Classic Discontinued

[ffcmike]

I reluctantly announce that Classic/Graal the Adventure has officially withdrawn from the server list.

While a period of further development may be necessary for the server to become revitalized, I am sorry to those who have stood by the server despite troubles to say that all plans are cancelled, and that the server is set to remain in this state indefinitely.

This decision is the result of a general consensus among staff, who also agree that a monumental effort was made to both develop and push the server, but unfortunately it has not been enough and continuing efforts under the current circumstances would be clutching at straws.

It should not come as a surprise to hear that the main reasons for this are the game-breaking observer mode plus the vastly dated and unreasonable subscription policy.
When deciding to rebuild Classic from scratch, I honestly believed there may be at least one positive change in regards to this issue within 3 years. It has now been a total of 5 and a half years since the current policies were implemented, Stefan has recently expressed that he doesn't understand why observer mode is a bad thing, that trials logging out in frustration is a good thing, and despite iPhone Graal proving to be a shining beacon of light as to how allowing free players to properly experience the game can actually be beneficial, he still maintains that PlayerWorlds should be using hard-coded restrictions that massively hinder the game.

I should state that it would be wrong to put the server's failure entirely down to these policies, mistakes have certainly been made and there are things that given another opportunity I would wish to attempt differently.

The benefit of hindsight would however also apply to our attempts to remove observer mode, where much of the replies turned out to be lies, bovine fecal matter, evasive or irrelevant excuses, or no response at all.
To single out and highlight one of multiple examples of how frustrating this has been, in one of the unreplied-to emails, a private video was included. Within days of sending, certain elements of this video were put into use on iPhone. Youtube analytics showed there had been multiple views from 2 unique viewers in France, however a response to a later email of mine purported the initial email had not yet been read.

It's a huge shame to say goodbye to such an incredible amount of work, but never say never, there is still some discussion going on behind the scenes, or alternatively the server may have a different option at some point in future.

I would like to finish off by saying a big thank you to Racil, who Classic's redevelopment couldn't have got far without, and is possibly the nicest person on Graal, I've been privileged to work with you. Honorable mentions go to WhiteDragon, Bell, Nello, Ranger and Skyzer, who have all contributed a key role in one way or another.

[Pandar]

My sympathies, Thor. Grey and I went through a lot of the same garbage in our attempts to get Babylon back up and running several years ago, so I know how frustrating it is to watch the management behind the game seemingly thwart any attempt its players have at giving it a chance of restoration. This is the exact kind of fate we assumed we'd meet, and we used our foresight to conclude Babylon's development, despite many requests to continue it. It is a shame.

I'm hoping continued events like this will either queue Stefan & Unixmad to make changes, or (and in my opinion, the better solution), finally lead to Graal dying.

Thanks for all your hard work to try to bring back one of the good things Graal once had to offer.

[cbk1994]

Sorry to see this, I know you put an incredible amount of work into that server. Best of luck.

[Rave_J]

that sucks... u ever try classic with a mix instead of pure classic ?

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

that sucks... u ever try classic with a mix instead of pure classic ?

i agree, classic should of been mixed with purple to attract a more urban crowd.

[scriptless]

R.i.p!

[weeway]

RIP Classic My first graal home.

[EclipsedAngel]

Thanks for the strong effort of trying to push Classic back up on it's feet. I was looking forward to it, but by the time it was up, I was both very much over, and uninterested in Graal.

I was hoping that there would be a nice and lively community back in Classic when it came up, but I was met with the casual group of boring idlers and other people who just complained and basically did nothing. One of the reasons I stopped playing graal for the most part is because of this. Any other server with people that actually do stuff isn't in my interest since it falls outside the Zelda 3 feel.

I'd just like to say that I really appreciated what Thor and others did, but people were just too callous, and I really didn't want to subject myself to that.

[papajchris]

I feel bad for you, but in to be honest I feel quite joyous. I believe this will need to happen more often for change to come. I'm sorry you put a lot of effort into this, and Graal screwed you over. But none of us here will forget Classic and the trend it will hopefully start. Developers and players need to man-up and QUIT coming back to Graal.

[Crono]

was a fine attempt.

if anything, your quests were probably the best graal ever got and will ever get.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Crono

if anything, your quests were probably the best graal ever got and will ever get.

I have to agree. Very nice work, I really admire your willpower. It's sad to see this happen, but not surprising.

[smirt362]

Sorry to see the server go.

[Minoc]

[maximus_asinus]

Stefan is an ostrich. Come at me bro!

