When will Mac get some love? :cry:

PlanetOscar · #1 04-20-2016, 06:23 AM

The community (or just me

) have been waiting for several years for an offline editor for Mac. Construct is barely functioning and it's a long hasty process to get it to work. Gods of Graal, please answer my prayers.

**MysticalDragon** · #2 04-20-2016, 08:25 AM

You worried about mac and there is bearly a offline editor for windows pc. I think they're moving more towards the online editors, which in my personal opinion is great. I haven't usef a offline editor since pix's tile editor.

JesusFreak250 · #3 04-20-2016, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticalDragon

You worried about mac and there is bearly a offlibe editor for windows pc. I think they're moving more towards the online editors, which in my personal opinion is great. I haven't usef a offline editor since pix's tile editor.

Online editors are great but they're only accessible if you have a server or work on one. You're asking people pay to develop the game for you.

**MysticalDragon** · #4 04-20-2016, 09:24 AM

Whats the point in developing in graal anyways if not for graal. If you want to practice leveling, I'am pretty sure there are tons of free editors where you can let your creativity roam free.

JesusFreak250 · #5 04-20-2016, 09:44 AM

I'm not disagreeing with that. I just think Graal could do a better job at encouraging and enabling developers, especially when they are the ones who will profit from it. The official editor doesn't even work with Windows 10 and Mac users have to settle with a third-party one.

ffcmike · #6 04-20-2016, 09:50 AM

There is an offline mode within the V6 client, in theory it could be used for an in-client editor which would enable the usage of GS2 and Clientside NPCs.

BlueMelon · #7 04-20-2016, 01:03 PM

Can't the Testbed server be used for practice level design/development?

JesusFreak250 · #8 04-20-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Can't the Testbed server be used for practice level design/development?

It's been down for a few days now. Plus there's a level limit which makes it pretty difficult when dealing with gmaps.

PlanetOscar · #9 04-20-2016, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffcmike

There is an offline mode within the V6 client, in theory it could be used for an in-client editor which would enable the usage of GS2 and Clientside NPCs.

i only speak english bro

**MysticalDragon** · #10 04-20-2016, 02:45 PM

No idea TestBed was down, will get it back up.

Spiker · #11 04-20-2016, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticalDragon

No idea TestBed was down, will get it back up.

Can I have access?

Tim_Rocks · #12 04-20-2016, 09:51 PM

An offline level editor would be a huge step up for this game. Players interested in developing for Graal shouldn't have to jump through hoops to create content. It would be amazing to get a full set of development tools that allow players to create levels, ganis, and even basic GS2 capabilities offline.

Would it be at all possible to get the source code for the original windows offline editor? An open source tool such as this one would be great for our community.

PlanetOscar · #13 04-21-2016, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

An offline level editor would be a huge step up for this game. Players interested in developing for Graal shouldn't have to jump through hoops to create content. It would be amazing to get a full set of development tools that allow players to create levels, ganis, and even basic GS2 capabilities offline.

Would it be at all possible to get the source code for the original windows offline editor? An open source tool such as this one would be great for our community.

i second this, make it happen

**MysticalDragon** · #14 04-21-2016, 06:13 PM

Well graal decided to use ONLINE tools, since the game is a 100% online game. Why would offline tools make it head in a better direction? In my
Opinion any type of development tools should be put on a super backlog. All the resources should go to improvising the client to be more sturdy. There is already enough "online" tools that have the same features if not more features then the offline editors.

Urahara112 · #15 04-21-2016, 08:44 PM

Lol, Graals current version still has annoying problems like occasional disconnects when crossing through a level "link", as well as a head file randomly opening when the client is running.

Let's not forget the biggest setback of all since Version 6, which was removal of UDP which leaves player smoothness and hit detection not performing optimally (actually performing VERY poorly). This likely has a role in the lack of player versus player gameplay seen in the present day client version.

One other thing is the server location, which appears to favour the east coast, leaving west coast players with much higher ping, rather than running from a more neutral location.

EDIT: My post was slightly off topic, sorry.

callimuc · #16 04-22-2016, 03:55 AM

Offline editors are running way smoother and you aren't that easily distracted. They are simply more development orientated. And online tools have "more features" because they havn't been outdated for years.

Would have loved to create my own project in an updated offline editor and then eventually start it on the online client itself.

Crono · #17 04-22-2016, 06:07 AM

offline editors are essential

ffcmike · #18 04-22-2016, 01:13 PM

If I was a relatively new player interested in trying my hand at development, what would be the process for accessing an online editor?

