Boosting Playercount

[blackbeltben]

Hello all,
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I don't know about you but I miss the good days when Graal PC had a huge player base. I have composed of three ideas to boost the player count, all advertise based in a way.

Idea 1

Steam Play.
For those who do not know what steam is, it's a large app store for the PC where you can buy and download a lot of xbox and ps3 games, along with solo made PC games.
How does this help? putting Graal on the Steam Store will guarantee people will see it. Now what would be cool is if Graal had steam play. (Execute Graal Client off of the steam Library game list.)



Idea 2

Windows 8 app Store
For those who do not have Windows 8, It's pretty cool. There is an App store, much like the Apple app store, where you can buy and download games. And a lot of stuff on there is free.
I have explored the app store front and back, and there really isn't an good online games on there. If Stefan puts the download on there soon, I guarantee people will download it in a heart beat.



Idea 3

MMO Hut
MMOhut.com is a website that has just about every free MMORPG out there. They also do reviews and updates. But the real viewer count is on there youtube channel.
If we can get one of the guys to do a video review for graal and get that on youtube, publicity would sky-rocket.

[dude2020]

Won't work with the current model.

[Starfire2001]

Idea 4

Reasonable subscription pricing

[blackbeltben]

Won't work with the current model.

Perhaps go in depth?

Idea 4

Reasonable subscription pricing

Idea 4.1
Take subscribing off

[ffcmike]

Idea 5

Actually want Playercount to be boosted on PC Graal.

[blackbeltben]

Idea 5

Actually want Playercount to be boosted on PC Graal.

You don't want it up/?

[Felix_Xenophobe]

idea 6:
worthwhile content

we can do this all day bro

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by blackbeltben

You don't want it up/?

If that was the case I would have the balls to admit it, and wouldn't be pretending otherwise or deliberately misleading people as they make a lot of effort.

Originally Posted by Felix_Xenophobe

idea 6:
worthwhile content

we can do this all day bro

I've had a lot of people give kudos for the content Classic has produced over the last few years, but at the end of day, trials log out in frustration when they enter observer mode (or realise there's few players, which also has a lot to do with restrictions and pricing), and Graal's owner(s) openly say this is the goal.

[scriptless]

I think the Windows 8 App Store would be a great start. But, doesn't that require it to be Intel/ARM compatible? Would be neat to play Graal on a tablet plus the App Store would help advertise it greatly.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I've had a lot of people give kudos for the content Classic has produced over the last few years, but at the end of day, trials log out in frustration when they enter observer mode (or realise there's few players, which also has a lot to do with restrictions and pricing), and Graal's owner(s) openly say this is the goal.

Not true, I would play Graal the Adventure (Classic) but I have already beaten that game. I have finished all quest's. Maxed my bomb.. If other people had reason to stay online maybe I could score a TCG match or event.. I religiously pay for Graal on multiple accounts. We get it your mad at the owners and your taking it out on the rest of us who pay for Graal.. Don't know what WE did to piss you off but thanks for how you treat us.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Not true, I would play Graal the Adventure (Classic) but I have already beaten that game. I have finished all quest's. Maxed my bomb.. If other people had reason to stay online maybe I could score a TCG match or event.. I religiously pay for Graal on multiple accounts. I would upgrade others to but current lack of content is a bigger issue then the trial restrictions in place.. I can buy my way around the restrictions, I cant buy more content for classic.. You obviously are mad at the owners and taking it out on those of us with Lifetime accounts AND Gold accounts. *cough* selfish and rude *cough*

I think you're missing the point here. The purpose of this thread appears to be aimed towards attracting a new audience, you'd played through on an account which was upgraded prior to visiting Classic.

As things stand, a new player is having to pay a price for 12 months of Gold which is comparable if not greater than a new Zelda console game release, it would be ridiculous to think that many would pay such a price for Graal before they've even tried the game, and unrealistic to expect anyone to develop a server as extensive as LTTP with no incentives and a prohibitive payment scheme.
In the case of Classic, those new players who do try the game tend to have had their 5 hours "free time" used up elsewhere, even on servers where observer mode is disabled.

It's important to consider that Classic is supposed to revolve strongly around Questing and Competition, not things like grinding or leveling up stats. While questing, the effects of observer mode go beyond mere frustration, it has disrupted staff's ability to provide a trial with help, and in an indefinite number of ways can bug a trial to such an extent they can no longer progress, the solution being to reconnect, and endure another bout of waiting.

In terms of competition, we haven't allowed trials into events because of the disruption observer mode would cause, there isn't even a way to determine a trial's remaining "free time". Then there's the trading card game, which tends to last more than 5 minutes, which if you're a trial makes it difficult to avoid entering OM mid game.
Even if I were to release a mini-game or two as a form of grinding as part an economy, trials would still end up prohibited.

