Gun Admin fail? (iPhone)

[MiniOne]

So on iPhone Era two guns have been released where the potential to dodge is close to 0.
One the BAR:
1) shotting speed 2nd highest in the game. (shoots one bullet at a time)
2) Freeze close to 0
3) damage 10 (HP is 50)
Second the Shipka:
1) highest shotting speed in game (shoots two bullets at once)
2) Freeze close to 0
3) Damage 9 (HP:50)

Basically these two guns will dominate every other gun in the game, removing all skill required to play, almost. Place the pricing behind the guns are quite high but on iPhone you can easy abuse iTunes bug to get an unlimited supply of gralats.

I asked an admin as to why the gun isn't nerfed and I received the reply because of money. Therefore concluding this game no longer cares about the community just the profit it can make.

Solution:
Revamp the guns.
Delete the guns.
Revert back to the five gun system; shotgun, handgun, starter gun, m4 and uzi (since Cloyd clearly cannot handle the tier system)

[fowlplay4]

Good luck getting a gun worth almost a $100 deleted (or even revamped).

[MiniOne]

my point exactly... games pretty much ruined cause of corporate greed! anyway I quit... all fun from spar has been ruined D:

[Herb_P2P]

l3rn 2 sP@r

[MiniOne]

Originally Posted by Herb_P2P

l3rn 2 sP@r

LOL even duke doesn't try now cause his got the BAR, almost every player realizes that with the bar skill is basically not required.

and i'm sorry we aren't all admins
Kane right? who beats you over 50% of the time xP

[jkldogg]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

removing all skill required to play, almost.

No skill is required to play, I stopped reading here.

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Good luck getting a gun worth almost a $100 deleted (or even revamped).

Are you talking irl cash ?

[xAndrewx]

ya. It's a good gun, if you've got skills you can beat it

[MiniOne]

Originally Posted by jkldogg

Are you talking irl cash ?

yes $100 irl ....

@Snk
To be honest you can't beat it if they hug the bottom wall and spray up and down wherever your moving, since you can't move between the bullets and both seem to want to fire with 0 freeze

Simply most players would agree and I'm sure many admins would agree too besides you know kane cause he uses the BAR and ohh wait all admins probably use the BAR so they have no idea how hard it is to beat with say an M4.

Oh and Ionno if its just me, but I don't find it entertaining vsing someone who doesn't even have to try to beat me no matter how hard I try just because I can't dodge his bullets because it shots so fast.... When they corner you, its an instant drop of 50 - 30 and most of the time you can only do a maximum of like 8 or 9 with a regular gun to them....

[MiniOne]

Anyway this is what happened to zone, they made all the guns you buy with real money extremely OP and they made it you pretty much couldnt get a gun without spending $10 real money. Guess what that resulted in? A complete decline of zone's playercount.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

@Snk
To be honest you can't beat it if they hug the bottom wall and spray up and down wherever your moving, since you can't move between the bullets and both seem to want to fire with 0 freeze

If they're hugging the bottom wall, then the obvious thing to do would be to force them to direct their fire elsewhere. Don't go down there at all and if they hug, round-tree them up and behind. It's really not that hard. They'll only hug if you keep going down there.

[WillaWonka]

Easy, just make a much better gun for 4x the price of the Bar.

[Admins]

Weapons shouldn't be too strong, they should all be of similar power, just having different looks and slightly different stats.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

If they're hugging the bottom wall, then the obvious thing to do would be to force them to direct their fire elsewhere. Don't go down there at all and if they hug, round-tree them up and behind. It's really not that hard. They'll only hug if you keep going down there.

I call that crouching tiger

[Herb_P2P]

It's really not that hard to beat someone with a BAR. No, I don't spar using a BAR. I usually use the Tech9 against players who use bar. I even beat them with an AK47. My friend Kastro can even beat them with m4s. And he's not that much of a sparrer. So you complaining about people getting destroyed in Spars is dumb.

Duke doesn't have to try anymore because he can beat you guys with any gun. about 95% of iEra does not know how to spar. All they do is just Bottom feed, or do the same thing every single time which is shooting up and down. They are too predictable... that's why Im good at sparring not just because of the BAR.

It's easy to confuse them when they stay at the bottom. All you probably do is just run right into the bottom and all you do is get shot, then you try again to rush and you just fail.


like i said. l3rn 2 sP@r

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

@Snk
To be honest you can't beat it if they hug the bottom wall and spray up and down wherever your moving, since you can't move between the bullets and both seem to want to fire with 0 freeze

Simply most players would agree and I'm sure many admins would agree too besides you know kane cause he uses the BAR and ohh wait all admins probably use the BAR so they have no idea how hard it is to beat with say an M4.