Now compare that with being able to open an offline editor, which method is more convenient and likely for that interest to be followed up on?

Don't get me wrong, I understand how online editors can be more convenient for existing server staff, but that only applies to a fraction of the potential development pool.

xXziroXx · #19 04-22-2016, 05:52 PM

Online development tools are amazing for experienced developers with access to servers, but a big reason why there's a developer drought compared to a couple of years ago is because new developers have no way to get into things.

Think about it, how did most of us start development? I know I started by simply noticing Graal had an editor client in it's installation folder, which I started playing around with for fun. As I got more and more experienced, I took development more and more serious, and I'm still here today.

I wouldn't have ever gotten into it if it wasn't for that offline client. New players today does not have that option at all.

Tim_Rocks · #20 04-22-2016, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticalDragon

Well graal decided to use ONLINE tools, since the game is a 100% online game.

To be honest, we don't really care what Graal decided. This isn't about what you want, it's about what the players want and care about. And we want easily obtainable development tools available to anyone interested in development.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticalDragon

Why would offline tools make it head in a better direction?

Offline tools that are easily obtainable encourage development. This is what made Graal unique and stand out amongst other games. The original offline editor allowed me to practice my level design until I had enough decent examples of my work to get a position on Era.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticalDragon

All the resources should go to improvising the client to be more sturdy.

That's why I suggested open source tools. We have very talented players on Graal that would be happy to put their skills to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticalDragon

There is already enough "online" tools that have the same features if not more features then the offline editors.

Those tools are only relevant on a server you happen to be staff on. You're basically asking players to pay to get the basic tools they need to develop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

offline editors are essential

Crono said it best.

BlueMelon · #21 04-23-2016, 12:32 PM

I don't even think Graal would need to invest much to get something up and running.

Check out this open source project: http://www.mapeditor.org/ (https://github.com/bjorn/tiled)

Not sure how easy it would be to adapt to the level file format graal uses, but the editor is super nice.

Is there any ressources that explains graal's level data encoding? If not there should be, since everything seems to be community driven now anyways

Tim_Rocks · #22 04-23-2016, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Check out this open source project: http://www.mapeditor.org/ (https://github.com/bjorn/tiled)

Pretty slick, it didn't take me long to start making levels in it. Levels are saved in xml format - so there's no easy way that I can think of to convert a level to .nw format. That's why I'd like to see the source code for the original editor.

BlueMelon · #23 04-23-2016, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Pretty slick, it didn't take me long to start making levels in it. Levels are saved in xml format - so there's no easy way that I can think of to convert a level to .nw format. That's why I'd like to see the source code for the original editor.

You can create custom export plugins in python or c++, that would be your best bet.

Tim_Rocks · #24 04-24-2016, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

You can create custom export plugins in python or c++, that would be your best bet.

I like that idea. There's likely nothing we can do about NPCs, gmaps, or images. Those are the things I'd like to see added to it.

This would be the most ideal type of editor for Graal:
https://github.com/elias-schuett/Online-Tile-Map-Editor

You'd run it in a web browser (easier to support). I'd have to do more digging to find out what would need done to add additional features to be more ideal for development.

I did find the source code for Gonstruct - https://github.com/fry/graal-gonstruct. It could be worth while to figure out the bugs instead.

Thoughts?

BlueMelon · #25 04-24-2016, 01:49 PM

Used Gonstruct once and last time I logged onto graal I always used the online tools...

Not sure what's wrong with it in the first place

Tim_Rocks · #26 04-24-2016, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Used Gonstruct once and last time I logged onto graal I always used the online tools...

Not sure what's wrong with it in the first place

It would always crash on me.. As for online tools, they require you to be online and be staff on a particular server.

Most staff teams won't hire inexperienced players. The only alternatives are Testbed (which has a strict rule for level development), or buy your own server.

racil · #27 04-24-2016, 04:07 PM

If there was a working editor you didn't need server access to it would be nice if it was available from the login screen so new players would have an easier way finding it too.

Tim_Rocks · #28 04-24-2016, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racil

If there was a working editor you didn't need server access to it would be nice if it was available from the login screen so new players would have an easier way finding it too.

I've never liked any of the existing online level editors. It mostly has to do with being disconnected all the time. I'd prefer avoiding online tools for stability purposes.

We could easily create a fork of the tiled editor and customize it to fit Graals needs.