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Originally Posted by fowlplay4
Hacks upon hacks upon hacks make for really complicated systems, also the fact that you have to go completely custom if you want to modify nearly any default system.
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Some people also plan way too big and make things way more complicated than they need to be or the documentation isn't there and they end up making something more complicated than it needs to be.
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From the sounds of it, it's mostly a documentation problem coupled with a limitation on the systems of Graal itself. The language being difficult to learn isn't something new, but if it's not possible to learn on your own seemingly at all AND the programs you use with it are limited, I can see where a lot of players would start big and end with nothing.
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Originally Posted by cbk1994
The reason Graal is frustrating to developers is that Stefan and unixmad market Graal as a development platform but provide very little support for the developers.
Did you know you have to pay a monthly fee to work on a server? Did you know we had to argue with Stefan for months just to get nightly backups (not even source control—which we still don't have, in 2012!)? Did you know our basic scripting tool, RC, can't even find and replace? Did you know the Windows version can't indent multiple lines at once, unless you've been blessed with the latest unreleased-for-years version of RC from Stefan?
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I've been pointing fingers at CJ since I can remember for **** like this, and I'm not even a level designer, scripter, or graphics artist (although I tried all three and failed). I think it should be okay to resign myself as a player instead as a developer, but Graal isn't even marketed that way anymore. My voice on what servers should be like or what updates should do or look like are next to nothing.
It's really saddening that some of us can play a game for over 10 years and still be ignored as a community by our founders, especially the developers who are, according to CJ, playing Graal correctly by trying to develop on it.
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Originally Posted by DustyPorViva
I find it's because Graal itself is extremely limited, and you get no help from anyone who could change that. And it's not flexible either, which is another issue. Working with default means working with extreme limitations, and not being able to change what you need to. In the end in order to achieve your goals, sometimes you just have to do it yourself.
If I COULD do what I wanted with default, then I most definitely would. But these are not routes someone new/interested in scripting should take at all.
Not to mention that is a fairly recent addition to Graal, and only something that was added because Stefan needed to make players walk faster on iPhone servers; this is all despite how often and persistently it was asked for before iPhone servers came along. See the issue? iPhone servers came along and they COULDN'T be expanded/fixed with scripts like we're forced to do, but that's no problem because Stefan just adds what's needed.
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I don't even think the default settings are bad, but again all I really want out of Graal at this point is a classic styled server focused on guilds sparring and PKing in a nurturing environment for that sort of thing to be taken seriously. The systems that have been suggested in the past like capturing towns or even simple one leveled PK to a certain number type are either to complicated for their own good (and never come out) or are so simple that they don't even utilize all of the default system's potential.
I've always failed to appreciate the more complicated servers like Era, Zodiac, Zone, Kingdoms to a certain extent, and others who deviate so much from the default AlttP systems. UN being the last classic styled server out there just makes my personal outlook on playing Graal seem so grim. I'll never get to play on an improved version of my dream classic world.
I think I have a better understanding of why scripters go for such complication now though. It's not only grand ideas, but poor mechanics to create those grand ideas. I feel sorrow for anyone new trying to learn gscript, but also a sense of yearning for them to actually get good and produce something.