Oh and Ionno if its just me, but I don't find it entertaining vsing someone who doesn't even have to try to beat me no matter how hard I try just because I can't dodge his bullets because it shots so fast.... When they corner you, its an instant drop of 50 - 30 and most of the time you can only do a maximum of like 8 or 9 with a regular gun to them....

*Sob story*
The same thing happened on PC Era and skill theoretically went out the window.
Fact remains a good player with a crap gun will be able to beat these better guns, which separates the men from the boys. (Everyone using the same guns is boring after X years)

I don't actually play iEra but I'm sure SNK is not dumb enough to release a gun fitting your description. If you can't dodge the bullets, and you always get cornered.. well then you see the trend here.

Originally Posted by MiniOne

Anyway this is what happened to zone, they made all the guns you buy with real money extremely OP and they made it you pretty much couldnt get a gun without spending $10 real money. Guess what that resulted in? A complete decline of zone's playercount.

Zone kinda died because there were zero updates and the game-play is super monotonous. The same points apply as stated above, and I distinctly recall players dominating with crappy default guns.

Originally Posted by Herb_P2P

like i said. l3rn 2 sP@r

tl;dr I pretty much agreed with what he said.

[jkldogg]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

yes $100 irl

People are willing to pay $100 USD for a gun on a iphone game????? Stefan is about to make bank!

"Mommy mommy please buy me this BAR, it's super good aneveryone will be scared of me!" -little boy / "girl"

"Well, alright, this is your Christmas gift then." -Mom

*5 minutes later*

"wtf, how am I still dying??" -little boy / "girl"

"It says no refunds, enjoy your christmas gift" - Mom

[skillmaster19]

I originally thought iEra was way better than iClassic but then it went pay to win lol.

[MiniOne]

Technically people who get the BAR, around 50% use the iTunes bug but management clearly doesn't care for the honest player.

And you can turtle them but if they sit in the corner and spray up and down you pretty much have no chance of winning unless you use a shotgun but with the 0 freeze on BAR it can easily dodge shotgun bullets.

I'm not talking about like extremely bad players, but half decent players with BAR pretty much play with 0 effort. A prime example is 'Duke' now he doesn't have to try in spar just because of an overpowered gun like BAR.

I agree with Stefan guns should be similar with slight adjustments and different looks but clearly Cloyd does not understand this concept creating two guns which are clearly far superior to the rest.

Another problem now is it literally takes around 30hrs gameplay to get 50k gralats and buy an m4. So it takes about 120hrs to get a BAR. Pretty much what I'm saying is the majority of your gametime will now be dedicated to earning money because gun prizes sky rocketed from the previous 6k - 8k which was an easy 8 - 10hrs of work to now the highest pricing gun of 200k. Money hungry much? Oh not to mention $3 buys you 8k gralats through iTunes and then there's the people who abuse prepaid visa cards to apply iTunes fraud.

@Supaman
Snk doesn't do gun management and when I asked him it said it's not his department to manage or something similar. And if you did play iEra and weren't an admin trying to make the game look better posting here, then you would see what I mean by you literally cannot walk between two shots like any other gun on the server and therefore if they move up shotting straight or sideways and corner you, your hp will fall from 50 - 30 90% of the time.

@kane
Like I mentioned earlier I do beat you a large majority of the time and stop being so stubborn about the fact the two guns I mentioned are overpowered, majority of PRs have agreed with the fact and I'm sure the majority of the community without the BAR or Shipka will also agree that it's no longer entertaining facing a player can beat you easily without trying just because they use these guns.

TBH maybe it's actually just me being use to Zone and PC Era where any gun can pretty much beat any gun and both players actually have to put effort into their spar to have an enjoyable time. I don't know anymore so like I might just go to PC Era again.

[Supaman771]

Just wait till they release Mp5 Navy on iEra.
People gon' be poopin' pants.

[bloodykiller]

i wish op guns would be released on real era too!!!!!!!!!!!!!! takes was more skill at twice the speed

[RogueShatterblade]

the idea of era being on the iphone is the most insane thing i've ever heard

[Crono]

if the effort you put in to counter someone is much greater than the amount of effort it takes the other person to counter you then there is obviously a problem with balance

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Crono

if the effort you put in to counter someone is much greater than the amount of effort it takes the other person to counter you then there is obviously a problem with balance

But, but... if you wait for the planets to align on the winter solstice during a full solar eclipse, and you press a combo of keys in rapid succession, you can beat them! It's totally fair!