The one thing most people seem to agree on is that players attract players, and I know other servers have different circumstances, but had trials not been on the receiving end of such torment then it's conceivable that upgraded players would have greater reason to stick around. The 2 weeks of free gold was far from anything special in terms of numbers, yet a clear sign of how things can click if allowed to.

[scriptless]

This thread is about attracting new players. And windows 8 would make a great start and alternative to paying to maybe be added to Steam or any other form of advertisment. You have 3 major competitors in the PC world... Windows, Mac, and Linux.. we already have Mac covered with the App Store (but not for pc's I dont think?) there is nothing in the lines of Windows except a website.. and same with Linux (until Android release) because yes, Andriod's are based off the Linux Kernal.

The point is you want Trials to be F2P... and instead of screwing them over you now want those of us who pay for graal to get nothing extra. You want US to be screwed for paying $60+ a year.. thanks man you really care about us.. We can't even start from scratch and work on Classic (GTA) ourselves.. that would be like saying I want to make Era so lets clone it.. it would never be released.. You wont develop anything new yet you wont let us do it.. you took something historic and screwed ALL OF US.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I think you're missing the point here. The purpose of this thread appears to be aimed towards attracting a new audience, you'd played through on an account which was upgraded prior to visiting Classic.

Actually I upgraded just to be able to play Classic on a second account since I had already completed ALL quest's on my lifetime account.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

In the case of Classic, those new players who do try the game tend to have had their 5 hours "free time" used up elsewhere, even on servers where observer mode is disabled.

Those are infact not "new" new players but old new players who probably had accounts created prior to the release of Classic. Not really a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

It's important to consider that Classic is supposed to revolve strongly around Questing and Competition, not things like grinding or leveling up stats.

Yeah I understand that but we (everyone on Graal) completed ALL of the quests prior to it's release with promises that there would be no further updates to Classic and that you gave up on Graal why should we play with an attitude like that?

Originally Posted by ffcmike

In terms of competition, we haven't allowed trials into events because of the disruption observer mode would cause, there isn't even a way to determine a trial's remaining "free time". Then there's the trading card game, which tends to last more than 5 minutes, which if you're a trial makes it difficult to avoid entering OM mid game.
Even if I were to release a mini-game or two as a form of grinding as part an economy, trials would still end up prohibited.

Trials aren't suspose to be allowed into event's as it is.. Congratulations on following the rules And correct me if I am wrong but the mines are located south of the bridge "Mine Entry West". So even if the "map restriction" for Trials were implimented and eliminating the Observer Mode that your throwing a huge fit about trials would be able to do the first quest, get card's and play with others, mine (maybe craft things or buy things or potential for a side quest aside from the main storyline?).

Originally Posted by ffcmike

The one thing most people seem to agree on is that players attract players, and I know other servers have different circumstances, but had trials not been on the receiving end of such torment then it's conceivable that upgraded players would have greater reason to stick around. The 2 weeks of free gold was far from anything special in terms of numbers, yet a clear sign of how things can click if allowed to.

Yeah but we beat Classic, saw the end credits and everything. We have to move on to a server whom cares about those of us that do pay for graal. We pay, we deserve more then those who do not pay.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Those are infact not "new" new players but old new players who probably had accounts created prior to the release of Classic. Not really a fair comparison.

Kind of a bold statement there to say that every new player that tries Classic isn't actually new, no? I know that at least in the case of UN, we do get a few new players who hear about us from iPhone classic, even a very few that pay the subscription price and stick.

Originally Posted by scriptless

We pay, we deserve more then those who do not pay.

Nobody is arguing against that, but the difference has to be within reason. Right now, on the servers that weren't lucky/smart enough to jump in with Zod and Era and get observer mode removed, the people who pay or have paid a long time ago get to play the game normally. Those who don't pay have to deal with a restriction that makes the game essentially unplayable. The game is only fun with players. And obviously, the more players there are, the more chance there is that some of them decide to pay.

Originally Posted by scriptless

We have to move on to a server whom cares about those of us that do pay for graal.

Again speaking from UN's perspective, if we were given any opportunity to set up some sort of system that allowed us to either give paying players some sort of a bonus or force some more reasonable restrictions on trials in exchange for the removal of observer mode, I would start work on it immediately. Got plenty of ideas that I think could work, if anyone cared would list them! We'll never be allowed to do this though because we don't have the trust of management, and we'll never get that trust because management isn't interested in having any sort of relationship with us.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

Kind of a bold statement there to say that every new player that tries Classic isn't actually new, no? I know that at least in the case of UN, we do get a few new players who hear about us from iPhone classic, even a very few that pay the subscription price and stick.



Nobody is arguing against that, but the difference has to be within reason. Right now, on the servers that weren't lucky/smart enough to jump in with Zod and Era and get observer mode removed, the people who pay or have paid a long time ago get to play the game normally. Those who don't pay have to deal with a restriction that makes the game essentially unplayable. The game is only fun with players. And obviously, the more players there are, the more chance there is that some of them decide to pay.


