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[Admins]

Darklux all we were doing is making Graal successful, now we have each day 3000 players online at the same time when three years ago it was only 300-400. The PC Graal version is currently lagging a little bit behind the developments in the mobile space, but it's not we are standing still. Many people on the forums don't understand that we will not get tons of players just because we reduce the price a little bit. The observer mode is needed right now to justify the playerworld gold subscription since we cannot check each day if the servers are correctly scripted or so and prices are fair. So there needs to be a "hard" limit somewhere (level cap on Zodiac) or observer mode. At some point we can transform all servers to free-to-play mode but we don't have the tools in-place right now (built-in customization shop and such stuff).

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Darklux all we were doing is making Graal successful, now we have each day 3000 players online at the same time when three years ago it was only 300-400. The PC Graal version is currently lagging a little bit behind the developments in the mobile space, but it's not we are standing still. Many people on the forums don't understand that we will not get tons of players just because we reduce the price a little bit. The observer mode is needed right now to justify the playerworld gold subscription since we cannot check each day if the servers are correctly scripted or so and prices are fair. So there needs to be a "hard" limit somewhere (level cap on Zodiac) or observer mode. At some point we can transform all servers to free-to-play mode but we don't have the tools in-place right now (built-in customization shop and such stuff).

Thank you for at least addressing the issue. Though I still stand by the argument that observer mode is much more than a restriction, and is indirectly having a highly detrimental affect on the ability for trial's to properly experience the game and therefore want to upgrade. As for the issue of pricing and security it would be good to know exactly what is expected, I would assume Classic already has a high level of scripted security and that planned prices are already very conservative.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The observer mode is needed right now to justify the playerworld gold subscription since we cannot check each day if the servers are correctly scripted or so and prices are fair. So there needs to be a "hard" limit somewhere (level cap on Zodiac) or observer mode.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I still stand by the argument that observer mode is much more than a restriction, and is indirectly having a highly detrimental affect on the ability for trial's to properly experience the game and therefore want to upgrade.

To further iterate my point, you simply cannot compare a limitation which allows trials to experience the game but at a disadvantage, with something which causes so much bugs and/or disruption that staff have no choice but to prevent trials from participating with events, trials automatically lose if entering observer mode while sparring or playing something like Classic's trading card game (which lasts long enough for it to be hard to avoid), or are unable to progress within a quest due to a bug directly caused by observer mode.

I agree that obtaining a higher playercount is not as simple an issue as just lowering the price by itself, but observer mode is a game killer, it's like saying "upgrade to not have a terrible experience" or a joke I used to say as a kid "pay me £5 and I won't beat you up".

Originally Posted by Stefan

At some point we can transform all servers to free-to-play mode but we don't have the tools in-place right now (built-in customization shop and such stuff).

While it is good to know you have this intention, server staff are not asking you to transform these servers yourself, they are asking you to help them transform their servers themself. For Classic we have our own plans that I have emailed to you for how we can accomplish a sustainable free to play environment, and so I'd like to know what level of possibility exists for it to go ahead, or what (if any) changes would be needed.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Darklux all we were doing is making Graal successful, now we have each day 3000 players online at the same time when three years ago it was only 300-400. The PC Graal version is currently lagging a little bit behind the developments in the mobile space, but it's not we are standing still. Many people on the forums don't understand that we will not get tons of players just because we reduce the price a little bit.

It's really great of you to finally hold a dialogue with us. The lack of communication between Eurocenter and us players/developers is what's been fueling our anger the most. I still think we've been ignored a little too much though, especially on important matters such as:

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...hp?t=134266660

Originally Posted by Stefan

The observer mode is needed right now to justify the playerworld gold subscription since we cannot check each day if the servers are correctly scripted or so and prices are fair. So there needs to be a "hard" limit somewhere (level cap on Zodiac) or observer mode. At some point we can transform all servers to free-to-play mode but we don't have the tools in-place right now (built-in customization shop and such stuff).

