Facebook Graal

[Crono]

Just hit 1337 status.

Recently started playing (on a smurf Facebook account of course).

[Galdor]

[Seeya]

Facebook Graal is horrible.

[Tricxta]

Its better then iPhone classic though... swamp town is looking good kudos too whoever did the weather effect

[fowlplay4]

The whole VIP thing doesn't seem to be helping out the Facebook server too much.

[Tricxta]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

The whole VIP thing doesn't seem to be helping out the Facebook server too much.

Well being able to use your ipod account sure beats having to start from scratch lol. I just don't think many people have the dedication to get 7500 gralats each month. I know I don't lol hence I don't play facebook graal much.

[0PiX0]

Originally Posted by Seeya

Facebook Graal is horrible.

It has potential, and much like iPhone, it has room for improvement and expansion.

Originally Posted by Stefan

We will need the new server infrastructure to be to handle the higher playercount brought by the Web/Facebook version

It's great that the Facebook server has the capability for a high playercount at least.
Currently, iPhone players are the majority of the Facebook Graal playercount. Since iPhone players do not have much incentive to play a clone if iClassic on Facebook, other playerworlds should be given the opportunity to move to Facebook.

Originally Posted by unixmad

We are planning to give the opportunity to PlayerWorld owners to move to Free To Play either. We will soon give a list of requirements to move a server Free To Play.

5 months later...
Really, the requirements should have been posted before Facebook Graal was even released. The oh-so-dedicated Graal development community could have been preparing whatever server content is necessary for moving to Facebook (or iPhone). We really should have more details than this:

Originally Posted by unixmad

Free to Play is possible when server and content have been transformed to bring revenues with items and features.

Graal Classic/Era Iphone servers have been transformed to fit Free to Play.

So before switching to free to play, servers will have to introduce Pay items/heads or features.

It would also be nice if GraalOnline began attracting a larger playerbase through means other than word-of-mouth and a handful of review web pages.

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

The whole VIP thing doesn't seem to be helping out the Facebook server too much.

I don't see any reason for iPhone players to buy into it, except for the promised monthly VIP item. Even that isn't a good reason. The iPhone server is populated, so why would players want to pay for VIP just to switch to the Facebook server? The VIP system could use some revision.

[gaben]

I don't think iPod Grawl or Facebook Grawl are horrible by any means, but I must say that they definitely have an impact on the playercount of 'regular' Grawl (ie. on the PC). Most players whom have heard of Grawl, would prefer their iPod Grawl/'Facebook' Grawl over the PC version of Grawl. At the end of the day though, the point that I'm trying to make is that regardless of which one is better PC Grawl will eventually fade from the picture if this love of iPod/Facebook Grawl keeps up.

Though, I must say that Facebook Grawl looks lamer than iPod Grawl.

Also, I realize that the creators behind Facebook Grawl definitely don't care about the playercount of PC Grawl, all they care about is the fact that their €s are incrementing. No point crying over spilt milk though, this was inevitable in some ways. iPod Grawl was only the first step. One must accept that Grawl, like many things, has become a business and in this day and age time will tell.

Who knows? Soon you might be sulking around in the latest Grawl merch and purchasing head777.png mugs!


EDIT: I didn't realize they connected the Facebook servers with the iPod servers. I guess they're just trying to market more, and not expand more servers. Phew - you're saved for now..

[NicoX]

Why the hell you are saying Grawl? It makes me crazy reading Grawl six times !

[gaben]

Originally Posted by NicoX

Why the hell you are saying Grawl? It makes me crazy reading Grawl six times !

I guess whenever the word 'Graal' comes into my mind, I can only mock the term for what it has become. It literally, has lost all meaning to me. Grawl is, well, Grawl!

[NicoX]

Pft....

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Seeya

Facebook Graal is horrible.

Better than Graal on the iPhone and better than Graal on PC if you're looking for a "real Graal" experience.

I connect to the iPhone server everytime, I just don't understand why this isn't on the normal Graal client...the flash client is a bit "wat".

