would need lanterns to light the area so you could see anyone coming. However, if a player could simply turn of lighting, it would completely ruin the point of the entire concept.

Tons of games out today require users to have directx and a decent computer. You don't see other big online games needing to allow players the ability to disable all the lighting effects. I think this is Graals weaknesss in a way. Nearly any computer made within the last... 6 years, could probably run lighting effects fine. It's the simple fact that most people don't know what the heck they are doing, and don't know how to install directx, or upgrade their video card drivers.

The problem is that alot of games (like Neverwinter Nights, Ultima Online, Warcraft III, Blood Omen 2) works faster then Graal with lightning effects \=

[Nemesis]

Thats a truly toss up question to ask...

Fact of the matter is you look at it from a perspective. Not everyone has the computers to just run everything on high res and not lag...Then you have others who struggle to use what they have now...

Basically from a design aspect, you go forth...add what you add...Those who have the luxary, will be able to see what you have, all the benefits of the lighting, and everything else the server has to offer.

Those who can't apply the lighting effects, will see nothing special, but if you can captivate those who have the feature on, then you've done your job and all that you could ask of yourself and your server...

Just basically those who have the ability will enjoy, those who don't will simply just see it as "another server"...Sad but thats the way it works...Graal has some weird lag, it's just crazy to see such a small game have so much more lag than a graphical intensive game that when you run at 1600 x 1200 it doesn't lag, yet you play graal and it lags...Odd no?

Well thats my 2 cents...prolly means nothing but hey, I said it anyways

[Graal518]

Originally posted by Nemesis
Thats a truly toss up question to ask...

Fact of the matter is you look at it from a perspective. Not everyone has the computers to just run everything on high res and not lag...Then you have others who struggle to use what they have now...

Basically from a design aspect, you go forth...add what you add...Those who have the luxary, will be able to see what you have, all the benefits of the lighting, and everything else the server has to offer.

Those who can't apply the lighting effects, will see nothing special, but if you can captivate those who have the feature on, then you've done your job and all that you could ask of yourself and your server...

Just basically those who have the ability will enjoy, those who don't will simply just see it as "another server"...Sad but thats the way it works...Graal has some weird lag, it's just crazy to see such a small game have so much more lag than a graphical intensive game that when you run at 1600 x 1200 it doesn't lag, yet you play graal and it lags...Odd no?

Well thats my 2 cents...prolly means nothing but hey, I said it anyways

[MeoMyo]

Razor: yeah nem has a good point its there loss if they cant see it or they don't choose to see it but i also understand what koni is trying to say both valid points hard to say

[konidias]

Yes Nemesis, while that is all good and true, you're forgetting the gameplay aspect. If users can turn off darkness at night and in caves, what is the purpose of even making it?

Then the lightenabled users have to suffer because the users that turn off lighteffects can easily see in the dark and attack you when it's pitch black and in order for you to defend you have to turn your lighting effects off too.

[Jinx]

Originally posted by Nemesis
Well thats my 2 cents...prolly means nothing but hey, I said it anyways

Your the PW Admin, you should give your two cents on these types of things.

-Jinx

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

No. If this became mainstream it would kill graal. My computer runs slow as ever when lights are on. I would quit if this happened.

What they should do is rethink backpals, for the cave thing. Only don't have the backpals stay on the whole time. It's easy, just have a if(playerleaves) command.

[Falcor]

Then the lightenabled users have to suffer because the users that turn off lighteffects can easily see in the dark and attack you when it's pitch black and in order for you to defend you have to turn your lighting effects off too.

Monitors have a brightness knob on them. You can acually use that to let you see better in the dark. heheh.

[PurgatoryIE]

And Falados deals Koni a nut shot!

No, seriously now, lighting effects, who cares. If you asked every graal player if they like day-night systems, 3/4 or more of them will say no. At least on Babylon, you can say daynight off and you don't have to deal with the lighting effects therefore bringing you less lag. People know the drawbacks in making lighting effect npc's, but they make it so that some people can be satisfied and so that they can feel a sense of self-satisfaction.

I understand you don't like the fact that they have "disable lighting effects" feature, but if they're going to take that out, they might as well take away the sound settings, the "don't connect levels" feature, and the change control keys. The game wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for players, therefore they have to build the game so everyone who plays it can enjoy it, not a select few who just want to nag because their server uses lighting effects and they want everyone to see.

