Hard Hats

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

No offense to whoever thought up the hard hat thing, but that's a dumb nerf to mining.

No job needs to be nerfed. Making money through jobs is already enough of a pain in the ass.

On top of that, realistically, in the event of a cave-in, protection against head injuries wouldn't do much to save your life. And disregarding realism, how is dying from a cave-in different from dying from a gunshot wound? You don't lose your rocks when you get shot to death, so why do you lose them when you're crushed to death by a thousand tons of rock? Dying is dying.

And just a little feedback on the dialogue from the information cat in the mines:
Gold is one of the softest metals. You'd be much better off wearing a helmet made of steel or some other hard metal; or maybe even some sort of polymer.

By the way, what does the Golden Shovel do? (again, not sure why a shovel made of gold would be better than a steel shovel.)

[Reddy548]

You have to spend 250 Bucks , thats almost whole money that a tnt rocks give , low levels waste 5 minutes or more to finish a tnt. So that's a Dumb update , And the funny is that hats will break so you have to spend more 250 bucks , if you dont you just lose ur life and alot of rocks that you already worked hard to mine.
Tell me whats the purpose on this.

[Tim_Rocks]

So you guys don't like role playing? Silly update though, should have made it so the hat just auto equips like the skateboard when you ride it...

[Supaman771]

Ugh... I wrote a long-winded explanation but it made me login and removed it.

Basically lets go with this.

Sage and I came up with the idea so we could add more dimensions to the job. This update was simply a bare-bones sketch out of the concept so I could put it into action and add the hats, as it was required to add the achievement and prize at the same time as the others.. as adding it in the future would negate any pre-made progress toward the achievement.

Honestly, if you want realism go outside, don't post about it on a game forum. @goldsoftmetalguy

A mine cave now produces 42 rocks.. when I used to mine it gave 28. This is one of multiple exponential updates mining has witnessed in recent years, or even weeks. This hardhat 'nerf' hardly (lolpun) will effect your overall performance though adds another dimension of the job we can add-on to in the future (Sage wanted the cave-in to be like a minigame and stoff :3 but he's busy and I ended up adding this, inthefuture etc.).

A single TNT cave will produce on average $437. A absolute worst-case scenario cave (100% lead.. which is a 30%/42 chance) would give you $252... still more than a hat. @reddy

Now lets break down the cave-in.
A normal hardhat has a 75% chance to break upon cave-in.. so one hat could potentially last multiple occurrences (one hat during testing lasted 4, with very few tests).. 25% is a large chunk to random for each time.
Your cave-in then has a 2% chance to occur... merely 4x your chance of winning a KSG from the mystery box.
Once you reach the golden hat achievement, you don't have to worry about this anymore.

So pre-achievement costs, on a pure average.. would round out to $28,750 (115 hats)
320000/42*.02*.75*250
Whilst during that duration, you would earn a cool.. $3,328,000
320000*10.4
So that's <1% of your total profits during your mining career prior to reaching the achievement.

OH NO BIG-BAD NERFGUY
q to the q.

Not even mentioning it requires only the attention span of a chic-pea to avoid buying hats all together (wall mining, and/or storing rocks between TNT, the little storage area in the mine is less than 5 seconds away).

Oh, plus this update would disrupt lesser-macroers. (Due to the cave-in stun)

Luhv ya guys, but cry about something else please... like the serverlag so Eurocenter fixes it and I can develop at a 100% rate without being disconnected/frozen every 10 minutes. Yeah, thanks.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Ugh... I wrote a long-winded explanation but it made me login and removed it.

Basically lets go with this.

Sage and I came up with the idea so we could add more dimensions to the job. This update was simply a bare-bones sketch out of the concept so I could put it into action and add the hats, as it was required to add the achievement and prize at the same time as the others.. as adding it in the future would negate any pre-made progress toward the achievement.