[MiniOne]

Originally Posted by Crono

if the effort you put in to counter someone is much greater than the amount of effort it takes the other person to counter you then there is obviously a problem with balance

Crono you have access to the iEra server, hop on and look at the spars where regular players vs BARS/Shipka and look then you can see the difference in how players with say a M4 have to try in comparison to the BAR. But since you know BAR brings in $100 per purchase its okay to have it remain cause money > player's entertainment.

I just feel either that money is the issue or Cloyd is just a bad gun admin and that would require a change.
But if they were to nerf or alter the gun in anyway the people who paid $100 would feel ripped off and complain (even though I'm sure many of them use the iTunes fraud), therefore they have already screwed up the server to a stage where they can't really turn back without some sort of trouble.

I give iEra another 2 - 3months before playercount drops below 50, and the people who stay with be those with BAR/Shipka or those who just sit around start and then those players can have fun since they all have op guns which means equality

[xAndrewx]

That's not the case. The BAR is a high powered gun, that's why it's so high. Alternatively there is the Shipka which owns the BAR. Personally, I believe the MK23s are the best gun.

[MiniOne]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

That's not the case. The BAR is a high powered gun, that's why it's so high. Alternatively there is the Shipka which owns the BAR. Personally, I believe the MK23s are the best gun.

I did clearly say Shipka and BAR are far OP and your balance issue is because of how your tier 3 guns are in comparison to tier 1/2 guns.
Such that tier 3 guns fire at about 2x the rate of tier 2 and do 10/9 damage and have close to 0 freeze.

Anyway I asked andrew to inspect the guns he said I will investigate it with Cloyd. I replied really? and he said clearly I'm not going to.

Management of the server is a complete wreck if that's the case.... Anyway I'm sorry not everyone wants to flock out $100 / 60hrs+ / using iTunes fraud to obtain an op gun to enjoy the game. If you weren't an admin and a normal player who couldn't access the guns and sparred then you would see how the enjoyment of spar has been sucked away because of your crap balance, get wil to check it... I think his tier system was great.

Sadly iEra players don't really go on the forums and can't post their complaints....
Clearly I'm getting no way so I'm going to give up on this argument and just hope you can see your flaws before the game declines.

Personally I believe Cloyd can't balance stats on a gun at all majority of new releases have had completely failed balance.

[jkldogg]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

Another problem now is it literally takes around 30hrs gameplay to get 50k gralats and buy an m4. So it takes about 120hrs to get a BAR. Pretty much what I'm saying is the majority of your gametime will now be dedicated to earning money because gun prizes sky rocketed from the previous 6k - 8k which was an easy 8 - 10hrs of work to now the highest pricing gun of 200k. Money hungry much? Oh not to mention $3 buys you 8k gralats through iTunes and then there's the people who abuse prepaid visa cards to apply iTunes fraud.

This paragraph had me dying, LOL.

200k? ohman...guns on pc are like millions man, you guys have mad problems there!!!!!

[WillaWonka]

I HAVE IDEA:

Hire Wil Sawl, He'll do the nerfing job for ya

Oh yeah, I spent 5years for any sort of wealth on Era PC, stop complaining.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

I did clearly say Shipka and BAR are far OP and your balance issue is because of how your tier 3 guns are in comparison to tier 1/2 guns.
Such that tier 3 guns fire at about 2x the rate of tier 2 and do 10/9 damage and have close to 0 freeze.

Name all guns in which you think are over powered.

Originally Posted by MiniOne

Anyway I asked andrew to inspect the guns he said I will investigate it with Cloyd. I replied really? and he said clearly I'm not going to.

You know I said it as a joke. Around 20 other people were with you, you're the only one that took that comment seriously.

Originally Posted by MiniOne

Management of the server is a complete wreck if that's the case.... Anyway I'm sorry not everyone wants to flock out $100 / 60hrs+ / using iTunes fraud to obtain an op gun to enjoy the game. If you weren't an admin and a normal player who couldn't access the guns and sparred then you would see how the enjoyment of spar has been sucked away because of your crap balance, get wil to check it... I think his tier system was great.

There are other guns you can obtain, you can even get the gun for free if you participate in events!
There are alot of ways to make money, and more are coming soon. Save your money and don't spend anything. I can't teach you about money management, but if you want a gun that bad you would save up your money.

Wil doesn't play iPhone and I think Cloyd is doing a good job. Have any suggestions- tell me and i'll pass it on. You can contact him personally in game.