Edit: Oh.. and if they took away all the features i mentioned, then i wouldn't be able to play graal. I don't even meet the requirements now to play graal... *****. 200 mhz and a 6 mb gfx card suck. The only reason i can play graal is because i have the option of disabling those features. Don't automatically think that everyone has a good computer, because the only people who DO have good computers are those who's parents are fairly wealthy and can buy them computers for their birthdays.

[Frolic_RC2]

Originally posted by konidias
With more and more cool things being possible with lighting, and now with transparency (soon), the question comes up...

Should there be playerworlds that REQUIRE lighting effects to be enabled? The reason I ask this, is because I was considering planning this for my playerworld. With players being able to disable lighting effects, it ruins many features. For example, dark caverns and nighttime is completely pointless when the player can turn off the lighting. What is the point in having a torch when the level is not dark?

Also, things like special spell effects, transparent things such as shadows, etc, will not show up, causing double the graphics/scripting to accomodate both types of situations.

What I mean by require, is for the playerworld to check if the player has lighting enabled, whenever they are playing the playerworld. Thus, if the player is not using lights, they will be sent to a level instructing them to use lighting, and how to set it, and what computer requirements you need and stuff.

What do you guys think?

Haha, wow, this is one of those features I never tell anyone. I have planned to use that for the longest time...

Not having lights would be like cheating on Murasamune, so for that reason whenever you have light effects disabled, your character freezes and a message comes up saying "Please enable light effects. If enable, please download the latest drivers if using a 3D compatible video card. If not using 3D video card, you character will remain frozen until system is compatible".

Hehe pretty fancy stuff...in the beginning it will detect if light effects are on or not, it they are not you won't be allowed to continue.

[DragonX2]

I just zoom in to turn off lighting, like in the mines on 2k2 it's way too dark so I press Alt + 8 to zoom in, it becomes a bit bigger but then it's clear as day

[feivel]

I say Yes!
If you cant run it then too bad...
you dont have a right to play on his server,
those who are able to are privileged and those who arent able to are not priveleged enough to play it, but we arent going to take away some peoples priveleges to accomodate others, it shouldnt be communism. We shouldnt make some people "suffer" or lose out just because there are some people who are unable to enjoy the luxury. And if you are going to quit graal because one server doesnt accomodate your computer you have a real problem,
because if koni didnt make the server at all would you quit graal?
I doubt it. So now your saying your going to quit because you wont be able to play it... that means you are not quitting sheerly because you cant play on server, you are quittingf out of spite you are quitting because they made it so you couldnt play the server, your quitting because you cant play and other people can... so go uhhhh climb a tree and uh spell baboon.

[feivel]

Oh BTW my family isnt wealthy at all.
I have two parents (like most people) a mom and a dad...
and a sister, and myself, and we share a two bedroom two bathroom apartment. I have never in my whol life lived in a house (except for when i stay at my grandmas) or a apartment larger then two bedrooms two bath... but I do have a 40 gig hardrive, pentium 4, 256 RAM, 1.5 gigahertz computer with a cd/dvd player as well as a burner. so not only wealthy people have good computers.

[VampiricTutorNewHD]

After about the first sentence in each of your posts I grew too confused with the grammatical errors to make any sense of it, so I just gave up.

Anyhow, day/night is a severe pain. It lags me terribly, which I don't find all that pretty.

Graal will lose customers rather than gain customers as a result of this. It doesn't make the game any more attractive, rather limits the abilities of the existing players(who are in turn handing over their money to play a game. It is guaranteed that accounts that are bought are enabled to play ALL servers( save the non-gold upgraded accounts) not the few that allow lighting effects to be disabled).

[Com013]

My PC is 5 years old and doesn't allow the nice DirectX stuff.
So of course you shouldn't ban everybody with a bad card from your server.
On Classic there is a similiar problem with day/night.
You say, the night is supposed to make it harder to see and so on, so the players without lightFX are cheating? Easy, let them carry a lamp like on Classic and everyone with lightFX on can see them very clearly.

[PurgatoryIE]

Originally posted by feivel
I say Yes!
If you cant run it then too bad...
you dont have a right to play on his server,
those who are able to are privileged and those who arent able to are not priveleged enough to play it, but we arent going to take away some peoples priveleges to accomodate others, it shouldnt be communism. We shouldnt make some people "suffer" or lose out just because there are some people who are unable to enjoy the luxury. And if you are going to quit graal because one server doesnt accomodate your computer you have a real problem,
because if koni didnt make the server at all would you quit graal?
I doubt it. So now your saying your going to quit because you wont be able to play it... that means you are not quitting sheerly because you cant play on server, you are quittingf out of spite you are quitting because they made it so you couldnt play the server, your quitting because you cant play and other people can... so go uhhhh climb a tree and uh spell baboon.