Honestly, if you want realism go outside, don't post about it on a game forum. @goldsoftmetalguy

A mine cave now produces 42 rocks.. when I used to mine it gave 28. This is one of multiple exponential updates mining has witnessed in recent years, or even weeks. This hardhat 'nerf' hardly (lolpun) will effect your overall performance though adds another dimension of the job we can add-on to in the future (Sage wanted the cave-in to be like a minigame and stoff :3 but he's busy and I ended up adding this, inthefuture etc.).

A single TNT cave will produce on average $437. A absolute worst-case scenario cave (100% lead.. which is a 30%/42 chance) would give you $252... still more than a hat. @reddy

Now lets break down the cave-in.
A normal hardhat has a 75% chance to break upon cave-in.. so one hat could potentially last multiple occurrences (one hat during testing lasted 4, with very few tests).. 25% is a large chunk to random for each time.
Your cave-in then has a 2% chance to occur... merely 4x your chance of winning a KSG from the mystery box.
Once you reach the golden hat achievement, you don't have to worry about this anymore.

So pre-achievement costs, on a pure average.. would round out to $28,750 (115 hats)
320000/42*.02*.75*250
Whilst during that duration, you would earn a cool.. $3,328,000
320000*10.4
So that's <1% of your total profits during your mining career prior to reaching the achievement.

OH NO BIG-BAD NERFGUY
q to the q.

Not even mentioning it requires only the attention span of a chic-pea to avoid buying hats all together (wall mining, and/or storing rocks between TNT, the little storage area in the mine is less than 5 seconds away).

Oh, plus this update would disrupt lesser-macroers. (Due to the cave-in stun)

Luhv ya guys, but cry about something else please... like the serverlag so Eurocenter fixes it and I can develop at a 100% rate without being disconnected/frozen every 10 minutes. Yeah, thanks.

I can refute this in one sentence after this opening one, here goes with my question!

Time is more valuable than the currency itself, by doing this update, you elongate your content in a way that is unsatisfying to a player as well as alienating the majority who want to play casually; do you really want this?

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Oh, I get it. Adding more rocks per cave would have been impossible without adding some bullshit hat thing that you have to stop and buy every so often, which according to you, barely makes a difference one way or the other. Sounds like a great update.

You took the job that was already the most involved (requiring a drill, TNT, and batteries, just to start off, then having to grind the rocks in a machine once the actual mining part is over) and added more complexity to it. If you want to add dimensions to a job, maybe choose one that doesn't have many to it to begin with (like digging).

Not to mention, the method you used to add dimensions was, in my opinion, bad design. You needed a reward for an achievement, and you apparently couldn't think of anything in the span of the time it took to develop the achievements, so you invented a negative quality to the job that you could later take away once the player mines enough rocks, leaving him back where he started (albeit wearing an ugly helmet) after doing so much work. You created an artificial problem where none existed so you could solve it. That's bad design and it defeats your goal of adding dimensions, since it doesn't actually make a difference in the end. Basically, this paragraph can be summed up like so: "We're going to add this pile of **** to the game, and if you work hard enough, it'll be like it never existed."

And it seems to me that it would have been more in line with what you did with the reward for digging achievements if you made the reward for mining achievements an upgraded version of the main tool for the job (i.e. a drill), rather than arbitrarily adding something else to the job. But you know... consistency is overrated.

What you did is the equivalent of making the achievement reward for digging a pair of golden sandals so you don't burn your feet on the sand, then adding a $250 pair of normal ass sandals to the shop that breaks every so often and is a mandatory part of the job, or else you die when you dig and lose all your shells.
(Please don't take that as a suggestion for a feature, because that's a terrible feature.)
(And just a side note -- Gold conducts heat far better than any plastic, foam, wood, or leather and would make for shitty sandals if the goal is to protect your feet from the heat of the sand ;D
and people would steal them when you went in the water. Unless you wore them in, but that would make it harder to swim, since they are neither hydrodynamic, nor bouyant.)

I'd like to point out that you made no mention of the change to the rocks per cave in the News post, which is arguably more important than the hats.