Again speaking from UN's perspective, if we were given any opportunity to set up some sort of system that allowed us to either give paying players some sort of a bonus or force some more reasonable restrictions on trials in exchange for the removal of observer mode, I would start work on it immediately. Got plenty of ideas that I think could work, if anyone cared would list them! We'll never be allowed to do this though because we don't have the trust of management, and we'll never get that trust because management isn't interested in having any sort of relationship with us.

Well, talking to thor a week or 2 ago.. maybe even 3.. he said they were offered OBS to be removed.. but they had to block the bridge leading to the north side of the map off from trials.. talking a little longer he changed his story to no it was not an offer it was a for sure thing being forced down there throats..

Once iZone is on PC Graal I would expect since it's already a Gold server that incentive to upgrade to gold would be lessened by the desire to actually upgrade due to higher player counts. First zone, then Era.. not sure on Classic since there almost 2 completely different projects.. that would push Era up to Gold with Zone.. and if Tig ever worked on iGK it would too be Gold already.. so that would put your top 3 servers into Gold.. incentive to actually upgrade.

You also failed to mention GK doesnt have OBS mode too.. its not just Era and Zodiac and GK isn't thriving like everyone claims would happen with removal of OBS mode.. -_- so your gonna need a stronger argument then just remove obs mode.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by scriptless

You also failed to mention GK doesnt have OBS mode too.. its not just Era and Zodiac and GK isn't thriving like everyone claims would happen with removal of OBS mode.. -_- so your gonna need a stronger argument then just remove obs mode.

UN had a pretty obvious player count increase when we had the two weeks of free gold. One player even made ET lol, though he then quit when he went back to being a trial.

GK is hurt by being on the Gold list. The Classic servers have a base of players with Classic accounts. Not many people are willing to pay for Gold, so GK doesn't have a huge base of players with Gold accounts. Players attract players. If I see a list of servers, I'm most like to go on the ones that have people on them before I go on those that have few, esp when it's obvious before you even log in you are going to have to pay to play them properly.

Edit:
Also, you seem to think that people would upgrade if Era and Zod were made into Gold servers. I think it's far more likely Classic players from those servers would just quit. If UN was made into a Gold server I absolutely wouldn't play it anymore.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

UN had a pretty obvious player count increase when we had the two weeks of free gold. One player even made ET lol, though he then quit when he went back to being a trial.

GK is hurt by being on the Gold list. The Classic servers have a base of players with Classic accounts. Not many people are willing to pay for Gold, so GK doesn't have a huge base of players with Gold accounts. Players attract players. If I see a list of servers, I'm most like to go on the ones that have people on them before I go on those that have few, esp when it's obvious before you even log in you are going to have to pay to play them properly.

Edit:
Also, you seem to think that people would upgrade if Era and Zod were made into Gold servers. I think it's far more likely Classic players from those servers would just quit. If UN was made into a Gold server I absolutely wouldn't play it anymore.

oh no.. i think if era merged with iEra and became a gold server that people would upgrade.. BIG difference there (about 1200 difference)..

also GK is full blown unrestricted with the exception of Levels (and you can't join a kingdom)... which most people don't use kingdoms.. and it's extreamly hard for a trial to achieve level 10 on there own.. like jaw dropping hard without someone power leveling you. while lifetime from being playerworld rather then gold would help it wouldnt help it enough to lets say even equal UN.. and it would have by far less restrictions then UN.. maybe you could explain that?

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by scriptless

oh no.. i think if era merged with iEra and became a gold server that people would upgrade.. BIG difference there (about 1200 difference)..

also GK is full blown unrestricted with the exception of Levels (and you can't join a kingdom)... which most people don't use kingdoms.. and it's extreamly hard for a trial to achieve level 10 on there own.. like jaw dropping hard without someone power leveling you. while lifetime from being playerworld rather then gold would help it wouldnt help it enough to lets say even equal UN.. and it would have by far less restrictions then UN.. maybe you could explain that?

That GK is just poorly designed? And? Nowhere did I say that having a quality server isn't also important to the player count.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

The point is you want Trials to be F2P... and instead of screwing them over you now want those of us who pay for graal to get nothing extra. You want US to be screwed for paying $60+ a year.. thanks man you really care about us..

I've scripted roughly 95% of the server from scratch, which also consists almost entirely of custom scripted systems, have been working on it non-stop for 5 and a half years (as has Racil), with over 13,000 hours online time. If that's not enough for you, I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by scriptless

We can't even start from scratch and work on Classic (GTA) ourselves.. that would be like saying I want to make Era so lets clone it.. it would never be released.. You wont develop anything new yet you wont let us do it.. you took something historic and screwed ALL OF US.

