New Terms of Service

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Goatse I'm certain would not be a warning at all. Last I checked the ******* is as offensive as any other part of the middle region of the body, back or front.

Exactly. No warning = the rule everyone is whining about is being applied. What's the problem? Certain situations call for punishment without warning, which is what that clause covers. It has to be vague because they can't predict or narrow down every circumstance that would qualify for action without warning.

I get the feeling people are throwing up their arms in protest for very little reason other than the fact they want to act like a problem is there when it's not for drama or something.

[SlikRick]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Exactly. You allowed it, therefor there was a "clause" for it, so to say. If it can happen, then in a set of rules typically you should disclose that it CAN happen. That's all that's going on here.

It is a well known fact that if you delete content on the server without permission, you're done. As for the hacking that is in Graal's ToS that it will not be tolerated.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by SlikRick

It is a well known fact that if you delete content on the server without permission, you're done. As for the hacking that is in Graal's ToS that it will not be tolerated.

Same ToS says your account can be terminated without warning.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Same ToS says your account can be terminated without warning.

You're right about this. But it doesn't hold relevancy towards UN's ToS for it's about the way undesired actions are to be treated and agreed upon not doing. This is merely stating that Graal itself holds the right to do what they wish with the account you've rented.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

You're right about this. But it doesn't hold relevancy towards UN's ToS for it's about the way undesired actions are to be treated and agreed upon not doing. This is merely stating that Graal itself holds the right to do what they wish with the account you've rented.

He's saying graal tos gives him the right to ban without warning; I'm saying the same tos gives un the same rights to do the same thing.

[SlikRick]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

He's saying graal tos gives him the right to ban without warning; I'm saying the same tos gives un the same rights to do the same thing.

The Graal ToS I was referring to was hacking, which gives you an advantage to do whatever you want and makes the game unfair to others.

[Unkownsoldier]

What is this business about limiting your rights? As long as you behave maturely I don't ever see you even encountering the rule system on UN. If you don't behave maturely then what can you say? You deserve to get punished. It is as simple as that.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

What is this business about limiting your rights? As long as you behave maturely I don't ever see you even encountering the rule system on UN. If you don't behave maturely then what can you say? You deserve to get punished. It is as simple as that.

Because UN is clearly known for it's highly mature and sophisticated image

[Unkownsoldier]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Because UN is clearly known for it's highly mature and sophisticated image

We have all played UN and know what type of people play it, rules being enforced strictly probably helps the server rather than hurts it. If we let the players do what they wanted to do this game would probably be a crappier version of Gary's mod and a turn off to new players.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

We have all played UN and know what type of people play it, rules being enforced strictly probably helps the server rather than hurts it. If we let the players do what they wanted to do this game would probably be a crappier version of Gary's mod and a turn off to new players.

Do you mind me asking how confident you are in this statement?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by SlikRick

The Graal ToS I was referring to was hacking, which gives you an advantage to do whatever you want and makes the game unfair to others.

Ya and what I'm saying is the very ToS that says you can be banned for hacking because it's unfair says you can be banned at any time for no reason. All I'm saying is UN's ToS isn't going against the same ToS everyone agrees to when they signed up for Graal, so I don't see the problem.

And again, these are things that were all applicable(and apparently in place for an entire year) that no one ever even knew about. Just reinforcing my stance that it's no big deal.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

All I'm saying is UN's ToS isn't going against the same ToS everyone agrees to when they signed up for Graal, so I don't see the problem.

Very true, but at the same time, this isn't on topic, but my question is this.

How many people actually read through that ToS at all back then when they agreed to it?
I also doubt many can actually remember. Anything presented nowadays would probably be by recent glances.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Very true, but at the same time, this isn't on topic, but my question is this.

How many people actually read through that ToS at all back then when they agreed to it?
I also doubt many can actually remember. Anything presented nowadays would probably be by recent glances.