Also, I'm not talking **** about the achievement system as a whole, just this mess.
Although here's something about the achievement system I'm not a huge fan of: You can't disable the notifications from other people's achievements.

[shrimps]

I agree with the it was never mentioned in new post thing, I wouldn't have ever known about it if I didn't read these forums and would have been pretty pissed going to mine and WAM I lose lots of rocks. This update kinda should have been mentioned in the news.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Fiberwyre_P2P

Oh, I get it. Adding more rocks per cave would have been impossible without adding some bullshit hat thing that you have to stop and buy every so often, which according to you, barely makes a difference one way or the other. Sounds like a great update.

Although here's something about the achievement system I'm not a huge fan of: You can't disable the notifications from other people's achievements.

The rocks per cave were updated some time ago, just one of numerous updates making mining buffed to hell. (the $15 TNT cost never changed, however per-TNT your new profit rose from $186 (average) to a $437 average... plus you now mine those TNT 1.5x as fast (potion) and refine up to 4x as fast (based on your level).) A negative addition was a long-time coming.

Oh and I've tried to add new/other drills and mining methods on a handful of occasions... it would require recoding nearly the entire mining system to do this (since it is coded in the drill itself, and the classes call functions from said system).

Though, you're not entirely wrong, "We're going to add this pile of **** to the game, and if you work hard enough, it'll be like it never existed." is accurate, though a pretty raunchy explanation.

Agree with the achievement notifications, needs a toggle like kill streaks.

Originally Posted by shrimps

I agree with the it was never mentioned in new post thing, I wouldn't have ever known about it if I didn't read these forums and would have been pretty pissed going to mine and WAM I lose lots of rocks. This update kinda should have been mentioned in the news.

It was... and I went out of the way to add additional information to each mine w/ those hardhat NPCs.

[MonkeyBob]

I think I speak for everyone when I say, this update is ***.

[Supaman771]

I like how no one ever makes a thread saying how cool or good a update is.

This was like 15 minutes of the hours I've been developing the past couple days (and half of that was recoloring the gold hat in paint :3), the only one of you who even plays Era is Shrimps, and he has the highest mining level active... giving me the most respectable opinion here based on Mining content... his only comment is that he failed to read the News GUI.

Shoo, I'll probably modify it later when I'm home anyway.

[Lime_O_Matic]

To be honest, the nerfing doesn't change much. With the rising economy, it makes sense to nerf mining because it is the easiest way to make money. It's only like 1-2% of your profit.

The problem would be the way the achievement system is sorted. For some reason, most of the achievements go from easy to obtain in a day to it'll take you years (at least for the job ones).

And what will the mining for years get you? The same stupid hat you've been wearing, but you'll make 100k/100k instead of a normal 99k/100k. There is no incentive to get the achievement, and that's a flaw.

Rogue thank you for updating jobs and trying to make things interesting. I know this stuff isn't set in stone and I think that's a good thing. We are in a game where we dodge bullets, blast tnt non stop for rocks to fall from the ceiling, dig up sea shells that for some reason have been buried, and collect never ending trash. Don't worry about the realism, worry about making the players want to collect these achievements and keep playing.

[Supaman771]

Alright a little update:

I disabled the cave-in feature since it was a rushed addition, and I don't currently have the time/resources (sagey is busy) to make it as elaborate as our original idea.

The golden helmet will instead function to improve your mining speed (as per what Fiber suggested.. yes this is now a buff), similar to a worker potion. It adds a +10% output modifier, and also stacks with worker potions (for a +60% modifier).

Plus its cute, so get at me.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

I like how no one ever makes a thread saying how cool or good a update is.

It's within human nature that the bad outweighs the good in our conscious minds.

Why do you think we spend more time complaining or being angry than being happy or excited over something? We'll even attack those whom are happy and excited with that same anger and bitterness.

It's apart of what you're dealing with.

[Tim_Rocks]

I think I speak for everyone when I say we need to get harder hats. We should be thinking of our children.

[ilovegirlzz]

once again an update that only prolongs the process of getting rich..oh well just jump over this other barrel mario