Whoever said i was GOING to quit graal. You saying i don't have the RIGHT to play graal because i don't meet the requirements? No, YOU don't have a right to bring your "communist" self on these boards, and state things you know nothing about. Communism means you control every aspect of the government (in this case, a game) and run everyone's lives (give them a job according to what they can do). Now if your saying we should HAVE to have lighting effects enabled, then your a communist. Lighting effects is not a luxury, it's an addition. So your saying if I don't have wavs on, i shouldn't play graal? So your saying if I choose to have lighting effects disabled because they lag more than Diablo 2 (which i don't meet the requirements either, but I still play without lag, can't say the same about graal), then I have no right to be playing graal? No no buddy. Anyone who has purchases an account has the right to play graal. A server cannot FORCE anything having to do with graal itself on anyone. YOu cannot FORCE someone to turn on their lighting effects just because your arrogant. The people who turn on lighting effects? *gives a big thumbs up to you* GOOD FOR YOU! I bet you feel special! Who cares if the whole point of having lighting effects on is to have an actual role-playish system or use it for PK servers so you can sneak up on people, what I'm saying is, is that if we don't want lighting effects on, thats FINE! You can't "force" us to do anything. Also, how the hell are you going to know if we have lighting effects on or not? Base it on the fact that we actually move faster than the people who are higher than the minimum requirements people who DO use lighting effects? No one LIKES lighting effects, it's just a snazzy addition to a server. No one actually TURNS on lighting effects unless it has to do with an NPC. I don't really mind the Day/Night system, because i play on babylon and i don't lag with that. Actual LIGHTS are the lag causers here. People who don't know how to script making big ass scripts for lights, then placing about 20 of the same npc on a level. Thats lag, and thats why people don't like lighting effects.

[PurgatoryIE]

Originally posted by feivel
Oh BTW my family isnt wealthy at all.
I have two parents (like most people) a mom and a dad...
and a sister, and myself, and we share a two bedroom two bathroom apartment. I have never in my whol life lived in a house (except for when i stay at my grandmas) or a apartment larger then two bedrooms two bath... but I do have a 40 gig hardrive, pentium 4, 256 RAM, 1.5 gigahertz computer with a cd/dvd player as well as a burner. so not only wealthy people have good computers.

Living in an apartment doesn't necessarily mean your poor. If you live in new york, you have to pull in a ton of money just to stay in one of those apartments, 2500 a month for one place i've heard of. Plus, who said it had to be YOUR direct family, could have gotten it for christmas from your grandparents.

[Minoc]

DeathChill:
Riiiiiiight......

Lets penalize people because they don't have as much money as me!$^(@
GREAT PLAN.

[Milkdude99]

All I will say is " The poll speaks for itself on this topic"

[haunter]

Originally posted by Falcor


Monitors have a brightness knob on them. You can acually use that to let you see better in the dark. heheh.

And If you zoom in once (alt+8 and alt+9) light effects go bye bye.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by haunter


And If you zoom in once (alt+8 and alt+9) light effects go bye bye.

Not if you have an NPC that checks at login if lights are enabled or not

I think this is something I can agree on...especially with my own plans and what I'm doing, anyone that wants to play on my PW will at least need to have a processor that is 500mhz or better and a graphics card that is more than 16mb.

To be honest, now is never a better time to upgrade that old piece of junk or just build/buy a new one. If you're going to buy a pre-manufactured PC, then be prepared for high prices. If you build your own or have a knowledgeable friend build it for you, you'll be able to scrape off an extra $100-$200...especially if you skip getting a new monitor. Only purchase a monitor if you really really need it.

My new computer I've found was actually under $700, yet it is on par and even a little more than what you'll find in places like BestBuy or Circuit City. The best place for getting parts for a custom computer is PriceWatch.com.

You'll find a good many deals there, just pay attention to what you are getting. House Brands and Generics are ok...my 512 DDR RAM module is one of those two...its not bad for the price and works fine, but if you've got the money, go for the name brands since they will perform better.

The best way to probably getting a new PC, especially a custom one, is to of course, do up a list of exactly what you want such as the processor, motherboard, RAM, video card, etc. and search for the best price. Also try to look for good deals such as reduced shipping for buying an extra item that you will need, reduced price on the main item or extended warranties...always make sure the parts you get are backed by at least a 1 year warranty or at the very least, a 90-day one.

