Level-off

[Kamaeru]

It's almost been a year.

You all suck.

[FaLLChiLD]

Bumping this as well to MAKE CRONO FINISH UP! I'm about to come rob your victory from you boy.

[Kamaeru]

I'm pondering about working on more stuff.

[figured]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

I'm pondering about working on more stuff.

You should. The levels all look amazing. I kinda wanna see more. They are very inspiration to others.

[Gos_pira]

My contribution. Not classic, but still.

[scriptless]

Nice level Gos_pira.

[Gos_pira]

Thanks! I actually originally made this in 2004 then revamped it a couple of times. It was part of a playerworld I developed in GS1 offline from time to time.

EDIT:
It originally looked like this (except, it was using the original pics1-tileset and used the .graal format):

[bioboi]

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

Thanks! I actually originally made this in 2004 then revamped it a couple of times. It was part of a playerworld I developed in GS1 offline from time to time.

EDIT:
It originally looked like this (except, it was using the original pics1-tileset and used the .graal format):
Attachment 55298

Actually like the paths in the original more then the updated version, but most of the changes in the updated changes seem better, aside from like I said the paths.

[Gos_pira]

The "paths" is supposed to be roads rather than a single file block-road that only fit one player.

[xSecrets]

(Unfinished Water Bar)

[dbug]

nice levels there xsecrets.. keep up the work

[Kamaeru]

Tip: less zig-zags, more platonic geometry

[dbug]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Tip: less zig-zags, more platonic geometry

I think the first time I saw zig-zag style was on N-Pulse, there was an island made by Es Canavi and Lucky Canavi.. was later removed. And alot of the main land was kinda revamped in this style. Tho I gotta say they pulled it off pretty well.

I don't know if it's just me but I kinda like the strait edge's like the early graal years.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by dbug

I think the first time I saw zig-zag style was on N-Pulse, there was an island made by Es Canavi and Lucky Canavi.. was later removed. And alot of the main land was kinda revamped in this style. Tho I gotta say they pulled it off pretty well.

I don't know if it's just me but I kinda like the strait edge's like the early graal years.

They take up space, serve no purpose, you can't jump off them. You can't do anything with it, it's just a barrier that isn't shaped like a normal barrier.

[Kamaeru]

Crono can you seriously not make one level god damn son.

[maximus_asinus]

no he can't, he is a terrible LAT

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Crono can you seriously not make one level god damn son.

I was working on a small gmap but lost interest. I don't really dev on Graal, more of a Dota 2 player. The shallow water was gonna have grass paths, top of the cliff detailed with trees etc.

The idea was that you hit the hammer-stump...thing with a hammer and the mouth on the cliff opens.

[Kamaeru]

Hmm, well who's judging this? By my judgement you fail I give this level a 2/10 incomplete level.
Everyone else please submit your rating of levels now, competition is closed.

[Crono]

Considering I didn't submit anything you win by default, even though your tile-error ridden level is **** on by just about anything on my incomplete gmap.

[Kamaeru]

If anything my tasteful level could teach your level a thing or two about not shitting everywhere.

Even if you would have completed the level you still would have lost, mainly because your idea of hitting a stake with a hammer in the middle of a body of water was really out of place, and only served the purpose of you showing off (which subsequently you couldn't even boast anything).
To be fair, this is the only level I have ever seen which has been made by you. I'm going to pretend like I never saw the ones you linked to because they were pretty terrible even compared to this **** storm.

Now I will cover the topic of tile errors, and explain where you have failed in your level at using tiles properly. The first two problems lie in the southwest and southeast corners of the level. Do I need to circle these screw-ups in MS Paint for you or something? This looks god awful, a completely unintended use of the tile set. The graveyard looks like something you would see on Unholy Nation. That's not how you tile a grave yard properly, and I don't feel the need to provide any further backup for this statement. Ask and you shall receive.
Actually, you can find problems with your level in these places: North, South, East, and West quadrants. Any direction you look there is something incomplete and what has been tiled was done very liberally, as if the creator was new to leveling or something.
You said my level was "error-ridden". Where?

