Stolen graphics

[Kamaeru]

Basically every server on Graal sports a lot of stolen graphics and content from Graal2001. I don't mean to be anal about it but it was a lot more special when it was created as original content for a specific project. Is there any way to get other servers to stop using original content designed specifically for Graal2001? I mean I know we can never get them to stop using hats but I was hoping servers using Graal2001 hats could officially make their own and stop using ours. Is that not reasonable? A lot of the sprite sheets literally say "created for Graal2001" right on them in detailed custom pixel art signatures by the creators.

[kia345]

this far after the fact?

yeah

[ffcmike]

Mainfiles were stolen from Classic .

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by kia345

this far after the fact?

yeah

It's really deeper than you're even thinking. Technically the current pics1.png that has been used for like 15 years was drawn by Graal2001 developers for Graal2001. So there would have to be some kind of lines drawn, if every stolen idea from Graal2001 was patent protected other servers wouldn't even have events or hats or anything cool at all.

In fact this forum literally was the Graal2001 forum initially, at forums.graal2001.com.

And how about npc-server? Eh?

I don't think every server should surrender their NPC server but it is kind of ridiculous to be sporting our graphics, and the fact they've been doing it for almost 2 decades doesn't really change that. I'm just saying you'd think they could at least make their own hat graphics.

[fowlplay4]

looks like your server is named Bomy Island to me, so you're stealing them too

maybe you should stop using them first

[Crono]

g2k1 died like 14 years ago and its gfx were distributed. you cant just revive a server and demand all of it back, esp when the gfx dont actually belong to BI.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Crono

g2k1 died like 14 years ago and its gfx were distributed. you cant just revive a server and demand all of it back, esp when the gfx dont actually belong to BI.

Did you read my comment? I don't think you did my man.

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

I'm just saying you'd think they could at least make their own hat graphics.

And then there's this guy who I think knows he's grabbing straws:

looks like your server is named Bomy Island to me, so you're stealing them too
maybe you should stop using them first

First of all to address the name, Mystic Dragon didn't give me an option. Both I and Skyld decided upon not using that name, but MD was really hasty to put the server on the dev list and did not give me an option. He also hasn't been around at all for months. To absolve your confusion, the server I am working on now which is titled Bomy Island on the dev list is the EXACT same server that we played in 2001. It's Graal2001.

Furthermore I actually am fully willing to make new graphics to replace the old ones (have been working on this since day 1), because I'm not so lazy I have to steal "gfx that were distributed 14 years ago" (that's not even true, that never happened).

So yeah. Nice try guys, it was funny but if you're being serious then you will only get to argue with me and lose. Nobody steals Zodiac's graphics, probably because they aren't very good.

I just think it's ironic that I'm over here remaking the Graal2001 hats so they can be original Graal2001 content again, while other servers sport the graphics that were made for this server without putting any work in. If it were level designs, or a script it wouldn't be acceptable, though I guess graphics and ganis are fair game? But apparently I'm the bad guy for pointing it out! Thanks!

[sandin]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Basically every server on Graal sports a lot of stolen graphics and content from Graal2001. I don't mean to be anal about it but it was a lot more special when it was created as original content for a specific project. Is there any way to get other servers to stop using original content designed specifically for Graal2001? I mean I know we can never get them to stop using hats but I was hoping servers using Graal2001 hats could officially make their own and stop using ours. Is that not reasonable? A lot of the sprite sheets literally say "created for Graal2001" right on them in detailed custom pixel art signatures by the creators.

there should be a way, but since the lack of support is big, I doubt they would do something.

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

I just think it's ironic that I'm over here remaking the Graal2001 hats so they can be original Graal2001 content again, while other servers sport the graphics that were made for this server without putting any work in. If it were level designs, or a script it wouldn't be acceptable, though I guess graphics and ganis are fair game? But apparently I'm the bad guy for pointing it out! Thanks!

Totally agree with you.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Did you read my comment? I don't think you did my man.

I was hoping servers using Graal2001 hats could officially make their own and stop using ours

they stopped belonging to g2k1 a while back bruh. g2k1 is gone anyway, right?

[PlanetOscar]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

First of all to address the name, Mystic Dragon didn't give me an option. Both I and Skyld decided upon not using that name, but MD was really hasty to put the server on the dev list and did not give me an option. He also hasn't been around at all for months. To absolve your confusion, the server I am working on now which is titled Bomy Island on the dev list is the EXACT same server that we played in 2001. It's Graal2001.