I have never refused anybody the opportunity to develop who had provided significant good & useful examples of what they're capable of (providing a link to someone else's code threads saying that you understand how it works doesn't cut it for me), and didn't have a recent ban/corruption history. I'd like nothing more than to get back to working on Quests in order to further the storyline and to expand the world, but unfortunately there are fundamental problems (some ofwhich beyond our control) which render efforts futile.

Originally Posted by scriptless

Actually I upgraded just to be able to play Classic on a second account since I had already completed ALL quest's on my lifetime account.

I hope you understand that the quests are not necessarily aimed at those who have already established themself on Graal, nor are they in any way intended to keep players constantly occupied. Their primary function is to provide a sense of purpose and direction to legitimately new players.

Originally Posted by scriptless

Those are infact not "new" new players but old new players who probably had accounts created prior to the release of Classic. Not really a fair comparison.

You can usually tell roughly how new/old a trial is by their account name, guests use their PCID, whereas Graal###### accounts are incremented each time an account is created. I observe this happening with both older and fresh trial accounts.

Originally Posted by scriptless

Yeah I understand that but we (everyone on Graal) completed ALL of the quests prior to it's release with promises that there would be no further updates to Classic and that you gave up on Graal why should we play with an attitude like that?

I don't blame you for not playing, I wouldn't expect anybody to be playing with no hope of future updates and there already being hardly any players. But then why should we, the developers, continue voluntarily putting in so much effort, as we have done for a very long time as it is, when on top of having restrictions that conflict our aims (something we've already tried hard to get by with), we've been lied to and deceived for the last 14 months?

Do you think you'd still be motivated under the same circumstances?

Originally Posted by scriptless

Trials aren't suspose to be allowed into event's as it is.. Congratulations on following the rules

I have never seen any documentation explaining that trials aren't allowed to play events on PlayerWorlds, only Gold servers (where observer mode is removed). Nor was it brought to staff's attention that they shouldn't be allowed in July 2007 when observer mode was implemented (I happened to be staff at the time).

As far as I know the exclusion of trials from events has always been an indirect consequence of observer mode, rather than a deliberate restriction.
This is the closest acknowledgement of the problem I'm aware of:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...87#post1338487

Originally Posted by scriptless

And correct me if I am wrong but the mines are located south of the bridge "Mine Entry West". So even if the "map restriction" for Trials were implimented and eliminating the Observer Mode that your throwing a huge fit about trials would be able to do the first quest, get card's and play with others, mine (maybe craft things or buy things or potential for a side quest aside from the main storyline?).

That would be an even more watered-down experience than at present.

Originally Posted by scriptless

Yeah but we beat Classic, saw the end credits and everything. We have to move on to a server whom cares about those of us that do pay for graal. We pay, we deserve more then those who do not pay.

It's been 5 and a half years since the ability to purchase lifetime accounts was removed, Classic had already reached a very low point in playercount by 2009, having previously seen its average playercount be cut in half every 2 years since P2P was implemented.

Thus it was decided (and not just by myself) to try something new, to make the server more coherent, to give it a higher proportion of quality, so that it could eventually at least be capable of hooking new players. I have sympathy for those few who have paid money to play Classic, but given the choice, I'm sure most would feel the money was better spent if they were able to regularly play events and card games with trials.

Also keep in mind that PlayerWorld developers do not get a cut of such paid money, it's never been an intention of mine, but if it were the case I'm sure things would be much different across all of Graal.

Originally Posted by scriptless

Well, talking to thor a week or 2 ago.. maybe even 3.. he said they were offered OBS to be removed.. but they had to block the bridge leading to the north side of the map off from trials.. talking a little longer he changed his story to no it was not an offer it was a for sure thing being forced down there throats..

This is actually how it happened, not a change of story. Initially I thought it was a suggestion, and so I made a counter-suggestion, then later I was told this is the format it will be. Bell can verify that.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I've scripted roughly 95% of the server from scratch, which also consists almost entirely of custom scripted systems, have been working on it non-stop for 5 and a half years (as has Racil), with over 13,000 hours online time. If that's not enough for you, I'm sorry.


I have never refused anybody the opportunity to develop who had provided significant good & useful examples of what they're capable of (providing a link to someone else's code threads saying that you understand how it works doesn't cut it for me), and didn't have a recent ban/corruption history. I'd like nothing more than to get back to working on Quests in order to further the storyline and to expand the world, but unfortunately there are fundamental problems (some ofwhich beyond our control) which render efforts futile.


I hope you understand that the quests are not necessarily aimed at those who have already established themself on Graal, nor are they in any way intended to keep players constantly occupied. Their primary function is to provide a sense of purpose and direction to legitimately new players.


You can usually tell roughly how new/old a trial is by their account name, guests use their PCID, whereas Graal###### accounts are incremented each time an account is created. I observe this happening with both older and fresh trial accounts.