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Crono

Better than Graal on the iPhone and better than Graal on PC if you're looking for a "real Graal" experience.

Just because it has more players right? I doubt the content is that epic :P

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Galdor

Just because it has more players right? I doubt the content is that epic :P

A "real" Graal server has no content, it's just pking/spar/chat. Sure servers forced themselves to have quests but I never considered that a part of gameplay. More of an obstacle. Despite what people say, quests were generally not fun at all and was a chore for new players.

[Galdor]

Originally Posted by Crono

A "real" Graal server has no content, it's just pking/spar/chat. Sure servers forced themselves to have quests but I never considered that a part of gameplay. More of an obstacle. Despite what people say, quests were generally not fun at all and was a chore for new players.

Well I guess I can relate, I used to love just that with the game Rune, it had an awesome combat system (expect for the abusive and overpowered jump swing) like parrying, blocking and you could even throw your weapon.
Graal on the other hand has to me always been about questing and exploring (just like zelda) and I would get extremely bored after a while with a server that just relied on pking/sparring.

[Emera]

I think that the facebook tileset should be used for iClassic. It is much nicer.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Galdor

Well I guess I can relate, I used to love just that with the game Rune, it had an awesome combat system (expect for the abusive and overpowered jump swing) like parrying, blocking and you could even throw your weapon.
Graal on the other hand has to me always been about questing and exploring (just like zelda) and I would get extremely bored after a while with a server that just relied on pking/sparring.

If you like exploring log onto Valikorlia as that server has an almost infinite amount of content. I do it all the time.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

A "real" Graal server has no content, it's just pking/spar/chat. Sure servers forced themselves to have quests but I never considered that a part of gameplay. More of an obstacle. Despite what people say, quests were generally not fun at all and was a chore for new players.

Who's to say what a real Graal experience is when servers are occupying different specific niches?

When it comes to pking/spar/chat these are things offered by virtually every established Graal server that has ever existed. These are part of each server but they are not what makes a server what it is....
Under that logic you might aswell say a real Graal server is a server that allows you to customise your appearance and upload graphics.

I can only really vouch for what I believe is a "Classic" Graal experience, and again I understand that people do have varying ideas on this that depend on what their own experiences were based upon, which is nothing unexpected.
Applying this principle however, it was the questing which set the server apart.
Even throughout the more simplistic times before Tyhm revolutionised Classic it was still predominantly a questing game.

Has anyone ever considered why Graal is called Graal?
Graal is a French derivative of the word Grail, as in Holy Grail.
The main purpose behind the game was to find the 4 Graals and open the Golden Gate..... kindof like Zelda.
You cannot deny the Zelda aspect has attracted many people to this game.

[Crono]

By real I meant the generic default Graal servers we had that made up the majority of the playerlist in the early 2000's (basically up until around 2004).

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

By real I meant the generic default Graal servers we had that made up the majority of the playerlist in the early 2000's (basically up until around 2004).

I think you're confusing the word "real" with "core".
It's true that many of these early servers shared the same core elements under their more basic form compared to what we see today, but this wasn't the result of something intentional. This was largely down to Graal's development capabilities being more limited, and perhaps partly because of Graal being more open for any player to submit their own content.

I also don't believe questing was held in low regard by the majority, many of these servers did implement their own forms of it.

[Crono]

Perhaps I consider "core" to be the "real" Graal. The majority of our gameplay time was spent chatting and pking/sparring with the default system. iClassic provides this experience, to an extent anyway.

If anyone gave a rat's ass about questing Shaded Legends would have been a hit. Instead, despite questing content on a scale higher than anything else provided, it flopped.

[callimuc]

Originally Posted by Emera

I think that the facebook tileset should be used for iClassic. It is much nicer.

I think Stefan & CO just wants people to buy VIP at least once, because its way nicer (tileset, ...). They want to get people on VIP server but kind of fail at it. I don´t think they will add it to the iClassic.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

The majority of our gameplay time was spent chatting and pking/sparring with the default system.