You did two things right. The first one is the dungeon entrance, good job. Looks sort of like it could have been semi-cool, if completed and polished. The second one is the shallow water, you basically used this properly, and I mean a once-in-graal-history proper usage type of deal. This is very similar to how the tiles were used in Zelda, I mean. But you said yourself that you planned on messing it up with grass tiles.

[Elk]

Very nice concept gerami

[MattKan]

Cave is cool

[Elk]

Surely it can be improved visually, but the idea behind it is cool

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Crono

I was working on a small gmap but lost interest. I don't really dev on Graal, more of a Dota 2 player. The shallow water was gonna have grass paths, top of the cliff detailed with trees etc.

The idea was that you hit the hammer-stump...thing with a hammer and the mouth on the cliff opens.

Honestly, I can understand not wanting to develop for Graal anymore.

But as for the level you did put in and for what information you did submit that wasn't included, here's my two cents on it.

It's plain and it's not exactly interesting by itself, I wouldn't go as far as Kamaeru said and say it was a failure, it's just average for incomplete.
As far as interaction for the area, it has potential, but without any further information it is rather ham-fisted.

[Kamaeru]

Rather quite ham fisted. Why the heck would do you have to walk all the way across a gmap to get to the stake? It's not like it's hidden, it's obviously meant to catch the player's eye. What kind of gameplay concept is this? Argh it's driving me insane! I hope there's a run button in your game because walking across that shallow water to hit that stake looks boring as ****, whether you put some grass tiles there or not man.

I can imagine how this game plays out. I was thinking this must be the beginning and first dungeon, because the player doesn't require anything besides pulling their thumb out of their ass to figure out how to get inside. It's a lot like The Great Deku Tree, so I'm going to call this hill The Great Doo-Doo Hill. Doo-Doo Hill says to the player

"You must save Hyrule, you are the chosen boy. If you could only muster up the Courage, your journey will take you to far away places. Now I will die, but in order to proceed you must go over there to The Stake. It is... The Master Stake. Only the chosen boy can hit The Master Stake..."

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Rather quite ham fisted. Why the heck would do you have to walk all the way across a gmap to get to the stake? It's not like it's hidden, it's obviously meant to catch the player's eye. What kind of gameplay concept is this? Argh it's driving me insane! I hope there's a run button in your game because walking across that shallow water to hit that stake looks boring as ****, whether you put some grass tiles there or not man.

I can imagine how this game plays out. I was thinking this must be the beginning and first dungeon, because the player doesn't require anything besides pulling their thumb out of their ass to figure out how to get inside. It's a lot like The Great Deku Tree, so I'm going to call this hill The Great Doo-Doo Hill. Doo-Doo Hill says to the player

I think you're getting a bit too serious lol

[Crono]

Gonna be honest, didn't really read a word of Kamaeru's rant. You're way too serious about LATing, it's just something I used to do for fun bro.

The levels I've posted here have always been impractical and about style over anything else. The fact that I pieced together a few stupid cliffs properly (something like 99% of Graal's LATs (including you) can't even do to this day, even with Wan's pre-defined cliff pack) utterly destroys your mess of a level. Where's your styling? Where's your detail? Why the disgusting tile errors? I get that you want to mimic the alttp style, but if you think that's aesthetic then I feel sorry for you.

To elaborate for others, there was gonna be an NPC in the open field of grass where you get your hammer. He gives it to you, you bang open dat cave door, walk in. Straight forward, no bull****, like a proper game should be anyway. Rest was going to be standard, pretty dirt roads, splashes of dirt-water here and there for flare etc, dat grass detail I do that everyone seems to appreciate, and so on.

Fact is, making levels isn't fun for me anymore. It's incredibly boring and I hate opening level editor.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Dudes, just click the tiles.


I'm trying to get faster at leveling and being able to polish them nicely but also keep them simple and establish a speed of work so that my amount of skill can actually be applied.

Unfinished level - 0.05 / 10.

Also because you're an idiot if you think players can walk over these tiles which makes this place look stupid.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Crono

I get that you want to mimic the alttp style, but if you think that's aesthetic then I feel sorry for you.

The rules of the competition were to mimic this style, I pointed out your failure to appreciate the style in general. These tiles we are using were designed to be used in that style, so it is the most adequate and general designated style to use in a competitive format. Your style is more like Rock n Roll or Jazz, whereas the qualifying factor in the competition was a truly Classical style, and I don't mean Classic.