Originally Posted by MiniOne

Sadly iEra players don't really go on the forums and can't post their complaints....
Clearly I'm getting no way so I'm going to give up on this argument and just hope you can see your flaws before the game declines.

Personally I believe Cloyd can't balance stats on a gun at all majority of new releases have had completely failed balance.

Most post on Graalians.com. I believe Cloyd can balance a gun.


I would like to know how you would balance the guns out- what would you do with the following guns:

• BAR
• M4
• Famas
• Shipka

[DustyPorViva]

High price != balancing factor, just saying.

[MiniOne]

Snk the balancing issue is only concerned with BAR and Shipka. M4 and Famas can be beaten easily (in fact every other gun is fine but then again I don't get demonstrated many guns besides M4/BAR/Shipka in spars).
The issue is with the rate of fire on the guns, I believe if you slowed both the speeds down so it's possible to move between the shots then the guns would be fine. At the current state the guns shot way to fast, I would believe that every gun shouldn't be able to shot two shots so fast that you can't move between the bullets, simply nerf the fire speed so that its dodgable and it should be fine. Every other guns rate of fire can be moved between except for those two, that's why the other guns have problems facing them.
I sparred around 100 spars yesterday to see if it was really just because I suck, and I realized the only way to truly win against a BAR or a shipka is to play passive and hope your opponent makes errors. This means that spars are tedious and boring because you can't personally outplay your opponent due to dodging and timing shots. As far as PC Era is, all the guns on there I've seen have no issue with being dodged because none have excessively hire fire rates.

And about the pricing issue, PC has numerous more ways to making money and the amount they can make from just say a diamond is about $100 far exceeds that of the highest amount you can make from Era off one item (a shell for $8).

Andrew we both know that 99% of the iEra server are on admins ****s, its not like PC where there's constant complaints about staff. That's why even when staff make mistakes it usually goes unnoticed. Nothing you can do there.

Funny when I tried to contact Cloyd he server messaged "all shipka's have been removed and 20k has been added to your inventory" and a clear lie. I truly don't believe you take my suggestions seriously because the majority of times the replies from yourself and cloyd are that all guns have perfect balance and that there is no issue there. It would be nice if you could notice the change in the spar style of many players due to the release of those two guns.

I suggested Wil because his balance on PC Era was great in terms that any tier gun can compete against another tier and I believed that should be the case when it comes to any shooting games, its just that when it comes to Tier 1 vs Tier 3, yes Tier 3 should have a distinct advantage, but not to the extent that the bullets are undodgable and the chances of winning are extremely slim.

Anyway all I believe that needs to be done is reducing fire rates of Shipka and BAR so that you can slip between two shots (this applies to every gun), that way its a mix between skill/gun and so that anyone who is skilled enough to weave through bullets can win even if its a handgun vs a BAR. I do believe Cloyd can balance guns because overall the balance issue is fine besides those two guns.

New ways of earning money would be nice, and the clear difference in the amounts earned on PC and iEra are shown through the lottery. iEra you earn about $100 from lottery while PC if i remember correctly can go over $5000 (correct me if I'm wrong). And PC has a lot smaller playercount then iEra yet their lottery flocks out a lot more money.

[Masa]

The comparisons to Era PC do no service to the thread.
From the start of iEra, guns have been different from Era PC.
Stefan had set the stats of the original guns (uzi, shotgun, handgun, ak47) and did not want those stats to be altered. These original guns were more powerful than their Era PC counterparts. In other words, Stefan had set the statistical starting point for guns at an irrevocably raised bar. Any future guns would have to be based around this statistical premise and be at least equal by comparison, otherwise there would be no incentive for players to purchase them.
Wil's "tier system" is not possible because it involves altering ALL guns. Stefan has strictly enforced that the "tier 1" (to use your terminology) category can not be altered.
If applied, the tier system would only narrow the gap of diversity among guns, which would eventually prompt a retrospective decision to increase the "top tier" stats again due to the lack of diversity. The idea of gun diversity is discussed at length here.

The walk speed is also slower, so essentially there are faster firing guns and a slower walk speed.
Given these facts, the PK style for iEra is clearly different from Era PC.
There is far less emphasis on weaving through bullets; rather, the objective is to coax or trick the opponent into walking into a trail of bullets and putting them into an undodgeable (due to the slower walk speed) flurry of combo hits.
The solutions that may work on Era PC may not work on Era iPhone.
The only thing in common with Era PC is the shared idea of balance: making sure the weapon stats don't compromise the fairness of the game.