Isn't this how it is on most multiplayer online games, and virtually all Graal servers except with different combat systems?
This is really just the inevitability of end-game or there being no other forms of solid content to occupy yourself.

History shows that as servers increase in numbers, the effects of these core elements sustaining a large playercount wear off.
This isn't purely because of competition though, this is because these forms of gameplay are simply a reflection of community interaction, and what iPhone does show is that playercount attracts playercount.
The exact same effect can be and probably would have been achieved on iPhone regardless of how the default combat system works, and regardless of the amount of solid content at hand.

[Crono]

Have you ever played a server outside of Classic?

Originally Posted by ffcmike

History shows that as servers increase in numbers, the effects of these core elements sustaining a large playercount wear off.

No, history does not show us this. Despite Graal's slow decay UN held onto its playercount and had an active pking and sparring community. Zodiac's core gameplay is the only thing sustaining the server.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

The exact same effect can be and probably would have been achieved on iPhone regardless of how the default combat system works, and regardless of the amount of solid content at hand.

Check out the playercount when the GST starts.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

Have you ever played a server outside of Classic?

What does it matter?
Does not attempting to play elsewhere mean it's unjustifiable for me to use observations of other servers playercounts among writings of those that have played them as evidence for an idea?

Originally Posted by Crono

No, history does not show us this. Despite Graal's slow decay UN held onto its playercount and had an active pking and sparring community.

Are you sure?
UNs population has benefited from the demise of Classic, Delteria, Npulse, aswell as an intake of iPhone refugees, and therefore pretty much has a monopoly over default style combat.
Yet for the last year or 2 it has shown a steady decline in numbers. Granted there are many contributing factors to decline of playercount but I still hear the same complaints of "there's not much to do".

I make no secret of my desire for there to be a Zelda style adventure game, but I can also see how such things as sparring/PKing/events etc are an important piece of the overall puzzle when it comes to one server among many succeeding.

Lets say that eventually Kingdoms, Zodiac and Zone were to move onto iPhone, it would be dangerous for iClassic to take these things for granted and rely upon them solely.
These forms of community interaction will be offered by multiple different servers and it's only a minority who will care about what combat system it is.

Anybody saying "nobody cares about quests" and "I spend all of my time sparring and PKing so that's all what matters" is simply being selfish.

Originally Posted by Crono

Zodiac's core gameplay is the only thing sustaining the server.

This kindof backs up my point, Zodiac is out-competing UN in terms of playercount, and has an entirely different combat system to default. It is a reflection of the community it has built up via its unique aspects.

Check out the playercount when the GST starts.

Check out the playercount after any organised server wide event.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

What does it matter?
Does not attempting to play elsewhere mean it's unjustifiable for me to use observations of other servers playercounts among writings of those that have played them as evidence for an idea?

It causes you to draw false conclusions.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Are you sure?

Yes, I am sure.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

This kindof backs up my point, Zodiac is out-competing UN in terms of playercount, and has an entirely different combat system to default. It is a reflection of the community it has built up via its unique aspects.

There are other factors at work here than just gameplay. Hint: it's not quests.

In the end I think you completely missed the point I was making anyway. My point was that iClassic provides us with that "old" Graal gameplay (call it "core", "real", whatever). Quests are missing but nobody really cares.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Crono

It causes you to draw false conclusions.

Such as what?

Originally Posted by Crono

Yes, I am sure.

If UN has an active sparring and PKing community, then why is its playercount dropping whereas Era and Zodiac's fairly stable?
As bad as observer mode is, it's still better than not being able to save at all, and I can't say I've ever seen a legitimately new player head straight to a spar arena and begin sparring.

I also find a lot of old UN players, or pre-npcserver Classic players that once migrated to UN, logging onto Classic and expressing their discontent towards UN.
From these conversations I think it's clear to see there's a section of older players who wish to be able to spar, but without having to obtain hearts + sword/shield levels, or endure what are to them annoying weapon NPCs.
This is fair enough and even something Classic could possibly implement to an extent, but to then disregard everything else about a server and treat it as irrelevant is incredibly single-minded, you have to think about what will bring players to the server over others aswell as keep them on the server. I think the situation with UN backs this up.