ToS agreements can always be viewed at a later time, so even if a user agrees without reading the terms they can always go back and look at them later.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Draenin

ToS agreements can always be viewed at a later time, so even if a user agrees without reading the terms they can always go back and look at them later.

But do you expect them to naturally go and read the ToS without having a reason to need to know..?

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

But do you expect them to naturally go and read the ToS without having a reason to need to know..?

Nope. It's there for reference. So that you can go back and look at it if you need to.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

But do you expect them to naturally go and read the ToS without having a reason to need to know..?

Not sure why you think they're responsible for making sure someone actually reads the ToS. Then again would it matter? Would you read it if they listed it right there when you have to click to accept it? Would you read it if they made it so that you can't click that you accept until you scrolled to the bottom?

In the end ToS aren't as binding as people think they are. Courts know that companies bull**** around with ToS and most things in ToS are only there to dissuade a costumer from pursuing legal action; and it works.

I still don't see the issue here. This ToS has been in place for a year apparently. Did you notice a sudden and abrupt change a year ago that this thread is proposing would happen as all the players rights are stripped away?

And I agree with it. People deserve to be punished without warning. Warnings are a privilege. I know many players on Graal are *******s and trolls that try to skirt the rules to the best of their ability and get away with as much as they can. Again, someone with a long history of being a nuisance player, but never actually breaking the rules but always walking a fine line deserves to be more severely punished(and possibly with no warning) than a player who commits their first offense for something minor like accidentally getting worked up and cursing.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I know many players on Graal are *******s and trolls that try to skirt the rules to the best of their ability and get away with as much as they can.

Well put.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Not sure why you think they're responsible for making sure someone actually reads the ToS. Then again would it matter? Would you read it if they listed it right there when you have to click to accept it? Would you read it if they made it so that you can't click that you accept until you scrolled to the bottom?

It does matter if you read it, because that's what the intention of the ToS is for, if you're aware of the rules, you are unable to argue against a wrongdoing if you're in violation. If it is a legitimate violation claim, then yes this is perfectly fine, no arguments on it, but what about a false positive, so to speak? If they hadn't read it, they couldn't properly defend, but I think this is just my own opinion based on a hypothetical, so feel free to agree or disagree.

About your questions though, I can see where you're directing this, people are ignorant towards things in their way for their desire to play and I'll probably not be an exception.
But when I get on Graal, I'm aware that there are risky rules that can be touched upon, so on here, I do read. Usually when it's a different game, one that does not focus on social interactions as much as Graal. I will usually stick to proper etiquette and manners.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

In the end ToS aren't as binding as people think they are. Courts know that companies bull**** around with ToS and most things in ToS are only there to dissuade a costumer from pursuing legal action; and it works.

Mhm, that's true.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I still don't see the issue here. This ToS has been in place for a year apparently. Did you notice a sudden and abrupt change a year ago that this thread is proposing would happen as all the players rights are stripped away?

I wasn't really on Graal for the year that is being spoken up, I barely visited the game, with UN, I believe I merely posted on their forum(here and UN's in-game forums) and chatted to friends through PM. But as for people suddenly having trouble, I think there was trouble from those who spoke to me, but again, I can't really speak of that because it's trivial now.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

And I agree with it. People deserve to be punished without warning. Warnings are a privilege. I know many players on Graal are *******s and trolls that try to skirt the rules to the best of their ability and get away with as much as they can. Again, someone with a long history of being a nuisance player, but never actually breaking the rules but always walking a fine line deserves to be more severely punished(and possibly with no warning) than a player who commits their first offense for something minor like accidentally getting worked up and cursing.

Warnings are a privilege, I can agree to that. Does that mean they should be entirely disregarded? Because the way I'm reading this, it feels like you are stating it should be.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

It does matter if you read it, because that's what the intention of the ToS is for, if you're aware of the rules, you are unable to argue against a wrongdoing if you're in violation. If it is a legitimate violation claim, then yes this is perfectly fine, no arguments on it, but what about a false positive, so to speak? If they hadn't read it, they couldn't properly defend, but I think this is just my own opinion based on a hypothetical, so feel free to agree or disagree.