Eventually, a threshold is met where one gun is released that players complain that a gun is too powerful, invoking a recall of some sort. Solely based on your posts, MiniOne (because I haven't been on iEra in some time), I would say that the threshold is either met or on the verge of being met.
I know that Cloyd and I share very similar views on guns, and I doubt that he would let anything compromise fair PKing.

[Scoper]

Originally Posted by MiniOne

And about the pricing issue, PC has numerous more ways to making money and the amount they can make from just say a diamond is about $100 far exceeds that of the highest amount you can make from Era off one item (a shell for $8).

Hi.
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here, but it looks like you're implying a diamond on Era is 100$.
Diamonds are 30$. Furthermore, they are certainly NOT the norm, due to only having a 4% chance of being mined (that might be higher, i'm not at home and I don't have the data set with me right now.).
If you do the math on drop rates related to money output, you would see that each rock you mine on Era averages at about 9.8$/rock, +- maybe .2 or so.

Given that unless you're over level 30 mining ( I'm going to..assume <10% of era has mining levels this high. I believe it's more like <5%, but I can't back that one up as well), you can only mine at most 700 rocks per hour (with a workers potion, doing nothing but staring at the screen -- the perfectly ideal hour), and would probably average somewhere around 500, you're only making ~5k/hour mining.

Being that mining is close to, if not the best way of earning money on the server, wages aren't particularly high.

Originally Posted by MiniOne

New ways of earning money would be nice, and the clear difference in the amounts earned on PC and iEra are shown through the lottery. iEra you earn about $100 from lottery while PC if i remember correctly can go over $5000 (correct me if I'm wrong). And PC has a lot smaller playercount then iEra yet their lottery flocks out a lot more money.

I haven't played IEra in a long time, but haven't you defeated your own argument? Assuming (like on era PC) that multiple people can win the lottery, a higher playercount should diminish the returns on individual winnings.

For example -- say 30,000 is invested in the lottery, half of which is payed out in winnings (thats 15k, boss). If 3 players win, which is about normal on Era, that's 5k per person

but IEra has a lot more players. If 30 players win, that's only .5k per person

and etcetera. I'm sure they run a slighly different lottery system, but it's hard to make guesses on that without seeing it.





also, if i may..
ERA AND IERA ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. stop trying to homogenize them.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Scoper

ERA AND IERA ARE DIFFERENT GAMES

Nope.

[salesman]

lol he said homo

[WillaWonka]

Originally Posted by Masa

is far less emphasis on weaving through bullets; rather, the objective is to coax or trick the opponent into walking into a trail of bullets and putting them into an undodgeable (due to the slower walk speed) flurry of combo hits.

You made laming sound cool.

[jkldogg]

I'm still laughing about $100 for a bar.

[bloodykiller]

wow did sum1 actually read all that stuff at top-page???

[MiniOne]

Originally Posted by Scoper

Hi.
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here, but it looks like you're implying a diamond on Era is 100$.
Diamonds are 30$. Furthermore, they are certainly NOT the norm, due to only having a 4% chance of being mined (that might be higher, i'm not at home and I don't have the data set with me right now.).
If you do the math on drop rates related to money output, you would see that each rock you mine on Era averages at about 9.8$/rock, +- maybe .2 or so.

Given that unless you're over level 30 mining ( I'm going to..assume <10% of era has mining levels this high. I believe it's more like <5%, but I can't back that one up as well), you can only mine at most 700 rocks per hour (with a workers potion, doing nothing but staring at the screen -- the perfectly ideal hour), and would probably average somewhere around 500, you're only making ~5k/hour mining.

Being that mining is close to, if not the best way of earning money on the server, wages aren't particularly high.



I haven't played IEra in a long time, but haven't you defeated your own argument? Assuming (like on era PC) that multiple people can win the lottery, a higher playercount should diminish the returns on individual winnings.

For example -- say 30,000 is invested in the lottery, half of which is payed out in winnings (thats 15k, boss). If 3 players win, which is about normal on Era, that's 5k per person

but IEra has a lot more players. If 30 players win, that's only .5k per person

and etcetera. I'm sure they run a slighly different lottery system, but it's hard to make guesses on that without seeing it.





also, if i may..
ERA AND IERA ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. stop trying to homogenize them.

iEra has a playercount well over 500, assuming 100 people out of the 500 invest into it and since we have 5 winners you'd assume the payback would be greater than on Era.

[dude2020]

This just in: Play Zone while playing Era!