Originally Posted by Crono

In the end I think you completely missed the point I was making anyway. My point was that iClassic provides us with that "old" Graal gameplay (call it "core", "real", whatever). Quests are missing but nobody really cares.

This is where I think you're missing the point that this is something part of any Graal server, but not what makes a Graal server what it is. To the older players who experienced Graal in its more simplistic times this probably works quite well, but I don't think this is much of a novelty to the majority of new iPhone players.

Also there's a lot of iPhone players who are begging for Quests, or infact any type of playable content.

[Emera]

WOW you guys calm down. But really Thor have you never played anything but classic?

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Crono

Have you ever played a server outside of Classic?

Drop the ad hominem.

Originally Posted by Crono

Yes, I am sure.

Respond to his reasoning, not to the hypothetical.

Originally Posted by Crono

In the end I think you completely missed the point I was making anyway. My point was that iClassic provides us with that "old" Graal gameplay (call it "core", "real", whatever).

You really think that you weren't kicking dirt on everyone who has put any effort into PC Classic? It really sounds like it here:

Originally Posted by Crono

[Facebook Graal is] better than Graal on the iPhone and better than Graal on PC if you're looking for a "real Graal" experience.

Yes, I am slightly irked as you can tell, but it reads to me like you were looking to start an argument, and then proceeded to try to discredit Thor, who has been responding in earnest. Sorry for bring this to the 'meta' level.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

You really think that you weren't kicking dirt on everyone who has put any effort into PC Classic? It really sounds like it here:

That's not how I see it one bit. He's saying he enjoys Classic on Facebook and for some reason (as much as you'd like to hide it with your fancy schmancy words) that triggers some emotional response from PC Classic's staff anytime it's said. Perhaps he was referring to Unholy Nation? The only classic-styled server that's on the server list at the moment. The whole world doesn't revolve around you and your fellow staff team, so please, don't flip your lid and act like it is.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Rufus

That's not how I see it one bit. He's saying he enjoys Classic on Facebook and for some reason (as much as you'd like to hide it with your fancy schmancy words) that triggers some emotional response from PC Classic's staff anytime it's said. Perhaps he was referring to Unholy Nation? The only classic-styled server that's on the server list at the moment. The whole world doesn't revolve around you and your fellow staff team, so please, don't flip your lid and act like it is.

Maybe it is my bad here, but it's how I was reading the argument. You can't disagree that there has always been tension between PC Classic's staff and you, Crono, and some others. I just feel that whenever there is this tension and we start talking about it, we tend to try to discredit each other rather than actually get to the root of the problem. That probably includes my post there. And maybe your response.

Who knows.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Rufus

The whole world doesn't revolve around you

I don't share WDs feeling that this was targeted at Classic specifically or that Crono is trying to start an argument, and can hold my hands up and say that I've brought up this discussion on my own initiative, but this is pretty much one of the points I'm trying to make towards Crono's argument style of "what's my opinion is everyone's opinion", when it comes to things like what makes the game what it is or quests.

And for the most part, they are a matter of personal opinion.
There probably will always be a split between those who idealise in core community interaction and those who idealise in solid gameplay. The reason I put forward my suggestion as to one being a part of the game, and another being what makes the game is for the sake of uniformity when branding servers in such a way as "Classic Style", where I do believe there have been some common misconceptions floating about with for a long time.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

Maybe it is my bad here, but it's how I was reading the argument. You can't disagree that there has always been tension between PC Classic's staff and you, Crono, and some others. I just feel that whenever there is this tension and we start talking about it, we tend to try to discredit each other rather than actually get to the root of the problem. That probably includes my post there. And maybe your response.

Who knows.