[zerxusgraal]

Why not pass it to another developer to keep it up?
Thats the problem these days, good servers go online then the staff gets tired of it and takes it down.. When i was working for n-pulse there were atleast 5-6 different owners.
Pass it on. Dont just take it down

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by zerxusgraal

Why not pass it to another developer to keep it up?
Thats the problem these days, good servers go online then the staff gets tired of it and takes it down.. When i was working for n-pulse there were atleast 5-6 different owners.
Pass it on. Dont just take it down

Considering the current state of Graal it would be pretty pointless.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by zerxusgraal

Why not pass it to another developer to keep it up?
Thats the problem these days, good servers go online then the staff gets tired of it and takes it down.. When i was working for n-pulse there were atleast 5-6 different owners.
Pass it on. Dont just take it down

Originally Posted by Minoc

Considering the current state of Graal it would be pretty pointless.

In the coming months, Jigga will give us the Classic that we deserve.

[NicoX]

Sad to see this. You did ALOT of work, and the Quests were awesome. But I have to agree, the subscriptions for Graal are way to expensive. I hope they will realize it soon and change it.

[James]

rip classic. pc graal is dead anyways. thanks for your efforts thor.

so much potential for this game...i really wish unixmad would have just sold graal to someone that actually knew how to run a business. it's getting too late for that though...game is becoming very dated and has a pretty terrible overall reputation. if bought by the right company it could definitely be turned around. would like to see stefan retained by the buyer.

graal's biggest problems:
a) disconnection between the community and the boss (unixbread)

b) every year somehow the client GUI gets uglier and uglier (anyone ever remember when graal actually had the green theme going for it?) honestly looks like its from 1994.

c) website is extremely uninviting and bland

d) graals pointless and hard-to-navigate/confusing subscription system. seems to me they like to exploit ways to make fast cash instead of actually putting time and effort into working with current playerworld owners into a nice and well-designed cash shop with specific needs for each individual playerworld.

e) whatever happened to stefan working with top developers to create new official worlds? having the man around to add new features to the client is invaluable.


blah blah rant.

i just show up to troll and see if anything actually changes around here.

Originally Posted by kia345

In the coming months, Jigga will give us the Classic that we deserve.

[Gos_pira]

Originally Posted by kia345

In the coming months, Jigga will give us the Classic that we deserve.

The version of classic that was trashed in favor of Storm's GS2 classic? (a.k.a Tyhm's Classic)

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by zerxusgraal

Why not pass it to another developer to keep it up?
Thats the problem these days, good servers go online then the staff gets tired of it and takes it down.. When i was working for n-pulse there were atleast 5-6 different owners.
Pass it on. Dont just take it down

I already tried arguing that. Just because Thor, and the current staff have given up on it doesn't mean it should be taken down. But his response was something similar to Stefan or Graal (both or just Stefan, I forget) do not deserve the hard work he has put into the server. It's kinda sad, I don't think any of us can just start from scratch and have it approved as the new GTA server either, so it just dies with Thor.

And you sure your not another "scriptless".. there seems to be a lot of him going around lately.

Hopefully when the subscription policy changes and everyone can see it's not as bad as they thought, Classic can make a return but for now I think it's best left at R.I.P.

[Tricxta]

As sad as it is to see this go, I don't feel it'll make the 'hoped for' impact upon stefan. As long as the ios exists, it'll bring with it fresh players who soon tire of being just players and purchase a server with their parents credit card only to find their server will probably never make it to the ios like they originally fantasized. Word will eventually catch on and things will change eventually but that'll take forever as I feel 12-16 year olds (a.k.a. the ios graal market) seem to have some kind of weak spot which graal taps into to in terms of spending irl currency for the sake of a shiny hat and an incredible blind spot when it comes to knowing what a bad deal is (value for money wise).

[Deophite18]

Not a lot of people truly realize the amount of time the developers & Thor specifically put into revamping this server. Had a lot of good times there gonna miss it.

[Luda]

nice

[Rave_J]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

i agree, classic should of been mixed with purple to attract a more urban crowd.

i just think classic could still have that classic feel but more rpgish or something i just think a pure classic style Zelda doesn't work on this new era of graal sadly

[Rave_J]

Originally Posted by Minoc

Considering the current state of Graal it would be pretty pointless.

LOL i remember one time it was like SAdie and DS then Rai then few other people and some how they still manage to release a whole new server during all theses manager changes

[zerxusgraal]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

LOL i remember one time it was like SAdie and DS then Rai then few other people and some how they still manage to release a whole new server during all theses manager changes

Thats because we had a very active lat team handling the overworld changes.
Archaon was a great lat admin and I think we changed/updated the entire ow like 4 or 5 times. Haha

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by papajchris

I feel bad for you, but in to be honest I feel quite joyous. I believe this will need to happen more often for change to come. I'm sorry you put a lot of effort into this, and Graal screwed you over. But none of us here will forget Classic and the trend it will hopefully start. Developers and players need to man-up and QUIT coming back to Graal.