As far as taste for aesthetic goes, I don't think it takes a genius to make a strong argument that ALTTP has much better aesthetic than both of our levels. It also doesn't take a genius to notice that it also has a lot, lot more tile errors than Graal does, and still maintains some of the dopest and most influential levels ever made. Whenever you talk about the leveling style of Zelda as if it were somehow ugly or improper in a level design forum about using custom Zelda 3 tilesets which you are subsequently the moderator of, it makes you look like you're contradicting yourself. And it also makes me want to shove my head through my monitor violently. My bullshit detector is going off about ten times per post you make.

[maximus_asinus]

Crono's level wins because he actually has a plan for his level akin to let's say Turtle Rock or Desert Temple in LTTP. I can see what Kamaeru was going for and it could have been good but choice of tiles was terrible.

[WanDaMan]

I win even with this piece of unfinished **** I made years ago.

[maximus_asinus]

Nah I already won with my submission a few pages back

[Kamaeru]

I can agree with that, asinus. You definitely understood the rules better than Crono or Wan.
But everyone failed at cliffing other than myself, with loosey-goosey styles which zig-zag all over the screen like an eight year old was playing with a ****ing etch-a-sketch or something. Tighten up your cliffing and add more geometrical tiers! You might think I'm wrong about this, but that is the way the tiles were invented to be used in Zelda III. Worry less about minor errors which can be fixed later, and concern yourself more about the context of the tiles, ways they are intended to be used yet rarely get implemented. Think I'm wrong? Take a look at the area surrounding Lake Hylia if you're a Graal level designer, and get ready to have your hater minds blown.

I have posted another shot of my entry just in case some people only read the last few pages and were looking at the other unfinished level I posted while waiting for Crono for over a year. This level owns Crono's level in many ways, but I would rather have critics try and figure out a way to rationalize that it does not. I worked on this level for about 1 hour.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

This level owns Crono's level in many ways, but I would rather have critics try and figure out a way to rationalize that it does not.

You're a pretty funny guy. Learn to properly piece together a simple cliff curve then come back at me.

[callimuc]

All prayers belong to Kamaeru!

Amen.

[Torankusu]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

I can agree with that, asinus. You definitely understood the rules better than Crono or Wan.
But everyone failed at cliffing other than myself, with loosey-goosey styles which zig-zag all over the screen like an eight year old was playing with a ****ing etch-a-sketch or something. Tighten up your cliffing and add more geometrical tiers! You might think I'm wrong about this, but that is the way the tiles were invented to be used in Zelda III. Worry less about minor errors which can be fixed later, and concern yourself more about the context of the tiles, ways they are intended to be used yet rarely get implemented. Think I'm wrong? Take a look at the area surrounding Lake Hylia if you're a Graal level designer, and get ready to have your hater minds blown.

I have posted another shot of my entry just in case some people only read the last few pages and were looking at the other unfinished level I posted while waiting for Crono for over a year. This level owns Crono's level in many ways, but I would rather have critics try and figure out a way to rationalize that it does not. I worked on this level for about 1 hour.

crono is right, the cliffs here are bad.

Also, Where is Wan's predefined cliff's pack?

I just want to see if there is something I have overlooked in mine.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Torankusu

crono is right, the cliffs here are bad.

Also, Where is Wan's predefined cliff's pack?

I just want to see if there is something I have overlooked in mine.

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...hp?t=134264286

[Kamaeru]

On the real though, I won because my level was complete and better. Your tile error was that you didn't finish your level because it was obnoxious. You can argue that your clean pretty zig zag expressive style of cliffing is better, and it might even make sense to you for some reason.

[callimuc]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

On the real though, I won because my level was complete and better. Your tile error was that you didn't finish your level because it was obnoxious. You can argue that your clean pretty zig zag expressive style of cliffing is better, and it might even make sense to you for some reason.

Well I think my blank new#.nw levels I've created in the past would have won by far. No tile errors at all and were completed as they've been carrying out their job to debug stuff.

[Luda]

I win because I say I win, deal with it