Alright, so you're not Bomy Island you're actually Graal2k1?

So instead of stealing graphics you're stealing names using a name you're not?

but I guess that's fair game these days, sorry for pointing it out!

[xXziroXx]

I mean, G2K1 was gone for years, fair to say that hats of all things became fair game by then. I'm talking waaay before konidias & contiga tried reviving the project.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by PlanetOscar

Alright, so you're not Bomy Island you're actually Graal2k1?

So instead of stealing graphics you're stealing names using a name you're not?

but I guess that's fair game these days, sorry for pointing it out!

That doesn't even make sense. Even if it did, Bomy Island and Graal2001 are one thing, it's just two different names it's had. It's also been called Bomy Moon and Bomy Lands... it's all Graal2001. I'm guessing you didn't know that or are trying to poke fun at me, but 2 different names of the same server is different than every server on Graal using 2k1's content. There's no way I can stop them, just asking nicely if they could make their own graphics seems like the best way to go. If you look at kingdoms, they have many shared concepts like the Kingdoms, kart racing, and Metris minigame from Graal2001 but they also made their own sprites and graphics for those.

If you think I wasn't expecting whiny people to come in my thread and make strawman cases against me you're way off. I knew you guys would treat me like the bad guy, that's fine.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

I mean, G2K1 was gone for years, fair to say that hats of all things became fair game by then. I'm talking waaay before konidias & contiga tried reviving the project.

I was there working on Graal2001 until 2006 and after that I also worked with konidias and contiga. When other servers started using our graphics we were never happy about it. We tried getting global admins or stefan to help us back then but we had the same problem that managers of servers have today where they simply wouldn't help. None of this is new, and if the amount of time that has gone by while Graal2001's content has been abused by other projects holds any relevance, it stands as further testament to my case, rather than supporting the argument of naysayers of my case.

[BlueMelon]

Stolen graphics has been happening on all servers since forever, with no real way to enforce it, I don't think this thread is going anywhere.

[PlanetOscar]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

That doesn't even make sense. Even if it did, Bomy Island and Graal2001 are one thing, it's just two different names it's had. It's also been called Bomy Moon and Bomy Lands... it's all Graal2001. I'm guessing you didn't know that or are trying to poke fun at me, but 2 different names of the same server is different than every server on Graal using 2k1's content. There's no way I can stop them, just asking nicely if they could make their own graphics seems like the best way to go. If you look at kingdoms, they have many shared concepts like the Kingdoms, kart racing, and Metris minigame from Graal2001 but they also made their own sprites and graphics for those.

If you think I wasn't expecting whiny people to come in my thread and make strawman cases against me you're way off. I knew you guys would treat me like the bad guy, that's fine.

My comedic approach was to enlighten you on the fact that this thread is going nowhere.

[PlanetOscar]

However, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it considered Graal property once it's been uploaded? and not Graal2k1? So as long as Graal is okay with it, I doubt anything will change good luck tho

[Darklux]

Are you serious or is this this thread a nice parody for christmas? Not that funny tho :O

Some thoughts: G2K1 was once one of the few official server projects and was abandoned shortly after the success of Kingdoms. Let us assume, that everyone should stop using that content. What is the consequence? Should everyone also stop using Classic Heads, Tiles and Sprites? Should people be forbidden to create classic styled playerworlds?

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

It's really deeper than you're even thinking. Technically the current pics1.png that has been used for like 15 years was drawn by Graal2001 developers for Graal2001. So there would have to be some kind of lines drawn, if every stolen idea from Graal2001 was patent protected other servers wouldn't even have events or hats or anything cool at all.

Another good example. Aren't these the tiles currently distributed for "normal" use?
Sorry - G2k1 was no "Player"world back then, but rather official Graal content and has influenced the following Playerworlds in many ways - Graphics, Gameplay and so on.

If you created new content and someone would steal that, I would fully agree with your demand to take that down, but you are talking about content that is ~15 years old? You cannot turn back time - and finally - we are having other problems at the moment. I doubt that your playercount is being limited by mean Playerworlds that greedily steal G2K1 Content....