To agree to any terms implies that you have read them, whether or not you did. But I am not a lawyer, so I can't really elaborate on such a thing.

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Warnings are a privilege, I can agree to that. Does that mean they should be entirely disregarded? Because the way I'm reading this, it feels like you are stating it should be.

Hmm? But they're not being entirely disregarded. Simply stating staff have no obligation to give you a warning prior to further punishment, and they don't. Chances are however that staff still heavily hand out more warnings than actual punishment, not that I can back that up with stats though.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

To agree to any terms implies that you have read them, whether or not you did. But I am not a lawyer, so I can't really elaborate on such a thing.

I get what you're saying, but what I'm saying is that people don't entirely understand that. That's why these agreements are such bull**** to cover their own ends.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Hmm? But they're not being entirely disregarded. Simply stating staff have no obligation to give you a warning prior to further punishment, and they don't. Chances are however that staff still heavily hand out more warnings than actual punishment, not that I can back that up with stats though.

I'm not saying that as a general fact, I'm saying from your point of view that they should be by the way you see them. Nothing being held against you, I'm merely curious about how you see that.

[snoop413]

why are you saying UN is the immature server? like the one you play on is any better. staff members on zod and era have spawned items to sell for USD. the manager of shaded legend tried getting everyone on UN fired because he was threatened, and he asked every girl that would talk to him for nudes. people on val cyber for items or PSN codes.

last night the manager of era came on our server to troll about having a ToS. if you don't like it, then don't play.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by snoop413

why are you saying UN is the immature server? like the one you play on is any better. staff members on zod and era have spawned items to sell for USD. the manager of shaded legend tried getting everyone on UN fired because he was threatened, and he asked every girl that would talk to him for nudes. people on val cyber for items or PSN codes.

last night the manager of era came on our server to troll about having a ToS. if you don't like it, then don't play.

Also whom are you speaking to directly? I'm a little confused on this tangent.

[snoop413]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Also whom are you speaking to directly? I'm a little confused on this tangent.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by snoop413

why are you saying UN is the immature server? like the one you play on is any better. staff members on zod and era have spawned items to sell for USD. the manager of shaded legend tried getting everyone on UN fired because he was threatened, and he asked every girl that would talk to him for nudes. people on val cyber for items or PSN codes.

last night the manager of era came on our server to troll about having a ToS. if you don't like it, then don't play.

I think most people only play UN because it is the last remaining classic server available. Not that it has any sort of content or fun involved like it used to. I'm sure if any other classic server is on the list, people would go there.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

I think most people only play UN because it is the last remaining classic server available. Not that it has any sort of content or fun involved like it used to. I'm sure if any other classic server is on the list, people would go there.

There is plenty of stuff to do on UN. The problem is there is never anybody new to do it with (see mode, observer).

[geneticfrog]

UN is the only server left with limited Time for trials is one of the main issues.

why would new players play UN if they can play zodiac and era for free with no time limits...

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

There is plenty of stuff to do on UN. The problem is there is never anybody new to do it with (see mode, observer).

In the most unstructured and bugged way possible.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

In the most unstructured and bugged way possible.

Like what? There are no bugs with tower defense, any of the board games, or any of the nearly 100 events (if there is report it to me and I'll fix it.) Bowling is old but their is only one bug I can think of, but is never used cause people are long bored of it. The Castle Wars system which everyone on UN thinks is crap and wants redone is easily better than any of the forts on iphone. Plus it has all the things you'd expect; sparring, tag team sparring, a regular tournament schedule, tcpk... etc.

Some UN oldbies like to pick it apart and can do so because they know everything about it, sort of like a dude who has been married for 50 years knows his wife's every personality flaw.

UN's biggest problems arethe heart quests are garbage and noobs have no way of even knowing where to go to find them, but even with that UN would probably have the same average amount of players as Zodiac and Era is it were not for Observer Mode.

