Facebook Graal

[Crono]

"Significant portion"? Try the majority. You've even admitted that those who cared are gone by now. You should note that I'm not saying quests are bad, I'm saying that they are not an integral part of gameplay as proven by Graal's population throughout our history.

How are the original/older Graal quests not "the old days of questing"? And even if it wasn't (but it is) that doesn't change the fact that yet another quest based server was left rotting away.

Curious, but when did you even start playing Graal?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

"Significant portion"? Try the majority.

Perhaps the majority of people who's entire game experience revolves around sparring, as that would make sense, but to say this about the entire visitor base suggests you're exaggerating the proportions, there are many players on Graal who are discontent due to a lack of things to do.

Originally Posted by Crono

You've even admitted that those who cared are gone by now.

I'm not sure what gives you the idea this is a form of "admission", it's simply a circumstance of how Graal's community has over time been shaped by what Graal has to offer, which shouldn't be ignored when comparing the past to the present. The same logic can be applied when it comes to older players who say it was the Zelda/LTTP aspect that brought them to Graal.

Originally Posted by Crono

You should note that I'm not saying quests are bad, I'm saying that they are not an integral part of gameplay as proven by Graal's population throughout our history.

I'm not saying quests specifically are the single most important part of Graal's gameplay either. What I'm saying is that when it comes to there being multiple different Graal servers, these forms of core community interaction which exist on practically all servers just with different combat systems cannot be relied upon as strongly, it's important to remember that in this sense playercount attracts playercount.

Therefore I'm not denying that they are an integral part of Graal, I'm denying the idea that forms of solid content (which don't necessarily have to be quests) are irrelevant, as with the PC Graal circumstances (and possibly iPhone in future) they are important for attracting players specifically to a particular server above the others. Community based content is in turn then very important for "holding onto" players, it also doesn't necessarily have to be spar/pk/events.

Originally Posted by Crono

How are the original/older Graal quests not "the old days of questing"? And even if it wasn't (but it is) that doesn't change the fact that yet another quest based server was left rotting away.

What I was referring to was that I don't believe the intention behind Graal2000 was to bring back the old days of questing, some of the old quests still existed on Graal the Adventure just in a more organised setup.
The primary intention was simply for nostalgic purposes among those discontent with change.

Originally Posted by Crono

Curious, but when did you even start playing Graal?

Another ad hominem?

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Perhaps the majority of people who's entire game experience revolves around sparring, as that would make sense, but to say this about the entire visitor base suggests you're exaggerating the proportions, there are many players on Graal who are discontent due to a lack of things to do.

Majority != entire. Furthermore quests tend to be a one-time kind of thing so "not having anything to do" would still be a problem.

I'm not sure what gives you the idea this is a form of "admission", it's simply a circumstance of how Graal's community has over time been shaped by what Graal has to offer, which shouldn't be ignored when comparing the past to the present. The same logic can be applied when it comes to older players who say it was the Zelda/LTTP aspect that brought them to Graal.

Because my argument is that questing is not an integral part of core gameplay. In the past it carried a larger role but even then I wouldn't consider it core as the majority of the players who I INTERACTED WITH didn't care for questing.

What I was referring to was that I don't believe the intention behind Graal2000 was to bring back the old days of questing, some of the old quests still existed on Graal the Adventure just in a more organised setup.
The primary intention was simply for nostalgic purposes among those discontent with change.

But it DID have the old days of questing, and no one cared. That's the point im trying to convey.

Another ad hominem?

My argument relies on me actually interacting with players over the many years that I've played Graal on the many different servers that have come and went. From your posts its quite obvious that you lack experience, else you'd have come to the same conclusion as me. This isn't some kind of "CRONO VS QUESTING", this is over a decade of experience.

It wouldn't be an "ad hominem" if you were actually speaking from experience, and the fact that you avoid the question answers mine.

I don't really see what else I could say on this matter.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

Majority != entire. Furthermore quests tend to be a one-time kind of thing so "not having anything to do" would still be a problem.

I've always acknowledged quests as being a one time thing and advocated it being besides their main purposes, in no way am I saying they are the single answer to the problem.

