The problem with weapon balances (an AA12 case study)

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

The AA12 didn't do so, not in my eyes or the eyes of everyone that is "good"

I agree it had balancing to do but I don't think it deserved the big kick in the balls that it received.

It was merely in my eyes that the demand for a nerf was so high because of the amount of them being used. It's like the MVP AK, when it was released and there were 3 it was a killer but the 3 people with them weren't, so it didn't matter but once more were stocked and more people got their hands on them... Wil, Corey and other semi-decent players it became a problem that needed to be fixed (Although you already told me that the clip was a mistake that you didn't even know about)

What I'm trying to say I guess is; The gun was semi-overpowered but wasn't that big of a threat because of the amount that were circling in the economy but once every staff and their dog (good old australian saying) were using them it became an issue that was inevitable to avoid.

Ish is right. Just because the people who have a gun aren't good doesn't mean the gun itself isn't OP. Ish is the gun admin, not the player skill admin.

Originally Posted by paintballdude956

This could be an interesting option either for all shotguns or for a new shotgun that has a lot better stats in trade-off for range.
My concern is actually scripting it. There's another weapon that's been in the works for a long time that's been halted because of a very similar issue with bullet lifetimes.

I was actually going to start looking into the projectile system to see what can be done.
I remember a while ago I was trying to make a gun that had a critical strike rating that would have run into the same problem.
The projectile system isn't that flexible, but I think it might be doable.

[Tim_Rocks]

I might be able to add some extra functionality by keeping track of where the bullet was fired from and where it hit. Measure distance and apply the appropriate damage.

[Chorchizcool]

ya tom that sounds mad good idea.

i could also see the idea that the bullets just end at a shorter distance if thats possible

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

I might be able to add some extra functionality by keeping track of where the bullet was fired from and where it hit. Measure distance and apply the appropriate damage.

I think the bullets already keep track of how long they've been flying (called this.flyTime, I think). You could just apply the appropriate damage based on how long it's been in the air.

[Tim_Rocks]

Not a bad thought.

[Demisis_P2P]

Shotguns definitely need SOMETHING different done to them so that they are useful without being overpowered.

Making the bullets do less damage over distance seems like only half a solution though. People will still spam corridors with shotguns and the opposing players will just have to take a gamble on how much damage they're going to take. Or they'll team up with somebody who has any other gun and the shotgun will lock down the area while the other person's bullets, which will be mostly obscured by all the shotgun bullets, will be doing the real damage.

The distinct advantage that shotguns have over other guns though, which I would hate for them to lose, is that they are great for encroaching and regaining territory from other wallers.

You can create some pretty solid walls with most guns that have 0.05 freeze (shipka comes to mind) since in a lot of cases they reload in close to the same time as the firerate (one bullet gap), and if they're moving forwards at the same time that gap is even smaller.
If you can get a gap against a waller in a corridor, whether because of reloading or because of spread, and you fire a single shotgun blast back at them it forces the other player to move back out of the corridor, or forces them to move up/down significantly more than just one shot with another gun, which creates room to move and respond.




Walling is an issue that extends way beyond shotguns. AA12 was just the extreme end of things because it had everything going for it (firerate, damage, reload).

tl;dr: if a limit is imposed I think the bullets should disappear at the limit, and the limit should be close to grenade distance just to make things interesting.