When Maloria became Classic around a year ago, I tried for the longest time to get you to remove observer mode for us, which you flat out denied. We had trial limitations on events, level cap, joining nations, item limits and several minor things. Unholy Nation have been trying to please you in order to have it removed as well, and they've seemingly been largely ignored too.


You also seem to take months to reply to PM's and emails about things that ONLY you are able to be of assistance of, which is just too long.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Unholy Nation have been trying to please you in order to have it removed as well, and they've seemingly been largely ignored too.

To put things into perspective, Zone happens to have observer mode removed, and yet the argument can be made that as a result of its essentially dead state, UN, Val, and even a UC Classic are contributing more to Graal.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Darklux all we were doing is making Graal successful, now we have each day 3000 players online at the same time when three years ago it was only 300-400. The PC Graal version is currently lagging a little bit behind the developments in the mobile space, but it's not we are standing still. Many people on the forums don't understand that we will not get tons of players just because we reduce the price a little bit. The observer mode is needed right now to justify the playerworld gold subscription since we cannot check each day if the servers are correctly scripted or so and prices are fair. So there needs to be a "hard" limit somewhere (level cap on Zodiac) or observer mode. At some point we can transform all servers to free-to-play mode but we don't have the tools in-place right now (built-in customization shop and such stuff).

Disagree with the business model here, but guessing probably pretty pointless to argue. Thanks for responding to this though, at least I now have a post to link people to when they ask me 100x a day on UN when I'm going to make a gelat shop so we have observer mode removed.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Many people on the forums don't understand that we will not get tons of players just because we reduce the price a little bit. The observer mode is needed right now to justify the playerworld gold subscription since we cannot check each day if the servers are correctly scripted or so and prices are fair.

That's kind of the point though, they shouldn't cost anything and there is nothing to justify buying a gold subscription to begin with right now. In the past we had free servers and then exclusive "gold" or "p2p" servers like G2k1. Even after Graal went full p2p we still had lifetime Classic accounts being offered if you bought Graal once, which is a much more fair and correct model than what's being offered today.

Graal used to be very special in the past, but today it's losing its charm. iClassic and iEra work well both because they're on a fresh platform and because it's very cheap (or even free) to play. Ever since you released Graal v5 we were going downhill, and a lot of us were saying that Graal would die if nothing were to happen. Releasing iClassic is the best thing that's happened to Graal since 2006 and we now have players. Use this new momentum to propel the "real" PC Graal forward as well. Many players on iClassic have some interest in playing what we call "PC Graal" or developing for it but don't know where to begin nor do they want to shell out money just to develop for you.

Nowadays many multiplayer games are either going for a "pay once and play forever" model or completely F2P with various levels of microtransaction. On games like League of Legends (a very successful and popular F2P game) microtransactions effect balance, while games like Dota 2 (currently in closed beta but extremely popular, especially in e-sports) will be F2P and only have aesthetic microtransactions. My point is that both the modern and future of gaming relies on either of these models, no longer does it rely on buying limited subscriptions and renewing them.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

To put things into perspective, Zone happens to have observer mode removed, and yet the argument can be made that as a result of its essentially dead state, UN, Val, and even a UC Classic are contributing more to Graal.

Zone is actually an interesting example of what limiting the player does. Originally trial accounts weren't saved but could still partake in guild activities and had 100HP. Displeased with this, they later changed it so trials started with 80HP and could no longer join guilds. Zone began to lose some playercount over this and much of its guild activity died off. The moment v5 came out, I declared Zone "RIP" and was quickly proven correct. Zone is such a good server, but it is ruined by imbalances caused by the cash shop and the restrictive limitations that were stacked onto players over the years. I hope iZone revives interest in the server.

[dude2020]

Originally Posted by Crono

Zone is actually an interesting example of what limiting the player does. Originally trial accounts weren't saved but could still partake in guild activities and had 100HP. Displeased with this, they later changed it so trials started with 80HP and could no longer join guilds. Zone began to lose some playercount over this and much of its guild activity died off. The moment v5 came out, I declared Zone "RIP" and was quickly proven correct. Zone is such a good server, but it is ruined by imbalances caused by the cash shop and the restrictive limitations that were stacked onto players over the years. I hope iZone revives interest in the server.