</commercial>

[G_yoshi]

Konidias...perhaps you should just include in your control-NPC something like this:

NPC Code:

---

if (actionplayeronline){

  with (getplayer(#a)) {

    if (!lighteffectsenabled) {

      say2

Minimum Requirements for playing#b

on Doragon Koden:#b

#b

500mhz+ Processor#b

8mb+ Video Card#b

128mb+ RAM#b

Enable Lighting Effects to turn#b

this logon message off.#b

    }

  }

}

---

I am doing that for now so that I can warn players of what is to come Once my project is complete or something else concerning it happens, I'll add in a line that will warp the player to classic graal if they do not have lighteffects enabled.

[DragonX2]

Alt + 8 makes it just zoom in, it still has light effects enabled but it just hides them basically...I do that if it's to dark, I still have light effects enabled I just bypass it by zooming in

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by DragonX2
Alt + 8 makes it just zoom in, it still has light effects enabled but it just hides them basically...I do that if it's to dark, I still have light effects enabled I just bypass it by zooming in

Personally, I don't even know why Stefan has such a dumb thing coded into Graal.exe I suppose its nice, but he needs to make lighting effects extend to that as well.

[Judge_Spunky]

Some people can't run with lighting effects. I couldn't until I got my GeForce.

I don't think backpals were considered lighting effects, but they are supposed to cause tremendous lag when put online (with NPC servers?).

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by Judge_Spunky
Some people can't run with lighting effects. I couldn't until I got my GeForce.

I don't think backpals were considered lighting effects, but they are supposed to cause tremendous lag when put online (with NPC servers?).

Backpals are a scourge and need to be removed.

[konidias]

Stefan is making script commands for disabling all the default key settings, such as R for rating, zoom keys, hiding chat text, M for map, etc.


The topic isn't "should graal force players to get better computers to play graal" it's "should some playerworlds have certain requirements"

There is nothing in the agreement stating that the service you're paying for will be void if you're computer can't meet the requirements. You pay to ACCESS the servers. That is all you are paying for. You are not paying to play the servers, you're paying to access them.

You make it sound like people with bad computers don't deserve to play. Well if that's the case, we better file lawsuits on every company that has produced a pc game with requirements, as they are being unfair to the people using 75 mhz processors with an etch a sketch for a monitor.

[Falcor]

Originally posted by konidias
Stefan is making script commands for disabling all the default key settings, such as R for rating, zoom keys, hiding chat text, M for map, etc.

Very much needed by me <3

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by konidias
Stefan is making script commands for disabling all the default key settings, such as R for rating, zoom keys, hiding chat text, M for map, etc.


The topic isn't "should graal force players to get better computers to play graal" it's "should some playerworlds have certain requirements"

There is nothing in the agreement stating that the service you're paying for will be void if you're computer can't meet the requirements. You pay to ACCESS the servers. That is all you are paying for. You are not paying to play the servers, you're paying to access them.

You make it sound like people with bad computers don't deserve to play. Well if that's the case, we better file lawsuits on every company that has produced a pc game with requirements, as they are being unfair to the people using 75 mhz processors with an etch a sketch for a monitor.

Stefan has already added in the ability to disable pausing and disable mapview.

[Com013]

Originally posted by Minoc
DeathChill:
Riiiiiiight......

Lets penalize people because they don't have as much money as me!$^(@
GREAT PLAN.

Exactly...they'd be banning everybody without lightFX from their servers...and not being able to use lightFX is as worse as hacking?
There are still many persons playing Graal who can't use lightFX either because their gfx card doesn't support them or because they are too slow when using them.
So you are starting two playerworlds which ban everybody without lightFX...fine. just 2 of 20 servers. But then the next servers will do so...and so on, until those without lightFX can only play on Classic.
Nice...a higher player count for classic.
And I'd never pay for games which don't run on my PC.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Com013

Exactly...they'd be banning everybody without lightFX from their servers...and not being able to use lightFX is as worse as hacking?
There are still many persons playing Graal who can't use lightFX either because their gfx card doesn't support them or because they are too slow when using them.
So you are starting two playerworlds which ban everybody without lightFX...fine. just 2 of 20 servers. But then the next servers will do so...and so on, until those without lightFX can only play on Classic.
Nice...a higher player count for classic.
And I'd never pay for games which don't run on my PC.

Play Npulse then because we will NOT do this and make it impossible for all to play, if others want too , well that is their affair and they can do what they will , but as for Npulse , true we may not have all the "cool things" but we will find other ways to achieve "cool things" without excluding some players...

[screen_name]

I can see where you are coming from koni, but many people, such as myself, do not have video card's that will support light effects.

I would hate to not be able to play a playerworld because of this.