I don't blame you for not playing, I wouldn't expect anybody to be playing with no hope of future updates and there already being hardly any players. But then why should we, the developers, continue voluntarily putting in so much effort, as we have done for a very long time as it is, when on top of having restrictions that conflict our aims (something we've already tried hard to get by with), we've been lied to and deceived for the last 14 months?

Do you think you'd still be motivated under the same circumstances?


I have never seen any documentation explaining that trials aren't allowed to play events on PlayerWorlds, only Gold servers (where observer mode is removed). Nor was it brought to staff's attention that they shouldn't be allowed in July 2007 when observer mode was implemented (I happened to be staff at the time).

As far as I know the exclusion of trials from events has always been an indirect consequence of observer mode, rather than a deliberate restriction.
This is the closest acknowledgement of the problem I'm aware of:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...87#post1338487



That would be an even more watered-down experience than at present.



It's been 5 and a half years since the ability to purchase lifetime accounts was removed, Classic had already reached a very low point in playercount by 2009, having previously seen its average playercount be cut in half every 2 years since P2P was implemented.

Thus it was decided (and not just by myself) to try something new, to make the server more coherent, to give it a higher proportion of quality, so that it could eventually at least be capable of hooking new players. I have sympathy for those few who have paid money to play Classic, but given the choice, I'm sure most would feel the money was better spent if they were able to regularly play events and card games with trials.

Also keep in mind that PlayerWorld developers do not get a cut of such paid money, it's never been an intention of mine, but if it were the case I'm sure things would be much different across all of Graal.


This is actually how it happened, not a change of story. Initially I thought it was a suggestion, and so I made a counter-suggestion, then later I was told this is the format it will be. Bell can verify that.

Notice URL:
http://graalonline.com/playerworlds/stores/signup

And also from the page before that, where I got the url from the sentence the link was actually from.

Without Gold membership, you can only play 5 hours per month. To know other advantages you have with Gold membership, go to this page. In order to play more, you have to subscribe to graalonline.

And yes I would still be motivated.. I offered to assist developing and you wouldn't even let me prove myself.

Also to whom ever neg repped me keep it comming im not going into red neg anytime soon idiots.. however I will be neg repping alot of people from each of my accounts in return

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Notice URL:
http://graalonline.com/playerworlds/stores/signup

And also from the page before that, where I got the url from the sentence the link was actually from.

That page is for Zone, if I changed the url to say Kingdoms instead of PlayerWorlds it would still work:
http://graalonline.com/kingdoms/stores/signup

Graal Skills too (lol):

http://graalonline.com/skills/stores/signup

Originally Posted by scriptless

And yes I would still be motivated..

It didn't seem like you were motivated to get much done to help Npulse get off the ground.
Looking back, I think it's fair to say the only server Managers that have been in a similar predicament within the modern era of Graal are Ziro and Crow, who both cited observer mode as a stumbling block to their efforts.

Originally Posted by scriptless

I offered to assist developing and you wouldn't even let me prove myself.

I asked you multiple times to provide me some examples to show what you're capable of, which you not only failed to produce, but reacted in such a way that suggested it was your divine right to develop on the server.
Maybe this is an inconvenient truth, but I'm very strict with the manner in-which things are coded (very abstract & compartmentalized), so as to avoid similar problems/conflicts to what Classic experienced throughout the pre-wipe years.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

That page is for Zone, if I changed the url to say Kingdoms instead of PlayerWorlds it would still work:
http://graalonline.com/kingdoms/stores/signup

Graal Skills too (lol):

http://graalonline.com/skills/stores/signup


It didn't seem like you were motivated to get much done to help Npulse get off the ground.
Looking back, I think it's fair to say the only server Managers that have been in a similar predicament within the modern era of Graal are Ziro and Crow, who both cited observer mode as a stumbling block to their efforts.


I asked you multiple times to provide me some examples to show what you're capable of, which you not only failed to produce, but reacted in such a way that suggested it was your divine right to develop on the server.
Maybe this is an inconvenient truth, but I'm very strict with the manner in-which things are coded (very abstract & compartmentalized), so as to avoid similar problems/conflicts to what Classic experienced throughout the pre-wipe years.

It may be more aimed at Zone, but it doesn't specifically say it.. the average person knowing nothing of graal would assume it ment any server..

No I worked hard to help N-Pulse, they removed me because they didn't like me at the time. For what ever reason.

And you asked me that the first time I talked to you when I wasn't able to provide you any work and told you I would come up with examples. The next time we talked you said not to even bother.. the 3rd time we talked about it you said you wernt even interested in letting people work for you or some stupid reason.. after i had put alot of work into making examples to show you.. you treated me like **** just like you treat anyone else.. alot of people have told me how you treat them and use the word "douche" when reffering to you when i stood up for you anyways.. but i can see there right you may have put 5 years into helping Classic.. i have been helping multiple servers for over 8 years.. well more then your stupid 13,000 hours

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

No I worked hard to help N-Pulse, they removed me because they didn't like me at the time. For what ever reason.