I'll be brutally honest with the view I've had for quite a long time now on this. My thoughts on this are that since iPhone is proving to be the better outcome for Stefan and his lot, they're leaving developers to die out bit by bit and to deal with stupid things like Observer Mode and ridiculous subscription structures hoping that one day they'll check back here and see that we've all up and quit so they can finally announce that there will be no more support at all given to the PC version of Graal. Not that we're getting any support as it is, but make it official and blame it on lack of interest from players.

That's honestly how I feel and don't think they're going to extend us an olive branch of any kind. Not to players, not to developers, not even to the global administration teams.

[TwinDragons]

This is pretty stupid, Classic was the only reason I actually played for awhile now. The owners need to realize, as you all know that it isn't really worth anything to keep the observer mode and subscriptions at this price when the population of PC Client is oh I don't know 300 players combining all the servers?

[StrykerTFFD]

Classic has been on a slow, downward spiral for a very long time. Those of us who have been around for it all shouldn't be surprised to see the server go and it would be hard to pinpoint exactly what caused it all.

[racil]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

i agree, classic should of been mixed with purple to attract a more urban crowd.

[gotenks725]

Originally Posted by racil

Attachment 55318

Lmao Racil..
I guess there is no point in trying to log in between crap irl anymore...

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

and it would be hard to pinpoint exactly what caused it all.

Yes, it's very hard to see the removal of free to play, the failed NPC server transition, and overall population decline on all of Graal as the causes.

[Bell]

I know this doesn't mean much but I would like to thank both Thor and Racil for their dedication and hard work. I know firsthand what a monumental task it was and both still tried against all odds. I'm going to miss my home and the one place I truly belonged but I know in my heart they made the right choice under the circumstances.

Don't worry Ranger, I'm not going to force you to become the new manager........ yet.

[Hiro]

lol

[Pandar]

Originally Posted by Bell

I know this doesn't mean much but I would like to thank both Thor and Racil for their dedication and hard work. I know firsthand what a monumental task it was and both still tried against all odds. I'm going to miss my home and the one place I truly belonged but I know in my heart they made the right choice under the circumstances.

Don't worry Ranger, I'm not going to force you to become the new manager........ yet.

,

said the only authoritative figure in Graal's entire cabinet of globals that gives a single **** about what goes on on PC now.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Bell

I know this doesn't mean much but I would like to thank both Thor and Racil for their dedication and hard work. I know firsthand what a monumental task it was and both still tried against all odds. I'm going to miss my home and the one place I truly belonged but I know in my heart they made the right choice under the circumstances.

Don't worry Ranger, I'm not going to force you to become the new manager........ yet.

We shall battle on Era with bamboo's and knives!

[lostmypassword]

Rest in peace, real classic. I kept checking back over the years, hoping, and waiting. I'm sad that it comes to this, when all it would take is just the TINIEST bit of heart from someone with the power to do something.

[Scoper]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I'll be brutally honest with the view I've had for quite a long time now on this. My thoughts on this are that since iPhone is proving to be the better outcome for Stefan and his lot, they're leaving developers to die out bit by bit and to deal with stupid things like Observer Mode and ridiculous subscription structures hoping that one day they'll check back here and see that we've all up and quit so they can finally announce that there will be no more support at all given to the PC version of Graal. Not that we're getting any support as it is, but make it official and blame it on lack of interest from players.

That's honestly how I feel and don't think they're going to extend us an olive branch of any kind. Not to players, not to developers, not even to the global administration teams.

I like to think, based on their poorly worded user agreement, that should they ever decide they no longer want to support PC, they would just man up and say "you're screwed, users! It was fun taking your money"

IMO, PC has become a breeding ground for developers, even as they die off in droves. The ones that stay stupidly dedicated sometimes migrate to iServers, which is probably the main goal now.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Scoper

IMO, PC has become a breeding ground for developers, even as they die off in droves. The ones that stay stupidly dedicated sometimes migrate to iServers, which is probably the main goal now.

This is exactly how I see it too. If developers didn't have to put up with PC Graal being an unsupported game with a pricing & restriction strategy which is akin to sabotage, the Stefan-led server ports (with such awesome cliff tiles ) would not have as much leeway when it comes to significant unpaid development work.

In a way it makes sense though I'm sure if PC Graal was properly nurtured it would have more of a beneficial effect in the long run. Accomplished coders aren't becoming more common when the vast majority of aspiring developers have to re-upgrade constantly.

(No reason this thread should be closed whoever did that)