Originally Posted by Crono

Because my argument is that questing is not an integral part of core gameplay. In the past it carried a larger role but even then I wouldn't consider it core as the majority of the players who I INTERACTED WITH didn't care for questing.

I'm not saying questing is a part of core gameplay either, that's completely besides the point.
The initial argument was that core interaction is an integral part of the game, but not what provides the game with its identity, or in the case of a specific server makes it stand out among the rest.

To refer to Facebook being an "old Graal experience" is fair enough, it has the default combat, the typical old aspects of gameplay, and has little to no streamlined content. However in terms of this being a "real Graal experience", this will always vary from person to person, for you sure it's 90 - 100% of the Graal experience, for me it was questing that got me hooked into this game in the first place, where I eventually went on to participate in spar/pk/events later on.
Sure I've spent a lot more time interacting + developing (which is a whole new perspective to the Graal experience in itself) than I literally spent playing through quests, but without that it would be 0%. Both are an integral part to the Graal experience from my own perspective.

Originally Posted by Crono

But it DID have the old days of questing, and no one cared. That's the point im trying to convey.

This seems to imply that no one cared because it had the old days of questing, when in actuality there was little deliberation behind this, if anything it was more intended to escape from the evolving questing aspects of Classic and be a more primitive version of Graal.

Originally Posted by Crono

My argument relies on me actually interacting with players over the many years that I've played Graal on the many different servers that have come and went. From your posts its quite obvious that you lack experience, else you'd have come to the same conclusion as me. This isn't some kind of "CRONO VS QUESTING", this is over a decade of experience.

It wouldn't be an "ad hominem" if you were actually speaking from experience, and the fact that you avoid the question answers mine.

As it happens I've had quite a few conversations with older players as of late, it's remarkable how often they seem to default to this "I've been playing since before you have", where quite often it doesn't really mean anything or provide any substance to what they're talking about. I'm not trying to avoid your question.

In terms of lacking experience, I may not have sparred on UN or seriously played away from Classic, but this doesn't mean I haven't been deeply involved with sparring or community interaction, or haven't been in a position to atleast observe it over a long period of time. And yet I don't share the same conclusion as you, my conclusion is based on multiple perspectives aswell as my own.

[WanDaMan]

I don't understand why they haven't released the servers for public use on PC as that would bring in more revenue (providing they manage to integrate the purchasing for upgrades via PC) or alternatively make them Gold servers.

[PhantosP2P]

My guesses:

A) They haven't set up their business model to allow for it yet, i.e. they haven't adjusted the microtransactions of FB graal to work with PC graal; FB Credits don't translate as easily over to the PC graal's payment scheme. It would almost immediately make the PC version's business model look outrageous.

B) They don't believe their server(s) could handle the extra 100-200 or so players. This is a weak guess.

C) They haven't configured the game to work smoothly across both platforms, or feel as if PC graal connecting to FB graal gives the former an unfair advantage in terms of playability. I've tried both and I feel as if PC graal is a smoother experience, enough to say that a sparring match would go to the PC gamer if it became a duel of the pings, etc.

[Lyndzey]

Originally Posted by Crono

But it DID have the old days of questing, and no one cared. That's the point im trying to convey.

Well, Graal2000 had significantly different quests than GTA. GTA in its prime took about 20 hours to fully complete everything, and to me the questing was the most appealing aspect of the server. Graal2000 was made because people kept *****ing that Tyhm had ruined Classic, as originally the questing in Graal2000 was walking into someone's house and getting a heart out of a chest. What actually destroyed Classic back then was the introduction of Graal2001, as it divided the playerbase. The questing was a joke though in G2000, it took about 1 hour to get all 20 hearts and the axe in v1.1.

Questing on its own will not keep people on a server. The reason I picked up playing GTA again after 2001 died was for the questing, though the things that kept me around were the community and events. I think prime GTA was the height of Graal with the elaborate quests and overwhelming content on the server. It's a shame that the NPC server killed it.

[Sword]

Can someone explain why files (heads, swords, etc.) are no longer cached by Flash anymore? Do you know how inconvenient and laggy it is to reload EVERY single graphic and file every time I reconnect? Isn't that a stress on your bandwidth, as well?