That's not what you told me at the time.

Originally Posted by scriptless

And you asked me that the first time I talked to you when I wasn't able to provide you any work and told you I would come up with examples.

You gave me a story about how your account name is 'scriptless' because you never have examples of previous code, then eventually showed me some of FP4's script threads with the argument "I understand how this stuff works", which anyone could do.

Originally Posted by scriptless

The next time we talked you said not to even bother..

This is correct, I said this because of the way you reacted the first time, which in fairness, you later admitted was out of order and apologized.

Originally Posted by scriptless

the 3rd time we talked about it you said you wernt even interested in letting people work for you or some stupid reason..

I have no idea what you're talking about now, feel free to elaborate.

Originally Posted by scriptless

after i had put alot of work into making examples to show you.. you treated me like ****

You can ask Racil or WhiteDragon, I was looking specifically for someone who could lend a hand rescripting and creating new GC droppables, something which takes a little understanding but not a huge amount. If somebody would have shown examples proving they know what they're doing with their code, I'd have been quite keen to ask for their help on this.

Originally Posted by scriptless

just like you treat anyone else.. alot of people have told me how you treat them and use the word "douche" when reffering to you when i stood up for you anyways..

I wouldn't be surprised, when Classic launched a lot of people seemed to think it would be an easy, quick, effortless staff position on a hyped server. Then they showed resent once they realised they need to familiarise themself with the events if they want to become a GC, familiarise themself with Quests if they want to become a GH, avoid massing insults to players if they want to become a GP, all reasonable examples that I wish I was joking about but am not.

Originally Posted by scriptless

i have been helping multiple servers for over 8 years.. well more then your stupid 13,000 hours

I would like to see some evidence for it.

[scriptless]

I specifically linked you to MY post's not FP4's dont try and pull that **** on me. I also mentioned you could look at 90% of my threads ive started and see more examples.

While yes I said my name was scriptless because I do not save scripts to use as examples.. there on the forums but I never use the same script twice.. im always improving it..

The 3rd time we spoke I asked if you were interested in letting me help.. I don't have the pm logs on this pc.. im wondering if they were on my other hard drive before it crashed ot the pc down stairs that needs a power supply. i can check sometime in the next week or so on the pc down stairs (i know i asked you at least once on that one)..

but you basically said that i was wasting your time by asking you if you would be willing to let me prove yourself. im thinking the context was more twards just show me.. but im pretty sure you said at some point that because of my posts on the forums you didnt find me mature enough or something along the lines of not getting along with some people on the forums.. i do recall some of the details just not all of them.

As for what server's i've helped on sure I can provide you a list but since im nto the manager of them and the managers just gave up and stopped paying for them alot of them are not around anymore.

I've helped script on some of these servers since about 2003/2004:
n-pulse
zemi
graal apocalypse
delteria
val
esteria
Draenin's server
and a bunch of other UC servers that I cant think of nor can i load the rc to look them up (windows 8 wont let me use external rc)..

any server that needs my help.. any person that needs assistant i lend a hand.. im not a jerk like you.. i actually care about the community..

Ive helped debug scripts on Era, GK, not as staff but over AIM/Skype with people who worked there and couldnt figure stuff out.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

I specifically linked you to MY post's not FP4's dont try and pull that **** on me. I also mentioned you could look at 90% of my threads ive started and see more examples.

While yes I said my name was scriptless because I do not save scripts to use as examples.. there on the forums but I never use the same script twice.. im always improving it..

The 3rd time we spoke I asked if you were interested in letting me help.. I don't have the pm logs on this pc.. im wondering if they were on my other hard drive before it crashed ot the pc down stairs that needs a power supply. i can check sometime in the next week or so on the pc down stairs (i know i asked you at least once on that one)..

but you basically said that i was wasting your time by asking you if you would be willing to let me prove yourself. im thinking the context was more twards just show me.. but im pretty sure you said at some point that because of my posts on the forums you didnt find me mature enough or something along the lines of not getting along with some people on the forums.. i do recall some of the details just not all of them.

I think I'll avoid getting into a pantomime style "oh yes you did, oh no I didn't" argument.

Originally Posted by scriptless

As for what server's i've helped on sure I can provide you a list but since im nto the manager of them and the managers just gave up and stopped paying for them alot of them are not around anymore.

I've helped script on some of these servers since about 2003/2004:
n-pulse
zemi
graal apocalypse
delteria
val
esteria
Draenin's server
and a bunch of other UC servers that I cant think of nor can i load the rc to look them up (windows 8 wont let me use external rc)..

I imagine if you'd contributed scripting help to so many different servers, it would have been very handy to keep some type of script portfolio to look back on.

Originally Posted by scriptless

any server that needs my help.. any person that needs assistant i lend a hand.. im not a jerk like you.. i actually care about the community..

Ive helped debug scripts on Era, GK, not as staff but over AIM/Skype with people who worked there and couldnt figure stuff out.