You forgot about terrible managers.

I was there.... it was like watching a train wreck go into a nuclear power plant with explosives.

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by dude2020

You forgot about terrible managers.

QFT. He has a point here Cron

[Crono]

Originally Posted by dude2020

You forgot about terrible managers.

I was there.... it was like watching a train wreck go into a nuclear power plant with explosives.

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

QFT. He has a point here Cron

Zone's managers weren't ace (no names) but they were heavily restricted on what they could and couldn't do by Stefan. You can't blame them.

[Imperialistic]

I don't have the best memory of Zone, but didn't things start going downhill once Supernanny started managing?

[NicoX]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

I don't have the best memory of Zone, but didn't things start going downhill once Supernanny started managing?

Who is Supernanny

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

I don't have the best memory of Zone, but didn't things start going downhill once Supernanny started managing?

No, it was specifically right after Graal v5 was introduced.

[dude2020]

Originally Posted by Crono

Zone's managers weren't ace (no names) but they were heavily restricted on what they could and couldn't do by Stefan. You can't blame them.

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

I don't have the best memory of Zone, but didn't things start going downhill once Supernanny started managing?

Supernanny (Possibly Stephen) and before were heavily restricted. I do not blame them and shouldn't of been restricted as much as they should have. The others after though, weren't restricted as much as the previous ones have been. The only thing they were not allowed to change on the live server was the cash shop.

We saw terrible content under those managers and nothing out of the current. We saw PowerProNL create a terrible new deathmatch map and releasing it and making it the one the players are forced to play for a number of rounds before the old one comes up. We also saw a new CTF, which was released as unfinished. We then saw a continuation of the planet point system (Which I find absolutely stupid).not sure if it was PPNL or Codein

Pez took over and failed at balancing weapons, and further additions to planet points. He didn't change any of the previous content added by PowerProNL and refused to work from not being able to touch the cash shop (which from what I understand, you can nerf the weapons and add the stuff to the in-game shop while keeping everything on there).

[Crono]

Originally Posted by dude2020

Supernanny (Possibly Stephen) and before were heavily restricted. I do not blame them and shouldn't of been restricted as much as they should have. The others after though, weren't restricted as much as the previous ones have been. The only thing they were not allowed to change on the live server was the cash shop.

We saw terrible content under those managers and nothing out of the current. We saw PowerProNL create a terrible new deathmatch map and releasing it and making it the one the players are forced to play for a number of rounds before the old one comes up. We also saw a new CTF, which was released as unfinished. We then saw a continuation of the planet point system (Which I find absolutely stupid).not sure if it was PPNL or Codein

Pez took over and failed at balancing weapons, and further additions to planet points. He didn't change any of the previous content added by PowerProNL and refused to work from not being able to touch the cash shop (which from what I understand, you can nerf the weapons and add the stuff to the in-game shop while keeping everything on there).

We're really running off topic but Zone was dead well after those guys were appointed manager. Once Zone died it became almost impossible to revive it. The players that had played it either moved on to other servers or quit Graal all-together. They were initially chased off by the restrictions directly prior to v5 and then afterwards.

We do have some hope @ iZone though, I just hope we can play it on our v6 clients and not have to use crappy Facebook.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The PC Graal version is currently lagging a little bit behind the developments in the mobile space, but it's not we are standing still.

Originally Posted by Stefan

we cannot check each day if the servers are correctly scripted or so and prices are fair.

One last thing I'd like to add in response to this particular post is that the longer the current pricing scheme remains in place, the more talented developers and reliable server staff will quit. As experienced people fortunate enough to have a lifetime Classic account gradually leave, it's harder for them to be replaced by people of similar experience/maturity due to the fact the unfortunate newer people are having to fork out for a subscription every year. Over time this will make it even harder to improve the situation than it already is.