[Crono]

hey darklux

[maximus_asinus]

IMO the graphics never belonged to Graal2001. They were premium content, to be used by servers that were P2P before the whole thing was mandatory. Once P2P was required the whole thing went public domain so to say. I don't think that is what some of the artists intended when they created the graphics however, maybe they should have the right to dictate their use, or maybe they lost their rights to the images once they were uploaded.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

IMO the graphics never belonged to Graal2001. They were premium content, to be used by servers that were P2P before the whole thing was mandatory. Once P2P was required the whole thing went public domain so to say. I don't think that is what some of the artists intended when they created the graphics however, maybe they should have the right to dictate their use, or maybe they lost their rights to the images once they were uploaded.

ya thats kind of how i see it, but at the end of the day the server died and disappeared for like 10+ years, the whole point of BI was to use new assets.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Crono

the whole point of BI was to use new assets

I get what you're saying, but it's not accurate. You act like there were no shared assets. How about the entire map for starters. Also no one gave koni any sort of permission to reupload the server. koni's assets now belong to Graal2001 (they were also released publicly for use by anyone), not the other way around. It's been the case since around 2010, since you like bringing up the fact that copious amounts of time have gone by (which is irrelevant-- what's the difference between 5 days and 15 years? it's still stolen content).

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Darklux

Are you serious or is this this thread a nice parody for christmas? Not that funny tho :O

Some thoughts: G2K1 was once one of the few official server projects and was abandoned shortly after the success of Kingdoms. Let us assume, that everyone should stop using that content. What is the consequence? Should everyone also stop using Classic Heads, Tiles and Sprites? Should people be forbidden to create classic styled playerworlds?



Another good example. Aren't these the tiles currently distributed for "normal" use?
Sorry - G2k1 was no "Player"world back then, but rather official Graal content and has influenced the following Playerworlds in many ways - Graphics, Gameplay and so on.

If you created new content and someone would steal that, I would fully agree with your demand to take that down, but you are talking about content that is ~15 years old? You cannot turn back time - and finally - we are having other problems at the moment. I doubt that your playercount is being limited by mean Playerworlds that greedily steal G2K1 Content....

People stealing our content for 15 years is testament to my point, not yours. How many times do I have to say this? The longer amount of time the content has been abused doesn't make it any more okay.

Furthermore I guess I will have to say this again for the third time: obviously my goal here is not to ban other servers from using g2k1 content, but I want to make the staff of those servers aware of the fact that it's not original content and ask them to please make their own. I am aware that g2k1's hats were distributed to these servers in a time when they were lacking the talent 2k1 had, but that is no longer the case and in 2016 it's just lazy.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

I don't think that is what some of the artists intended when they created the graphics however, maybe they should have the right to dictate their use, or maybe they lost their rights to the images once they were uploaded.

Exactly. I can't make anyone stop using their graphics but I am only asking them to stop using them out of respect for the history of Graal. But once again, apparently I'm a bad guy and the strawman version of my argument is to be taken seriously.

If you guys look closer I'm literally suggesting an easy way for Graal to adopt higher standards of quality and integrity (without help from the MIA global admin team). It's fun watching the same people whine about it who would benefit.

BTW I have been working on new hats since day 1, and have already made multiple hat shops. I will have at least 15 to begin releasing either weekly or monthly when the server goes hosted. These comprise of new hats (thank Xiaoguard), remade G2K1 original hats, and hats that were made for koni's project and never used. Here's a preview sample, nothing you see here is final:

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

I get what you're saying, but it's not accurate. You act like there were no shared assets. How about the entire map for starters. Also no one gave koni any sort of permission to reupload the server. koni's assets now belong to Graal2001 (they were also released publicly for use by anyone), not the other way around. It's been the case since around 2010, since you like bringing up the fact that copious amounts of time have gone by (which is irrelevant-- what's the difference between 5 days and 15 years? it's still stolen content).

how is it stolen, the owner of the server/creator of the game allowed other servers to use g2k1's assets

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Crono

how is it stolen, the owner of the server/creator of the game allowed other servers to use g2k1's assets

No permission was given by the creator of the content or any manager of the server. Also 2k1 has been treated as a playerworld when it's convenient to fit the narrative, and then treated as a main server when it fits the narrative. Which is it? My argument is rock solid while the naysayers have an elastic argument.