It has nothing to do with a tension from anyone. Crono didn't mention PC Classic at all in his posts, and if there was supposed to be be a dig in there about PC Classic or its staff I'm sure he would at least reference it. All he's talking about the nature of Classic servers, what PC Graal offers, and what there is on Classic iPhone. The extent of "discrediting" could only be in asking Thor if he'd played a server outside of Classic, but I can see how it'd be relevant considering he's talking about experience. You are being paranoid, and if Classic is amazing as its staff believe it is then there is no need for such insecurities. That is all.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Rufus

It has nothing to do with a tension from anyone.

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be going back-and-forth like this if there was no tension.

Originally Posted by Rufus

All he's talking about the nature of Classic servers, what PC Graal offers, and what there is on Classic iPhone.

Even if I percieved the comment to be more targeted towards PC Classic than it was, it still does at least include PC Classic, and more so than any other server since they are all 'Classic' by name.

Originally Posted by Rufus

You are being paranoid, and if Classic is amazing as its staff believe it is then there is no need for such insecurities. That is all.

Hey, speaking of tension...

Well, as I said, maybe I saw it as more targeted as it was (apparently even Thor thinks so), but this thread isn't the first sort of thread where we are all involved and I feel the discussions are not as productive as they could be.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be going back-and-forth like this if there was no tension.

The reason I replied is because yes, your post annoyed me. You shot in, emotions flying everywhere, like a teenager kissed for the first time. It has nothing to do with you being Classic staff, though I do understand you're just trying to "discredit [me] rather than actually get to the root of [your] problem" in saying stuff like this, lol. Who you might be discrediting me to I do not know; I can't imagine anyone caring.

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

Even if I percieved the comment to be more targeted towards PC Classic than it was, it still does at least include PC Classic, and more so than any other server since they are all 'Classic' by name.

wat?

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

Well, as I said, maybe I saw it as more targeted as it was (apparently even Thor thinks so), but this thread isn't the first sort of thread where we are all involved and I feel the discussions are not as productive as they could be.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Crono likes Classic iPhone and people start "discussing" it. I don't see how any of this is productive, it's wasn't intended to be from the start.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Rufus

The reason I replied is because yes, your post annoyed me. You shot in, emotions flying everywhere, like a teenager kissed for the first time.

Now I think you're reading me wrong here. I was a little annoyed, but I did say why, and I don't think I was particularly unreasonable there.

Originally Posted by Rufus

wat?

Whoops, that was really unclear.

I meant 'Graal on PC' from Crono's comment at least includes PC Classic, although it isn't limited to it. And, considering the other two subjects (Facebook Classic and iPhone Classic) are both 'Classic', it seems the PC Classic is at least somewhat more of a target than other servers. That may not be the case at all, but it makes it really easy to read it that way.

Originally Posted by Rufus

I don't understand what you mean by this. Crono likes Classic iPhone and people start "discussing" it. I don't see how any of this is productive, it's wasn't intended to be from the start.

If someone says a server is good or better than other servers, then the other servers would normally be interested in discussing why. I suppose you could turn this into something non-productive, but I don't see why you would.



Anyways, considering that we have majorly tangented here, if you want to stop I'm fine with that.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I don't understand what you mean by this. Crono likes Classic iPhone and people start "discussing" it. I don't see how any of this is productive, it's wasn't intended to be from the start.

Crono (the author of this thread) began a discussion about Facebook Classic, a couple of people stated their dislike of the Facebook server, to which Crono responded in disagreement, but also felt it was productive to begin discussion on what he feels is a "real" Graal experience.
Therefore I don't see it as unproductive that I've questioned the validity of there being one single real Graal experience, or contributed a different perspective to the nature of the true Classic experience ofwhich he was referring to, which are both also relevant to Facebook Graal.

[jorollychu]

still waiting for android

[NewYorkerNick]

Why can't graal be lyke it wuz?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by NewYorkerNick

Why can't graal be lyke it wuz?

iPhone/Facebook Graal is a lot like Graal used to be, minus the tons of horrible quests that no one liked doing anyways(they were either always buggy, or just sucked... or both). Graal has always heavily relied on community for enjoyment, and it's pretty much what's being provided(more than it ever has had).