Well that's odd, at first you told me Npulse were wasting your time, and you'd like to work on Classic because it's exactly the same as what you'd come up with anyway.

And for the record, although I may not actively go out of my way to help others in the manner some other commendable developers do, I've still provided countless people with scripting help, I've even tried to help you in a thread you created in the scripting forums.

[xXziroXx]

TO BE FAIR, I WAS ALSO REJECTED BY THIS THOR CHARACTER

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Well that's odd, at first you told me Npulse were wasting your time, and you'd like to work on Classic because it's exactly the same as what you'd come up with anyway.

And for the record, although I may not actively go out of my way to help others in the manner some other commendable developers do, I've still provided countless people with scripting help, I've even tried to help you in a thread you created in the scripting forums.

Yes N-Pulse was wasting my time and I was trying to move to Classic to work.. but I never quit.. I never gave up. I kept working. And I would have been more then capable of working 2 projects at the time and still am (actually helping 3 servers at the moment).

As for keeping them to look back on? Why? I can do a forum search and see bit's n' peices of my scripts, as well as others that can help accomplish my goals. And yes you have tried to help in a threat or 2, do you want a cookie?

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

TO BE FAIR, I WAS ALSO REJECTED BY THIS THOR CHARACTER

Like I mentioned, I am not the only one that thinks hes a jerk. He obviously has no care for the players of Graal anymore.. thats why he makes these comments like "Graal doesn't deserve Classic".. just because he has personal problems with Stefan. So hes taking it out on ALL of us.

And ziro, we all know your a good scripter. Thor just doesn't want anyone working on Classic's scripts. I believe he even said so a year or 2 ago when I was talking to him about it. Even when I proposed to help him without RC, without seeing the scripts. He was just very unreasonable.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Like I mentioned, I am not the only one that thinks hes a jerk. He obviously has no care for the players of Graal anymore.. thats why he makes these comments like "Graal doesn't deserve Classic".. just because he has personal problems with Stefan. So hes taking it out on ALL of us.

And ziro, we all know your a good scripter. Thor just doesn't want anyone working on Classic's scripts. I believe he even said so a year or 2 ago when I was talking to him about it. Even when I proposed to help him without RC, without seeing the scripts. He was just very unreasonable.

My last post was meant to be super hardcore. Really. By the way, any self respecting server manager with any kind of development skills will be a jerk. It's not neccessarily a bad thing. It's one of the traits you're required to have in order to be able to deal with the horde of idiotic people out there.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

My last post was meant to be super hardcore. Really. By the way, any self respecting server manager with any kind of development skills will be a jerk. It's not neccessarily a bad thing. It's one of the traits you're required to have in order to be able to deal with the horde of idiotic people out there.

Id rather see someone whom is professional rather then a jerk.

[cptmetal]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Id rather see someone whom is professional rather then a jerk.

read:

Not being a pushover

instead of "jerk"

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Like I mentioned, I am not the only one that thinks hes a jerk. He obviously has no care for the players of Graal anymore.. thats why he makes these comments like "Graal doesn't deserve Classic".. just because he has personal problems with Stefan. So hes taking it out on ALL of us.

That's not at all what I said or implied, what I said was directed at one particular person, which when you consider how pitifully few positive changes have been made to PC Graal in so many years now, I don't think many here could argue with in the case of any remade server. Seems to me that you're distorting the truth to suit your argument.

Originally Posted by scriptless

And ziro, we all know your a good scripter. Thor just doesn't want anyone working on Classic's scripts.

It was quite obvious Ziro wasn't being fully serious, you're also forgetting that I'd hired Kevin to help with scripting, twice. And for what it's worth, most of the staff with an RC plus a basic knowledge of scripting were given read rights to almost all code, with write rights for testing.

Originally Posted by scriptless

And yes you have tried to help in a threat or 2, do you want a cookie?

Ha ha, yeah I'm a jerk.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Screw it. See attachment. You said Stefan but you insisted that the rest of us don't matter as long as your sticking it to stefan pretty much.

That's a pretty extreme way to interpret it, just because I feel that the owner(s) of Graal doesn't deserve to have a remade PC server visible on their list, doesn't mean I don't want anything more than players enjoying the game. The incredible effort made up to now was despite that.

Originally Posted by scriptless

Lucky for me this also contains the 3rd time we spoke about scripting position. Where you pushed me off to WD and just ignored me after that. I showed you an example of a script and you said you didn't need that kind of script.. Which is besides the point.. the point was to show you the progression of my scripting skills.. you really want to start an argument here on this thread completely off subject then do it.. go for it.