[geneticfrog]

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

Like what? There are no bugs with tower defense, any of the board games, or any of the nearly 100 events (if there is report it to me and I'll fix it.) Bowling is old but their is only one bug I can think of, but is never used cause people are long bored of it. The Castle Wars system which everyone on UN thinks is crap and wants redone is easily better than any of the forts on iphone. Plus it has all the things you'd expect; sparring, tag team sparring, a regular tournament schedule, tcpk... etc.

Some UN oldbies like to pick it apart and can do so because they know everything about it, sort of like a dude who has been married for 50 years knows his wife's every personality flaw.

UN's biggest problems arethe heart quests are garbage and noobs have no way of even knowing where to go to find them, but even with that UN would probably have the same average amount of players as Zodiac and Era is it were not for Observer Mode.

along the fact that new players have a time limit on UN added to the fact that there is no guide, map or tutorial for hearts sword/shield and basicallly everything else.

the new players log on, walk outside get pked/realise the limited time then log on ERA or Zodiac.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

Like what? There are no bugs with tower defense, any of the board games, or any of the nearly 100 events (if there is report it to me and I'll fix it.) Bowling is old but their is only one bug I can think of, but is never used cause people are long bored of it. The Castle Wars system which everyone on UN thinks is crap and wants redone is easily better than any of the forts on iphone. Plus it has all the things you'd expect; sparring, tag team sparring, a regular tournament schedule, tcpk... etc.

Some UN oldbies like to pick it apart and can do so because they know everything about it, sort of like a dude who has been married for 50 years knows his wife's every personality flaw.

UN's biggest problems arethe heart quests are garbage and noobs have no way of even knowing where to go to find them, but even with that UN would probably have the same average amount of players as Zodiac and Era is it were not for Observer Mode.

How about the isle of bane which has a literal crap ton of broken ****. Yeah sure there are arcade games, but what are the incentives to play them on graal rather than on a different website with probably better programming and attractiveness?

The CastleWars system needs reform terribly, but it's something hardly any management goes out of their way to doing considering how it ended up when I was trying to do it. Yeah Iphone is ****, but Iphone is a mobile platform (with a larger market for more basic games like graal) and thus it's still enticing to play.

My biggest concern about UN is how you guys fail to even convey updates properly and have a PR Admin who does so in such a terrible format.

It's actually really funny that no player has yet to defend UN and it's current standing. Not to worry though, we have staff in this thread criticizing other servers with an actual playerbase higher than 15 (not including staff).

[James]

sweet......hopefully it dies

[fowlplay4]

sreftguhiuihuih

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

How about the isle of bane which has a literal crap ton of broken ****. Yeah sure there are arcade games, but what are the incentives to play them on graal rather than on a different website with probably better programming and attractiveness?

The CastleWars system needs reform terribly, but it's something hardly any management goes out of their way to doing considering how it ended up when I was trying to do it. Yeah Iphone is ****, but Iphone is a mobile platform (with a larger market for more basic games like graal) and thus it's still enticing to play.

My biggest concern about UN is how you guys fail to even convey updates properly and have a PR Admin who does so in such a terrible format.

It's actually really funny that no player has yet to defend UN and it's current standing. Not to worry though, we have staff in this thread criticizing other servers with an actual playerbase higher than 15 (not including staff).

I think overall the state of castlewars probably matters very little

it's probably a decade too late to fix the mixed grab bag strategy that UN thrived on, and the weakness of having a broad amount of things to do without much depth has been exposed for some years.

There are some people still working on UN who can clearly keep broadening out what the server is about but the depth will probably never come along unless a lot of the better developer's come along to lend a helping hand to UN in terms of getting a real infrastructure in place.

There's too much stuff for any one person or handful of people to realistically do that without gutting a lot of the current content, and that doesn't really work very well because of the lack of depth.

And this dumb competitiveness between servers which virtually everyone in this thread seems to be going on about seems to make that a very unlikely possibility, and if some how the best developers from each server were to come together, they might as well just go to Classic and work on a clean slate.