You're right about one thing, it was for the sake of an example and I'll admit I should have been more open to seeing it.
I did however talk to WhiteDragon, who as I'm uneducated with other languages I've asked for advise regarding multiple potential coders. Irrespective of that we both noticed some posts you'd been making here, including within the scripting forum towards someone that tried to help you, and decided it would be best to stay clear.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Yeah you won't develop new content for the players because you hate the owners.. way to respect us dude.. way to respect us.. we pay for graal the owenrs do not.. and you wont even give us any new content.. you completely decided to halt al actions.. to protest thigns that havent even happened yet... ::applauds you::

So to be clear, you are upset that he won't volunteer his time to make more content for a server that has really no chance of any sort of growth because Graal's ridiculous trial restrictions. You think he should do so because you are paying money to people who he quite justifiably hates. Rightttttttt.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Yeah you won't develop new content for the players because you hate the owners.. way to respect us dude.. way to respect us.. we pay for graal the owenrs do not.. and you wont even give us any new content.. you completely decided to halt al actions.. to protest thigns that havent even happened yet... ::applauds you::

It's not because I hate the owners. It's because their policies are diabolical, attempts that were made over a long period of time to partially rectify that turned out to be under a false pretense, meanwhile our best efforts to press ahead with the server anyway have simply not been enough. I'm not saying that I shouldn't take any of the responsibility for that, but even if there weren't the mistakes that had been made, there'd still be the same big unavoidable problem.
Who said anything about a protest?

Tell you what though, if you pay us instead I'll see what we can come up with.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

No I am upset that he is convincing others and not allowing those of us who want to volunteer out time. Lets assume someone decides they want to revive Classic.. they can't because it already exists.. He doesn't want to develop for Classic anymore.. read the whole PM history in the previous post.. it's proof enough. Ask Racil... they decided what, 3 ? 4? weeks ago that they gave up on Classic. Since they gave up give us a chance to do something. I know he put alot of hard work into it.. take it down and let us start from scratch then.. anything at this point is more productive then his counter productive attitude.

Ok then I guess I shall be demanding my chance to Manage the observer mode-less PC Zone, then maybe I can port all of Classic to it and rename it.

In all seriousness if I thought there was someone capable of turning things around despite the diabolical restrictions, majority of staff having lost hope and left, there being no hype or momentum, and a future restriction which could likely break the server, I would hand it over. The likelihood is that another push is just going to be a repeat of the same cycle but in miniature.

Originally Posted by scriptless

UN has those restrictions too.. they seem to be doing fine..

UN has similar problems when it comes to legitimate new players becoming hooked on the game. It was also only a couple of years ago when it had 100 players.

Regardless, any new/remade server in this age of Graal is having to build a new community. It's not easy to prize players away from where they may have had several years of prior investment.

Originally Posted by scriptless

you want paid ? thats completely fine.. i got a $2000 bankroll that I was handing out gold so players could play YOUR server prove to me that you actually give 2 shits and make a quest.. if i dont come thru with my end and donate you money then quit developing

That's easy for someone to say who doesn't have much to show for their time as a developer anyway.

Originally Posted by scriptless

but dont you dare treat us like **** becasue you have beef with the owners..

I would like to see you develop on a server for 5 and a half years, then be accused of treating players like **** the minute you feel efforts are in vain.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by scriptless

Only 5 years? I have been putting my all into servers for over 8-10 years. I may not have anything to show for it because Managers stopped flipping the bill once all there other staff left.. its hard to keep a server owner interested when it's just 2 staff..

Didn't you say you worked on GK in the not too distant past?
I've got some spare gelats, I'll upgrade to Gold and play some of the content that you've made.

Originally Posted by scriptless

and you have no trial restrictions to worry about.. i have said i have taken care of that problem by handing out FREE GOLD... are you retarded or somethign? i solved that problem.. offered to pay you and your still comming up with excuses why you wont do anything nice for those of us who still pay for gaal.. u know people even pay for gold just to IDLE on gk? right.. you have hurt any chance your server has of attracting new.. or even old players.. who are pissed that you nerfed there questing status.. and not given them any new content.

Oh and btw these reps are killing me:

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Oh and btw these reps are killing me:

lol, just noticed i got some too!

[Godoco]

Originally Posted by blackbeltben

Idea 2

Windows 8 app Store
For those who do not have Windows 8, It's pretty cool. There is an App store, much like the Apple app store, where you can buy and download games. And a lot of stuff on there is free.
I have explored the app store front and back, and there really isn't an good online games on there. If Stefan puts the download on there soon, I guarantee people will download it in a heart beat.

RC isnt even on Windows 8 yet..

[xXziroXx]

scriptless showing his true nature in this thread, real class act

[Tricxta]

Originally Posted by Godoco

RC isnt even on Windows 8 yet..

What does that have to do with anything? Btw it never will be, you'll be forced to use client rc.

[Godoco]

Originally Posted by Tricxta

What does that have to do with anything? Btw it never will be, you'll be forced to use client rc.

He told me over iZone RC that he would be working on it in the coming weeks.

[Remonq]

Guys, this is exactly how playercount is going to be boosted. Good Job.